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Thread: Quotes needed for article: Cam performer concerns

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    Default Quotes needed for article: Cam performer concerns

    Hi everyone,

    I'm seeking quotes for an article I am writing about cam performer concerns. Much has been written about porn performer concerns - piracy, STDs, condoms, etc. Not much is written for the mass market about cam performer concerns.

    Here is my blog:



    The audience is mass market - people who are interested in reading about sex in America, but who are not performers.

    If you have any personal stories or quotes you would like to share about concerns that we cam performers face that you would like to share with the general public, please post them in this thread! Thanks!

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    Veteran Member smaddy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Quotes needed for article: Cam performer concerns

    I would totally do an interview with you as long as you put a link back to my blog !

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    Default Re: Quotes needed for article: Cam performer concerns

    ^ Same!
    Quote Originally Posted by Procrasturbator View Post
    Pussy is truly the great uniter.

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    Default Re: Quotes needed for article: Cam performer concerns

    I would, as well!






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    Default Re: Quotes needed for article: Cam performer concerns

    Though I'd prefer to remain anonymous, my main concern is the never ending pimp mentality that has been going on far too long in the porn industry. This has to stop. Though webcamming gives us performers more freedom, we are still being nickel and dimed by a lot of the bigger webcam sites. For years big porn producers and distributors pay (and still do) their performers for one scene, with no royalties. Big box sites will only allow us to work for them if we agree to 29-50% with the average site paying around 35%. Not only do they get to keep a higher percentage, they are allowed to distribute our images, live feed, and even go as far as recording our sessions to put up on FREE tube sites and paid membership sites. We do not get a percentage of those membership site sales, we don't get a choice to not be recorded, and we definitely do not have protection against our videos and images being leaked.

    Why is okay for big sites to bank off of our pussies, but they make it hard for us to bank off of our own? Doesn't a pimp do that? Most of our customers don't realize that most of us get 1/3 of the dollar amount we ask per minute. Some models struggle to pay rent yet site owners are making millions off of us. Some will argue that "That's just the way it is, or it's what we signed up for." but it still doesn't make it right.

    Until we as sex workers stand up for fair rights we're going to continue to get fucked over when it comes to things of this nature. Of course no one cares about sex workers in the least so this will probably never be made right. Also, too many webcammodels need to eat so they'd prefer to remain quiet and accept the small percent they make than riot and get fired. I understand this mentality, but I often wonder what would've become of us women if we didn't stand up for our rights during the Women's Suffrage in the 1920's and the American Feminist Movement of the 60's. I feel that a lot of us are just afraid. Afraid of exposure, judgement, and the bigger sites winning.

    There's also still a double standard in our industry. A lot of women in our industry won't be able to get hired at some conventional jobs because of what we do. Some of us even go as far as disguising our true image so that in the future we can go back to vanilla work if need be. We are called whores and homewreckers but no one ever discuses the fact that men still charge their cards for our services. Why is it okay for a virtual sex worker to face public humiliation, but no one else? Why is it wrong for a cammodel to use her sex to feed and cloth herself and her family; but the man paying for it can hide behind his computer, kiss his wife, and read his children bedtime stories minutes after blowing his wad to a webcam model? This same man is often found judging sex workers, preaching at the pulpit and or bible thumping. It's the greed and hypocrisy that upsets me the most in my industry. People would be shocked to find how many men in power, and men in general use our services. I often wonder what people would think if a black book exposing names and credit card numbers went viral. Lucky for them they can cry chargeback to cover their own asses.
    Last edited by kortneykay; 05-05-2014 at 01:19 PM.




    Believe In Your Brand




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    Default Re: Quotes needed for article: Cam performer concerns

    Amazing post Kortney, soo well said, the hypocrisy and greediness, omg!

    I wish to add that there is not much sex workers-cam performers can do regarding their (our) rights, it is what it is, same like the banks cam sites take advantage of their powers, they have a contract, u either sign it or u cant work, when dealing with ur employees face to face is one thing but when asking for ur rights from the other side of the computer or other side of the world eventually? They know these things, they aware how things work, they shove us down the throat the terms & conditions and all we can do is swallow it or spit it out.

