I didn't think nicotine itself was that harmful to you, I thought it was all the other crap in cigarettes?





I didn't think nicotine itself was that harmful to you, I thought it was all the other crap in cigarettes?




It simply comes down to the fact researchers have absolutely no clue how the body reacts to some of the e-cig components such as glycerol and battery/coil microparticals when it's inhaled. It could be fine, or there could be severe consequences that show up after 20 years--they just don't know yet. E-cigs are a huge grey area right now because they are relatively new.
I don't doubt that some of the research out there is biased, however I wouldn't be surprised if it was discovered down the road that e-cigarettes have their fair share of 'side effects'.
Last edited by MyButter; 04-30-2014 at 05:15 AM.





Regarding the health aspect - this is really, really simple.
Big tobacco has lost over $2 BILLION - with a "B" - to these things in the firt quarter of 2014 alone, and it's getting bigger by the day. These devices actually WORK, unlike every other smoking-cessation product out there. WHich brings us to...
Big pharma is losing hundreds of millions of dollars on decreased sales of paches, gums, and other products that don't work - and that's not counting the untold millions they've sunk into cessation drugs like Chantix that also totally suck ass (the side effects are so bad most people go back to smoking rather than deal with them).
So, if we're talking losses in the TENS OF BILLIONS OF DOLLARS PER YEAR and CLIMBING, from 2 of the largest political lobby's in the country, both of whom have specialized in making science sat whatever they want it to say to get the result they want for DECADES... Well... WHat to you think is going to happen, LMAO?
SOme crappy fluids back in the begining were being marketed out of China and other places online, and were made with all kinds of crap - up to and including Ethylene Glycol (exrtemely bad, that's what's in antifreeze) instead of Propylene Glycol (totally safe and recognized as such for DECADES by the FDA). Their claims of "no research has been done" is a JOKE. SO may other products go to market with FAR less behind them. WHat that REALLY means, is - "We can't actually come up with a valid way to put this down since everything in them is something we ourselves have marketed as safe in the past or currently in another product, but we REALLY need to find a way to make these things look bad in the press and to the politicians we bought".
So what's in these things? Well - nicotine is dangerous in it's pure form, yes. So - um, put your fluids up and out of reach of kids, just like you do cleaning supplies and nail polish remover. Next... Propylene Glycol. There's a bunch of crap TRYING to make this sound dangerous now. They're really reaching. This stuff is already in hundreds of products and has been forever. Because the name SOUNDS all "chemically", they can try to make it sound bad, but really it's a naturally occurring chemical with know known dangerous properties. Vegetable glycerin - um, yeah. It's vegetable glycerin, enugh said. Sure - inhaling isn't exactly wha it was intended for, but really - it beas inhaling the smoke from burning plant matter no matter how you cut it, LMAO. And then various flavor additives, the VAST majority of which are natural and proven safe if you're buying quality juice. "particulate inhalation" from the parts..? Um - if you live in any reasonably sized city, you inhale 1000x the "foreign particulates" found in these devices every day. Period.
Fear mongering and misinformation from multi-billion dollar corporations losing multiple billions of dollars. As soon as they find a way to take over the industry, buy out the little guys, and make THEIR money on these, the media hype will fade away, and suddenly there will be tons of research proving how amazing and beneficial these devices are.
Is there really even a question here?




*facepalm*
How are research studies admitting they have no fucking clue what certain e-cigarette byproducts do to the human body over an extended period of time "fear mongering"?
They are straight up admitting that they don't know. Therefore, wouldn't it presumptuous for them to state "E-Cigarettes are healthier than Cigarettes" when they have no hard evidence to back that claim? Especially given cigarettes themselves take a while to cause things like cancer, emphysema, gum disease, etc. Comparatively, e-cigs haven't been in existence long enough to determine whether they do or don't cause any problems.
I can't believe I'm seriously the only one who doesn't perceive this to be some giant conspiracy theory
Im totally pro e-cigarettes. Is it an alternative to smoking? Hell yeah. Is it a healthy alternative to smoking? I seriously doubt it-- I'm still inhaling a bunch of crap into my lungs.
Last edited by MyButter; 04-30-2014 at 10:25 AM.



