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Thread: Is suing clubs the new normal?

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    Default Is suing clubs the new normal?

    I got a notice of class action settlement against a LA club I worked at a couple years ago for failure to pay minimum wages, illegal wage deductions, illegal tip deduction and a ton of other things.
    I'm curious what your thoughts are on this kind of thing is.

    I'm rolling my eyes reading over this notice.
    I mean you KNOWINGLY sign up for these things when you go to work at a club. If you don't like the way they run their business there a plenty of other clubs to go work at (especially in LA). I left this particular club because I thought their tip out policy was bullshit. It wasn't that hard to find some place else. And if you don't like how any strip club runs their business then maybe stripping isn't the job for you. Am I wrong for thinking these things?

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    Default Re: Is suing clubs the new normal?

    I think you're wrong, sorry. This is how change happens. Strip clubs are businesses just like any other, they shouldn't be exempt from laws concerning employment and treatment of independent contractors.

    I've seen a lot of flat out illegal things at strip clubs. They want us to be independent contractors but then they want to treat us like employees and just not pay us. It's really not ok. There's no reason for them to be allowed to get away with it.

    I'm not going to bother suing and I'll just move on because I don't have time for that but I'm glad other people are doing it. I would like to see the industry improve. I support people suing over these issues. I think positive changes would be good for all of us.

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    Default Re: Is suing clubs the new normal?

    The standing joke is that lawsuits against strip clubs are the only dancers' 'retirement fund'.

    There are several other threads discussing strip club lawsuits. Generally speaking, state courts have been much more receptive lately in allowing 'class action' lawsuits against major chain clubs. Speculatively speaking, state gov'ts have a 'vested interest' in having strip clubs declared to be 'employers' and dancers to be declared 'employees' because the change in status means that the clubs must automatically report dancer incomes ( meaning more state tax revenues ) and also that the clubs must pay state disability and unemployment insurance premiums on behalf of 'employee' dancers ( meaning more revenues for these state insurance funds ).

    Also, if club customers are bringing the same amount of money in the club's front door, but the 'employer' club must start paying money in 'new' directions i.e. an accountant, a payroll service, state disability and unemployment insurance premiums, etc., by definition this means that the club or the dancers ( or both ) will wind up with lower future earnings. Thus the only real beneficiaries of a successful lawsuit against a strip club are the RETIRED dancers named in the lawsuit ... who receive settlement money from the club, but don't have to live with the future consequences of reduced net income, stricter rules, etc.

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    Default Re: Is suing clubs the new normal?

    Quote Originally Posted by MarvelGirl View Post
    I think you're wrong, sorry. This is how change happens. Strip clubs are businesses just like any other, they shouldn't be exempt from laws concerning employment and treatment of independent contractors.

    I've seen a lot of flat out illegal things at strip clubs. They want us to be independent contractors but then they want to treat us like employees and just not pay us. It's really not ok. There's no reason for them to be allowed to get away with it.

    I'm not going to bother suing and I'll just move on because I don't have time for that but I'm glad other people are doing it. I would like to see the industry improve. I support people suing over these issues. I think positive changes would be good for all of us.
    Thanks for the reply!
    I'm definitely open to hearing other opinions and having my mind changed. I think I'm just SO personally against being employed by a strip club that I'll accept the illegal practices (not that I really know what is legal and what is illegal when it comes to how SCs run their businesses). The biggest perk to dancing for me is that I'm not an employee that is a slave to a schedule and I would be screwed if that freedom was taken away from me.

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    Default Re: Is suing clubs the new normal?

    ^^^ unfortunately, there's a flip side to that in terms of 'unintended consequences'. For example, if a successful lawsuit results in a club being deemed an 'employer' and the dancers being deemed 'employees', all of a sudden the clubowner faces federal and state 'employee' mandates. One major new potential unintended consequence creator is the ACA requirement that all 'employers' with 50 or more workers provide health care benefits for their full time 'employees'. The unintended consequences might be A) the club cutting back on the total number of dancers on the roster ( to stay below the 50 mark ), meaning that large clubs may institute mandatory scheduled shifts and a mandatory minimum number of shifts worked per week, or B. the club absolutely limiting each and every dancer to a maximum of 29 hours of dancing per week ( i.e. 3 shifts ) to maintain 'part time' status ( and therefore avoid the club having to provide mandated full time 'employee' benefits altogether ).

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    Default Re: Is suing clubs the new normal?

    ^^^ it could happen, but probably won't happen ... because the state gov't has a financial 'vested interest' in seeing clubs become 'employers' and dancers become 'employees'. Thus getting anywhere near a courtroom is very likely to wind up with that result !!!

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    Default Re: Is suing clubs the new normal?

    ^^^ not necessarily. For example, several states have already had DOL rulings that all dancers are to be considered to be 'statutory employees'. As such, any court case could result in the DOL raising that issue with the court at the same time other 'charges' were being brought against the club.

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    Default Re: Is suing clubs the new normal?

