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Thread: Rash of Lawsuits regarding 'guilty until proven innocent' Treatment of Rape Accusees

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    Default Rash of Lawsuits regarding 'guilty until proven innocent' Treatment of Rape Accusees

    This relates to a topic which has occasionally come up in different threads. It pertains to a growing 'pushback' by guys who have been accused of rape and/or sexual assault. The rash of lawsuits now being brought could also have a significant future impact on exotic dancers and camgirls !!!


    From


    (snip)in his junior year at Drew University in Madison, N.J., Parisi was accused of forcing a fellow student — one who is now a professional athlete — to have sex with him.

    He was kicked off campus and placed under investigation. Three months went by before he was found "not responsible" in a campus disciplinary proceeding. Local police never filed charges against him.

    Being accused, however, was enough to cause his world to collapse. Now he is suing Drew for assuming he was guilty from the outset and treating him as such until it was determined he was innocent.

    He is also suing his accuser and her boyfriend at the time, claiming they concocted the false allegation to preserve their relationship. The Washington Examiner has chosen not to publish their names.(snip)

    (snip)Parisi is one of at least 30 men who are striking back against campus rules on sexual assault that deny them due process by assuming their guilt. Their ranks have quadrupled since 2011.

    This reversal of one of the bedrock principles of the American justice system stems from a bizarre interpretation of the Title IX provision in the Education Amendments of 1972 designed to protect women from discrimination.

    The interpretation has been forced on universities by the Obama administration, and it thrives on many American college campuses, thanks to politically correct cultures that take women's words at face value while assuming the worst about men.

    Elizabeth Price Foley, a Florida International University law professor, described the problem with the interpretation of Title IX as benefiting women at the expense of men in a “he said/she said” situation.

    “The Department of Education under the Obama administration has adopted shockingly broad new guidelines under Title IX that not only encompass off-campus behavior — that should be no business of a college or university — but also require the use of a low ‘preponderance of the evidence’ standard for sexual assault claims,” Price Foley told the Examiner.

    “The individuals who hear these claims are generally predisposed to find in favor of a female accuser, and young men are sometimes severely punished by colleges and universities based on little more than a bare accusation made by someone whose memory of events is questionable,” she added.

    Parisi considers himself lucky because he was found not guilty, which is not the norm in these cases.

    His lawyers, Solomon Rubin, Andrew Miltenberg and Kimberly Lau — who are representing at least three of the 30 men who have filed lawsuits — say they get multiple phone calls every week from college students whose due process rights were violated after being accused of sexual assault on campus. Unlike Parisi, however, most are found guilty by their universities.

    “It’s a delicate situation for everyone, but that doesn’t justify totally disregarding his rights, his health, his emotional health, his well-being on campus,” Lau told the Examiner.

    “He’s a student, too, just as much as the other two. And he was treated as guilty from the start. And that’s the problem,” Lau added.

    Parisi's lawsuit accuses the university of sex discrimination and violating its own guidelines on conducting investigations. He also claims the university failed to investigate whether his accusers deliberately filed a false report.(snip)


    This recent rash of 30 lawsuits brought by guys accused of rape and/or sexual assault are the arguable aftermath of the recent Duke Lacross Players and Dominic Strauss-Kahn cases. As you probably recall, in those cases the guy was falsely accused of rape. LE took the guys into custody, and mainstream media reported the rape charges immediately, causing resulting 'significant and irreversible damage' to the accused guys. However, after the 'discovery' process was completed in preparation for trial, in both cases it was discovered that the charges were bogus ... and brought by a girl with an 'adult' industry background. However, it was also officially noted that the mere accusation of rape / sexual assault, and the resulting negative media publicity, had in fact caused 'significant and irreversable damage' to the guys who were bogusly accused ... damage that neither the court nor the bogus accuser could 'make whole'.

    At the core of the significant and irreversible damage issue was / is the present system of 'prosecution'. Campus / City law enforcement is essentially required to presume that the accused guy is guilty, often based solely on the word of the accuser in the absence of 'hard evidence' or 3rd party witnesses. Rape shield laws prevent the accused guy from 'confronting his accuser' until the decision has already been made to take action / bring charges ( with resulting mainstream media publicity, which immediately causes the significant and irreversible damage ).

