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Thread: how to rent my own flat when i have no proof on income?

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    God/dess audrey_k's Avatar
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    Default how to rent my own flat when i have no proof on income?

    So I've decided that come October when my lease ends I really want to rent my own place. I'm just tired of living with non-sex workers, I'm sick of being asked questions, getting weird looks, and overhearing negative conversations about me. I just want to be able to live my life and not have to worry about flat mates judging me. Also, I don't want to have to deal with renting a second place to see clients.

    But when I moved into this flat not having pay-slips was a huge issue, the only reason I got away with it was because my step dad put some papers together that made it looks like I had a consulting job, obviously he's not going to do that again. I also don't have a tax return to show them because my parents used me as a dependent.

    Is there anything I can do to show proof of income as a self-employed stripper/escort? Escorting is not illegal here, by the way.

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    Featured Member kaninchen's Avatar
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    Default Re: how to rent my own flat when i have no proof on income?

    Do you have any official paper trail for your income, like regular bank deposits? Would your current UK landlord and past landlords vouch for you? You may be able to get somewhere with that if you have good credit.

    When I moved last, I had nothing. No taxes, no bank statements, no letters from my clubs, nothing. The only reason I was able to get my apartment was good luck-- I happened to meet the property owner and he was impressed by my "hardworking bootstrapping student" situation.

    You should start looking and asking questions now. It took me four months and probably would've been longer without that bit of luck. Your best bet will be to rent from an individual rather than a company, and unfortunately you probably won't be able to get into a nice neighborhood. (Rentals in bad neighborhoods tend to be more flexible.)

    Also for what it's worth, I was very upfront about being a dancer and literally no one cared. If escorting is legal and you think it might help prove your income, you can always try that angle. That would explain your lack of documentation and escorts do have a reputation for rolling in money.

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    Default Re: how to rent my own flat when i have no proof on income?

    Can you get the club to write you an income verification letter? My club does this. Offering to pay 6 months upfront helps too.

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    Banned Melonie's Avatar
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    Default Re: how to rent my own flat when i have no proof on income?

    you can show potential new landlords your HMRC business registration, your bank statement showing regular and sizeable business bank account deposits, etc. and hope that they won't be sticklers about wanting to see actual tax returns. However, the potential new landlords are still going to want to see a decent credit rating. And, of course, lots of 'front money' can be very 'convincing' as well.

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    Default Re: how to rent my own flat when i have no proof on income?

    Does your current landlord/rental agency have studio or 1 bedroom apartments you can inquire about? Otherwise offer 3 months upfront, or have a copy of your bank statement showing regular deposits. But between now & October won't you have to pay quarterly taxes?

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    Banned Melonie's Avatar
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    Default Re: how to rent my own flat when i have no proof on income?

    ^^^ since she's now living and working in London, the OP is considered to be a 'sole trader' by HM Revenue ... and has two 'payment on account' deadlines - January 31st and July 31st ... with the tax year running from April 6 to the following April 5th. This is roughly equivalent to being considered a 'sole proprietor business' by the US IRS ... except that there are four quarterly 'estimated tax payment' deadlines - Jan 15, Apr 15, June 15 and Sep 15 ... with the tax year running from January 1 to December 31.

    But your point is still potentially valid in that HMRC may expect a fat semi-annual tax payment at the end of July that may 'cut into' the OP's available cash reserves. However, by my read of HMRC rules, new first year businesses ( started after April 6 of the current year ) are allowed to wait until the following January 31st to make their first 'payment on account'.
    Last edited by Melonie; 06-24-2014 at 10:51 AM.

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    Default Re: how to rent my own flat when i have no proof on income?

    Thanks for the advice ladies. And thank you Melonie had NO idea I had a tax bill due in a month, awesome...

