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    Default A darker look at 'playing hard to get'


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    Default Re: A darker look at 'playing hard to get'

    " “Guys like a little chase. Don’t make it too easy for him,” followed up with a feel-good, “You’re worth it, girl.”
    The unfortunate side effect of this poison is the implication that consent can exist between two people even when one says otherwise.
    "

    I just fail to see how playing hard to get is encouraging rapists. IMO, people (typically men?) are still not going to care about the other parties consent even if people were 100% honest. And there's still a huge chunk of rapists that solely get off on the idea that they're doing what you don't want them to do... I just fail to see how playing hard to get, as a culture, would have any affect on that whatsoever.

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    Default Re: A darker look at 'playing hard to get'

    All I want to say is all of the times I've ever slept with a girl on the first date, I've never lost any respect for her...she wants it, so do I - seems to me we are on equal ground, if she's dirty then I'm dirty, who cares.

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    Default Re: A darker look at 'playing hard to get'

    Quote Originally Posted by DDuckworth View Post
    All I want to say is all of the times I've ever slept with a girl on the first date, I've never lost any respect for her...she wants it, so do I - seems to me we are on equal ground, if she's dirty then I'm dirty, who cares.
    A million times this. If you go out of your way to attract guys who "like the chase" what do you think is going to happen once the chase is over?
    "Well done. Here are the test results: You are a horrible person. I'm serious, that's what it says: 'A horrible person.' We weren't even testing for that."

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    Default Re: A darker look at 'playing hard to get'

    Why are these articles always about what women do to propagate a mans bad behavior like we're personally responsible for his lack of impulse control and inner demons? The message I see here is men are entitled and we as women are supposed to walk a fine line within those rules to avoid what is already coming to us. It's not like men don't know the rules and I'm tired of them using this type of thinking as displayed in this article as their excuse. They know what's up. This tactic of playing dumb so I don't have to do the dishes (shrug my responsibilities as a man) is so damn old and I can't believe people are still falling for it! Yes, they know it's wrong. They also know, "No" means "No". They also know when the words yes and no are being used interchangeably. Unless they are not neuro typical, this is nothing less than a reinforcement that women take the responsibility.


    This article seems more like an agenda, therefore, I'm putting on a tinfoil hat.

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    Default Re: A darker look at 'playing hard to get'

    Men act the way they believe a woman expects him to act. I didn't say, "wants", I said expects. If you take this article at face value and apply it to your everyday life then you have set yourself up to expect men to treat you badly. This article is telling us we as women need to watch our behavior and if we make a mistake which is absolutely inevitable because we're walking a tightrope, then we are to take the blame and overlook the fact that he picked you out for a reason. Men pick up on which women will tolerate abuse and they will put a target on your forehead. They can pick you out just like you can pick out the smell of a full wallet.

    How many times have you been in a club where a man has behaved badly only because you are in the club dancing for your life? He went in there with an expectation. You're a whore, and he can treat you the way he can't treat his wife/girlfriend. He believed he could treat you like less of a person as compared to his girlfriend or wife because his expectation is that you will allow it. What happens when you square him up and let him know he's crossed the line? You set him straight with your boundaries and rules. Now suddenly, you aren't just a club girl. You're a bitch because you defied his expectations, and not because you did something wrong but because HE did.

    The question is, do you get fired for being a "bitch" and maintaining your personal comfort level or does he get removed from the club for his bad behavior? If the club is going to fire you, then this is not a club you should be working in.

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    Default Re: A darker look at 'playing hard to get'

    Quote Originally Posted by Airrrie2 View Post
    Men act the way they believe a woman expects him to act. I didn't say, "wants", I said expects. If you take this article at face value and apply it to your everyday life then you have set yourself up to expect men to treat you badly. This article is telling us we as women need to watch our behavior and if we make a mistake which is absolutely inevitable because we're walking a tightrope, then we are to take the blame and overlook the fact that he picked you out for a reason. Men pick up on which women will tolerate abuse and they will put a target on your forehead. They can pick you out just like you can pick out the smell of a full wallet.

    How many times have you been in a club where a man has behaved badly only because you are in the club dancing for your life? He went in there with an expectation. You're a whore, and he can treat you the way he can't treat his wife/girlfriend. He believed he could treat you like less of a person as compared to his girlfriend or wife because his expectation is that you will allow it. What happens when you square him up and let him know he's crossed the line? You set him straight with your boundaries and rules. Now suddenly, you aren't just a club girl. You're a bitch because you defied his expectations, and not because you did something wrong but because HE did.

