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Thread: is 'Seeking Arrangements' the 'new normal' ???

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    Default is 'Seeking Arrangements' the 'new normal' ???

    from


    (snip)"My Girlfriend Is a Sugar Baby (And I’m OK With That)

    A nice dinner at an atmospheric Lower East Side restaurant concludes with my cool, demure, diminutive girlfriend pulling out a wad of bills that could choke a donkey. “I’ve got this one,” she says, peeling off a hundred and securing it to the table with her wine glass. “Shall we?” Kate is putting herself through grad school with student loans and clerical work; more often than not, I pay for dinner. Tonight, however, is the third time she’s had sex for money, and the third time she’s taken me out to eat afterward. It’s become a sort of tradition.

    Twenty-six-year old Kate and I have been dating, non-exclusively, for more than a year. She had planned for her two-year stint in New York to be a time of romantic and sexual exploration with a rotating cast of interesting characters. I was lucky enough to land the only recurring role six weeks into her first semester.

    Kate had been in the city for about seven months when she decided to put an ad on Seeking Arrangement, a website that exists to connect well-heeled men with actresses, models, students (750 from New York University alone, the company claims) and, according to an internal survey, thousands of public-school teachers. The “sugar daddy” and “sugar baby” agree how the former will compensate the latter for companionship—however that is defined. Sometimes, the sugar daddy will shower his benefactee with gifts, pay her rent or devise another setup that allows one or both parties to distance themselves from prostitution and its stigma.

    But Kate doesn’t shy away from that fact that it’s sex work; she prefers cash. Only a tiny portion of what she earns gets splashed out on a mid-priced meal like ours, though. The remainder is put into a college fund for her nieces and nephews.

    “I’m only going to be with people I’d consider having sex with anyway,” she said after posting her “sugar baby” profile and sorting through the numerous responses. Mutual attraction is a very new development for the world’s oldest profession, a real boon for women who seek to convert sexual capital into money ad hoc.

    Of the many offers that came flooding in, it was a good-looking, recently divorced 48-year-old surgeon that fit the bill. Over lunch at a trendy restaurant, he offered Kate $600 for an hour of her time one afternoon that week. (Typically, sugar daddies and sugar babies settle into a more rolling retainer agreement, which again distinguishes it from old-school sex work.)

    “Are you going to do it?” I asked. Part of me imagined that the meeting alone had sated her curiosity, but I was wrong. Kate said that she found John slightly odd—but not quite odd enough to forgo what she hoped would be an easy payday. I had an uneasy feeling about her entering the skin trade, but part of what had attracted me to Kate was her boundary-pushing sexuality. I relished the opportunity to share in one of her adventures, albeit at some remove. My role was to know exactly where Kate was going and when, as a safety measure; we also planned to meet immediately after her “date”.

    Going in. My stomach sank as I read her two-word text shortly before the 3pm appointment. I knew from experience that the outcome could go any number of ways. In 2010, Jen, an Ivy League grad I’d been on a couple of dates with, began seeing a Brazilian banker through Seeking Arrangement. He paid her rent, took her to the city’s most celebrated restaurants and jetted her around the world with him. They started having so much fun that often she didn’t have the time or need for her day job. Within six months, she and Beto had fallen in love and moved to Sao Paolo, where they plan to start a family.

    Would Kate go that route? Or might she come through my door in tears, having chased her curiosity too far? Although she was the epitome of level-headed, actually having sex for money seemed like a huge departure from her normal brand of sexual curiosity.

    Kate arrived at my apartment less than 50 minutes after her session began. With her lipstick smeared, she fanned the bills in her hand and playfully waved them in my face, giggling. “Are you okay?” I asked. “Of course,” she said with characteristic sang-froid, smelling faintly of aftershave.

    Pervert that I am, we were naked within a minute of her coming through the door. Amid particularly frenetic action, she gave me the broad strokes. They’d spoken for five minutes, had intense sex for another five, then he spooned her for a further ten. All in all, John had been respectful, courteous, even tender. After just 20 minutes, she left. Pro-rated, her hourly fee was $1,800.