    I like being self employed, but can understand why some people are not comfortable working like that. I've worked at clubs who had both salaried dancers ($400/wk) and IC dancers. The employee dancers had certain requirements such as keeping schedules, selling X number of private dances, and doing feature style stage performances. The IC dancers could come and go as they pleased (w/ min. 5 hour shift. ICs had to be on the floor no later than 8pm), and could skip stages in favor of selling rooms.

    I think being an employee-dancer is good for building work ethic in new dancers, but it is also nice to have the choice.

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    Default Re: Is suing clubs the new normal?

    Quote Originally Posted by fionatulip View Post
    The biggest perk to dancing for me is that I'm not an employee that is a slave to a schedule and I would be screwed if that freedom was taken away from me.
    Many clubs in parts of NY, NJ, and PA want girls on a schedule, some of them four days a week MINIMUM, one of which has to be a Sunday or Monday. So girls have to come into the club like mandatory employees anyway without getting paid, instead the girls pay them. Some of these shifts are 8-9 hours long, mostly in NY and you are made to stay the full shift. And in certain clubs where the owners know there is money there, if the girl calls in sick or call out for whatever reason, they'd fine the girls in excess for cancelling a shift. The owners are clearly greedy and are taking advantage of the girls being cash cows.

    I recently stopped by a club to check out for a couple of days out of curiosity. They wanted a four day minimum schedule, so I lied and gave them a fake schedule, worked my two days and got out. As someone with shit to do, I'm unable to devote an almost full time work schedule just because some guy wants to give his club the appearance that he has many girls all days of the week. I'm interested to see how this will pan out down the road. Like Tourdefranzia said I think it would be nice if there was a choice.

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    Default Re: Is suing clubs the new normal?

    It'd be nice if clubs just treated us as ICs instead of only when convenient. That'd be a simpler solution.

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    Default Re: Is suing clubs the new normal?

    ^ exactly. in the northeast you'll likely be given a pretty strict schedule. they'll tell you when to come in, when to leave, what to dress like, who to tip out, etc. its exactly like being an employee only we PAY to be there and make their club money. its absolutely corrupt and you aren't given much choice because every club i've worked at has been like that..you can leave if you want, but good luck finding one that's any different. i have really mixed feelings about these lawsuits ( and in my state a dancer WILL win the lawsuit if she chooses to sue. the clubs settle 9 times outta 10 tho) because i'm afraid it will just backfire and instead of a house fee they will just give us 15 bucks an hour and keep everything else or something just as bad. i really wish they would treat us like REAL ICs, but its doubtful.

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    Default Re: Is suing clubs the new normal?

    Quote Originally Posted by fionatulip View Post
    Thanks for the reply!
    I'm definitely open to hearing other opinions and having my mind changed. I think I'm just SO personally against being employed by a strip club that I'll accept the illegal practices (not that I really know what is legal and what is illegal when it comes to how SCs run their businesses). The biggest perk to dancing for me is that I'm not an employee that is a slave to a schedule and I would be screwed if that freedom was taken away from me.
    I'd never want to be an employee at a strip club either. I just want them to follow the laws that apply to independent contractors and not force us to give free dances for their promotions or follow a ridiculous schedule they set. They want the best of both worlds and other business get sued for that crap. They should too.

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    Default Re: Is suing clubs the new normal?

    Quote Originally Posted by fionatulip View Post
    Thanks for the reply!
    I'm definitely open to hearing other opinions and having my mind changed. I think I'm just SO personally against being employed by a strip club that I'll accept the illegal practices (not that I really know what is legal and what is illegal when it comes to how SCs run their businesses). The biggest perk to dancing for me is that I'm not an employee that is a slave to a schedule and I would be screwed if that freedom was taken away from me.
    I worked in LA for a long time as well and I think what perhaps you aren't thinking about is that there are a LOT of clubs that require a schedule. LA clubs don't, but in London I've worked for clubs where I had to put my shifts in a week in advance, work certain nights, and if I missed a night the fine could be as high as $80. That is treating someone like an employee and just not paying them. There is no 'freedom' in that and I know there are tons of clubs in America that do the same thing because I see posts from ladies on this board complaining about their unfair treatment all the time.

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    Default Re: Is suing clubs the new normal?

    It'd be nice if clubs just treated us as ICs instead of only when convenient. That'd be a simpler solution

    Not necessarily. It's 'legal' for general contractors ( i.e. clubs ) to require that subcontractors ( i.e. IC dancers ) work between certain hours on certain days ( be it club business hours or the hours of a factory or construction site ). It's 'legal' for general contractors to charge subcontractors 'rental fees' for use of facilities and equipment owned by the general contractor ( be it a scissor lift or a club stage ). It's 'legal' for general contractors to collect a 'commission' from subcontractors on sales facilitated by the general contractor ( be it a flea market or a VIP room ).

    In terms of legal technicalities, the usual points raised in successful 'employer' club lawsuits have little to do with the above, and much to do with the degree of specific 'control' exercised by the club over the dancer's 'work'. This involves such specifics as clubs mandating a 'dress code', club price fixing of dancer 'services', clubs mandating / limiting interaction between dancers and customers, clubs imposing fines for violation of arbitrary rules, etc.