    The thing that SUCKS is the timing. I'm not planning, to be honest, on dancing at the moment-- it's so slow here during the summer I feel like there's no point. So I was going to escort purely until towards the end of August, when I would get my boobs done, take 2 weeks off, take a few escorting appointments a week, and then go back to dancing towards the end of September when it picks up again. So when my lease ends in October my savings are going to be low after getting my boobs done and not working for 4 weeks and I won't have a letter from a club about my income, I'll just have my history of deposits and a letter from my landlord stating I've paid my rent in full every month on time. I mean, I'll get my deposit back from this flat as well, which was 1,000 pound ($1800) but I don't how much money I'm going to make over the next two months to have in savings.

    I'm wondering if it might be better for me to look into subletting immediately upon moving out of here-- if worst came to worse, I could stay in the place I'm renting right now for my incalls, it's my not favorite flat but it's well located and the other girl that lives there is an escort so I won't have to deal with judgmental flatmates. Then after going back to work for a couple months I would have more savings and could ask for a letter from a club-- would I also have some kind of tax return to show at that point? I just don't want to push back getting my boobs done-- I don't want to take off October, November or December, so I would have to wait until January, and that's lost income for 3 months since let's face it breast implants are going to involve an increase in earnings (even if the customers don't care I'm going to feel much more confident which will result in better sales).

    And kaninchen, I know what you mean! The first apartment I ever had I got when I was 19 and I had no credit, not bad credit, NO credit which we all know is worse than bad credit. AT&T wouldn't even approve me for a phone contract. But the agency that owned the apartment building had just fired the manager and he was super pissed off and in a "fuck them" mood and just let me a sign a one year rental agreement! lol.

    Melonie-- are these dates you're speaking of US taxes or UK taxes? Since I am a UK citizen (have a passport) is the US still expecting tax money from me?

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    Default Re: how to rent my own flat when i have no proof on income?

    ^^^ actually, you appear to be 'good' until January 31st on mandatory UK tax payments thanks to the UK 'first year in business' rule. And you won't be filing an actual UK tax return until next April.

    Unfortunately, even though you are living outside the USA, because you spent more than 35 days within US borders during 2014 you will still have to file a US tax return ... and still have to pay US / California income taxes ... on both the US income you earned before you left, PLUS the UK income you have already earned and will earn through this coming December 31st. You also still must make US / California estimated tax payments by the quarterly deadlines. However you do get a US / California tax credit for taxes paid to the UK ... so it may be in your benefit to 'voluntarily' make a payment to HMRC by July 31st so you can deduct it from your US / California estimated tax payments. Or maybe you can claim an anticipated US tax deduction for anticipated UK taxes without actually having to make a UK tax payment until January 31st !!! I'm certainly not a UK tax expert, though, so if any UK girls can provide additional info it would be greatly appreciated.

    With your 'transitional' situation regarding US + UK taxes, your idea about 'temporarily' moving into your business residence as a 'fallback position' if you fail to get approved for a lease by a new landlord doesn't sound like a bad idea. Agreed that, in terms of UK club business seasonality and higher future income potential, it's very important to get through your BA this summer so that you are able to 'cash in' when the clubs start to get busy again this fall. And having your boobs done before the time comes to go 'apartment shopping' can only help you to 'convince' would-be new landlords that they should depart from standard procedures when evaluating you for a future lease LOL !!!
    Last edited by Melonie; 06-25-2014 at 03:58 AM.

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    Default Re: how to rent my own flat when i have no proof on income?

    You will have the reference from your current flat, which will go miles with a landlord.

    If you have a lot to put down and a bunch in the bank, maybe you could play the trust fund kiddie angle.

    What jobs over there work on commission? Find some gay guys with an antique store who will let you 'work' a morning a week...........

    On a side note, are you sure you want to work where you live?....safety......head space....way out of my experience.................but old guys worry.........................

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    Banned Melonie's Avatar
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    Default Re: how to rent my own flat when i have no proof on income?

    On a side note, are you sure you want to work where you live?....safety......head space....way out of my experience.................but old guys worry.........................
    I was viewing the necessity of living in her 'incall' location as a very low probability fall-back position in the unlikely event that the OP has insurmountable problems convincing a new landlord to write her a lease on a new apartment. Personally speaking, between business account bank statements, a good reference from her existing landlord, a handful of cash, and D cups resting on the landlord's desk, I would be extremely surprised if she encounters insurmountable problems !!!