    On the walk back to my place, Kate decided that instead of seeing John on an ongoing basis, she’d visit him when she felt like it. (Her unavailability caused John to nearly double his fee by the next date.) She also decided that one guy willing to pay her for sex was plenty.

    Kate, like Jen, is a new type of prostitute: One who is living out a sexual fantasy in exchange for money that she could certainly use but doesn’t need. With more than a million members—the vast majority of them female sugar babies—Seeking Arrangements has pushed these mutually beneficial relationships into the realm of acceptability.

    I’ve only told a few friends about Kate’s newest adventure. They all asked if I thought our relationship was devalued by her decision to exchange sex for money. It hasn’t been. In fact, I think it’s strengthened it. Being the only person to know about Kate’s adventures makes me her confidant, the beneficiary of her trust. I also know that if I could command $1,000 for a 20-minute date with someone I’d have sex with for free, I would jump at the chance.(snip)

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    God/dess whirlerz's Avatar
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    Default Re: is 'Seeking Arrangements' the 'new normal' ???

    Cool. I've been hearing that those sites aren't usually too successful for the women..


    MANY MEN WANTED TO LAY ME DOWN, BUT FEW WANTED TO LIFT ME UP

    -Eartha Kitt

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    God/dess simone87's Avatar
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    Default Re: is 'Seeking Arrangements' the 'new normal' ???

    good for her. unfortunately, there are usually very few exceptionally attractive wealthy men willing to pay lots of money for sex in my experience. you usually get the ones who cannot get it for free..maybe that's just my experience tho

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    Banned Melonie's Avatar
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    Default Re: is 'Seeking Arrangements' the 'new normal' ???

    I guess that I was looking at 'Seeking Arrangements' from the viewpoint of it's potential effects on our industry ...

    - it encourages 'mainstream' girls to become de-facto escorts, from a functional standpoint at least ... with the main difference being that the girls can cherry pick their 'customers' and refuse other potential 'customers' without consequence.

    - it reinforces a mindset that guys who spend major money on a girl have a 'right' to receive their 'money's worth'.

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    God/dess tempest666's Avatar
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    Default Re: is 'Seeking Arrangements' the 'new normal' ???

    Too bad no Sean Connery look alikes.
    "Fake tits are like Kevlar. They don't guarantee your chances of survival but they sure as hell improve it."
    Tempest

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    Default Re: is 'Seeking Arrangements' the 'new normal' ???

    ^^^ actually, that points up another aspect ... the Charlie Sheen factor ... but without the social stigma attached of the guy 'paying for sex' or the girl providing 'sex for money'. Seeking Arrangements clearly focuses on short-term 'relationships' of a mercenary nature, but downplays the interpretation that prostitution is actually involved. Brilliant marketing !!!

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    God/dess simone87's Avatar
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    Default Re: is 'Seeking Arrangements' the 'new normal' ???

    but a real escort can also cherry pick her clientelle right?..if you aren't comfortable with somebody, they give you a bad vibe, they are dirty, etc you can turn them down.
    and men have been thinking that for decades if not centuries!!

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    Default Re: is 'Seeking Arrangements' the 'new normal' ???

    Quote Originally Posted by simone87 View Post
    good for her. unfortunately, there are usually very few exceptionally attractive wealthy men willing to pay lots of money for sex in my experience. you usually get the ones who cannot get it for free..maybe that's just my experience tho
    You would be surprised. The vast majority of clients I've had are guys who absolutely could "get it for free."

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    Default Re: is 'Seeking Arrangements' the 'new normal' ???

    The vast majority of clients I've had are guys who absolutely could "get it for free."
    ^^^ This was the basis for my comment about the Charlie Sheen factor. Charlie was quoted as saying ... ' I don't pay girls for sex, I pay them to LEAVE afterwards' !!!

    Indeed, it seems that an increasing number of 'professional' men are now seeking to avoid the unknowns / bulls#!t factor of 'dating', and are also seeking to avoid the potential responsibilities of a conventional relationship / marriage. Seeking Arrangements provide this, and provides it without the potential social stigma of outright prostitution.