    The recent rash of 30 lawsuits all attempt to change the present system of 'prosecution'. They attempt to require Campus / City LE to treat the accuser and accused equally ... with the hoped for result being that the accuser will be as thoroughly investigated as the accused BEFORE action will be taken / charges will be brought against the accused. And that will mean that an accuser who has an 'adult' industry background may no longer be able to successfully bring rape and/or sexual assault charges in the absence of 'hard evidence' or 3rd party witness corroboration that said rape and/or sexual assault was truly a case of rape and/or sexual assault ... because the College / City will be exposing themselves to liability for the significant and irreversible damage which is created the second the College / City LE takes action against the accused for rape and/or sexual assault.

    The obvious concern is that, if these changes to the present system of 'prosecution' go as the 30 lawsuits hope, any future rape and/or sexual assault complaint made by an exotic dancer or camgirl, in the absence of 'hard evidence' ( like a security tape ) or 3rd party witness corroboration, is going to immediately raise LE suspicion that the complaint is bogus. Even with DNA evidence etc., the accused guy will be able to make the case that the accusations stem from a 'pay for play' situation gone wrong etc. As such, Colleges and Cities are highly unlikely to expose themselves to hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of 'significant and irreversible damage' lawsuits by actually taking action / bringing charges against the accused guy based on a 'he said / she said' situation involving a girl with an 'adult' industry background.
    Last edited by Melonie; 08-12-2014 at 08:13 AM.

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    Default Re: Rash of Lawsuits regarding 'guilty until proven innocent' Treatment of Rape Accus

    The pendulum must swing too far the other way before it finds a center. Sad but true. We as a society have made progress in prosecuting rapists and protecting victims - progress, but not a perfect solution - and this has resulted in false accusations getting further than they should.

    The dichotomy being, that the victimization of victims wasn't necessarily the result of a patriarchal system (as often portrayed) as much as an unfortunate side effect of our "innocent until proven guilty" system. We need a good middle ground, and this curernt situation highlights the fact that we haven't done so yet.

    I say this as someone who has been falsly accused of rape on 4 separate occasions - only one of which became serious, and that was defused easily enough. Still - it's scary as hell.

    It's a tough issue.

    I know this won't be a popular view, but I strongly believe that the solution lies in coming down REALLY hard on false accusers. It'll be a lot easier to make the laws pro-victim for REAL cases if false cases become far less common. If someone claiming rape knows they're facing 5 years minimum for lying, I bet there'll be a lot fewer false accusations.

    Note that I believe this in teh interest of better protecting real victims and prosecuting rapists, period. People that make false claims are hurting real rape victims just as badly as the actual rapists out there.

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    Default Re: Rash of Lawsuits regarding 'guilty until proven innocent' Treatment of Rape Accus

    the solution lies in coming down REALLY hard on false accusers. It'll be a lot easier to make the laws pro-victim for REAL cases if false cases become far less common. If someone claiming rape knows they're facing 5 years minimum for lying, I bet there'll be a lot fewer false accusations.

    Note that I believe this in the interest of better protecting real victims and prosecuting rapists, period. People that make false claims are hurting real rape victims just as badly as the actual rapists out there.

    My own concerns are more focused ... i.e. that, in the absence of 'hard evidence' or 3rd party witness corroboration, genuine cases of rape and/or sexual assault against exotic dancers and camgirls are now likely to be 'farted off' if this rash of lawsuits succeeds in obtaining 'equal treatment' for alleged rape victims as well as alleged rapists. There will now be way too much financial 'exposure' on the part of a College, City, or whatever, if they take the word of a 'stripper' over the word of a 'regular guy' and take action.

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    Default Re: Rash of Lawsuits regarding 'guilty until proven innocent' Treatment of Rape Accus

    Oh I agree on that note - but really, hasn't that always been the case? As soon as an accuser is discovered to be an adult worker of ANY kind, it's assumed that she was a prostitute and the case gets very little real investigation.