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    Default Re: how to rent my own flat when i have no proof on income?

    looks like if you earn less than 97k you won't owe any taxes on foreign income but you still need to file.

    http://finance.yahoo.com/news/non-us...195444214.html

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    Default Re: how to rent my own flat when i have no proof on income?

    ^^^ the Yahoo piece wasn't clear about the details. It IS true that a US citizen living abroad can exempt up to $97k of their foreign income from US federal and state income taxes via the 'foreign income exclusion'. In point of fact, it's actually $106k since the IRS allows 'adjustments' to the foreign income earned i.e. a housing allowance. However, to qualify for that IRS 'foreign income exclusion' ...


    (snip)To claim the foreign earned income exclusion, the foreign housing exclusion, or the foreign housing deduction, you must have foreign earned income, your tax home must be in a foreign country, and you must be one of the following:

    •A U.S. citizen who is a bona fide resident of a foreign country or countries for an uninterrupted period that includes an entire tax year,

    •A U.S. resident alien who is a citizen or national of a country with which the United States has an income tax treaty in effect and who is a bona fide resident of a foreign country or countries for an uninterrupted period that includes an entire tax year, or

    •A U.S. citizen or a U.S. resident alien who is physically present in a foreign country or countries for at least 330 full days during any period of 12 consecutive months."(snip)


    While I make sure that I personally qualify for the 'foreign income exclusion' by strictly limiting my return visits to US soil to less than 35 days per year, the OP cannot qualify for this tax year since she didn't move to the UK until April. Thus she has not spent an entire ( US ) tax year living in the UK, and she spent ~100 days during 2014 within US borders. As such, the IRS / Cal FTB is going to attempt to tax ALL of her UK income earned through December 31st as if it was earned in the USA ... less tax credits subtracting dollar for dollar against taxes paid to UK HM revenue on her UK income.

    Next year, providing the OP remains outside the USA for 330 days, she'll be able to exclude the first $106,000 of her UK income from US / California taxes.
    Last edited by Melonie; 06-25-2014 at 02:54 PM.

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    Default Re: how to rent my own flat when i have no proof on income?

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie View Post
    ^^^ the Yahoo piece wasn't clear about the details. It IS true that a US citizen living abroad can exempt up to $97k of their foreign income from US federal and state income taxes via the 'foreign income exclusion'. In point of fact, it's actually $106k since the IRS allows 'adjustments' to the foreign income earned. However, to qualify for that IRS 'foreign income exclusion' ...


    (snip)To claim the foreign earned income exclusion, the foreign housing exclusion, or the foreign housing deduction, you must have foreign earned income, your tax home must be in a foreign country, and you must be one of the following:

    •A U.S. citizen who is a bona fide resident of a foreign country or countries for an uninterrupted period that includes an entire tax year,

    •A U.S. resident alien who is a citizen or national of a country with which the United States has an income tax treaty in effect and who is a bona fide resident of a foreign country or countries for an uninterrupted period that includes an entire tax year, or

    •A U.S. citizen or a U.S. resident alien who is physically present in a foreign country or countries for at least 330 full days during any period of 12 consecutive months."(snip)


    While I make sure that I personally qualify for the 'foreign income exclusion' by strictly limiting my return visits to US soil to less than 35 days per year, the OP cannot qualify for this tax year since she didn't move to the UK until April. Thus the IRS / Cal FTB is going to attempt to tax ALL of her UK income earned through December 31st as if it was earned in the USA ... less tax credits subtracting dollar for dollar against taxes paid to UK HM revenue on her UK income.

    Next year, providing the OP remains outside the USA for 330 days, she'll be able to exclude the first $106,000 of her UK income from US / California taxes.
    I actually moved on March 2nd... does that change anything?

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    Default Re: how to rent my own flat when i have no proof on income?

    ^^^ unfortunately, no. The critical test is spending 330+ days out of the US calendar tax year outside US borders, and you missed that by a month !!!

