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Thread: is 'Seeking Arrangements' the 'new normal' ???

  1. #26
    Moderator IsobelWren's Avatar
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    Default Re: is 'Seeking Arrangements' the 'new normal' ???

    Melonie it sounds like you're trying to say that this is all something new and SB/SD is an end point in a slippery slope of society turning toward liberalization in relationships. None of this is new stuff.

    Prenups: The Hebrew marriage contract (called the Ketubah) is over 2000 years old and the earliest known example of a prenuptial agreement. Dowries were originally intended to be a woman's compensation if the marriage didn't turn out. Engagement and wedding rings themselves were originally meant as a compensation in case of dissolution.

    Divorce: As far as I'm aware, Judaism and Islam both had religious guidelines for divorce something like thousands of years ago (but I'm not 100% certain about that.). The Christian church (whippersnapper of religions) got with the divorce program in the early 1500s when Henry the 8th forced the English split with the Catholic church in Rome because he wanted to get rid of his wife after she couldn't have more kids. Talk about an expensive divorce, btw, the split Henry created in the church was a focusing event in the whole Protestant/Catholic break that's led to centuries of bloody conflicts. I think "normal" people gained the legal right to divorce in like, 1850 something. Even before divorce, most churches/municipalities allowed annulment for various reasons.

    Sex for money: There have always been financial arrangements for access to the pussy. "Oldest profession" and all that. In that, there have always been different gradations, if you will, of the lengths of contractual access to pussy; from street wham-bams to brothels to mistresses to sacred temple prostitutes. Some people even say that marriage is a form of prostitution.

    Also, when talking about the history of marriage/divorce we need to remember that women were basically just property until very recently so of course we're just now seeing a change in equality of benefits.

    I can provide links/scholarly articles/etc to back up or clarify any of this information. My degree is in human sexuality and one of my well-published areas of expertise is the history of prostitution in the modern era. LOL, if you need to know *ANYTHING* about prostitution in the western world from like, 1850 to now, I am your gal. I'm just your lazy gal, so I'm not investing the effort to dig into my references unless requested.


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    Default Re: is 'Seeking Arrangements' the 'new normal' ???

    I really doubt the validity of this article. I think it's a covert advert for Seeking Arrangements. That website mademan has a ranking of 4,764 according to Alexa. That's a lot of visitors. It's getting people talking and that alone makes it a brilliant marketing campaign.

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    Default Re: is 'Seeking Arrangements' the 'new normal' ???

    interesting side note/thread jack - women were considered chattel - chattel is the fancy word for property - property as in cows or land - the marriage vow phrase " to have and to hold " is a legal term dealing with property rights -- when women were no longer legally allowed to be considered chattel it was feared that men would no longer find marriage attractive -

    anywho - Seeking arrangements is prostitution --- sex in exchange for consideration - consideration is a legal term for something of value - some are just in denial -- and many men think they are getting a less " marketed" partner - and many are just looking for a lady who is naive and does not know her true worth as a paid companion

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    Default Re: is 'Seeking Arrangements' the 'new normal' ???

    ^^^ I agree with you on the brilliant marketing aspect !!!


    Melonie it sounds like you're trying to say that this is all something new and SB/SD is an end point in a slippery slope of society turning toward liberalization in relationships. None of this is new stuff.
    Oh, agreed, from the standpoint of historical facts at least. But the 'real world' relevance stems from the actual existence of that 'slope' from the 50's to the 80's to today, in the USA at least. Arguably, Seeking Arrangements is trying to promote social acceptability for 'leased girlfriends' ... about which I personally could care less. However, from a 'professional' standpoint, this could have an impact on the present independent escort business model.


    anywho - Seeking arrangements is prostitution --- sex in exchange for consideration - consideration is a legal term for something of value - some are just in denial -- and many men think they are getting a less " marketed" partner - and many are just looking for a lady who is naive and does not know her true worth as a paid companion
    Again, 'real world' considerations have to be taken into account. Under an absurdly strict legal interpretation, most occurrences of sex between unmarried persons could be considered an act of prostitution !!! In 'real world' terms, prostitution charges seemingly never arise unless there is a direct link between payment and sex. With the present independent escort business model, the argument can be made that such direct link exists. Seeking Arrangements 'sublimates' any compensation for sex to an indirect link ... for the apparent purpose of taking the topic of prostitution off the table, as well as to promote increased social acceptance.

