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Thread: offering advice to dancers

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    Default offering advice to dancers

    wanna preface this off saying nobody likes being told how to do their job but do you have custies who try to offer genuine advice to help w sales? And no I'm not talking about "extras" or more contact ect. I'm talking bout the actual sale whether its the approach, the close, the phrase, or w/e.

    The reason I ask is one of my faves always asks after each dance "would you like another?" But if changed to "we should do another" or similar could do more and not to mention transitioning to an upsale. Kinda basic sales 101, harder to turn down a statement than a question.

    What I did was playfully mock her and told her what and how I thought she should say in an non-critical way/tone. So do you have customers give genuine advice to help you out and how would they or you do it?

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    Default Re: offering advice to dancers

    I don't have a lot of customers telling me how to do my job, but I do have many instances where customers tell me how to live my life. Like a couple shifts ago, I was telling a customer who's gotten dances from me a couple times my plan to go to law school once I'm done with my undergrad and he's all "just get your law degree but don't actually practice law. Stay at home and be a trophy wife." I insisted that I actually do want to practice business law, but he kept saying "no, you don't want to actually practice law." OK buddy, let's just go in the VIP so I can take your money (which I did lol). Then there's another guy who's actually a regular of mine who knows way too much about my life and always wants to bring up my ex boyfriend and the fact that I still hangout with him and let him stay at my apartment sometimes. My ex is MY problem - I don't lecture HIM about his failing marriage. He actually text me and apologized and admitted to being way out of line so that made me feel better.
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    Default Re: offering advice to dancers

    I think if a customer tried to give me advice on dancing, I would probably blow him off. I'm stubborn and I don't respond well to criticism at ALL. Especially if it was coming from a guy about my work.

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    Default Re: offering advice to dancers

    Let's flip this around. Let's pretend you are in the banking business and your primary function is home mortgages. Would you be accepting of a random gas station attendant advising you on how to package mortgages faster? Probably not.

    The only advice I will give my ATF's is to go drain the wallets of that new table that just came in as I'm not ready for any dances but I will wait for her to be available.

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    Default Re: offering advice to dancers

    I wouldn't like customers trying to give me advice on how to do my job (the job I've been doing for years now). I'm the dancer, you are the customer. Even if you think your advice would help, keep it to yourself because it doesn't come off as helpful advice, but you being arrogant. Giving a dancer criticism about how to do their job better is one of the quickest ways to irritate us. Besides trying to touch us in ways we don't wanna be touched, and being cheap.

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    Default Re: offering advice to dancers

    I don't ever recall advising a dancer on how to do their job other than telling them that eye contact was important when the girl would avoid that during a dance. As far as real life advice is concerned, I was often asked by girls transitioning back to "civilian" life how they ought to go about doing that and I helped a number of them do that and still do now years after we put the SC world behind us.
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    Default Re: offering advice to dancers

    I'd tell the customer to fuck off.

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    Default Re: offering advice to dancers

    yes. its really obnoxious. i know what i SHOULD be doing to try and get the sale, its getting into the right mindset and having everything flow the right way that's the problem! he's not giving me nuggets of gold that i didn't already know

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    Default Re: offering advice to dancers

    While selling private dances is clearly a sales job it is unlike any other. Trying to transfer "sales 101" tactics to guys who are trying to decide if they should buy another dance from a naked woman or put another $20 in their kid's college fund is a little dodgy at best. The most common thing guys bitch about on the male dominated sites is a girl who is "pushy" or "all about the money". While dancers (and some of the more educated customers on SW) may know that it actually IS all about the money a lot of guys don't really want to admit that when they are "in the moment". Successful dancers learn how to read their customers. That comes with experience. It is not the kind of experience that can be gained by selling widgets. The smartest thing a guy can do who wants to help a dancer earn more money is to spend more money on her and keep his advice to himself.
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    Default Re: offering advice to dancers

    I had a customer telling I should look more extravagant: he kept saying I needed to do my nails, wear some ghetto ass jewerly, ect. Did I mention he didn't spend a dime on me nor in any other dancers that night?





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    Default Re: offering advice to dancers

    The loudest, pushiest 'advise' tends to come from the cheapest customers. Either they get a case of the ass when we refuse their 'suggestions' & cheapen up out of spite, or they just enjoy having a go at whatever it is abt us they claim not to like & were nvr going to spend anyway.