    This is already echoed in the GLARINGLY horrible fact that a stripper defending herself against sexual assault in a club is usually fired and/or charged with assault. Dancer is giving a legal dance, guy grabs her and shoves his hand down her g-string, dancer elbows him in the face and breaks his nose - girl gets fired and guy sues the club. What SHOULD happen is girl is whisked away and calmed down and the guy leaves in cuffs for sexual assault and attempted rape.

    Until this is fixed, the "outside the club" views are an even bigger fish that is gonna be a long time in frying.

    EDIT - re the second bit - don't I know it. They've already come up in one run in with LE. The most recent one involved a 600 word rant on FB that was seen by hundreds of people - and we all know that FB info can be mined in background searches. This terrifies me. I contacted lawyers and police in her area and seriously looked into filing slander charges. I ended up dropping it becauseit was gonna cost me $8k in legal fees to get it taken down and I just don't have it. I saved every scrap of interaction with the girl in case I ever have to defend myself though - thankfully there's a LOT of it (thousands of text messages, FB messages, diary entries and emails made from my computers, etc). Still - it worries me. A lot.

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    Default Re: Rash of Lawsuits regarding 'guilty until proven innocent' Treatment of Rape Accus

    Suck we have so many liars, scammers, and dishonest people that concoct these schemes claiming they were victimized - making it hard for the people who have really been victims of rape.

    They should definitely be punished and serve jail time or pay hefty fines.

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    Default Re: Rash of Lawsuits regarding 'guilty until proven innocent' Treatment of Rape Accus

    I say this as someone who has been falsely accused of rape on 4 separate occasions - only one of which became serious, and that was defused easily enough. Still - it's scary as hell.
    Well, for better or worse, those ( false ) accusations are still floating around in various LE and news media databases. That could be 'damaging' in and of itself had you attempted to pursue particular career paths.


    This is already echoed in the GLARINGLY horrible fact that a stripper defending herself against sexual assault in a club is usually fired and/or charged with assault. Dancer is giving a legal dance, guy grabs her and shoves his hand down her g-string, dancer elbows him in the face and breaks his nose - girl gets fired and guy sues the club. What SHOULD happen is girl is whisked away and calmed down and the guy leaves in cuffs for sexual assault and attempted rape.
    No argument on this point. 'Equal treatment' should cut both ways. But, as you point out, when LE is aware that the female is a 'stripper', they typically make assumptions which would not be made had the female been a 'regular girl'. And the intent of this rash of lawsuits is to force Colleges and Cities to investigate whether or not the accuser is a 'stripper' before they even think about taking the accusations seriously.

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    Default Re: Rash of Lawsuits regarding 'guilty until proven innocent' Treatment of Rape Accus

    Ack - you moved your 2nd comment after I edited to reply to it, LOL

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    Default Re: Rash of Lawsuits regarding 'guilty until proven innocent' Treatment of Rape Accus

    ^^^ sorry ... I'll stop racing you on edits

    The most recent one involved a 600 word rant on FB that was seen by hundreds of people - and we all know that FB info can be mined in background searches. This terrifies me. I contacted lawyers and police in her area and seriously looked into filing slander charges. I ended up dropping it because it was gonna cost me $8k in legal fees to get it taken down and I just don't have it.
    Indeed, how many lucrative job opportunities have you been denied because the prospective employer turned up past ( bogus ) rape accusations, and 'accidentally' shit canned your resume as a result of a background search turning up those social media comments / news reports ? This sort of thing is precisely the 'significant and irreversible damages' that the rash of lawsuits would allow ( falsely ) accused rapists to sue Colleges and Cities for monetary damage recovery, if those Colleges and Cities decide to take action and the accused is later found to be the 'victim' of bogus accusations. Hmmm ... $25,000 per year pay difference * 40 year career, plus mental anguish etc. ... that's serious money that no College or City is likely to put at risk based solely on the word of a 'stripper'.


