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Thread: Legal Matter: Lewd Dancing

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    Default Legal Matter: Lewd Dancing

    I know that in Hawaii you, as a dancer can be arrested for "lewd" dancing, which is also known as a "full friction" dancing. I also know that in south Florida all they do is full friction dancing, so the question is: as a dancer can you theoretically be arrested for it? What is the law in say Broward or Dade county? Anybody knows?

    I don't know where to find the laws that would really explain this to me.

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    Default Re: Legal Matter: Lewd Dancing

    Yes . technically lap dances can be construed as lewd or prostitution in some cases. I went through this in Florida years ago. They usually bust during election time or sometimes they get a hair up their ass and vice comes in and busts. Happens in Dallas, Houston all over. It's the gamble you take working in this industry.

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    Default Re: Legal Matter: Lewd Dancing

    Go directly to your local police station or to the library to start your search for local laws on adult entertainment. That will get you the specifics but as stated above, what a local law permits & how your $$ is actually made may not necessarily line up. Orlando & Daytona (Orange & Volusia counties) are examples of this. If you are that concerned, then moving to an area where the laws & the paying-out are more congruent may be in order.

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    Default Re: Legal Matter: Lewd Dancing

    Thanks ladies! Here's what I have found so far on the Florida legislature site:

    "Any person who knowingly promotes, conducts, performs, or participates in an obscene show, exhibition, or performance by live persons or a live person before an audience is guilty of a misdemeanor of the first degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083.
    “Obscene” means the status of material which:
    (a) The average person, applying contemporary community standards, would find, taken as a whole, appeals to the prurient interest;
    (b) Depicts or describes, in a patently offensive way, sexual conduct as specifically defined herein; and
    (c) Taken as a whole, lacks serious literary, artistic, political, or scientific value."

    So as far as I understand the law contradicts itself-- strip clubs are legal, being nude is legal, but dancing nude is not legal??

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    Default Re: Legal Matter: Lewd Dancing

    its ridiculous. basically, from what i've gathered, if somebody has a hair up their arse, you can get busted and charged. just like when they do a sweep for extras or drugs, they can lump you in with the other girls if they want. like michelle said, thats always the risk when being an exotic dancer ( and one of the many). its just something you need to seriously weight before getting into.

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    Default Re: Legal Matter: Lewd Dancing

    How do you girls like this:
    "It is unlawful: To own, establish, maintain, or operate any place, structure, building, or conveyance for the purpose of lewdness, assignation, or prostitution."

    I get the prostitution thing, but lewdness? Here they are describing lewdness as "any indecent and obscene act" which strip clubs are full of (and they know it) and then saying in another statue that strip clubs are legal?? I do not get it. Am I stupid or something? Why does the law contradict itself so freaking much? How is it even possible?

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    Default Re: Legal Matter: Lewd Dancing

    If this issue is really sticking in your craw (& I can understand why it is, I am pretty paranoid abt this as well) then I would again go directly to a LE official for clarification. These things tend to be deliberately written to be vague & I think that sm1 whose living involves knowing the law(& all its possible loopholes) may be the best person to explain where exactly the legal lines are drawn & how to best avoid overstepping them.

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    Default Re: Legal Matter: Lewd Dancing

    Quote Originally Posted by Aniela View Post
    If this issue is really sticking in your craw (& I can understand why it is, I am pretty paranoid abt this as well) then I would again go directly to a LE official for clarification. These things tend to be deliberately written to be vague & I think that sm1 whose living involves knowing the law(& all its possible loopholes) may be the best person to explain where exactly the legal lines are drawn & how to best avoid overstepping them.
    I appreciate the response. Who is LE official?

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    Default Re: Legal Matter: Lewd Dancing

    Law enforcement official.

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    Default Re: Legal Matter: Lewd Dancing

    Quote Originally Posted by Aniela View Post
    Law enforcement official.
    I'm not sure how I'd do that. Don't get me wrong, I appreciate your advice and I think it'd be smart to do so especially if I'm so worried about it. But I just don't know how exactly to do it. Just come up to a cop in the police department and say: hey I'm a stripper, if you were ever sent as an undercover to the strip club, what would you bust for?
    I just can't imagine doing that......
    Have you ever come up to LE and asked them about the laws?

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    Default Re: Legal Matter: Lewd Dancing

    My club used to be really strict about girls not touching their genitalia on stage, not sure if because its trashy or they could get ticketed but they were really clear about it. Seems they don't care about it now because a lot of girls spread their lips or even rub their clits for customers and I have to carry hand sanitizer and get a new cloth to clean the pole before every set.
    As far as dances they are full friction and most clubs allow prostitution so I personally have never met anyone who has been arrested for anything including prostitution. If Tootsies operates as freely as it does doing all kinds of illegal shit obviously badges are paid off and the club and the girls are left alone.
    Anytime there has been a crack down for prostitution or drugs it has been carried out by the club itself and they don't involve police/law enforcement they just fire hos and take the drugs for themselves.