    As such, Seeking Arrangements may be the latest evolution of a trend that began with lifelong marriage, then mutated into 'serial' marriages lasting a few years each, which is now mutating again into 'lease a girlfriend' for a few weeks or months.

    From a social stigma viewpoint, 'leasing a girlfriend' via Seeking Arrangements is a giant step above 'renting a girlfriend' i.e. outright prostitution in the same way that leasing a car from a dealer is a giant step above calling Enterprise RentACar to send over a 'rental car' for the day. Neither carries the responsibility of actually 'buying' a car, but in terms of casual outward appearances it's difficult to distinguish a leased car from one which was actually 'bought'.
    Last edited by Melonie; 06-02-2014 at 09:01 AM.

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    Default Re: is 'Seeking Arrangements' the 'new normal' ???

    I remember seeing a news segment about high-priced escorts. One of the wealthy clients was asked why someone like him was paying for sex. He said paying for sex was a lot cheaper than getting it for free.

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    God/dess simone87's Avatar
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    Default Re: is 'Seeking Arrangements' the 'new normal' ???

    well that's good! refreshing change from the moon-eyed custies i meet who come looking for a relationship and start treating their favorite stripper like their gf..

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    Default Re: is 'Seeking Arrangements' the 'new normal' ???

    Maybe for some people it is, for most.. no.

    I think people go through phases, or at least many do. The girls willing to be a sugar baby aren't always going to be happy with that arrangement. The guys who can afford it are probably either done with the traditional relationship or aren't ready for one.

    I'm not even sure there is anything really new about this. If we went back to the 1950s wouldn't the same thing be going on with executives and their cute fresh out of college secretaries?

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    Default Re: is 'Seeking Arrangements' the 'new normal' ???

    I think people go through phases, or at least many do. The girls willing to be a sugar baby aren't always going to be happy with that arrangement. The guys who can afford it are probably either done with the traditional relationship or aren't ready for one.

    I'm not even sure there is anything really new about this. If we went back to the 1950s wouldn't the same thing be going on with executives and their cute fresh out of college secretaries?
    Actually, there are major differences. Back in the 50's most wives depended on their husband for household income / support. Thus divorce settlements heavily favored the wife. Yes there were undoubtedly 'affairs' ... but with those 'affairs' posing a risk that the cheating husband could be 'cleaned out' via an at-fault divorce action granting the majority of joint assets, plus alimony payments, to the divorced wife. Also, back in the 50's guys who were not married often faced 'career obstacles' as employers wondered about the single guy's 'commitment' to the job.

    This changed during the 70's and 80's as wives joined the workforce themselves. However, this affected typical divorce settlements because the courts were forced to recognize that working ex-wives are able to support themselves. Or put another way, divorce settlements began to 'equalize' toward a 50-50 split, and alimony became rare. And at-fault divorces became rarer and rarer, replaced by no-fault divorces ... which removed most remaining social stigma against divorce. Also, the 'career obstacles' facing single guys began to decline because far more workers were available from the 'labor pool' which now included millions of wives.

    Rich guys responded to this increasing 50-50 no questions asked split scenario by requiring pre-nups. At that point, with lots of previous assets protected by a pre-nup, it became far less expensive for rich guys to divorce their wives. And other laws which assign different 'rights' to divorced wives who have been married more than 10 years, versus divorced wives who have been married for less than 10 years, actually provided an 'incentive' for rich guys to think about divorce prior to reaching the 10 year mark. The end result was the arguable revolving door of 'serial marriage' ... where the rich husband 'traded in' his wife every few years, in exchange for a 'newer model'. This also led to the removal of virtually all remaining 'career obstacles' faced by single guys, since being single then married then single again then married again then single yet again became more and more common in 'professional' circles - plus employers found that single employees were less 'expensive' to the employer in terms of employee benefit costs etc. than employees with families.