    Bottom line here, don't offer 'advise' until you've actually done our job & applied that advise to a profitable outcome, & even then, you should probably keep it to yourself.

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    Default Re: offering advice to dancers

    As lovelydancer said it's one of the 3 quickest ways to piss off a dancer. The problem is that many customers think that what works for them will work for everyone, and stripping 101 (not sales 101) is that every customer is different. Even something as simple as "make eye contact" does not apply to everyone. I've danced with several customers who either had no interest in making eye contact or would have been too intimidated to do something like that. I had a customer tell me last night "you should act more British. You'd make more money." What he was basically saying is that I should be more docile and compliant and less sassy-- perhaps acting more "British" would have worked with him and it was my fault for reading him wrong, but 99% of my allure is the fact that I'm foreign, so I'm not going to change that for every customer!

    Most of the time it comes off very condescending and to be frank I don't think I've ever had a customer give me advice on my job AND spend a ton of money. Maybe a couple dances, but no VIP or CR. It's the same kind of customers who want to come in and put the strippers down to make themselves feel better. I don't even know why as a customer you would want to give advice, I don't see anything fun or sexy about the conversation and if you're spending money on a dancer obviously you think she's doing a good job or why would you be spending money? My biggest pet peeve is the guys who say "well I don't buy dances but you should go talk to that guy over there." Fuck you, I can tell when someone is eyeballing me, grow some balls and turn me down and be done with it. I've had a couple customers actually get really aggressive with me and say 'why haven't you talked to him? I told you he'd spend money" and when I finally give up and ask them just to get rid of the annoying custy, big surprise, they always say no! I know my market in regards to customers better than you.

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    Default Re: offering advice to dancers

    My question would be, why do you really care? If you obviously know about sales, then very few "sales tricks" are going to work on you anyway, so if she was saying that from the get-go, you'd see through it and it wouldn't change anything. Plus you don't seem to need that "really sell it to me" thing since you already know all the tricks and know what you will or won't get regardless. If she changed her wording on you, it probably wouldn't make a difference. And why do you care how she words anything to other customers? For all you know, she does use a completely different line on other customers with whom she think she can get away with it, but she's labeled you as being someone who needs a less pushy approach.

    My main gripe with customers trying to give me "sales" advice is that it feels like it's just some game to them for their amusement. Like, they're big-shot salesmen who want to "school" me, just so they can make me play out their lessons on the other guys around and feel like they're smarter than me. Or maybe get an ego-boost from being like "Ha ha! I told you!" Whenever you feel the need to give advice that wasn't asked for, remember the saying, "Unsolicited advice is always self-serving."
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    Default Re: offering advice to dancers

    Quote Originally Posted by banished avatar View Post
    So do you have customers give genuine advice to help you out
    ^No, they just give me money .

    It's nice to want to help your favourite dancer out, but I wouldn't mention anything. Every girl is different-some can sell anything to anyone and others aren't good "sales people" or hustlers. Skills like this often come with experience as well.
    “Give a girl the right shoes and she can conquer the world” -Marilyn Monroe

    "True sexiness has many facets-confidence, strength, intelligence, and humor. It isn’t just about trying to look sexy; it’s an art and one becomes skillful in it when she realizes that there are all these conflicting elements that all come together to make something magical"-Dita Von Teese

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    Default Re: offering advice to dancers

    Like everyone else has said......usually guys who give advice are being assholes about it and don't spend a penny.
    I had a guy tell me I needed to start wearing fake eyelashes if I wanted to make money (wtf)
    They've NEVER made a difference in my money. If anything they hurt my money because I can never get them to stay on and end up walking off stage with an eyelash attached to my thigh.

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    Default Re: offering advice to dancers

    After reading some of the comments and thinking about a little more I admit my biggest mistake was giving unsolicited advice, which no matter how "good" the advice is, generally always tends to be the worst/useless advice. (How good/useful can advice be if it isn't followed?) I don't want to delve too deeply into the quality of advice I suggested, other than saying there's generally useful or generally unuseful advice. Key word being general in that it doesn't apply to every situation. I think the consensus is that general useful ones are stay away from time-wasters, don't let someone constantly drain your psyche, etc. But this isn't about the specific advice, moreso how to come across giving advice in a positive light. The easiest is don't. At least unsolicited ones.