    The question is, do you get fired for being a "bitch" and maintaining your personal comfort level or does he get removed from the club for his bad behavior? If the club is going to fire you, then this is not a club you should be working in.
    THIS!!!!!!!!

    & I personally feel many men cannot deal with the modern Westernized world as it is now (where women have almost equal rights to men.) They just cannot deal with feeling marginalized (whether they are or not.)

    edit to add- keep in minde waayyy back in the day (like your grandmother's day) women who were raped by suitors never said anything b/c the social consequences were too dangerous (at best she would be viewed as "damaged goods" and at worst labeled a whore who was trying to backpedal out of "making" the man attack her.) This is also how "Shotgun Weddings" happened...to protect the woman's honor, the rapist became a husband.

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    Default Re: A darker look at 'playing hard to get'

    Yup! I believe this article was either written by a man whose agenda is to leave women who haven't come in to themselves yet with a very confused message, or by a woman who has not yet come into herself and is still very confused by the day to day FAIL message we're intended to be receiving. Somebody needs a wake up call, whoever it is!

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    Default Re: A darker look at 'playing hard to get'

    I believe in honesty, and I don't like this idea of playing hard to get. My experience has been the men who are truly worth it give up if you tell them no and only the creeps keep pursuing because they believe "no means yes".

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    Default Re: A darker look at 'playing hard to get'

    Quote Originally Posted by Airrrie2 View Post
    Why are these articles always about what women do to propagate a mans bad behavior like we're personally responsible for his lack of impulse control and inner demons? The message I see here is men are entitled and we as women are supposed to walk a fine line within those rules to avoid what is already coming to us. It's not like men don't know the rules and I'm tired of them using this type of thinking as displayed in this article as their excuse. They know what's up. This tactic of playing dumb so I don't have to do the dishes (shrug my responsibilities as a man) is so damn old and I can't believe people are still falling for it! Yes, they know it's wrong. They also know, "No" means "No". They also know when the words yes and no are being used interchangeably. Unless they are not neuro typical, this is nothing less than a reinforcement that women take the responsibility.


    This article seems more like an agenda, therefore, I'm putting on a tinfoil hat.

    Actually, the reason I posted this article was bc, as I read it, the author was commenting on the very reason that creeps feel it's ok to keep pushing a person's boundaries, sm times to the point of using force. In a nutshell, the pursuer feels he is being tested (whether that is the case or not) & gets pissed when he feels he's 'earned the prize' but the prize doesńt come.

    I don't agree w/ slut-shaming or any such 'she asked for it' mentality. I also believe, as Kelly commented, in being honest. I have nvr really understood the 'playing hard to get' mentality (whether it's men or women employing it) bc I see that as playing games that, at best, mucks up communication bc one or botht parties is not being honest abt their interest in the other. At worst, sm1 takes the concept too far when the other person really, truly means NO, thinking if they push hard enough they will turn No into Yes.

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    Default Re: A darker look at 'playing hard to get'

    Quote Originally Posted by Aniela View Post
    Actually, the reason I posted this article was bc, as I read it, the author was commenting on the very reason that creeps feel it's ok to keep pushing a person's boundaries, sm times to the point of using force. In a nutshell, the pursuer feels he is being tested (whether that is the case or not) & gets pissed when he feels he's 'earned the prize' but the prize doesńt come.

    I don't agree w/ slut-shaming or any such 'she asked for it' mentality. I also believe, as Kelly commented, in being honest. I have nvr really understood the 'playing hard to get' mentality (whether it's men or women employing it) bc I see that as playing games that, at best, mucks up communication bc one or botht parties is not being honest abt their interest in the other. At worst, sm1 takes the concept too far when the other person really, truly means NO, thinking if they push hard enough they will turn No into Yes.

    I agree with the majority of what you said. I personally struggle with the whole, "hard to get mentality" thing. It looks too much like a label to me. All women have different trust levels and comfort levels. Everyone has walls and barriers. Some are higher than others. I think my struggle with the phrase has to do with men AND WOMEN who can't respect boundaries.

    I personally am a "hard to get" woman. Not because I am playing a game or even because I am actually hard to get, but because there's always something the RIGHT man can say that creates magic that the WRONG man can't. There are some people whom you click with and some you don't. If there are men and women out there who don't have the capacity to arrive at this plane of thinking along with me, then I am am right to continue to be "hard to get". Honesty is to self as is to others.