    If u come out & try to ask for rights u face humiliation, shame & people will laugh at you, not taking u serious. A riot will only be possible when for example it takes place at a physical work place but studios & independent cam workers are scattered all over the place, is impossible to go for a strike in these conditions.

    Not sure if u know Ciciolina, the famous italian porn actress, she was in the Parliament - Radical Party in Italy some years ago, now she asks for a pension/benefits for the time she served in their Parliament there, italians laugh about her u know saying 'what she wants? pension? she was a porn actress, bleah". Go figure.
    Last edited by AliceFun; 05-05-2014 at 02:25 AM.

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    Default Re: Quotes needed for article: Cam performer concerns

    My concerns? Geoblocking that actually works regardless of what IP addy they use. ( or whatever techy stuff)
    That if they start going after the porn performers and sex workers that they equally go after the people patronizing them- no matter what the person's status. We work because they pay us. We exist because they can't help themselves. We don't work in a vacuum.
    The other side of that spectrum is maybe if vanilla jobs didn't suck so badly with piss poor pay for working the load of 3 or more people, closing then opening, watching people that suck getting promoted because of who they know, waiting a year for a slap in the face 10 cents raise or whoopdedoo 25 cents. I could go on and on.
    That sex work gets treated just like every other JOB. We pay taxes. We deal with a helluva lot of stigmatism. We're not kicking back getting HUD housing and food stamps and smoking dope.( ok some of us are smoking)
    That cammodels stop giving themselves away for free. Porn is an addition that should be well paid for because of the stigma attached to it.
    That young guys just exploring their sexuality are finding porn out there with guys cumming on chicks faces, guys shoving their cocks down "bitches" throats til they gag on it, gang bangs that look like forceful rape- with no disclaimer that this is just a fetish for angry men and not something you should try with most women.
    I am very concerned that every lady is doing it because it's her choice. Not because she's getting pimped into it.
    And I guess finally piracy is a concern.

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    Default Re: Quotes needed for article: Cam performer concerns

    Hi Ruby,

    I'd be interested in doing this under my camming name

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    Default Re: Quotes needed for article: Cam performer concerns

    Quote Originally Posted by kortneykay View Post
    There's also still a double standard in our industry. A lot of women in our industry won't be able to get hired at some conventional jobs because of what we do. Some of us even go as far as disguising our true image so that in the future we can go back to vanilla work if need be. We are called whores and homewreckers but no one ever discuses the fact that men still charge their cards for our services. Why is it okay for a virtual sex worker to face public humiliation, but no one else? Why is it wrong for a cammodel to use her sex to feed and cloth herself and her family; but the man paying for it can hide behind his computer, kiss his wife, and read his children bedtime stories minutes after blowing his wad to a webcam model? This same man is often found judging sex workers, preaching at the pulpit and or bible thumping. It's the greed and hypocrisy that upsets me the most in my industry. People would be shocked to find how many men in power, and men in general use our services. I often wonder what people would think if a black book exposing names and credit card numbers went viral. Lucky for them they can cry chargeback to cover their own asses.
    THIS. I think I love you bb!

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    Default Re: Quotes needed for article: Cam performer concerns

    #1 future concern for camgirls ...

    widespread availability of facial recognition software, in conjunction with webcam screen-caps finding their way to all sorts of different websites ( tube sites, upload sites etc. ), is likely to result in future potential 'straight job' employers, friends & family, webcam customers, etc. quickly and easily discovering a camgirl's real name and address + 'adult' industry work history.

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    Default Re: Quotes needed for article: Cam performer concerns

    I nominate KortneyKay for you to interview. She is fucking brilliant.