    They should definitely be punished and serve jail time or pay hefty fines.
    If this rash of lawsuits are successful in accomplishing 'equal treatment' changes, in point of fact a false accuser could then be potentially sued for the $25,000 per year pay differential * 40 year career which the falsely accused defendant was 'forced' to endure as an indirect result of her false accusations being acted on. Obviously this is a practical impossibility, since no girl in her right mind would continue working only to have to pay out the first $25,000 worth of her after tax earnings every year to the guy she falsely accused. More likely the accuser would be sued for all of her current assets ( followed by a forced bankruptcy filing ), with the College or City that acted on her false accusations then being sued for the big money. The guy mentioned in the original news report has already filed such a lawsuit against the girl who made the accusation against him, along with also suing the College which took action as a result of that accusation.

    Of course, this possibility would only add to the dilemma for exotic dancers or camgirls who were genuine rape victims to make a report ... because, even if they were truly raped, if a jury finds the accused rapist innocent ( based on the paradigm that the accuser is a 'stripper' plus a lack of 'hard evidence' or 3rd party witnesses to prove that the sex wasn't consensual or 'pay for play' as the accused will claim ) the girl could still be subject to a damage recovery lawsuit by the ( now legally exonorated ) accused rapist. Thus, if this rash of lawsuits are successful, dancers and camgirls would potentially be putting all of their personal assets at risk by making an official report of a rape which is acted on, but which later results in the accused NOT being found guilty of rape.

    However, as pointed out earlier, because of the resulting financial 'exposure' of Colleges and Cities who do take action, it is much more probable that a future rape report filed by an exotic dancer or camgirl will simply be 'farted off' in the absence of 'hard evidence' or 3rd party witnesses. Thus the future 'real world' outcome is likely to be A. the exotic dancer or camgirl decides not to make a report, and the rapist escapes consequences, or B. the exotic dancer or camgirl decides to make a report - subjecting the exotic dancer or camgirl to a personal investigation - leading the College or City LE to decide not to take action based on the girl's 'adult' industry background greatly reducing the probability of the accused actually being found guilty, and the rapist also escapes consequences. THIS is the reason for my concern over this recent rash of lawsuits !!!
    Last edited by Melonie; 08-12-2014 at 10:48 AM.

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    Default Re: Rash of Lawsuits regarding 'guilty until proven innocent' Treatment of Rape Accus

    Solution - arm yourself and shoot would-be rapists.

    Sadly, I'm not being the slightest bit sarcastic.

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    Default Re: Rash of Lawsuits regarding 'guilty until proven innocent' Treatment of Rape Accus

    ^^^ indeed, a 'dead' rapist can't file a lawsuit for damages. But a 'wounded' rapist can. So aim carefully LOL !


    I'll also add the personal speculation that both key aspects ... i.e. discovering that a particular girl has an 'adult' industry background, and the indirect infliction of 'serious and irreparable damages' upon guys accused of rape ( or any other serious crime for that matter ) are the direct result of the increasing 'accessibility' of personal details to LE, to prospective employers, etc. Prior to the advent of internet searches, the fact that a particular guy was accused of rape, but was not charged or was charged but later found innocent, would have been buried deep in a LE database or buried in the paper / microfilm archive of a local newspaper. Thus prospective employers etc. would have no way of becoming aware of such accusations / charges unless the particular guy told them about it. Today, of course, a totally different situation exists ... thanks to internet searches of social media, online archives of local news media, etc. ... thus the potential for instant 'damage'. As such, we may see more legal efforts like the 30 accused rapist lawsuits ... which attempt to deal with this new potential for instant 'damage' being caused by an unproven accusation / charge.
    Last edited by Melonie; 08-12-2014 at 11:03 AM.

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    Default Re: Rash of Lawsuits regarding 'guilty until proven innocent' Treatment of Rape Accus

    I honestly have no idea how to solve such a problem. Do you follow one of our most important mantras of "innocent until proven guilty" completely and risk letting the person assault more victims or do you potentially take away the fundamental rights of innocent people in an attempt to protect others.

    This is why false accusers should get the full sentence the person they accused would have gotten. But instead they get a slap on the wrist.