    Having said that, there's a difference between doing it as a pushy know-it-all vs positive construction. The original purpose I intended was how to do it more as the latter than the former. In the above example obviously there's a difference between being a pushy ass responding "quit asking me, I'll let you know when I'm done" vs a "I love how you keep asking, but I would love it more if you just kept going" Maybe a cheesy example but the question remains, how or is there a way to give advice in a positive light.

    Quote Originally Posted by GypsyLace View Post
    but a lot of men may find a statement a bit too pushy and might like to feel a lot more in control , so a question could be more appropriate for them. I'm always happy to listen to genuinely helpful advice, but I take it with a pinch of salt ....
    Funny thing is advice is only useful if it's used. Which sounds obvious, but I admit I've had people tell me great advice not use it and only later come to apply it later on down the road. Thing is we constantly get advice we don't use only to use it later but forgotten who was the one who had give it to us.

    Quote Originally Posted by simple(headed?)guy View Post
    Let's flip this around. Let's pretend you are in the banking business and your primary function is home mortgages. Would you be accepting of a random gas station attendant advising you on how to package mortgages faster? Probably not.
    One of my mentors told me that advice is only as good as it is applicable. Personally, I don't care what qualifications the one giving the advice has as long as it applies to my situation. Same thing holds true for anything said here, the advice read is only as good as it applies to your situation.

    Quote Originally Posted by audrey_k View Post
    I don't even know why as a customer you would want to give advice, I don't see anything fun or sexy about the conversation and if you're spending money on a dancer obviously you think she's doing a good job or why would you be spending money?
    It's not about sexy, it's about connection and rapport or at least perceived. I enjoy talking about sales and psychology and if the dancer does too, I like her that much more.


    Quote Originally Posted by Aurora_Sunset View Post
    If she changed her wording on you, it probably wouldn't make a difference. And why do you care how she words anything to other customers? For all you know, she does use a completely different line on other customers with whom she think she can get away with it, but she's labeled you as being someone who needs a less pushy approach.

    Whenever you feel the need to give advice that wasn't asked for, remember the saying, "Unsolicited advice is always self-serving."
    You're right it wouldn't make much of a difference. At least as far as not buying dances and really doesn't change much in the grand scheme of things. But it's the little things that can make me enjoy it that much more. Instead of everything about me, I wanna have things be about us.

    I also agree with your second point. To a further extent all of what we do is self-serving. In this case if what I do serves me and at the same time helps her, that's not a bad thing. In fact I would say it's a win-win situation. I help her out, she makes more money, I'm happy, she's happy. And maybe she enjoys her time with me just a little, tiny bit more even if she doesn't admit it. What's not to like, as long as I'm not an ass or smug about it, which I wouldn't be.

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    Default Re: offering advice to dancers

    Quote Originally Posted by banished avatar View Post
    In the above example obviously there's a difference between being a pushy ass responding "quit asking me, I'll let you know when I'm done" vs a "I love how you keep asking, but I would love it more if you just kept going"
    If you are going to give advice anyway, then I suggest doing it like this. Keep it about you and your preferences for how you'd like your interaction to go. That way, it's not you giving her "Sales 101" advice, but just stating your personal preference for how you'd like her to interact with you. If it's something as simple as asking her not to keep asking for more dances between songs until you say stop, it shouldn't be a problem, because it's not "advice," more-so just "I'd love it if you did this with me." Though... be aware, I'd be wary of any guy who didn't want me to keep track of when songs were ending and beginning, because he could easily be trying to swindle me out of money by claiming that we didn't do as many songs as I claimed/I counted wrong/etc.
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    Default Re: offering advice to dancers

    Quote Originally Posted by banished avatar View Post
    It's not about sexy, it's about connection and rapport or at least perceived. I enjoy talking about sales and psychology and if the dancer does too, I like her that much more.
    Hun, I'll enjoy talking about anything as long as you're paying me. If it gets you off to sit and critic her sales practice, that's fine, just give a tip, cause as everyone has said, it's really annoying.