    However, while less expensive than an 'at-fault' division of assets plus alimony a la the 50's, even a pre-nup based 50-50 split of assets accumulated only during the period of the marriage still wasn't 'cheap' by any means ... and especially so with legal fees tacked on. This arguable leads to today's Seeking Arrangements, where the rich guy can decide how much he's willing to spend on a 'pay as you go' basis, where the rich guy has absolutely no legal commitments to pay additional moneys ( or turn over additional assets ) after the 'arrangment' is terminated, etc., but where the social stigma can still be avoided because the rich guy and his 'leased girlfriend' are not viewed by polite society in the same negative way as the guy simply paying a prostitute. This creates a scenario where a rich guy can 'trade in' his 'leased girlfriend' every year, at no additional cost, and with no negative fallout in his 'professional' or social life.

    Of course this raises the new flip side question about what happens to the single women who 'age out' of the Seeking Arrangements pool, who never became 'housekeepers' ( ZsaZsa Gabor reference ... 'every time I got divorced I kept the house' ), etc. Maybe OurTime.com is the flip side of Seeking Arrangements.
    Last edited by Melonie; 06-03-2014 at 10:00 AM.

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    Default Re: is 'Seeking Arrangements' the 'new normal' ???

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie View Post
    - it encourages 'mainstream' girls to become de-facto escorts, from a functional standpoint at least ... with the main difference being that the girls can cherry pick their 'customers' and refuse other potential 'customers' without consequence.
    The exclusivity factor will not effect the majority of dancers. Also, I'm just going to take a guess here, but I'm pretty sure most boyfriends would have serious issues with their girlfriend escorting.

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    Default Re: is 'Seeking Arrangements' the 'new normal' ???

    Quote Originally Posted by simone87 View Post
    well that's good! refreshing change from the moon-eyed custies i meet who come looking for a relationship and start treating their favorite stripper like their gf..
    LOL Honestly I don't think those guys usually see escorts or prostitutes or sugar babies or whatever they're calling themselves. They're too delusional. Plus, nobody wants to deal with that, even on a pay for play basis. I had one client who acted like that and I dropped him as a client for it. It's a big red flag that a guy might become dangerous. Most of the time, those guys don't even make it past my initial screening but even then, they're definitely in the minority.

    The majority of clients/sugar daddies (whatever you call them) are super normal.

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    Banned Melonie's Avatar
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    Default Re: is 'Seeking Arrangements' the 'new normal' ???

    I'm pretty sure most boyfriends would have serious issues with their girlfriend escorting.
    Alternatively, boyfriends who are unemployed or working at near minimum wage jobs may not be given much of a 'say' in the matter !!! Or put another way, girlfriends choosing Seeking Arrangements really won't be all that different from girlfriends who choose to 'strip' from the standpoint of a 'broke' boyfriend's opinion. Either the girl accedes to the boyfriend's objections and stays 'broke', or the girl sets the 'broke' boyfriend's opinion at a lower priority level than bringing home a decent amount of money. It's also distinctly possible that, as stated in the original news blurb, the boyfriend will be supportive of the girlfriend's 'income producing' activities if he gets to 'share the wealth'.

    The over-riding point to all of this is that Seeking Arrangements is seeking to become a socially acceptable 'new normal' evolution versus repeated transactions with escorts / prostitutes ... with a fair amount of early success.
    Last edited by Melonie; 06-03-2014 at 10:26 AM.

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    Default Re: is 'Seeking Arrangements' the 'new normal' ???

    Quote Originally Posted by simone87 View Post
    but a real escort can also cherry pick her clientelle right?..if you aren't comfortable with somebody, they give you a bad vibe, they are dirty, etc you can turn them down.
    Yes. I can say for a fact that it's been standard practice for independent escorts to do that for at least the past 10 years. The internet has allowed women to become independent and break away from agencies and pimps and every single professional independent escort has some sort of screening process in place which she uses to pick and choose her clientele.

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    Default Re: is 'Seeking Arrangements' the 'new normal' ???

    The reason I don't see it as the new normal is that when I walk around town, or thru the mall, I see few women that turn my head. The ladies here are truly their own 'one percent'

    To be worth money, something must be in demand, and out and about I do not see any threat to the revenue stream of any of the various occupations covered here.

    Real life is not all about sex or attractiveness, but if you are renting......................

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    Default Re: is 'Seeking Arrangements' the 'new normal' ???

    ^^^ I was referring to a 'new normal' in regard to the existing escort business model.