    Quote Originally Posted by Miss_Red View Post
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    Default Re: Quotes needed for article: Cam performer concerns

    Quote Originally Posted by kortneykay View Post
    Though I'd prefer to remain anonymous, my main concern is the never ending pimp mentality that has been going on far too long in the porn industry. This has to stop. Though webcamming gives us performers more freedom, we are still being nickel and dimed by a lot of the bigger webcam sites. For years big porn producers and distributors pay (and still do) their performers for one scene, with no royalties. Big box sites will only allow us to work for them if we agree to 29-50% with the average site paying around 35%. Not only do they get to keep a higher percentage, they are allowed to distribute our images, live feed, and even go as far as recording our sessions to put up on FREE tube sites and paid membership sites. We do not get a percentage of those membership site sales, we don't get a choice to not be recorded, and we definitely do not have protection against our videos and images being leaked.

    Why is okay for big sites to bank off of our pussies, but they make it hard for us to bank off of our own? Doesn't a pimp do that? Most of our customers don't realize that most of us get 1/3 of the dollar amount we ask per minute. Some models struggle to pay rent yet site owners are making millions off of us. Some will argue that "That's just the way it is, or it's what we signed up for." but it still doesn't make it right.

    Until we as sex workers stand up for fair rights we're going to continue to get fucked over when it comes to things of this nature. Of course no one cares about sex workers in the least so this will probably never be made right. Also, too many webcammodels need to eat so they'd prefer to remain quiet and accept the small percent they make than riot and get fired. I understand this mentality, but I often wonder what would've become of us women if we didn't stand up for our rights during the Women's Suffrage in the 1920's and the American Feminist Movement of the 60's. I feel that a lot of us are just afraid. Afraid of exposure, judgement, and the bigger sites winning.

    There's also still a double standard in our industry. A lot of women in our industry won't be able to get hired at some conventional jobs because of what we do. Some of us even go as far as disguising our true image so that in the future we can go back to vanilla work if need be. We are called whores and homewreckers but no one ever discuses the fact that men still charge their cards for our services. Why is it okay for a virtual sex worker to face public humiliation, but no one else? Why is it wrong for a cammodel to use her sex to feed and cloth herself and her family; but the man paying for it can hide behind his computer, kiss his wife, and read his children bedtime stories minutes after blowing his wad to a webcam model? This same man is often found judging sex workers, preaching at the pulpit and or bible thumping. It's the greed and hypocrisy that upsets me the most in my industry. People would be shocked to find how many men in power, and men in general use our services. I often wonder what people would think if a black book exposing names and credit card numbers went viral. Lucky for them they can cry chargeback to cover their own asses.
    I actually think a 50/50 split MFC is awesome considering they eat the charge backs instead of passing them onto US... The amount of charge backs is way bigger than you think.

    Then take into consideration how much it cost to get traffic, how much they pay out to affiliates to get traffic is no chump change.

    Bandwidth cost money.

    They also have employees on the back end for tech & such to pay out too.

    It isn't like the 50% they make is pure profit.

    Ya'll have no idea the cost of getting traffic. Bitch all you want about SM only paying us out 35% but for the most part their traffic converts into sales. So they on the back is doing their job WELL! Amazingly enough if you want to bring in traffic yourself, you can with them. Promote using your cam model like & get the extra 40% more when you make money off of that customer & 20% when he spends with others. A good 20% of my SM check is from those 20% sales every week & building.

    SM NEVER ever charges us a Charge back they eat that cost.

    Being good in business is also consider what the company you work for does for you. MFC & SM earn their percentages. If you don't like it, then go completely independent & do all the marketing & getting charge backs yourself. How delusional to think these companies are recording your feed making dvds & making money off of it. DVDs don't sell anymore.

    Your pussy doesn't have to be worn out for these big box companies... You can do it all yourself.

    Sam

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    Default Re: Quotes needed for article: Cam performer concerns

    Here are a couple concerns that I think might be of interest to the "civilian" population:

    1) Inaccurate publicity is hurting our business (please think about this one when you write your article).

    There have been an increasing number of TV shows, documentaries, and articles about the webcam modeling industry lately, and most of us agree that the majority of them portray it very inaccurately. They tend to focus on the extremes of the industry - the very attractive women who earn very well for doing things that most people don't consider very pornographic. They show women making $400 in an hour for dancing around in lingerie, playing Xbox, or stomping on eggs. The public sees these things and assumes that we are just having fun for a few hours a week and making astronomical amounts of money for it.

