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Thread: agency wants a payslip?

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    God/dess audrey_k's Avatar
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    Default agency wants a payslip?

    I just moved to London and found an flat that I love, but after speaking to the agency that is dealing with me signing the contract they have informed me they want a payslip.

    My income since November has been purely working at strip clubs, I quit my vanilla job in September. So obviously I don't have one of those. What would be a possible response/solution?

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    Member Neyubit's Avatar
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    Default Re: agency wants a payslip?

    A few places I've gone to said they would accept bank statements or just any way that I could prove I was depositing money into a bank account on a regular basis.

    Not sure if your place will accept that or not, but it's probably best to just tell them you're self-employed(or whatever you're comfortable telling them) and therefore don't get regular payslips, and ask them what you could show as proof of income instead.

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    Default Re: agency wants a payslip?

    Yeah, that's a good idea. I might also offer to pay a few months rent up front, it's only a six month contract.

    My dad and my stepdad own their own companies so I was thinking of asking him to write me a letter saying I have been doing regular freelance for him (pretty sure my dad would do it if I told him how much I want this apartment, not sure about my stepdad) but that I'm not an employee for so I don't have payslips. I don't really know what else to do if they're set on it.

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    Member Neyubit's Avatar
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    Default Re: agency wants a payslip?

    That sounds like a good plan, I'm sure they'll be flexible since they just want to make sure they don't lease the place to someone who won't be able to afford it.

    Thank goodness for helpful parents, mine offered to be my guarantors on my lease

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    Default Re: agency wants a payslip?

    after speaking to the agency that is dealing with me signing the contract they have informed me they want a payslip.

    ^^^ The reason they are asking to see a CURRENT pay stub is to confirm that you have sufficient present income to be able to afford making the monthly lease payments. Keep in mind that, from a legal / financial standpoint, a lease represents a 'loan' for X months worth of future rent costs from the landlord to the tenant. Thus the landlord is trying to verify that you have sufficient credit / current income to be able to pay back that 'loan'. Short term 'Vacation rental' properties don't require such income verification and credit checks ... but make up for the additional landlord financial 'risk' by charging much higher weekly / monthly rent prices.

    In regard to the lease apartment you have found, tell the landlord / agency that you're self-employed ( by a family business ... official company stationary letter FedEx'd by dad would help ) and show them your HSBC bank statement with a 5 figure balance, as well as a copy of your credit report. How far along are you in setting up banking via a pound denominated UK account at a London HSBC branch ? Probably not since you have yet to establish a 'permanent' UK address. This would carry a lot more weight with the London landlord / agency than a US dollar denominated account at a California HSBC branch ... because in a worst case scenario the London landlord could legally seize money from the London account but not the California account. However, needing a 'permanent' UK address before being able to establish a UK bank account, and also needing a UK bank account before being able to lease a 'permanent' UK address apartment, admittedly leads to a 'Catch 22' situation.


    Thank goodness for helpful parents, mine offered to be my guarantors on my lease
    Unfortunately, this isn't going to help Audrey_k because, like her own money in a California bank account, her parents ( and their money ) also lie beyond the jurisdiction of the laws the London landlord could potentially utilize to collect on such a lease payment guarantee. To a London landlord, former California earnings and/or money sitting in California bank accounts mean little or nothing. They want to see UK based bank accounts, and regular deposits to those UK based bank accounts as quasi-proof of current self-employed income.

    In the worst case ... which may turn out to be THE case given the scarcity of desireable lease properties versus the multitude of potential tenants in London ... you can offer to pay the entire 6 months worth of rent up front if they're really that hung up over your 'credit-worthiness' and 'verifiable' income level. This would totally remove the 'loan' aspect thus should remove all Landlord financial questions / objections... but doing so would also tie up a lot of your cash savings. Thus, depending on how 'healthy' your bank balance is, this may also dry up your 'liquidity' to the point where you'll need to start generating dancing income immediately to meet immediate spending needs. And if you simply don't have enough money available from your own savings to cover 6 months worth of up-front lease payments, you could potentially ask a parent to loan you some extra cash.