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    Default Re: offering advice to dancers

    Why do you care how much money dancers make? Some of that money is yours BTW.
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    Default Re: offering advice to dancers

    I never, ever give work or life advice to a dancer. Why? First, she doesn't want to hear it, even if I'm right. Second, because more often than not I don't know as much about the situation as she does, nor do I know what she can handle or what her personal limitations are. I have never sold dances to men, never gotten naked for money in front of them, never had to deal with unwanted sexual advances from grown men, etc., etc. This means that I am in no position to give job advice to the girl who DOES do all of these things for a living.

    It took me a long time to understand this. For example, when I was younger, I would be critical of dancers who did not seem to work the room. But as an example of what I might not know at a given moment, but she does, is that, out of the 5 unoccupied guys in the room at that moment, 2 are waiting on favorites (who will cause her drama if she approaches their customers), 2 are regulars who are always broke, but like to waste time, and the last guy tried to jam his fingers up her ass the last time she sold him a dance. So while I am sitting there giving my oh so sage advice to her about working the place, she is likely sitting there thinking about just how ignorant I am and how she actually wished there was another approachable customer so that she had a reason to move on.

    And that is just one of numerous examples where customers can give what seems, on the surface, to be good advice, but is actually crap advice. Net-net, I have learned over the years that I do not know nearly as much about what is happening around me in a club as she does, so I refrain from giving advice, often even when I am asked for it.

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    Default Re: offering advice to dancers

    Agree with the consensus. You ever go to the gym, and there's this guy at the gym who likes to offer people unsolicited advice? Even if he were always right, he'd be the most hated guy in the gym, and show up in lists of "Things you hate at the gym" as THAT GUY. And he's often not right.

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    Default Re: offering advice to dancers

    I had an ATF years ago who was a very good earner, a great lady and a good friend inside and outside of the club for many years. The only time she ever got mad at me was the one time I suggested that she should work the room instead of sitting at the bar alone waiting for it to come to her. The silent treatment I got for the rest of that afternoon as she went in and out of the Champagne room with a steady flow of regular customers was all I needed to see. We never spoke of it again and I never offered an unsolicited advice to a dancer again. Now, to be fair, I do spend a lot of time with ladies that have been dancing for a long time and we spend a lot of time talking about the clubs they work in, their particular approach and, quiet often, the proclivities of many of their regulars. That being said, commiserating with a gal is not the same thing as telling her how to do her job. I'm often told that I am a good listener and, to be honest, it has served me well over the years when it comes to having a fun afternoon or evening at a strip club.

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    Default Re: offering advice to dancers

    I think of these "aphorisms" whenever the subject of unsolicited advice comes up:

    1) "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink it." To carry this further, it is pointless to lead a horse to water if the horse is not thirsty at the moment. Furthermore, it can be difficult to lead a horse (or any other animal) that doesn't want to be led to water, let alone anywhere else.

    2) Unsolicited advice is akin to stating ones opinion. Which leads to the ism of- "Opinions are like assholes- everyone has one and they stink."
    I'm right 96% of the time. I don't sweat the other 5% .......................

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    Default Re: offering advice to dancers

    Quote Originally Posted by Aurora_Sunset View Post
    Though... be aware, I'd be wary of any guy who didn't want me to keep track of when songs were ending and beginning, because he could easily be trying to swindle me out of money by claiming that we didn't do as many songs as I claimed/I counted wrong/etc.
    MMV. Typically I know exactly how many dances I'm getting before we ever start. With this girl, though I think why I like her more than most is that she's not a great "saleswoman" (though it may be part of the hustle and there's no way of knowing) which makes it seem more genuine for the parts that count. Last time I was with her I bought more dances than I intended and lost count, she probably could have hustled me for me but didn't. At the end of the last song, I asked her how much we did thinking it was 7-8. She simply said 7 and left it at that, but from a sales perspective the correct answer would have been "7 but we can go for 8" since 8 was on my mind.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hopper View Post
    Why do you care how much money dancers make? Some of that money is yours BTW.
    Simple answer. Because I like her. More complex and maybe true or maybe not. If she's making more money here and thus enjoys it more, she'll likely stay at my favorite club longer.

    To everyone else. Thanks for the responses and perspectives.

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    Default Re: offering advice to dancers

    She already knows that you have a sales background, right? If she wants to brush up on her basic sales skills (or just stroke your ego) she will ask you for advice.

    BTW, I would never use Sales 101 techniques on a customer that I know has them memorized. For those guys it usually works much better to just dumb myself down and act cartoon-sexy.

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