    Editing to add that if some el creepo believes my "hard to get" ness is because I'm actually saying yes when I say no or because I'm playing some kind of game, has issues which are not my problem or my fault. If someone doesn't get the clear message I'm sending, then I'll let the guys on the other end of 911 send that message for me.

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    Default Re: A darker look at 'playing hard to get'

    Quote Originally Posted by GlamourRouge View Post
    " “Guys like a little chase. Don’t make it too easy for him,” followed up with a feel-good, “You’re worth it, girl.”
    The unfortunate side effect of this poison is the implication that consent can exist between two people even when one says otherwise.
    "

    I just fail to see how playing hard to get is encouraging rapists. IMO, people (typically men?) are still not going to care about the other parties consent even if people were 100% honest. And there's still a huge chunk of rapists that solely get off on the idea that they're doing what you don't want them to do... I just fail to see how playing hard to get, as a culture, would have any affect on that whatsoever.
    It doesn't encourage rape. It makes it easier for rapists to use the "she wanted it" excuse to justify their actions. It makes it easier for others to look at the situation and agree with the rapist.

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    Default Re: A darker look at 'playing hard to get'

    There has to be a better way to teach boys than anything this article is suggesting.

    The problem with No means No, is that in reality enough women play the "I'm not a slut card" on auto-pilot even while wanting to sleep with their date to give the "No means Yes" cliche some credit. This is so well known and so common that their are initialisms for it. What a refreshing world it would be if women actually said what they mean and mean what they say in the world of sex and relationships.

    I am willing to bet you can find a 20:1 ratio of guys who have had this experience. Girl is at guys place - guy makes a move - she says no - guy backs off - she doesn't leave, she stays the night or at least very late chatting guy up - then dumps him for being "too nice". Alternatively she makes the guy one of her "friends" because he is a beta male but great to talk to, i.e. not a candidate for a sexual relationship. Again, so common there is a term for it.

    So I just don't think most of what I hear on rape prevention is practical, or realistic about either female sexuality, and especially not realistic about how women behave when being chased by men including ones they are attracted to. There has to be a better message that doesn't confuse people even more by pretending that some alternate reality exists where women don't expect to be chased and love sex more than men, and guys aren't ultimately looking for regular sex first and a companion second as the end game to all this dating stuff.

    If I were leading some kind of crusade to teach boys how to not be accidental rapists I would start by teaching them a little about how to make a move, and when in doubt just let it go. A girl who can't stop playing games isn't worth a rape charge and a girl who can't help a guy out a little by reciprocating enough to show interest deserves to be a little frustrated when guys don't get it and give up. I don't really know what I would tell my girls if I was a father. Maybe it would be kind of the flip side to what I would tell boys. Either help the guy out a little if it is really what you want, or be firm, don't mince words and get out of there.

    Long, controversial I am sure but by two cents anyway.
    Last edited by invibe; 08-25-2014 at 03:00 PM.

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    Default Re: A darker look at 'playing hard to get'

    Long and controversial?....no that is not really what came to my mind when i read that.



    "So I just don't think most of what I hear on rape prevention is practical"

    Practical? um....I trying to rack my brain on how to dumb down "No means no," but something tells me a group of people still wont understand it. Its not that they CANT understand it....its just that they dont want to. That group of people.......rapists.



    "Accidental rapists?"

    You have to be fucking kidding me.

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    Default Re: A darker look at 'playing hard to get'

    Quote Originally Posted by invibe View Post
    What a refreshing world it would be if women actually said what they mean and mean what they say in the world of sex and relationships.
    We're telling you right here in this thread the same thing women have been telling you to your face your whole life. We are saying what we mean and meaning what we say. Stop living in denial.

    What a refreshing world it would be if men such as yourself stopped assigning attributes to the word "NO" that doesn't exist. What a refreshing world it would be if you stopped attaching your desires to words you don't want to hear as a way to cope with rejection.

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    Default Re: A darker look at 'playing hard to get'

    The context of the linked article is specifically about playing hard to get and the potential to cross the line into rape.

    Not my damn problem neither of you read it. I was being to the point and said nothing wrong or untrue where date rape is concerned . Nor is it my problem you can't comprehend that "date rape" makes up a very significant number of reported rapes.

    So why don't you read the article, then read my post.
    Last edited by Djoser; 09-05-2014 at 01:39 PM.