    Agreed that the increased 'salability' of a less marketed partner is probably a consideration. And yet another reason that the present independent escort business model may be affected.
    Last edited by Melonie; 06-05-2014 at 08:37 AM.

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    Default Re: is 'Seeking Arrangements' the 'new normal' ???

    I went looking for anything about LE and SA and stumbled upon this article

    http://www.miaminewtimes.com/2013-06...t-sugar-daddy/

    I agree that it's still prostitution, but these particular sites have a marketing scheme that keeps it in the clear. For now. I'm just amazed at how easy it is to manipulate a persons moral code and thought process. A quote from this article about sugarbabies:

    "...Some slip from being college students to straight-up prostitutes."

    Young College Student = Sugar Baby? What the heck is a straight up prostitute? I'm afraid to know really. I guess it's all in how you spin it.

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    Default Re: is 'Seeking Arrangements' the 'new normal' ???

    Quote Originally Posted by audrey_k View Post
    ^because I'm sure there are a lot of escorts that aren't interested in having long-term relationships with clients
    i can totally understand that, but from what other's have been saying these guys are "paying the girls to leave afterwards" and to have it NOT be a real relationship, and just look like one.

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    Default Re: is 'Seeking Arrangements' the 'new normal' ???

    Quote Originally Posted by amberlly View Post
    The thing that stands out for me is that if they aren't professionals you lose that detachment. Also how do you ensure discretion and reliability?
    You can't. That being said, the line of "professionalism" can be a bit blurry even when you are dealing with presumed professionals. I wish every seasoned dancer and escort acted the way that they should when it comes to their clients and discretion but they often don't. There are a lot of women getting into this industry now who have unrealistic expectations based either on either friends who are already well established or worse yet, learning about the sex industry from reality TV shows and "documentaries" from our friends at MSNBC and the like. Sex work is still work and the stronger your work ethic the better off you will be. It's really not a "get rich quick" deal and a lot of newbies think it is.
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    Default Re: is 'Seeking Arrangements' the 'new normal' ???

    Quote Originally Posted by simone87 View Post
    i can totally understand that, but from what other's have been saying these guys are "paying the girls to leave afterwards" and to have it NOT be a real relationship, and just look like one.
    From what I understand being a SB requires going out on datss, multiple times a week somtimes, talking on the phone, listening to the clients problems, some SDs beone posessive and require exclusivity... that's very different than having a number of different clients who call you yo, you book them, you do the deed, you leave 30 mins later.

    Just speculating here tho!

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    Default Re: is 'Seeking Arrangements' the 'new normal' ???

    Good Evening Everyone,

    I can tell you from personal experience that Seeking Arrangement and Suggardaddyforme.com etc are full of wannabe sugar daddies. I personally had numerous men contact me after being on the site claiming to be sugar daddies and really they want a non "pro" to give them a MEGA RBGFE experience at a discount. Ladies, I'm new to this board but everything i speak of is from first hand experience within the past few days. OMG, I live in CA so, one guy wanted to see me 2 -3 times a month for $1500 a month?? really your going to talk my ear off, drag me all over town and get a discounted RBGFE.. No thank you !!

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    Default Re: is 'Seeking Arrangements' the 'new normal' ???

    ^^^ to be more precise, they're looking for a low 'mileage' RBGFE experience ( in the customer's own mind anyhow ). And for some college girls in this economy, the idea of earning $500+ every couple of weeks in exchange for a dinner / club 'date' followed by consensual sex is a hell of a lot better deal than cutting into study time by working 4 times as many part time hours at a local retailer to earn 1/2 that amount.