    That isn't how this job is for most of us. It's true that some of us make very good money, and some of us make very good money on occasion, but most of us work quite a bit and have annual earnings that are comparable to upper-middle-class American workers, if not quite a bit less. If you want to see examples of the low end of the earnings spectrum, please read the "Camming Sucks" thread, where you can find plenty of stories about working long hours for less than minimum wage.

    Unfortunately, the inaccurate press we have been getting lately has had a couple of damaging effects. First of all, it has encouraged our customers to believe that we are earning hundreds of dollars per hour. This impression has led them to believe, even more so than previously, that webcam models are overpriced and greedy. They wonder why we need to charge them such high rates when we are supposedly making so much money so easily. While many customers are still happy to pay our asking rates, we are pressured by other viewers to charge less. At a bare minimum, it makes our working experience less pleasant, and in some cases it is costing us income.

    The second effect of the publicity is that a large number of new performers are entering the profession with wildly inaccurate expectations. The influx is troubling on a number of levels. Many of these new performers are young women who are dazzled by the potential income. They haven't researched the requirements to be a successful webcam model, and more importantly, they haven't researched or thought heavily about the risks. As a webcam model, no matter what precautions you take, there is a reasonable possibility that your family, friends, significant other, or others in your community will find out what you are doing. Moreover, any US model that earns more than $600 per year is reported to the IRS via 1099. This means that there is an official record that you worked as a cam model, and interested parties can get that information should they choose. Thus, your cam modeling history can appear on a detailed background check or credit check. This profession carries a stigma, even if your only activity as a model was stomping on eggs. Many new models haven't considered how this stigma can follow them for the rest of their lives and affect their career, reputation, and relationships.

    The flood of new models also has negative implications for more established models. Many of the new models are young, thin, conventionally attractive women, who believe they can be successful as a webcam model based purely on their appearance. They've been led to believe that modeling requires very little effort and minimal pornographic activity, and that customers inexplicably give attractive women large sums of money for no particular reason other than "being hot." Truthfully, while a nice appearance is helpful in this business, it's absolutely no guarantee of any form of success. Regardless of how beautiful a model is, very few customers will repeatedly spend large sums of money just to look at the same attractive woman, or to see her do the same thing she did yesterday. In reality, the strongest and sexiest asset of any webcam model is her mind. The models that consistently have the highest earnings all demonstrate professionalism, an entrepreneurial mindset, and a strong sense of sexual creativity. They spend a large amount of time behind the scenes handling basic business duties, public relations via social networking, research to improve their performances, maintaining their appearance, etc. When she is online, a successful model will be able to subtly sell her services to unconvinced customers, cater to a variety of customers with different fantasies, and keep regular clients interested with fresh twists. She does all this while maintaining her distinctive allure, despite rude treatment, unsavory requests, boredom, and any number of personal discomforts and distractions. Not every woman is willing or able to do this job well. When many new models sign up with the wrong attitudes and expectations, some adapt and become successful, but many spend a period of time doing a poor job, before giving up and leaving the industry. These would-be-models undermine the webcam modeling industry as a whole, because they lead customers to believe that in general the product we are offering is simply not worth the time or money. Furthermore, as these ladies find they are not making the money they expected, they attempt to increase their earnings by "undercutting the competition" and lowering their rates. In turn, this creates a customer base that expects all webcam performers to charge similar low rates.

    To be continued...
    Last edited by Magical_Hoohah; 05-06-2014 at 03:38 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by temptingmodel
    "dont worry, its slow for other models today"
    I'm not other models, its not slow.

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    Featured Member Magical_Hoohah's Avatar
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    Default Re: Quotes needed for article: Cam performer concerns

    2) Almost everyone thinks of webcam modeling as a variation of porn.

    It's a logical conclusion. Like porn, our product is delivered to the customer via the internet. They can see and hear us, but can't touch us or materially participate in the action (there are a few teledildonic exceptions, but they are quite rare). They customer is responsible for providing the physical sensations to himself, while we stimulate their imaginations. Most customers, webcam models, and the public think of it as an extension of pre-filmed porn.

