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    Default So I just got off the phone with Chase Mortgage

    So I just got off the phone with a mortgage banker with Chase mortgage the conversation went well and she was super nice. Very informative she asked about how much of a house I am looking to purchase and I told her $150,000 with a 40,000 down payment. But the thing that is worring me is the tax return information. Chase bank does not go over 30% from what you made last year if you are self employed, so if I made $30,000 in last year they wont look at 60,000 this year which would give me more house money .... she said it is considered unreliable if I were to double what I make since its only two years that was her looking at an conventional loan.

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    Default Re: So I just got off the phone with Chase Mortgage

    Chase are major buttholes, they said I don't qualify for a refinance (After filling out a 4 inch thick application) but that I am OK to continue paying the higher monthly amount at 7%...
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    Default Re: So I just got off the phone with Chase Mortgage

    ^ Really? I refinanced my rental property after they wouldn't do it for years because it was a rental. I got back from a work trip and they had sent me a promo thing in the mail saying refinance now at 4.5 percent down from 7. It was one of those quick refi I've done with wells fargo as well. It's like the 3 step refi. You don't pay anything and you don't have to qualify other than having paid your mortgage on time for a few years and have a certain credit rating. I'd call again and see if you qualify for it. It was some thing Obama passed. Wells has always done it but chase never would until like 2 years ago.

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    Default Re: So I just got off the phone with Chase Mortgage

    Chase is the worst of the worse. They will fuck you over and then blame you for bending over.

    Shop around. Do not put in an application with anyone until you know what financing and house you want. Too many pulls on your credit report can cause issues.

    The type of mortgage you qualify for can change with the house you choose as well.
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    Default Re: So I just got off the phone with Chase Mortgage

    unfortunately the new lender 'income verification' requirements and 'mortgage payment % of total income' requirements are something that is increasingly difficult to avoid. Agreed that Chase sucks, but odds are that no 'Prime' mortgage lender is going to let a self-employed person ( dancer or otherwise ) slide by on these new regulatory requirements. They're going to want to see two years worth of past tax returns to establish a 'base line'.

    'Sub-Prime' mortgage lenders are going to be more flexible. But they are also going to try to charge you an extra 2-3% on the interest rate in exchange for that flexibility.

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    Default Re: So I just got off the phone with Chase Mortgage

    I've been self employed for 20 years and have owned 3 homes and done multiple refi and such and never had a problem....

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    Default Re: So I just got off the phone with Chase Mortgage

    I do agree with Melonie the 2 years worth of tax returns is the base line.

    Since 2008 the housing market has changed and continues to change. You can not take experiences that happened before 2008 and think it is the same now.
    The types of mortgages and requirements change yearly based on FHA, VA, USDA, etc standards.
    There is also subprime lending still out there as well.

    The other thing that has changed is the price of houses. You may think you need a loan for 150k but you may find a foreclosure or desperate seller.

    Dont give up hope just give up Chase!
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    Default Re: So I just got off the phone with Chase Mortgage

    Since 2008 the housing market has changed and continues to change. You can not take experiences that happened before 2008 and think it is the same now.
    for better or worse, this is absolutely true and unavoidable. For starters, all 'self-employed' persons are now viewed as presenting an elevated risk by mortgage lenders ... probably due to the very high percentage of 'stated income' loan fraud which was allowed to take place pre-2008, as well as by the recent record high 'failure rate' of small businesses. New regulations require potential lenders to 'verify' current income levels via 3rd party documentation ( i.e. min 2 years worth of previously filed tax returns ). Mortgage underwriters Fannie and Freddie are already up to their necks in ( taxpayer guaranteed ) mortgage loan losses, and are already looking for billions of additional ( taxpayer funded ) 'bailout' money, thus have recently changed their lending rules to avoid taking on additional 'high risk' mortgages. As such, actual lending risk now matters ( again ) !!!

    Additionally, the FDIC has recently classified all 'adult' related businesses as representing a 'high risk' as a category, and the DoJ is following up on this with many banks ( especially Chase ... see Porn Star accounts closed thread ). This is creating pressure on major banks to drop 'adult' industry businesses and individuals as customers as a simple matter of bank policy.

    And to top it off, regulations now require lenders to perform an 'ability to repay' stress test. Thus if your earnings are coming from a dancing or camming career with a comparatively short 'time window' of peak earnings potential ... but you are seeking a 20-30 year mortgage loan ... what can you show the potential 'Prime' mortgage lender as your potential future source of income that will still be high enough to allow you to continue making mortgage payments on time 20 years from now ??? Do you have a college degree and professional credentials to 'fall back on' as a source of continued high income ??? Do you have $100k-200k+ in other 'assets' ( retirement fund, other real estate, stocks & bonds ), which the mortgage lender could potentially go after if you were to default on mortgage payments in the future ??? If not, then your odds of actually getting approved for a 'Prime' home mortgage loan at a comparatively low interest rate are likely to be rather poor.