    If you don't actually have access to sufficient cash for the worst case scenario of paying the entire 6 months worth of lease payments up front, and if the landlord / agency turns you down on lease approval involving fewer up front payments, to avoid an instant replay with other apartments / landlords who will expect similar 'income verification' and 'credit-worthiness' you'll probably be forced into seeking a 'roommate' scenario where one of your roommates has the necessary UK 'presence' to lease the apartment in their name. This in turn would provide you with an opportunity to establish a 'permanent' UK address, thus a pound denominated UK bank account, to also establish yourself at a London club, thus establish several months worth of history of regular bank deposits to that UK bank account as quasi-proof of income, which can then be used to secure your own apartment lease a few months down the road. Unfortunately, living in a 'roommate' situation brings up a whole bunch of new issues ... with the most important being your exotic dancing activities / 'security' of any money or expensive assets left in the apartment while you are working etc.

    It's also possible that you can locate a suitable rental unit being offered by 'mom and pop' private owners without the benefit of a rental agency ... who probably won't be such sticklers in regard to income verification. However, in a city like London, where rental properties are in high demand and where agencies prevail, this may be difficult or impossible. If nothing else, this will require a ton of 'leg work' on your part chasing down local newspaper listings, local web offerings etc. IMHO between the time required to do this 'leg work', the extra cost of 'temporary' short term accomodations while doing the 'leg work', and the low probability that you'll actually be able to locate a suitable apartment in a suitable location at a suitable rent price with suitably low income verification requirements, this approach simply isn't worth the time and effort.

    As you have pointed out in other threads, finding a decent rental in a decent section of your new city at a decent price is no small task ... and continuing to rent 'temporary' quarters is costing you a ton of money ... so this apartment is worth 'fighting for'. Also the family business fairy tale will serve well to deflect awkward questions.

    And for the benefit of other Dollar Den readers, the 'credit worthiness' and 'verifiable' income hurdles in regard to obtaining 'loan' approval for an apartment lease certainly aren't unique to the UK ! In today's 'new normal' the corporate landlords in virtually every 'western' country are going to require this. And the same is true regarding other forms of loans, i.e. auto loans, mortgage loans etc.
    Last edited by Melonie; 03-29-2014 at 09:07 AM.

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    Default Re: agency wants a payslip?

    Exactly, can't get a UK pound bank account without a flat, but it's difficult to get a flat without a bank account! My stepdad very kindly offered to write me a letter saying I was hired in March to create/edit content for his clients and is going to back it up with a payroll deposit to my bank. I'm hoping with that and my bank statement, and an offer to pay more up front it'll be enough to get me my flat.

    It's hard enough to find a nice, reasonably priced flat in London, but when you add in the extra challenge of finding one with suitable roommates... well, I feel like this is the holy grail of London flats! But unfortunately paying the deposit/6 months rent would require me coming up with over $12,000, which I just don't have this moment after hemorrhaging 3 grand on this vacation rental and, I'm not comfortable having zero dollars in the bank anyway! I'll let you guys know how it goes, thanks for the advice!

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    Default Re: agency wants a payslip?

    The next time my stepdad pisses me off I'm gonna remember this! He's actually designing a whole contract for me and depositing 2gs into my bank account (and giving me 2 months to pay him back since he says he also wants to help me) as a payroll deposit so I can bring them the letter, contract, and proof of deposit... I'm so lucky to have a stepdad like that!

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    Default Re: agency wants a payslip?

    ^^^ agreed ... sounds like you're out of the 'woods' thanks to your step-dad. And this will fly better with the landlord / agent because you don't share the same last name. Perfect timing too since this 'payroll' deposit exactly co-incides with normal end of month payment dates for people who are paid on a regular monthly basis.

    Please keep us posted !

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    Default Re: agency wants a payslip?

    It worked! I signed the lease today. I'm really happy my step dad did that for me though because there's absolutely no way they would have let me sign the lease without it, they were really intense about looking through everything, of course it helped there was 14g in my bank account (I gave them my statement from a month since luckily my March one wasn't available) but without my contract/proof of payment I wouldn't be moving next week!

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    Default Re: agency wants a payslip?

    Quote Originally Posted by audrey_k View Post
    It worked!
    Congrats on everything working out! Hope you love the new place~

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    Default Re: agency wants a payslip?

    Ask your club to write you a letter. They do it all the time!

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    Default Re: agency wants a payslip?