    Obviously, if the girl were willing to risk 'public exposure' and an adult industry 'paper trail', she could dance or try camming one night every couple of weeks and earn similar money with the same time devoted. However, Seeking Arrangements would seem to provide the same high income potential with zero risk of 'public exposure' and with no 'paper trail'. Also, arguably, any 'gifts' received via Seeking Arrangements are tax free, and do not count as 'total household income' which could reduce next semester's FAFSA student grant money or force painful explanations to parents when tax return time rolls around.
    Last edited by Melonie; 06-06-2014 at 03:55 AM.

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    Default Re: is 'Seeking Arrangements' the 'new normal' ???

    A little tangential to the topic, but I caught the original Charles Bronson version of the movie 'The Mechanic" a while back and there is an interesting bit about his paid companion which shows the faux relationship thing is nothing new.

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    Default Re: is 'Seeking Arrangements' the 'new normal' ???

    Quote Originally Posted by IsobelWren View Post
    ....
    Divorce: As far as I'm aware, Judaism and Islam both had religious guidelines for divorce something like thousands of years ago (but I'm not 100% certain about that.). The Christian church (whippersnapper of religions) got with the divorce program in the early 1500s when Henry the 8th ...
    Islam is only about 1400 years old. Divorce in it does not depend on a religious permission, but according to the tenets, it only depends on the spouse declaring it publically three times. You are right about doweries.

    Quote Originally Posted by IsobelWren View Post
    LOL, if you need to know *ANYTHING* about prostitution in the western world from like, 1850 to now, I am your gal. I'm just your lazy gal, so I'm not investing the effort to dig into my references unless requested.
    I've got one. What did they used to call 'blow jobs' before the twentieth century?
    _____

    (If I had the income and weren't too old for these young pretties seeking a SD, I'd be out there looking for some interesting gal(s) to exchange favors with. I really don't care for the girlfriend type relationship which becomes a 'non-beneficial', semi-permanent dependency way too easily. That being said, the SB/SD thing probably is a bit too temporary and insecure in the majority of times. Guess I'll have to go on with the FWB thing for now.)
    Last edited by threlayer; 06-13-2014 at 12:33 PM.
    I loved going to strip clubs; I actually made some friends there. Now things are different for the clubs and for me. As a result I am not as happy.

    Customers are not entitled to grope, disrespect, or rob strippers. This is their job, not their hobby, and they all need income. Clubs are not just some erotic show for guys to view while drinking.

    NOTE: anything I post here, outside of a direct quote, is my opinion only, which I am entitled to. Take it for what you estimate it is worth.

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    Default Re: is 'Seeking Arrangements' the 'new normal' ???

    I think we are headed toward some kind of legal framework for prostitution in the future. It'll take a while, like a generation or more, but our society seems to be more and more accepting of sex work as a (sort of) legitimate way to earn a living. The heteronormative model that is the current face of prostitution on websites like Seeking Arrangements or Eros.com will go a long way toward making the general public more comfortable with the idea.

    In other words, since rich white guys are doing it, it can't be all that bad, right?

    I'm in Portland, OR where sex work isn't usually an issue. A large portion of our population already works in the field. We've got more SOB's per capita than anyplace in the US (yes, even more than sexy San Francisco). Public nudity is constitutionally protected free speech in Oregon. Places called "Lingerie Modeling Studios," which are essentially brothels, dot the city and are generally not bothered by LE.

    The biggest problem in the clubs and extras girls are the loss of liquor or lottery retailer licensing. People don't generally go to jail for HJ's in VIP. The clubs just lose some of their revenue stream, and that is generally temporary (30 days is standard).

    Give it 20 years, and cities like Portland will figure out how to legalize and regulate prostitution. They'll likely look to places like Canada and Nevada for legal inspiration.