    Obviously, there is still a large sector of 'Sub-Prime' mortgage lending activity ... a sector which is used to dealing with 'high risk' borrowers. They have much more flexibility in terms of regulations, and the odds are very good that any dancer or camgirl with a decent credit rating plus a decent income history plus a decent sized down payment is going to be approved for a new 'Sub-Prime' mortgage loan. However, this comes at a price i.e. an interest rate that will be 2-3% higher than the interest rate charged for 'Prime' mortgages. 'Sub-Prime' mortgage lenders are far less concerned about a dancer or camgirl defaulting on a 30 year mortgage loan 20 years down the road, because they will have already collected enough extra interest earnings via the elevated interest rate charged to 'cover' resulting future losses.
    Last edited by Melonie; 05-10-2014 at 06:31 PM.

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    Default Re: So I just got off the phone with Chase Mortgage

    I refinanced both my houses on the 3 step programs in the last 2 years....I know the requirements change all the time as I actually own homes and rentals...

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    Default Re: So I just got off the phone with Chase Mortgage

    ^^^ indeed some 'special circumstances' opportunities were available over the last few years. Wells Fargo's 3 step refi program was arguably created as a result of the following ...


    (snip)The refi program is a sham. The true reason that they are doing the 1-2-3 refi program is because they lost all of the original loan documents and can not prove the indebtedness of the borrower. I found this fact out after the refi when they filed the Satisfaction notice on the County's register of deeds site..(snip)


    Also regarding WF in particular ... from

    (snip)Wells Fargo & Co. on Wednesday said it would sell residential-mortgage servicing rights on $39 billion in loans to Ocwen Financial Corp. ***

    Wells's move follows similar moves by other lenders who have been shedding parts of their mortgage businesses. Last year, government-owned auto lender Ally Financial Inc. said its bank had reached a deal to sell a portfolio of mortgage-servicing rights to Ocwen for an estimated $585 million.

    Wells Fargo has been working to limit its exposure to the mortgage market as a refinancing boom that boosted bank profits continues to fizzle. Last week, Wells Fargo--the largest mortgage lender in the U.S.--had profits for mortgage lending drop by 49% from the fourth quarter of 2012 to $1.6 billion. The bank's home-lending originations totaled $50 billion, compared with the $125 billion a year earlier and $80 billion in the previous quarter.(snip)

    the two obvious take-aways are that A. big banks are actively seeking to 'offload' investor owned mortgages in their portfolios because profitability is dropping alarmingly quickly ( i.e. defaults / foreclosures ), and B. big banks are becoming much more selective in regard to actual lending 'risk' ( thus a nearly 3 to 1 decline in mortgage originations vs previous year ) for new loans / refis.


    There have indeed been 'taxpayer guaranteed' special circumstances loan / refi programs available a la HAMP, 'First Time Home Buyers' etc. Mortgage lenders were willing to (re)write mortgages under these programs because the creditworthiness of US taxpayers, as opposed to the creditworthiness of the mortgage applicant, established the actual loan 'risk' at a very low level. Persons who were able to take advantage of these programs made out very well. However, the 'door' of opportunity to get into these programs has already closed, or is rapidly closing.
    Last edited by Melonie; 05-11-2014 at 05:18 AM.

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    Default Re: So I just got off the phone with Chase Mortgage

    ^ That's bullshit they lost documents. I've done the 3 step with them 4 times in the last 11 years I built my home and they had all my prior docs and info. Vamp do you even own homes? I relize you worked in a bank for a while but. Lol.

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    Default Re: So I just got off the phone with Chase Mortgage

    ^ I agree with the rest of the article but them losing docs no...

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    Default Re: So I just got off the phone with Chase Mortgage

    Also want to add. The relator who recently rented my rental for me told me this was complete B.S. Banks are starting to lend like crazy again and the requirements aren't as stringent as say 6 years ago. The banks don't lose out any ways. We have our lovely government to rescue them. They make the mortgage 2 times over on a foreclosure. A lot are almost paid off then they turn around and sell them for more than hat was owed...

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    Default Re: So I just got off the phone with Chase Mortgage

    ^^^ Obviously I can't speak to WF's alleged mortgage documentation problems, or lack thereof. Only WF insiders and the FDIC know for sure, and they're not talking. But it's an indisputable fact that WF is selling off their mortgage 'business' ... undoubtedly a 'pure coincidence' ?