    (snip)"University of Georgia law professor Ronald Carlson, who reviewed the Pin Ups lawsuit, said federal complaints like this raise serious questions about the work status of adult entertainers.

    “Factors to be examined in distinguishing between ‘independent contractor’ versus ‘employee’ are the degree of control exercised by the alleged employer, degree to which the employee’s income is determined by the employer, and permanency of the relationship,” Carlson said via email. “Many of the cases under the Fair Labor Standards Act which deal with tips concern whether the tips a person receives will be treated as wages, and that often depends on the contract (written or oral) between performer and employer.”

    Dancers’ work hours, time and manner of dancing, attire and customer interaction with customers was regulated by the owners(snip)

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    Default Re: Is suing clubs the new normal?

    I am mixed on this. I think in some ways it is good but there is a fine layer of thin ice that must be navigated. We all knew what we were getting into but the clubs should cover us on workers comp, disability etc... we do bring their money in!

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    Default Re: Is suing clubs the new normal?

    Ive been saying this always. yes, the way clubs operate in terms of their dancers is 100% illegal. the classification of being an independent contracter is ludicrous. and the way they try and get away with absolutely everything or make things up by calling us that is ust silly. not to mention that the dancers pay most/all of the employees wages in the club by a 'mandatory tip' (something which does not logically exist, not to mention more oftehn than not you are usually 'tipping' people who did nothing/possibly did not even interact with you a single time i nthe night) and its a hefty wage at that, and is accompanied by straight profit to you the clu in house fees, yet you are still told what to do--this is not an aspect of being an 'independent contractor' like the vast majority of girls for some reason believe, and clubs do this simply because they can. However, I do not really complain about this because I am aware of and chose/choose to do it. it would not fly in pretty much any other field; it only does here because strippers supposedly make so much money and dont necessarily uphold the best perception to the population.

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    Default Re: Is suing clubs the new normal?

    ^^^ indeed, a club forcing both IC and 'employee' dancers to directly hand over tips to both IC and 'employee' DJ's, bouncers etc. is technically illegal ... and is indeed yet one more factor which has been raised in 'employee' dancer lawsuits.

    However, if 'employee' status is granted, it is NOT illegal for all tip money received by all club 'employees' to be collected by the 'employer' club, and then redistributed in more 'equal' portions back to all club 'employees' ... a.k.a. 'tip sharing' ... with those tip sharing payouts of course being taxed and reported to the IRS by the club's payroll system. Thus for above average earning dancers, 'employee' status both legalizes an indirect mandate that some of their tip money be paid to DJ's, bouncers etc., but also potentially means that some of the tip money they received be indirectly handed over to lower earning fellow dancers as well ( to assure that the minimum wage is paid to those lower earning fellow dancers ).

    Again going back to basics, 'employee' dancer lawsuits brought against strip clubs usually only benefit the specific ( retired ) dancers named in the lawsuit ... who receive a cash settlement award. Present and future dancers, as well as the club itself, usually both wind up 'losing' money once an 'employee' mandate is issued by the court ... because the same number of total club customer dollars must now be split up into more / new 'pieces' ( i.e. disability and unemployment insurance premiums, payroll services, attorneys and accountants etc. ). The one exception to this would be very 'marginal' dancers, whose very low actual earnings would be increased via receiving minimum wage payouts, shared tip money, etc.

    Ironically, the ( retired ) dancers who benefit from the cash settlement money resulting from their successful lawsuit also do NOT have to deal with the negative financial 'consequences' of actually working as 'employees' in the club they sued.
    Last edited by Melonie; 07-17-2014 at 02:58 AM.

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    Default Re: Is suing clubs the new normal?

    Quote Originally Posted by Starling View Post
    Many clubs in parts of NY, NJ, and PA want girls on a schedule, some of them four days a week MINIMUM, one of which has to be a Sunday or Monday. So girls have to come into the club like mandatory employees anyway without getting paid, instead the girls pay them. Some of these shifts are 8-9 hours long, mostly in NY and you are made to stay the full shift. And in certain clubs where the owners know there is money there, if the girl calls in sick or call out for whatever reason, they'd fine the girls in excess for cancelling a shift. The owners are clearly greedy and are taking advantage of the girls being cash cows.

    I recently stopped by a club to check out for a couple of days out of curiosity. They wanted a four day minimum schedule, so I lied and gave them a fake schedule, worked my two days and got out. As someone with shit to do, I'm unable to devote an almost full time work schedule just because some guy wants to give his club the appearance that he has many girls all days of the week. I'm interested to see how this will pan out down the road. Like Tourdefranzia said I think it would be nice if there was a choice.

    They are doing a great job of destroying the industry. Women who have other options won't take the clubs in these areas seriously. The few clubs at the top will be ok but the mid and low tier aren't worth a damn if you aren't free to develop yourself in other areas of your life. For most, this is a good part time thing but not a career choice so for all the hassle and exploitation it's easier to bartend, waitress, etc. Why tie up your life making peanuts, paying to risk sexual assault, or working to owe a club. Their business plan is unsustainable.
    “What a caterpillar calls the end of the world we call a butterfly.” - ECKHART TOLLE

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