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    Default Re: Rash of Lawsuits regarding 'guilty until proven innocent' Treatment of Rape Accus

    Do you follow one of our most important mantras of "innocent until proven guilty" completely and risk letting the person assault more victims or do you potentially take away the fundamental rights of innocent people in an attempt to protect others.
    Indeed. However, of all of the major crimes, rape is the only one where the word of a single accuser can and has resulted in convictions in the absence of 'hard' evidence and/or 3rd party witness corroboration. What the 30 lawsuits are attempting to achieve is 'equal treatment' of testimony from the accuser and the accused. So if this comes to pass, what happens when a 'stripper' reports that she was raped, while the accused responds that she had offered sex / agreed to a pay for play arrangement and, for whatever reason, had chosen to claim rape after the consensual sex / pay for play exchange was completed. Neither can be proven conclusively in the absence of 'hard' evidence or 3rd party corroboration.

    For every other major crime accusation, today LE cannot hold the accused for more than X hours ... and certainly can't move forward with charges ... based on such 'he said / she said' circumstantial evidence alone. So if the 30 lawsuits do achieve 'equal treatment' of testimony, what is likely to happen in the above situation ? The DA or Grand Jury ( if matters go that far ) are likely to dismiss the charge ... based on the 'reasonable doubt' that the 'stripper' had indeed agreed to consensual sex or pay for play, and based on the new development that the City could be sued for hundreds of thousands of dollars if the accused is prosecuted but found not guilty !!!

    As to striking a balance between individual rights and 'protecting the public', recent court decisions regarding the mentally ill have established a fairly clear precedent in this regard. If a mentally ill person cannot be 'restricted' on the basis of a doctor's opinion that they represent a heightened risk of committing a violent crime, an accused rapist should not be 'restricted' on the basis of one uncorroborated accuser's 'opinion' ... well, that's the point which the 30 accused rapist lawsuits will attempt to raise.
    Last edited by Melonie; 08-13-2014 at 08:35 AM.

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    Default Re: Rash of Lawsuits regarding 'guilty until proven innocent' Treatment of Rape Accus

    screw just being bad for sex workers, this is bad for women in general ( and some men). most rapists are never brought to justice!! and only an estimated 2% of rape charges are "falsified", so i think the HUGE amount of rapists going free is far more worrying and relevant. i don't feel like this is a "battle of the sexes" at all..men are even more reticent going to the police and charging their rapists.

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    Default Re: Rash of Lawsuits regarding 'guilty until proven innocent' Treatment of Rape Accus

    ^^^ Agreed that all ( alleged ) rape victims are going to have a tougher time getting LE to take their reports seriously. Agreed that all ( alleged ) rape victims will likely be subjected to background checks and extensive LE questioning as a result of making a report. Agreed that more reports will NOT be acted on ... because the new risk of a 'damages' lawsuit being brought by an accused rapist who is prosecuted but not convicted creating MAJOR new expenses for Colleges and Cities will 'throw cold water' on DA's etc. who attempt to prosecute in the absence of 'hard' evidence or 3rd party witness corroboration.

    However, in relative terms, ( alleged ) rape victims who have an 'adult' industry background would seem to have an even lower probability of having their reports acted on ... for the 'real world' reason that the probability of actually obtaining a conviction from a jury who knows that the girl has an 'adult' industry background ( thus creating 'reasonable doubt' regarding the validity of the rape charge vs consensual sex or pay for play - as will be claimed by the defendant ) will be rather low in most areas.

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    Default Re: Rash of Lawsuits regarding 'guilty until proven innocent' Treatment of Rape Accus

    Quote Originally Posted by simone87
    ...and only an estimated 2% of rape charges are "falsified", so i think the HUGE amount of rapists going free is far more worrying and relevant.
    I question the validity of this statement, no offense.

    It's disgusting the huge percentage of actual rapes that go unreported at all - but one of the biggest problems with reporting them are the false allegations. It's a lot more than 2%, or LE wouldn't bring it up so much. What worse, activists that try to bring attention to the real problem and make real progress, often include unsubstantiated and false accusations in their numbers, making them seem unreliable.