    In regard to banks 'starting to lend like crazy', the mortgage origination volume numbers tend to show exactly the OPPOSITE ... at least for 'Prime' loans.

    from

    (snip)"New mortgage originations fell over 23% month-over-month and a stunning 47% year-to-date according to Black Knight (formerly LPS). As they show in their detailed presentation, with a 65% year-over-year drop, new mortgage originations are at their lowest since their records began and what is perhaps more concerning is prepayment speeds signal further declines are ahead and the ratio of serious deterioration to foreclosure (along with huge numbers of loan mods due to reset) suggest the housing market is anything but recovering fundamentally with the average loan in foreclosure now 2.6 years past due(snip)



    as the chart shows, every type of mortgage originations have declined, with FHA and Ginnie having all but disappeared from the new mortgage scene. However, the most dramatic decline ( volume wise ) is from the GSE's i.e. Fannie and Freddie ... meaning the beginning of the end of gov't guaranteed reimbursements for banks writing new mortgages for 'high risk' borrowers. As a result, actual lending risk now matters ( again ) !!!

    Granted that particular individuals may not have any problem obtaining new mortgage financing ... providing they have excellent credit rating, long term banking relationships, lots of other 'assets', a big down payment, a documented repeatable income, etc. ... as would be the case for the owner of multiple rental properties. However it is likely to be a very different story for a dancer or camgirl with medium credit rating, no long term banking relationships, few if any other 'assets', a marginal down payment, and a sketchy income history involving a type of business which the FDIC has categorically declared to be 'high risk'.
    Last edited by Melonie; 05-11-2014 at 12:45 PM.

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    Default Re: So I just got off the phone with Chase Mortgage

    Quote Originally Posted by Vamp View Post
    Shop around. Do not put in an application with anyone until you know what financing and house you want. Too many pulls on your credit report can cause issues.

    The type of mortgage you qualify for can change with the house you choose as well.
    I'm reviving this thread rather than starting a totally new one.

    Vamp - or anyone, I researched and found this thread with the intention of asking, what do you look for when you shop around for a mortgage? I will literally create an Excel spread sheet with the things I should look for and answer all of those things for each company/bank. What exactly are the best things to compare?

    The situation is buying a home where I will live as my primary residence, but I would also be renting out a couple of rooms as soon as I'm in there and get myself set up.

    About a year ago, I started looking right after my mom's death, but ultimately opted to wait. However, in that time, one mortgage company pulled my credit, saw my tax returns, and was happy with me.
    "Don't piss off a motivated stripper."


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    Default Re: So I just got off the phone with Chase Mortgage

    Possibly irrelevant, but Chase closed my account (bank account, not mortgage) because I could not prove my income was unrelated to the sex industry. That was last fall I believe.

    There were many others, and they didn't give us much warning. I also thing they put me on a nationwide 'watch list' for suspicious banking activity. http://www.dailydot.com/lifestyle/chase-bank-anti-porn/
    "Women have been leading men on to get rich quick since the beginning of time. The system is older than dirt. Don't be a player hater." - me

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    Default Re: So I just got off the phone with Chase Mortgage

    ^You still have a mortgage with Chase though, despite the closure of your account(s) without any notice/warning? When did you get this mortgage with Chase?

    ETA: No, not irrelevant. Thanks for being willing to talk about this.
    "Don't piss off a motivated stripper."


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    Default Re: So I just got off the phone with Chase Mortgage

    Agreed on relevance. See

    The relevant points in regard to this particular thread are ...

    A. The FDIC has officially declared 'adult' businesses and 'adult' industry workers to represent a 'high risk' to US Banks ... along with a host of other industries from online gambling to gun sellers to 'payday' loan companies.

    B. The FDIC in conjunction with the Dep't of Justice is now pressuring US Banks to drop 'adult' businesses and 'adult' industry workers as customers, for the supposed purpose of reducing the Bank's 'loss risk'.

    C. Bank boards of directors are deciding that the potential bank income lost if they throw out 'adult' business and 'adult' industry worker accounts is likely to be far less expensive than the potential DOJ investigation compliance costs, the potential legal fees to fight possible charges brought against the bank for 'money laundering', potential fines, etc.

    Thus, as a self-employed person working in an industry officially classified as being 'high risk', even if you have a very good credit rating, a fully documented income via past years' tax returns, a sizeable down payment available, etc. the 'prime' mortgage lenders may now simply choose not to do business with you on the basis that you happen to work in a particular industry. That essentially leaves two options ... 'subprime' mortgage lenders who will gladly accept the 'high risk' in exchange for charging you 2-3+% higher interest rates than are being charged for 'prime' mortgages approved for non-'high risk' borrowers ... or purchasing the property with 100% cash from a documented source and bypassing the need for a mortgage altogether.


    I also thing they put me on a nationwide 'watch list' for suspicious banking activity.
    Indeed, banks are now required to generate 'suspicious activity reports' on the basis of large cash transactions, a repeating pattern of smaller cash transactions, etc. Vamp can probably provide details. While I'm not aware of the existence of any national 'watch list' in this regard, that would certainly be well within the capabilities of the IRS / DOJ. Also, its entirely possible that any Bank deciding to forcibly close accounts for 'adult' businesses and workers will report that fact to Chex Systems ... making it more difficult for those 'adult' businesses and workers to open new accounts with different banks that also utilize Chex Systems.