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    Default Re: is 'Seeking Arrangements' the 'new normal' ???

    ^ not canada anymore! its all messed up there now...

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    Default Re: is 'Seeking Arrangements' the 'new normal' ???

    Quote Originally Posted by Tourdefranzia View Post

    Give it 20 years, and cities like Portland will figure out how to legalize and regulate prostitution. They'll likely look to places like Canada and Nevada for legal inspiration.
    Actually Nevada proves that legalized prostitution will never be fully accepted by the women who practice the profession. For every woman working in a legal brothel and giving half of her money to the house there are dozens more indie and agency girls working on their own illegally. Why? Because legalized prostitution forces you to give up too much control and, quiet frankly, too much money. Decriminalizing the worlds oldest profession may work (though I don't think it will ever happen in the US) but legalizing it never will.

    Twenty or Thirty years ago folks were saying that prostitution would be legal in the next few years...
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    Default Re: is 'Seeking Arrangements' the 'new normal' ???

    Quote Originally Posted by simone87 View Post
    good for her. unfortunately, there are usually very few exceptionally attractive wealthy men willing to pay lots of money for sex in my experience. you usually get the ones who cannot get it for free..maybe that's just my experience tho
    these articles always make it seem like there's an abundance of fabulous men on these sites. From personal experience, there's a lot of NOT so fabulous men on these sites.
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    Default Re: is 'Seeking Arrangements' the 'new normal' ???

    They'll likely look to places like Canada and Nevada for legal inspiration.
    ^ not canada anymore! its all messed up there now...
    Decriminalizing the worlds oldest profession may work (though I don't think it will ever happen in the US) but legalizing it never will.

    Indeed. I won't duplicate discussions on this particular topic ... which can be seen at .

    However, I will summarize that Canada's legalization of prostititution ( for the prostitutes only ) also criminalizes prostitution for the 'customers', as well as for the '3rd party facilitators' ( i.e. strip clubs, escort agencies etc. ), via the so-called Nordic model ... at least in terms of targeted LE enforcement now being increasingly focused on the 'customers' and '3rd party facilitators'. Arguably, this provides yet MORE reason for 'customers' to use the services of Seeking Arrangements et al as a means to break / obscure direct linkages between 'customers' paying money, and girls providing sexual services in return for that money, which could otherwise lead to potential charges against the 'customer'.

    Thus I foresee Seeking Arrangements et al soon becoming a major 'force' in Canada, as the country must enact new / different laws over the course of the next few months to comply with the Canadian Supreme Court ruling that prostitution is now legal ( for the prostitutes ) !!! And, obviously, the Canadian Supreme Court ruling also removes remaining ' social stigma ' regarding girls who choose to provide sexual services under Seeking Arrangements.
    Last edited by Melonie; 06-15-2014 at 05:42 AM.

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    Default Re: is 'Seeking Arrangements' the 'new normal' ???

    Quote Originally Posted by yoda57us View Post
    Twenty or Thirty years ago folks were saying that prostitution would be legal in the next few years...
    the active fight for same sex marriage has been going on since the 1960's. We are finally getting there, today. Also, the legalization of marijuana has been a battle since the days hippie culture. It took a while, but once it took hold on the national stage, it started to really gain momentum.

    We are at a social juncture of female sexual freedom the likes of which have never been seen before in our society (or at least not since the suffrage movement of the 19th century). The body acceptances and anti-slut shaming ideologies are allowing women to embrace their sexuality and engage with men on their own terms. If those terms include the exchange of cash for sexual entertainment between consenting adults, then there is little argument as to what harm such activities has on society overall. Certainly, legal prostitution couldn't be any more socially damaging than the divorce rate and how divorce effects the family and personal financial stability.

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    Default Re: is 'Seeking Arrangements' the 'new normal' ???