I agree with AJ.
The government WANTS you to smoke cigarettes. I'm convinced they pretty much want you to die considering their huge population problem, they want your money, they take your money for tax, your money will then go to insurance and medical bills, and it's a reoccurring cycle.
I don't believe it's as bad as an actual cigarette. But who knows, maybe it is. I'm sure we'll find out in twenty years.
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I wouldn't say they want anyone dying, and we don't have an overpopulation problem. But to say "oh snap, we need to regulate the fuck outta these things because WE DON'T KNOW"... Um... WHy aren't ALL products regulated to death until "proven safe"? That's insane. Not a single prescription drug out there would pass this litmus test. And banning them in public places?!!?!?!! ARE YOU KIDDING ME??! The "second hand" vapor is hilarious as a concept, much less a reality, LMAO. I get a splitting headache from just WALKING PAST a nail salon, and they're going to say I can't vape in public? It's a joke.
Agreed, but unlike a nail salon where you have a choice to shop online or go to another store when you are vaping in public the only choice someone has is to leave the place where you both are.
Don't get me wrong, I am a vaper myself. I love my e-cigs but I also have friends that are SUPER sensitive to chemicals so I understand their point of view that the person who wants to vape should be the one to leave the area because they are changing the air quality of that environment.




^ Right! I was under the assumption that these bans were in effect as a courtesy to non-smokers. I mean, I definitely could be wrong but that angle makes sense to me.





I just thought it was interesting from the article that was posted that they had to sure the FDA to get the product through... the very fact of that shows how much power cigarette companies have over the FDA, cause god knows they have let some pretty shitty products come through!
I've never smoked e-cigs in the US, but they're pretty relaxed about it here. I smoked in a taxi when I was drunk and he didn't say anything, normally I wouldn't be that bold, but they are a bit more tolerant about smoking in general here.





when i look at the back of my ecig ingredients, its water, food grade propylene glycol, glycerin, and a small amount of nicotine. there's no way that's as bad for you as all the shit they put on cigarettes. even the organic cigs, you're inhaling carbon monoxide. i also think they are pissed that so many smokers have quit buying real cigs..they are up to 10 bucks a pack where i am. i was a pack a day, just by losing me to the Ecig they've lost out on a lot of yearly money!





Oh C'mon - you're missing my point, lol.
The "ingrediaents" in my "secondhand" vapor have already been deemed harmless by the FDA. You are exposed to MUCH, MUCH worse everywhere you go in any major city. So what's being done about THAT? I don't have to go INTO a nail salon to be exposed to those chemicals; I just have to be ANYWHERE IN THE MALL as there are 3 of them in every wing. Epoxy fumes, Acetone, and God knows what else. Where are the cries to ban those, seeing as every kid and every shopper is exposed to them every time they walk by - and in FAR larger doses than the WATER VAPOR coming from me exhaling vape. And that's ONE example. I could work out another dozen off the top of my head if you'd like?
Here we have a product that is CLEARLY beneficial to the health of society, but because it's distantly related to smoking it's coming under scrutiny reserved for FAR more dangerous things. If the big corporations were making money off it instead of losing billions, THIS WOULDN'T BE THE CASE. I don't know how anyone is even arguing this, LMAO. "These bans are in place as a courtesy to non-smokers" - um - VAPING ISN'T SMOKING. There's no correlation there. None. Pass a ban on vehicle exhaust anywhere there are pedestrians present - SO MUCH MORE ON POINT. How about a ban on burning incense in public places? How about banning CAMPFIRES, or bonfires at the beach, or burning leaves in your yard? Because the "second hand" smke from those is FAR more "dangerous" than vaping, and released in THOUSANDS of times the volume.