    Fortunately, for the moment at least, it appears that Wells Fargo has decided to make an active outreach to such bank-less 'adult' businesses and workers.


    You still have a mortgage with Chase though, despite the closure of your account(s) without any notice/warning
    Unless the mortgage contract included specific provisions to the contrary, Chase doesn't have the legal authority to unilaterally terminate a mortgage contract before it reaches 'maturity'. Same applies to other de-facto contracts with a term limit ( like auto loans or CD's ). But 'demand' deposit savings and checking accounts do not have any term involved ... thus no contract term is being violated if the bank decides to unilaterally close such accounts. Also, the DOJ has taken the position that banks are under no legal obligation to provide such zero term demand accounts, or new contract term accounts, to any customer, as long as the decision to deny such accounts isn't based on race, religion, sex, national origin etc.
    Last edited by Melonie; 09-16-2014 at 09:07 AM.

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    Default Re: So I just got off the phone with Chase Mortgage

    I never held a mortgage with Chase, sorry I wasn't clear.

    And around the time they shut down my account, I noticed a hit on my professional (non sex industry) website, from the office of the DOJ somewhere in Manhattan. Which scared the shit out of me, but nothing ever came of that (as far as I know). I have opened one US bank account since, but it was a subsidiary of a foreign bank, so I don't know if I'm really on a 'list' or not.
    "Women have been leading men on to get rich quick since the beginning of time. The system is older than dirt. Don't be a player hater." - me

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    Default Re: So I just got off the phone with Chase Mortgage

    Quote Originally Posted by LuvlyDancer View Post
    I noticed a hit on my professional (non sex industry) website, from the office of the DOJ somewhere in Manhattan.
    Did you trace the IP?
    "Don't piss off a motivated stripper."


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    Default Re: So I just got off the phone with Chase Mortgage

    Quote Originally Posted by CuriousSeeker View Post
    Did you trace the IP?
    Ya that's how I saw they were looking me up.
    "Women have been leading men on to get rich quick since the beginning of time. The system is older than dirt. Don't be a player hater." - me

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    Default Re: So I just got off the phone with Chase Mortgage

    Chase is a really dumb bank. Them and Bank Of America. They are probably the strictest bank out there in terms of even getting (and keeping) a bank account or credit card even. Their credit card requirements even surpass that of American Express, for example. They aren't worth it. Especially after coming out last year and saying they were closing bank accounts of anyone in or suspected to be in sexwork. That's just gross, and shows they are no longer an open-minded bank.

    That being said, (and no I'm not a home owner) mortgage loans don't differ from car loans other than the amount. Some banks will take you on and some will not. You could do absolutely everything perfect for one bank and get denied (like Chase), whereas another bank will take you for the loan without question.

    Pass on Chase. Their requirements are too strict. Try banks like Capital One that are very open-minded.

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    Default Re: So I just got off the phone with Chase Mortgage

    Quote Originally Posted by CuriousSeeker View Post
    I'm reviving this thread rather than starting a totally new one.

    Vamp - or anyone, I researched and found this thread with the intention of asking, what do you look for when you shop around for a mortgage? I will literally create an Excel spread sheet with the things I should look for and answer all of those things for each company/bank. What exactly are the best things to compare?

    The situation is buying a home where I will live as my primary residence, but I would also be renting out a couple of rooms as soon as I'm in there and get myself set up.

    About a year ago, I started looking right after my mom's death, but ultimately opted to wait. However, in that time, one mortgage company pulled my credit, saw my tax returns, and was happy with me.
    Here is a great list and educational tool on a goverment website, it comes with a printable pdf .... http://www.consumer.ftc.gov/articles...pping-mortgage

    The other question I would add to this list is .... Do you retain the servicing rights to your mortgage? Alot of banks and lenders still sell their mortgages, ie Quick Loans is the worse about this. They finalize your loan and then sell it in six months. Then you have to send your payment to someone else. It can become a huge pain in the ass. If you dont mind that is fine, but it is best to know this up front.

    I would also talk to real estate agents about what mortgage lenders they prefer. Real estate agents have seen it all. They have to deal with the mortgage lenders as much as the borrower.

    Also go to all the review websites that are now available. When people get fucked over they are detailed and post reviews everywhere letting everyone know. The more detail a review gives the more I believe it.
    Nature knows no indecencies; man invents them. ~ Mark Twain


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    Default Re: So I just got off the phone with Chase Mortgage

    Some relevant info here- Chase will freely give out your private info even if they "say" they won't. They did this to my aunt, she has had her mortgage with them since way back when so she never had issues until now.

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