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    Default Re: Legal Matter: Lewd Dancing

    A number of my relatives are police so I generally feel quite at ease around them, & I actually seek them out ITC esp when dancing in a new area. I just go up to a uniform & chat him up, if he is a regular there (as in works a nearby beat & stops in periodically while on duty) then he will usually broach the 'So you are new here … ?' Questions & I can go from there.

    I actually did this most recently when I started dancing in DC & might have been able to make a real ally in the club had it not been closed for structural problems. I asked him where I could go to find DC laws since I always had a hard time finding local laws online(truth) & he suggested XYZ Station in whatever district it's located.

    Guys that come in off-duty tho, I generally treat them as customers. If I come across one who claims to be 'working' & is acting like it I offer to sit for a few minutes & just look busy while I scope the room but do not try to chat them up or otherwise bother them.

    A side benefit of befriending the cops who come into your club (uniforms specifically since they are obvious) is that customers who see you are friendly w/ them may be less inclined to push for extras.

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    Default Re: Legal Matter: Lewd Dancing

    Yes . technically lap dances can be construed as lewd or prostitution in some cases. I went through this in Florida years ago. They usually bust during election time or sometimes they get a hair up their ass and vice comes in and busts. Happens in Dallas, Houston all over. It's the gamble you take working in this industry
    Indeed this is now an 'occupational hazard' in most US states. Since the '90's , the expected lap dance contact levels taking place in most strip clubs on a nightly basis technically 'crosses the line' regarding literal interpretations of state prostitution and lewd conduct laws. However, club busts happen so infrequently that clubowners aren't worried ... and even when busts do happen most state laws make it far more difficult to charge the club itself than to charge the dancers.

    Also in some states ( mainly those states that don't also have a separate charge for lewd conduct ), their definition of prostitution does not require that the person paying the money to also a be a participant in the sexual contact. Thus in Texas for example, if customers are tipping at the rail, if two dancers are on stage, and if one dancer happens to touch the other dancer's breast, all of the legal elements are present to charge the two dancers with prostitution !!!


    basically, from what i've gathered, if somebody has a hair up their arse, you can get busted and charged. just like when they do a sweep for extras or drugs, they can lump you in with the other girls if they want. like michelle said, thats always the risk when being an exotic dancer ( and one of the many). its just something you need to seriously weight before getting into
    Generally speaking, clubowners aren't at much risk if and when a bust takes place, because charges involving 'promoting' prostitution etc. are almost impossible to prove ... as compared to prostitution charges leveled against dancers being almost impossible to DISprove. Motivations for club busts usually involve a need for local headlines during a local election, a side effect of drugs / violence happening in or around the club, a refusal by the club owner to contribute to the local LE 'widows and orphans' fund, etc.

    And yes, if and when a dancer is ( bogusly ) busted, in the absence of hard evidence proving her innocence ( i.e. club security tape ), the busted dancer is generally placed in a 'he said, she said' situation ... where the dancer must attempt to convince a good ol boy local judge or a jury of jealous housewives, bible thumping retirees, and gov't employees, that they should believe the word of a 'stripper' over the word of a well respected local vice cop. And indeed, such a charge plus plea bargain / guilty verdict will result in a 'sex crime' misdemeanor appearing on the dancer's permanent record.

    So yeah, girls who are investing years worth of effort and tens of thousands of dollars to study for a future 'professional' career may want to add potential bust risk into any equation involving exotic dancing to help pay for college.

    Ironically, once a dancer has a misdemeanor 'sex crime' on her permanent record, she has absolutely nothing additional to 'lose' if she is busted again. This indeed provides motivation for some dancers to offer high contact levels / 'extras' to customers, because it represents lots of extra earnings potential in exchange for zero additional legal risk. Even more ironically, when busted for the first time, an 'extras' dancer is also likely to have the $5000+ available to retain her own high powered attorney to file an appeal in a higher court ... which is likely to result in charges being dropped on appeal for lack of hard evidence, thus no 'black' mark on her own criminal record.
    Last edited by Melonie; 05-19-2014 at 04:30 AM.

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    Default Re: Legal Matter: Lewd Dancing

    Quote Originally Posted by simone87 View Post
    its ridiculous. basically, from what i've gathered, if somebody has a hair up their arse, you can get busted and charged. just like when they do a sweep for extras or drugs, they can lump you in with the other girls if they want. like michelle said, thats always the risk when being an exotic dancer ( and one of the many). its just something you need to seriously weight before getting into.
    Yep! When I first started dancing I worked in a bikini bar in a city that had a hair up their asses. They made an ordinance were we couldn't wear t backs anymore and it said must cover anal cleft. Lol. They did that so the officer could determine if that was covered lol . Also we had to have a license to work there and I got 2 lewd and lascivious charges in the mail! Yes no one came in and said ok your being charged with giving a lap dance. One girl was smart and got an attorney and all the charges dropped( cost her like 3000) I just had our attorney. All it did was bring the ticket charge down. It's still on my record. I read the so called" sting "report and it said I was identified by my name . Lol. No one came in the club and if they did I gave them a stage name. I knew as soon as I read that report they just doctored up those reports and just sent a citation to everyone who had a license. How else would they know my real name and address since they never came in the damn club.