    Glad to hear things worked out. This experience will actually wind up being a 'good' thing in your case, since it will bring you and your step-dad closer together on top of getting you the 'apartment of your dreams' !!!

    However, for other DD readers whose step-dad doesn't own a company, and as such don't have a method of coming up with an official 'straight job' employment letter plus a $2k 'payroll' deposit made to their bank account on one day's notice, this situation would have obviously turned out very differently. For better or worse, income 'verification' / proof of 'employment' is now becoming a very big deal in any situation where 'credit' is involved !!!

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    Featured Member Bootsie's Avatar
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    Default Re: agency wants a payslip?

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie View Post
    For better or worse, income 'verification' / proof of 'employment' is now becoming a very big deal in any situation where 'credit' is involved !!!
    Do you have any ideas for ways that adult industry workers can get around this? I am looking for a flat in the UK at the moment, and having the issue that my vanilla job is about 2/3 of my monthly income (which is enough to live on) but the other 1/3 is camming money. Unfortunately, that money doesn't count in the eyes of letting agents, which sucks because even my worst month would leave me with extra money for their requirements. Would registering a company hand having it pay me as an employee work? Has anyone done this?

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    Default Re: agency wants a payslip?

    Hi bootsie,when I moved into my flat all I had was self employed income so they asked for copies of my last two years tax returns. I am registered as a sole trader. Ofc this depends on whether you are paying tax on your camming earnings and if so for how long. Hope this helps xx

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    Default Re: agency wants a payslip?

    ^^^ Indeed, where the UK, the USA and many other countries are concerned, after the 2008 banking / real estate 'bust' the issue of income verification has become a very big deal with all potential lenders. Prior to that time, self-employed persons were able to simply 'state' their income level and the potential lenders / landlords were allowed to count it as being 'real money'. However, after that point lender / landlords now require 3rd party documentation to prove that self-employed income is 'real money'. The best 3rd party proof of income is the income reported on tax returns. And lenders / landlords like to see at least two years worth of tax returns to prove that the self-employed income is consistent thus repeatable in future years.

    In the UK, the USA, and many other countries, a business which treats workers as 'employees' must also face a whole bunch of additional rules, costs and 'duties' that are related to employee working conditions, tax reporting, employee benefits, etc. To make complying with those extra rules, paying those extra costs, and performing those 'duties' worthwhile, the 'employer' business is going to expect additional things from the 'employee' worker in return ... usually beginning with rigidly scheduled working hours, limited days off work, etc. Registering and operating the type of business which can actually treat workers as 'employees' involves a ton of gov't paperwork, as well as that business being forced to pay the additional costs to provide mandated 'employee' benefits.

    Registering a company alone would not really accomplish anything in the way of producing the 'employee' pay stub proof of income you are seeking ... because the owner of that single person company ( Sole Trader in the UK, Sole Proprietor or single owner LLC in the USA ) still wouldn't be an 'employee' of that company. And registering a company that is capable of treating workers as 'employees' would cost a ton of money for mandatory 'employee' benefits, 'employer' taxes, accounting and gov't paperwork, etc.
    Last edited by Melonie; 04-26-2014 at 07:57 AM.

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    Default Re: agency wants a payslip?

    Definitely bring in your tax returns and show them. Also, when I went in to speak to the agency and gave them my contract, he wanted to see my bank statement-- not just to see how much money I had in the bank but that I was regularly depositing money into my account. I told him I had just been hired so it wouldn't be super helpful, and he let it go-- I think because I had around $15,000 in my account on the statement and they needed me to move in that weekend or they would have been fucked as well and not gotten rent for the month. So, if you can bring in a bank statement that shows you making regular deposits from your camming, you might be able to spin it as being a consultant/independent contractor (not sure what the term is in the UK) and use those deposits as proof of your income. I don't know how camming works exactly, how you get paid- I dance so I just make random giant cash deposits throughout the month which are no good for proving anything, but if you're getting paid by a company you would have more of a case.

    Also, just offer them as much documentation as you can... perhaps a letter from your old landlord stating how you reliably paid your rent every month, tax returns from the last few years, a copy of your credit report (I was surprised he didn't ask me for that, in the USA they've always just run my credit for an apartment), an offer to pay a few months up front, or even the whole thing if you can afford it.

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