    Quote Originally Posted by Tourdefranzia View Post
    t
    We are at a social juncture of female sexual freedom the likes of which have never been seen before in our society (or at least not since the suffrage movement of the 19th century). The body acceptances and anti-slut shaming ideologies are allowing women to embrace their sexuality and engage with men on their own terms. If those terms include the exchange of cash for sexual entertainment between consenting adults, then there is little argument as to what harm such activities has on society overall. Certainly, legal prostitution couldn't be any more socially damaging than the divorce rate and how divorce effects the family and personal financial stability.
    I agree with everything you are saying here but the problem is that the folks who write and vote on the laws have an entirely different agenda. To them prostition is half naked teenagers strung out on crack on street corners, low-ball back page ads, pimps and human trafficking. That's what they see and that's what television news covers so that's what the majority of the public sees as well. The general public knows very little about the ladies who work under the radar carefully screening their clients and earning very good money year in and year out. For my money, the less the public knows the better. I'm sorry but, when it comes to legalizing prostitution, the debate isn't really about female sexual freedom or anti slut shaming. It's about selling sex for money and, in the USA, the folks in charge have a huge problem with that. I'd love to see the tables turned but I don't think anyone with long term political interests has the balls to tackle the issue.
    Last edited by yoda57us; 06-15-2014 at 06:31 PM.
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    Default Re: is 'Seeking Arrangements' the 'new normal' ???

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie View Post
    Of course this raises the new flip side question about what happens to the single women who 'age out' of the Seeking Arrangements pool, who never became 'housekeepers' ( ZsaZsa Gabor reference ... 'every time I got divorced I kept the house' ), etc. Maybe OurTime.com is the flip side of Seeking Arrangements.
    The women who "age out" will find the "nice guys" (ignored most of their life) wanting to settle down and have a family. Only question is, will these women settle for these "losers."

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    Default Re: is 'Seeking Arrangements' the 'new normal' ???

    Sadly, many hobbyists use Seeking Arrangement as a way to get a "cheaper" per hour escort. I wish those sugar babies knew that's what these guys see them as.

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    Default Re: is 'Seeking Arrangements' the 'new normal' ???

    Sadly, many hobbyists use Seeking Arrangement as a way to get a "cheaper" per hour escort. I wish those sugar babies knew that's what these guys see them as.
    Indeed there is a whole bunch of self-delusion and hypocrisy involved. Many would-be Seeking Arrangements SD's are indeed wishing to receive sex for money at 'discount' rates. But they are also looking for some measure of ( perceived ) 'exclusive' services via a quasi-personal relationship from would-be Seeking Arrangements SB's ... as opposed to the guy repeatedly engaging professional escorts who may have them scheduled as client #3 for a given evening.

    The hypocrisy obviously comes into play because the underlying issue of the guy paying for sex is still present. However, psychologically, socially, and hoped for legally, the SD / SB 'relationship' isn't viewed from the outside as a direct pay for play transaction.


    The women who "age out" will find the "nice guys" (ignored most of their life) wanting to settle down and have a family. Only question is, will these women settle for these "losers."
    Arguably, there is an even more basic question ... WHAT future guys are going to want to settle down and have a family ? WHAT future guys are going to actually be able to afford settling down and having a family from a financial standpoint ? If existing financial trends were to be extended, consider that 'cash' auto purchases are way down, and 'leased' autos are way up. However, unlike daily car rentals, these two options make it 'appear' to society in general that the person 'owns' the car in both cases !!! Seeking Arrangements arguably provides the opportunity to 'lease' a girlfriend with the psychological, social, and hopefully legal outside 'viewpoint' that a genuine relationship exists.

    Following the same trend, there's equal reason to believe that SB's who 'age out' ... presumably with large accumulated financial assets as the result of SD generosity over a period of years ... may in fact become future Seeking Arrangements 'customers'. After all, why get tangled up with a 50+ year old 'loser' if you have the financial wherewithal to 'lease' yourself a handsome 30 year old for a few weeks / months at a time with no strings attached ???