    However, webcam models are probably more closely "related" to call girls, pro-Dommes, pro-subs, and other in-person sex workers. Much like an in-person sex worker, the services that we offer are live in real time and are interactive. We interact with customers and build a fantasy using input from our own imaginations as well as the customers'. We try to simulate the physical acts that would occur in person and give the customer the sense that he is actually experiencing his fantasy in person with the model. We are essentially providing the exact same services as an in-person sex worker, except that we use the internet and technology to bridge the physical distance between model and customer. As a nonsexual comparison, talking to your parents over the phone is using technology to have a conversation that would normally happen in person if they were physically present. It's really just a limited version of talking to your parents around the dinner table, so it would be strange to compare your phone conversation to a book on tape. Likewise, webcam modeling and porn aren't quite the same.

    Porn is produced for a mass audience (unless it's a custom clip, which was probably made by a webcam model). It doesn't interact with the viewer, it isn't specific to his fantasy, and it can't react and adjust to his desires to make the experience even better. A porn is the same every time you watch it. You can't get to know the porn actors before watching the film, they certainly don't get to know you, and they won't remember you the next time you watch the video. Porn doesn't remember the last video you watched and adjust the next video to make it new and exciting for you. On the production side, the porn actors don't come back to work on the same porn once the shoot is done, so the time they spend creating one porn film is limited.

    It might seem like it doesn't matter how people classify webcam modeling - more like porn or more like an in-person sex worker. It is important, though, when it comes to money. The internet is overflowing with porn, and the huge majority of it is free. Adults that are currently in their 30s or older probably remember a time when people were expected to pay for porn, but people currently in their early 20s have always lived in a world where nearly infinite porn is available for free. They've come to expect porn to be free, and almost believe that they have a right to free porn. Some people believe in free porn so strongly that they get indignant when porn costs money, and a few of those will "fight the system'' by pirating paid porn and uploading it to free porn sites. On the other hand, I would estimate that a much, much smaller percent of the population believes that the services of a call girl or pro-Domme should be available to the public for free. Most people seem to take it for grated that these are expensive services.

    I understand that webcam models are hesitant to compare themselves to call girls, especially since prostitution is not legal in the US and other countries. When we compare ourselves to porn or porn stars, we distance ourselves from something illegal and potentially dangerous. I suspect that some of us even look down on women that have "real" sex for money. However, if the services of a webcam model are compared primarily to porn, it begs the question of why a webcam model can charge for a product that an increasingly large portion of people expect for free. Considering that many of us charge rates that are comparable to a call girl, I find it worrisome that people, including webcam models, mentally group our services together with free porn.

    EDIT: This isn't intended to put down porn or porn performers. Porn is great stuff! I personally believe that people should still be paying for it. That doesn't change the fact that, by and large, porn has become a free commodity, and I don't think any webcam model wants to see camming go down that road!
    Last edited by Magical_Hoohah; 05-06-2014 at 02:28 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by temptingmodel
    "dont worry, its slow for other models today"
    I'm not other models, its not slow.

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  21. #15
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    Default Re: Quotes needed for article: Cam performer concerns

    Quote Originally Posted by Sam38g View Post
    I actually think a 50/50 split MFC is awesome considering they eat the charge backs instead of passing them onto US... The amount of charge backs is way bigger than you think.

    Then take into consideration how much it cost to get traffic, how much they pay out to affiliates to get traffic is no chump change.

    Bandwidth cost money.

    They also have employees on the back end for tech & such to pay out too.

    It isn't like the 50% they make is pure profit.

    Ya'll have no idea the cost of getting traffic. Bitch all you want about SM only paying us out 35% but for the most part their traffic converts into sales. So they on the back is doing their job WELL! Amazingly enough if you want to bring in traffic yourself, you can with them. Promote using your cam model like & get the extra 40% more when you make money off of that customer & 20% when he spends with others. A good 20% of my SM check is from those 20% sales every week & building.

    SM NEVER ever charges us a Charge back they eat that cost.