    The point these people are bringing up is that false accusers (we can disagree on how many there are) make everything worse for everybody.

    The point Melonie is trying to et to, is that the whole situation is ALREADY worse for adult workers, and that this is only going to exacerbate that problem.

    This is one of the most difficult issues facing society today from a "real solution" standpoint.

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    Default Re: Rash of Lawsuits regarding 'guilty until proven innocent' Treatment of Rape Accus

    ^at the point i am just so sick of your very THINLY veiled misogyny in just about every post i read of yours, i'm not even going to pursue this, but LE adopting new guidelines is about saving money, its not about actually pursuing the truth.

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    Default Re: Rash of Lawsuits regarding 'guilty until proven innocent' Treatment of Rape Accus

    I look at it in both ways because I've seen it that way. Years ago I was sexually assaulted at work. This guy was one of the big spenders at the club (this seems to always be the case)and grabbed me and dragged me into a bathroom. There he assaulted me orally and the owner of the club did nothing because he looked at dancers as whores. This wasn't a full blown strip club, only had dancing a few nights a week but often in the other room this guy had sex parties where women would have sex with customers. I never pressed charges because it was my word against his, but also because the club itself paid off a lot of local cops and they were usually at the sex parties.

    However, I had this friend as a child who had a brother. The brother was accused of rape and sent to prison for something like 25 years. That wasn't the end, a few years later the "victim" recanted and turns out he never raped her. What happened was she had sex with her boyfriend (not this guy) and was afraid she was pregnant so she fingered him. Said he raped her on her way home from work and she even made cuts on her stomach to look like a rape. Eventually he was released and exonerated due to DNA (one of the first cases to use DNA for exoneration). It did screw up his life though, he did ended up getting into a lot of trouble and had marital problems. I believe he eventually moved away and possibly changed his name due to the huge publicity this case garnered (at the time it was national news and he was on the national news magazines).

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    Default Re: Rash of Lawsuits regarding 'guilty until proven innocent' Treatment of Rape Accus

    One of my concerns is how the victim (using that term before proven either way in the case. Just trying to keep it simple) is treated during the investigation. I won't go into details with my case just because you never know who's on what sites, and I don't want to be identified, but I was raped in my dorm building during college. LE, a couple of the professors I had to talk to when withdrawing, and the school's administration all treated me like an absolute animal during the process. There was one police woman who was great until they decided to drop the case for exceedingly poor reasons (one example was the perpetrator had no condoms in his room when it was searched. Let's not even mention that he had a full two weeks to clean his space out of anything slightly bad before he was found, taken in, and questioned. He apparently got a lawyer the moment my report went public which was a day after the incident). Anyway, that woman was good until the case was dropped and she told me "Well, according to records, the assault didn't happen." That was like a punch in the stomach.

    I guess what I"m saying is in my and many other people's cases that I've talked to, the entire investigation was handled minimally and with very poor quality, so it made it even more difficult to make a case, and, most of the time, the case never even made it to court. And, with the rumors of "so many" false reports flying around, it seems that it's very difficult for victims to be taken seriously by LE. Especially if the victim is male.

    This was all before I was a stripper, btw. And, shortly after my incident, my school went under federal investigation for covering up rape cases along with several other schools, so I hope things get better...

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    Default Re: Rash of Lawsuits regarding 'guilty until proven innocent' Treatment of Rape Accus

    That's horrible SexedupCat. Society doesn't treat the victims like victims. I was also attacked years ago, went tocourt and the asshole judge (his name was Dennis Dohme, I'll never forget that)called me a liar.

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    Default Re: Rash of Lawsuits regarding 'guilty until proven innocent' Treatment of Rape Accus

    ^^^ indeed, horrible in both cases !!!

    However, for better or worse, those of us who have had the misfortune to acquire first hand experience with judges and courtrooms have learned the hard way that the 'just world theory' is in fact the 'just world fallacy' ... the innocent are often 'punished' and the guilty are often let off the proverbial hook. And even more unfortunate, these 30 lawsuits are likely to exacerbate what is already a bad enough situation in regard to future rapes and sexual assaults.

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