Dude, I already claimed it was *my* assumption based off of 1) my non-smoker friends can literally smell the flavors in my exhaled vape one room away. Im sure, like anything, there's probably some flavor combos that are headache inducing. 2) non-smokers don't realize what vaping is like 95 percent of the time--so to keep them from having random Keneption fits due to their own ignorance, it kinda makes sense to me that they would want US to put our e-cigs away in public.
I actually read a theory a long while back that would make you happy. It stated (something along the lines) that the entire reason that e-cigs were banned inside of airplanes was because they didn't want to be in an eternal cycle of explaining that vape wasn't smoke to non-smokers. Eh? *jokingly elbows ya*
Al in all, *I think* these bans are being put forth to appease the non smoking masses. I agree with you in that there is crap that is probably far worse than 'secondhand vape' that we are exposed to daily. But I feel like because people are generally so unfamiliar with e-cigs they freak out and come to all sorts of ridiculous conclusions on their own. Are there alot of e-cig smokers in Vegas? Maybe you don't constantly get all of the questions, or glares, or snide comments about your e-cig being a "crack pipe"--hell, one of the e-stores I order from gives you a stack of cards with each order explaining what e-cigs and vape is (I'm assuming) to hand out to these people. So I can understand why e-cigs are being treated like cigarettes. Is it fair? No way.
On an unrelated note. Why am I so addicted to the 0 percent e-liquid? That's really what makes me go "hmmm".
Last edited by MyButter; 05-08-2014 at 06:14 AM.





In that light, we can agree.
I *do* see the money behind the movement though; it's undeniable. Mark my words - as soon as "regulations" are put in place (essentially making it so only large corporations can even afford to distribute the damned things), two things will happen - 1 - they will get less healthy (although that's not what we'll be told) as additives are added, and 2 - all the furor will die down and people will be told ad naseum how safe and harmless they are.
In this, there is a point we still disagree on - if someone complains about my vape, I won't put it away. I laugh at them. I actually had a woman on Freemont Street last week walk through my vapor cloud and start a (obviously grossly exaggerated) coughing fit. She proceeded to make a big scene about how my smoke made her and started to lecture me about smoking in public and how dare I endanger her she's allergic to cigarette smoke and blah blah - mind you, she did all this before even turning to look at me. She looks around at me mid sentence and sees me standing there, hitting my vape pen and laughing at her. I proceeded to blow a MASSIVE cloud right at her and her husband and ask if she was allergic to water vapor. ANyone with a functioning brain can immediately tell it isn't smoke under those circumstances. She turned BEET red and started to sputter and I said I was glad to see her coughing fit was over and I hoped she felt better. Her husband just looked at his shoes and was clearly the most embarrassed man in the history of downtown Las Vegas. I just stood there staring at her ntil she turned away.
That story is, to me, indicative of the whole anti-e-cig movement. Ignorant morons causing a scene out of habit. And I *love* calling them out on it, because they're full of fucking shit. I wish I could tell you that that was an isolated case but it really isn't. I can't tell you w often people in casinos will start to rip into me about my "smoke" only to look embarrassed and walk away when they realize - AFTER reacting to it as if it was cigarette smoke - that it isn't. This is a regular occurrence.
I can respect that you will put your vape away for people - that's very considerate of you. But cause someone a headache or a coughing fit?! Even *if* there are ingredients in the vapor that could cause a reaction, there's no way in hell they're concentrated enough in the secondhand vapor to cause a reaction. MAYBE to the person inhaling it DIRECTLY - MAYBE, and over a period of time. POSSIBLY - outer limits of reasonable here - in a small enclosed space with someone vaping a LOT. POSSIBLY.
I can tell you this: Not one person, upon knowing what it was, has EVER reacted physically to it. Not once. Every single negative reaction has been from people assuming it was "smoke" and acting - and I do mean ACTING, LMAO - accordingly.
Also note - as a smoker, I was *very* considerate. I always tried to blow smoke up and away from anyone, even smokers, and if anyone was bothered by it I would put it out or relocate, even go outside. I'm not an asshole just to be an asshole until you give me a reason.





I have to say that I actually PREFER the e-cigs now over regular cigarettes... I never thought this would happen to me, but regular cigs just feel sort of dirty and heavy and gross now! I'm down to like 2 cigarettes a day!
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