    There may also be a 'not so dark' side. If the HMRC's effective tax rate is higher than that of the IRS + Cal FTB, then you won't actually have to pay them net tax money on your UK income ( because the size of the UK tax credit will be larger than the amount of US tax due ).

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    God/dess audrey_k's Avatar
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    Default Re: how to rent my own flat when i have no proof on income?

    So an agency accepted my offer today on a flat . I haven't passed the reference checks yet so it could very well fall through, but I am hoping that this god awful process is over. It's seriously been soul-sucking the way London agencies treat you when you are self-employed and can't offer up 6 months rent up front.

    I'm so happy. I realized the only way anyone was going to rent to me was if I could offer them a huge chunk of rent up front, so I had to downsize and look at studios instead of one bedrooms. But then I found this place that is the price of a studio but is a split level one bedroom, it doesn't have a washing machine so it's cheaper and the tenants right now are a couple that split up so the landlord is desperate to get someone in. I called the letting agent on Monday and he said that he had gotten a huge number of calls on it but couldn't view until Wednesday... 15 minutes of flirting later I got him to let me be the first person to view. I got to the agency today and he said that the tenants were being difficult and hadn't dropped off the keys so we could only view the building from the outside. He showed me more pictures of the the inside of the flat afterwards and I used my stripping skills to win him over and he agreed to let me put in an offer today before anyone views the flat and convince the landlord to accept it, he called me a few hours later and said she had accepted it.

    I had to offer him 4 months rent up front, plus a 6 week deposit, and agree to go on a payment schedule where I will pay the rent in 4 month installments 2 months early. Seriously, who besides an escort or a stripper could afford to do that? They are so crazy anti-self employment here!

    Another funny story, I made an offer on a place yesterday and the agent called me this morning and said that the landlords were concerned that I might be a prostitute, but that he was good at spotting red flags and I seemed like a lovely young girl and could I show him proof that I had graduated from college? Because hookers don't graduate from college. They ended up accepting my offer, the only time the stupid sex worker stereotype has worked in my favor! But it honestly really pissed me off.

    I'm just lucky that most of these letting agents are men because I feel like the only reason they're dealing with me at all is because they like helping a hot young American girl.

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    Default Re: how to rent my own flat when i have no proof on income?

    ^^^ I'm glad to hear that you finally got the apartment matter settled. Where dancers / camgirls / escorts are concerned these days

    - 'self-employed' income is considered to be unreliable ... leading to landlord requests for past tax returns ( or other 3rd party proof of past earnings ) to verify the person has sufficient income to make the lease payments

    - 'self-employed' people are assumed to be unreliable ... leading to landlord requests for lots of 'front' money to minimize the landlord's potential losses should the self-employed tenant default on the lease ( with resulting possible additional expenses for eviction and collection )

    - real estate agents handling lease / rental properties are generally paid based on a percentage of the lease / rent cost. As such, they stand to earn 3-10 times as much money catering to a 'upscale' clients than catering to a young person seeking a bargain priced property. Thus being a hot young female client seeking a bargain priced property is better than a rough looking guy seeking a bargain priced property in terms of 'motivating' male real estate agents.

    - where landlords are concerned, having a hot young female as a tenant ... and particularly a hot young female who does not have a 'straight' job as a tenant ... can raise yellow flags on a couple of different grounds. As you encountered, landlords may be concerned that the money earned by that hot young female who does not have a 'straight' job may in fact come from 'illegal' activities ... or at least activities which would be considered undesirable by the landlord and other tenants. On the flip side, landlord's wives etc. may have concerns about hot young female tenants drawing undue attention from the husband.
    Last edited by Melonie; 08-14-2014 at 09:53 AM.

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    Default Re: how to rent my own flat when i have no proof on income?

    I officially have the flat! So happy. Working everyday for 3 weeks straight was totally worth it!

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    Default Re: how to rent my own flat when i have no proof on income?

    ^^^ congrats Audrey_K ! Now you can 'relax' for the next few weeks.

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