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    Default Re: Legal Matter: Lewd Dancing

    Quote Originally Posted by Aniela View Post
    If this issue is really sticking in your craw (& I can understand why it is, I am pretty paranoid abt this as well) then I would again go directly to a LE official for clarification. These things tend to be deliberately written to be vague & I think that sm1 whose living involves knowing the law(& all its possible loopholes) may be the best person to explain where exactly the legal lines are drawn & how to best avoid overstepping them.
    It wouldn't matter. That's exactly why the are written that way. They aren't going to give her any info. They're not attorneys. If they want they will come in and bust. That's just the way it is and you will be cited as well if you're there in some cases. It's a risk e take. If their are other busts in the area it's a pretty sure thing there will be one where you are and you just have to not go in until things die down. Like I said. You really don't have to worry ,unless it's election time or the town is trying to impose a new ordinance on a club. those are the time they usually make a visit. Also don't say or do anything that can be construed as illegal. Though sometimes that doesn't matter if they want to make a huge bust and depending on how much funds are invested in said bust.

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    Default Re: Legal Matter: Lewd Dancing

    Quote Originally Posted by michele11 View Post
    You really don't have to worry ,unless it's election time or the town is trying to impose a new ordinance on a club.
    You mean presidential election? Or state election?

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    Default Re: Legal Matter: Lewd Dancing

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie View Post
    Indeed this is now an 'occupational hazard' in most US states. Since the '90's , the expected lap dance contact levels taking place in most strip clubs on a nightly basis technically 'crosses the line' regarding literal interpretations of state prostitution and lewd conduct laws. However, club busts happen so infrequently that clubowners aren't worried ... and even when busts do happen most state laws make it far more difficult to charge the club itself than to charge the dancers.
    Melonie, what is the best thing for a dancer to do? Just hope for the best and keep calm and make money? Or is there anything she can do to prevent the arrest and the charges? Also, if arrested is there a good possibility that if she can afford to go to a higher court her charges will be dropped?

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    Default Re: Legal Matter: Lewd Dancing

    Considering all these laws and regulations, stripping is practically illegal then?

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    Default Re: Legal Matter: Lewd Dancing

    Melonie, what is the best thing for a dancer to do? Just hope for the best and keep calm and make money? Or is there anything she can do to prevent the arrest and the charges? Also, if arrested is there a good possibility that if she can afford to go to a higher court her charges will be dropped?
    Unfortunately, prior to deciding to retire from live dancing, this was the conclusion I came to.

    In America, there's 'JUSTICE' for the rich, and 'justice' for everyone else. Thus, ironically, the very best thing a dancer can probably do today is to offer major league 'extras'. The much higher resulting earnings provided by selling 'extras' then provides that dancer with an immediately available $5000-$10000 ... which can be used in the case of a bust to retain her own 'well connected' local attorney as well as to file an appeal to a higher court where there is no jury and where the judges look at actual hard evidence ( or lack thereof ). A finding of innocence on appeal also results in a 'clean' criminal record. And she can even deduct these legal costs as a legitimate IRS 'business expense' !

    On the flip side, a 100% 'clean' dancer who is actually offering zero contact and otherwise abiding by all state and local laws will experience comparatively low earnings ... which in turn will force her to use a public defender or the club's attorney if and when she is ( bogusly ) busted. The probable outcome will be that a vice cop says she's guilty, the dancer says she's innocent, and the local good ol' boy judge or the local court jury made up of jealous housewives, retired bible thumpers, civil servants etc. will believe the vice cop and find her guilty !!! Or the club's attorney will work out a plea bargain deal with the DA, where the busted dancer can avoid jail time and fine payment via pleading guilty 'on paper'. This allows the busted dancer to return to work the very next night, and doesn't cost her any additional money, but DOES cause a 'sex crime' misdemeanor charge to appear on her permanent record for all prospective 'straight job' employers to immediately discover.

    The disgusting irony of this situation contributed heavily to my decision to retire from live dancing as early as I did. If you search some older threads, you'll find my own bogus bust incident ... which cost me close to $10,000 worth of attorney and appeals court fees to 'walk away' without a black mark on my permanent record. And despite my record being wiped clean via being found innocent on appeal, the original local newspaper front page story titled 'Big Bust Bust' is still floating around the net for anyone doing an in depth Google search to find. And the DA who was elected Mayor soon after he got all of the free local publicity at my 'expense' never even said thank you !!!


    Considering all these laws and regulations, stripping is practically illegal then?
    Under a strict interpretation of state prostitution and lewd conduct laws, it's very probable that the 'standard' lap dances and stage performances being offered in many clubs today are technically illegal. But even if a particular dancer isn't actually doing anything illegal, this won't matter in a local court case where a well respected local cop can say she WAS doing something illegal, where no hard evidence exists ( like a club security tape ) allowing the dancer to 'prove her innocence', and where the local jury is almost certainly going to take the word of a well respected local cop over the word of a 'stripper'.
    Last edited by Melonie; 05-19-2014 at 09:43 AM.

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