    Being good in business is also consider what the company you work for does for you. MFC & SM earn their percentages. If you don't like it, then go completely independent & do all the marketing & getting charge backs yourself. How delusional to think these companies are recording your feed making dvds & making money off of it. DVDs don't sell anymore.

    Your pussy doesn't have to be worn out for these big box companies... You can do it all yourself.

    Sam
    Sam, you might be a porn star who knows her stuff but trust me, you aren't the only one. I may have not graced the covers of magazines and porn covers like you but I still know the ins and outs of business. I'm definitely not delusional and I never said that anyone was making DVD's of us to sell. This isn't 1999 or early 2000's. I said that some of these businesses (SM) are recording our feeds and selling them for membership costs without paying us. You, I and everyone else already know that not to mention TV subscriptions. I'd appreciate it if you didn't speak to me as if I'm some new cammodel who's just here to rant about low pay. KK has been around the block and knows a lot more than you think I do.

    Everything you've stated in reply to my statement is no news to me. I use my CM link frequently and get 20-80% of my sales. I also work several other indy sites and make up to 80%. I also know the cost of traffic as well as the amount of money it takes to run a successful business but I also know that you can run a successful business on 50% (thank you for the MFC reference as proof that you can) of sales as well as even 65%. I never said that 50% was horrible, I said most BBS give an average of 35% which to me (and lots of others) is still shitty pay. With the amount of people who sign up to bigger sites they can afford bandwidth, servers, marketing, chargebacks, domain and hosting, design and programming and everything in between with 35-50% their cut. I also know that without models working their sites, they wouldn't exist. Men don't jerk off to the design do they?

    It has been a proven fact that when you pay contractors/employees more money, you make more money and everyone is happier. Chargebacks aren't new to me either. I've been doing adult industry jobs for 15 years now myself,(free and paid) I'm no spring chicken when it comes to this stuff.

    The OP wanted to know the concerns of how webcam models feel and I and several other models share these same concerns. 35% is a joke and everyone knows it. Of course you can go indy, I'm indy cam as well but I'm speaking on work conditions. Just like in any job, if you don't like it you can walk but it still doesn't make it right or fair. If a normal person hates their job but has to feed their family, starting their own business may not be the right decision for them at this time. I know that SM will not die or perish if they offered 50% or more to their models. Matter of fact, if they did that I can guarantee you they'd make even more money and have even more models signing up. You can argue with me until you're blue in the face but the fact of the matter is 35% is low pay (plus taxes) and everyone knows it. $7.25 is also low pay, yet it's an average hourly base pay for a lot of people. Sure, they can just get up and find another job or work for themselves but it doesn't make the wage fair or right. Affiliates bringing in traffic (I do it myself) usually make 5% LESS than models. I'm sure they'd work just as hard for less than 30%.

    I appreciate what big sites like SM do for us models, but I also know that LOTS of us feel under-appreciated from them. The model customer service is a joke, technical difficulties often result from SM (not us all the time) and I can go on and on. Where's the RESPECT? I also know that SM wouldn't survive if models never showed up as we are the bread and butter and will ALWAYS be.

    I know that I can "walk" and so can every other girl. I work smarter I take all of those cheap sites and combine them to work for my income. I also do lots of other things on the side including indy work and vanilla and adult business. My issue (and a lot of other's too) is that we are still paid a low percentage and we have less control (just like in porn) of our "work" being put out FREE for all to see. Call that "business" but something tells me that if a sex workers were given a fair base pay rate and BBS treated us a LOT better we'd all be very happy. Porn and wecam has always been a lie. From the overhyped documentaries down to the per minute price, goldshow, etc. These men assume we're getting ALL the money and we're mainly getting 1/3 and I'll let that be known to anyone who asks. I refuse to be a sheep and I refuse to make excuses for sites that pay their contractors a low wage.

    Anyway, OP I stand by each and every statement.
    Last edited by kortneykay; 05-08-2014 at 05:54 AM.




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    Default Re: Quotes needed for article: Cam performer concerns

    Wow, thanks everyone for these amazing insights. I will try to contact you all individually via a pm on this site to see how you want to be quoted (what name you want to use, if you want to be anonymous, etc.) Thank you all again.

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