    As an additional comment, I would speculate that the 80-20 rule will wind up applying. In other words, only 20% of guys will be in a position to afford the expected generosity of an SD, and only 20% of girls will be in a position to offer the 'high quality goods' expected of an SB. This of course will leaving the remaining 80% of both sexes to 'their own devices'.
    Last edited by Melonie; 06-16-2014 at 07:48 AM.

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    Default Re: is 'Seeking Arrangements' the 'new normal' ???

    I also live in CA, Southern CA to be exact and I've had a similar experience. Granted, I've been treated to some nice dinners. But really, spending 5+ hours with a dude for $500 dollars is one cheap companion. I'm still a member on the site, hoping I'll find someone but my experience has been disguising and infuriating.

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    Default Re: is 'Seeking Arrangements' the 'new normal' ???

    Quote Originally Posted by yoda57us View Post
    Actually Nevada proves that legalized prostitution will never be fully accepted by the women who practice the profession. For every woman working in a legal brothel and giving half of her money to the house there are dozens more indie and agency girls working on their own illegally. Why? Because legalized prostitution forces you to give up too much control and, quiet frankly, too much money. Decriminalizing the worlds oldest profession may work (though I don't think it will ever happen in the US) but legalizing it never will.
    Exactly. The things the Nevada brothels are permitted to do would be grounds for lawsuits in any other workplace. Locking you down and not allowing you to leave the premises for weeks (can't even run to the store for aspirin or tampons), firing you if you dare step out the front door, trying to force you to have sex with customers for their minimum rate, humiliating women for contracting an STD by burning their mattresses. Yes, I've actually seen that last one happen.

    Plus they take well over half your earnings. Brothels are just legalized pimps. I would never, ever go back. I'd love to be able to work legally but it's not worth it.

    Just to add, I've heard the northern brothels are better at treating their prostitutes like human beings but my experience is with the southern brothels, which are horrible in my opinion. Even the "nice" ones. The amount of money they take should be criminal. Half of all parties, half of all tips, room and board, licensing fees, doctor expenses, if someone brings you a $100 pair of earrings, you better pay the pimp $50 bitch. They provide nothing but a shitty room in a shitty building. Ugh, it makes me angry just thinking about it.

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    Default Re: is 'Seeking Arrangements' the 'new normal' ???

    Quote Originally Posted by HandSanitizer View Post
    Sadly, many hobbyists use Seeking Arrangement as a way to get a "cheaper" per hour escort. I wish those sugar babies knew that's what these guys see them as.
    Nothing new with trying to get it cheaper. Guys travel all over the world for that. European guys go to Ukraine. Japanese and South Koreans go to Philippines and Thailand. American guys go everywhere. Heck, even old American and British ladies having fun with the Haitian Brothas as seen in Heading South.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5TC8q5lSkp0

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie View Post
    Arguably, there is an even more basic question ... WHAT future guys are going to want to settle down and have a family ? WHAT future guys are going to actually be able to afford settling down and having a family from a financial standpoint ? If existing financial trends were to be extended, consider that 'cash' auto purchases are way down, and 'leased' autos are way up. However, unlike daily car rentals, these two options make it 'appear' to society in general that the person 'owns' the car in both cases !!! Seeking Arrangements arguably provides the opportunity to 'lease' a girlfriend with the psychological, social, and hopefully legal outside 'viewpoint' that a genuine relationship exists.
    Good question. Hard to say where social norms are in the long term future. However, for the foreseeable future, marriage is still what most normal people do. It's very hard to go against social pressures if one has a lot of friends and family.

    Maybe in the distant future a hundred years from now people will be having affairs with their intelligent software like in movie Her played by Joaquin Phoenix, then maybe advanced robots that look exactly like models of humans. Imagine someone who will do everything you want without ever complaining? Imagine the perfect partner. Who would want to put up with anyone less than perfect? This would be the next phase of social evolution that dooms Seeking Arrangements.
    Last edited by 1st_samurai; 06-16-2014 at 11:42 AM.

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