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    Default Re: is 'Seeking Arrangements' the 'new normal' ???

    Then, nah, they will never take the cut in pay..............

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    Default Re: is 'Seeking Arrangements' the 'new normal' ???

    ^^^ agreed ... but they may be forced to take a cut in 'sales volume' if some number of customers start shifting toward 'lease a girlfriend' via Seeking Arrangements instead of booking repeat appointments with an escort.

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    God/dess simone87's Avatar
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    Default Re: is 'Seeking Arrangements' the 'new normal' ???

    i'm not understanding..why can't escorting just kind of evolve into that? every business is going to shift and change, you have to learn to shift with it

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    Default Re: is 'Seeking Arrangements' the 'new normal' ???

    ^because I'm sure there are a lot of escorts that aren't interested in having long-term relationships with clients just like there are a lot of strippers who aren't interested in having regulars. And with the sugar-baby relationship, there is more of an emotional connection-- I've known escorts who refuse to do GFE, or even meet for dinners/lunch beforehand because they find it uneasy and just want to keep the relationship purely sexual and just show up and do the deed and leave. For me personally I would be more comfortable with the sugar baby arrangement than being an escort, but I everyone is different-- I've worked with many girls in clubs who find regulars to be a huge hassle and I imagine it's the same for escorts?

    I can definitely see why it appeals to these guys, I mean it's the same reason a lot of them come to the club. I've had several regulars who were high-powered businessmen, doctors, etc who had no patience for relationships. If they had a free evening and they wanted to see a woman, they were going to see a woman, but they weren't going to put up with phone calls and actually having to work with someone else's schedule, and, god forbid, someone else's wants/needs. They weren't my favorite regs to be honest, I'm a girly girl and I like regulars who act like they're in love with me! It's not about getting sex for free, it's about getting sex (or lap dances in the case of ones who frequent strip clubs) when and where they want it. And for these guys it's just about sex, it's not about the ego boost of picking up young, hot women in bars, they're not looking for the conquest.

    I don't know, I guess it could inspire more main-stream women to move toward escorting, but personally I think it takes a certain type of person to be able to have sex for money and be comfortable with it, you are that way or you are not... people who are very emotionally wrapped up in sex will never be able to deal with that arrangement.

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    Default Re: is 'Seeking Arrangements' the 'new normal' ???

    The thing that stands out for me is that if they aren't professionals you lose that detachment. Also how do you ensure discretion and reliability?

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    Default Re: is 'Seeking Arrangements' the 'new normal' ???

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie View Post
    I guess that I was looking at 'Seeking Arrangements' from the viewpoint of it's potential effects on our industry ...

    - it encourages 'mainstream' girls to become de-facto escorts, from a functional standpoint at least ... with the main difference being that the girls can cherry pick their 'customers' and refuse other potential 'customers' without consequence.

    - it reinforces a mindset that guys who spend major money on a girl have a 'right' to receive their 'money's worth'.
    I thought that escorts can already do that. They're not obligated to go through with it once the guy shows up and many of them disqualify most of the guys before they even speak to them on the phone.

    As far as reinforcing a mindset though, I dunno. I mean, it's only guys who are going to this website who are looking for this specific type of arrangement. From my limited experience as a sugar baby (I ended up going out on a handful of dates, but ultimately it wasn't worth my time) it's very up front. It's a transaction that they're doing a weird little "we both know this is a transaction but let's pretend it's not" dance around. In my experience, though most of them do want to pay for sex without feeling like they're paying for sex, they will typically be up front about what they expect. "I will give you $300 every time we meet. We'll have lunch and then go back to my place." And any woman above the age of 10 (or younger if she has cable tv) knows what a guy has in mind when he invites you back to his place.

    It's not like a guy is going to come to a strip club, drop $1K and then go, "but I saw this one website and it said that there are sugar babies and sugar daddies so now I'm going to fuck you because that website gave me the notion that you owe me."



    I

    Quote Originally Posted by Renton View Post
    Him: we could meet... im 5ft 9 sexy italian with a 8 inch love stick...imagine playing with me... how would you do it
    Me: I would cut off your dick and feed it to the pigs

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