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    Default Re: A darker look at 'playing hard to get'

    Quote Originally Posted by invibe View Post
    There has to be a better way to teach boys than anything this article is suggesting.

    The problem with No means No, is that in reality enough women play the "I'm not a slut card" on auto-pilot even while wanting to sleep with their date to give the "No means Yes" cliche some credit.
    Yes, but even if every single woman in the world never played hard to get and no really meant no, wouldn't the instance of rape actually likely go UP because... well, rapists often get off to the fact that he is having sex with someone who doesn't want it. So if everyone was clear about what they wanted, wouldn't a rapist be more likely to strike because he knows that women that genuinely don't want it will definitely make that clear rather than saying "please stop" once and then keeping to themselves? He is getting off to them saying no and knowing she doesn't want it, so that would just add fuel to the rapist fire.

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    Default Re: A darker look at 'playing hard to get'

    Quote Originally Posted by Airrrie2 View Post
    We're telling you right here in this thread the same thing women have been telling you to your face your whole life. We are saying what we mean and meaning what we say. Stop living in denial.

    What a refreshing world it would be if men such as yourself stopped assigning attributes to the word "NO" that doesn't exist. What a refreshing world it would be if you stopped attaching your desires to words you don't want to hear as a way to cope with rejection.
    Only, this doesn't always happen, read the next paragraph. I don't pressure women for sex and never have and I frankly have never felt any need to. It was a rhetorical statement. You are just looking for a reason to be mad at a male poster and grabbed the first thing you could find out of context and ranted about it. I don't know who your post is directed at, but it has nothing to do with what I wrote. Nice one.

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    Default Re: A darker look at 'playing hard to get'

    Quote Originally Posted by invibe View Post
    Girl is at guys place - guy makes a move - she says no - guy backs off - she doesn't leave, she stays the night or at least very late chatting guy up - then dumps him for being "too nice". Alternatively she makes the guy one of her "friends" because he is a beta male but great to talk to, i.e. not a candidate for a sexual relationship. Again, so common there is a term for it.
    I have to respond to this separately. What you are describing here is called dating. A woman is at your place because she likes you. The two of you are establishing trust and a relationship. If she stays the night it's because she is still interested. If she's not ready to sleep with you its because... she's not ready to sleep with you. No ulterior motives there! You are translating your personal sense of entitlement into a meaning that is not at all related to her behavior.

    My fiance and I slept in the same bed for a year and a half before we explored the big bang theory. There was a very gradual progression. Granted, that was a bit of a long time but that was the pace I was moving and he accepted that. As a result he got the girl. Nice guy won. I have never in my life heard something so stupid as, "I dumped a guy for being nice".

    If she dumped you it's because you failed to gain her trust and to build a relationship based on more than sex. In this specific case, sex is nothing without the mind or a bond. Do you want a nice girl? I'm not conviced you do. You seem to be so wrapped up in the me, myselfserve and I in sex that you stand no chance.

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    Default Re: A darker look at 'playing hard to get'

    Quote Originally Posted by invibe View Post
    Only, this doesn't always happen, read the next paragraph. I don't pressure women for sex and never have and I frankly have never felt any need to. It was a rhetorical statement. You are just looking for a reason to be mad at a male poster and grabbed the first thing you could find out of context and ranted about it. I don't know who your post is directed at, but it has nothing to do with what I wrote. Nice one.
    I refer you to post 15.

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    Default Re: A darker look at 'playing hard to get'

    i think a lot of rapists DO use " oh she's just playing hard to get" to justify their actions, but then they will find anything to excuse their own actions and put blame on the woman instead of themselves, along with " oh she was making eyes at me, she wanted it " when you politely ask them to pass the salt, or "she was asking for it" because you had the nerve to walk down the street with your knees showing. i dont' like playing games, i will have my guard up though with new people
    invibe, what exactly is an "accidental rapist"? how the fuck do you ACCIDENTALLY rape somebody??

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    Default Re: A darker look at 'playing hard to get'

    Quote Originally Posted by GlamourRouge View Post
    Yes, but even if every single woman in the world never played hard to get and no really meant no, wouldn't the instance of rape actually likely go UP because... well, rapists often get off to the fact that he is having sex with someone who doesn't want it. So if everyone was clear about what they wanted, wouldn't a rapist be more likely to strike because he knows that women that genuinely don't want it will definitely make that clear rather than saying "please stop" once and then keeping to themselves? He is getting off to them saying no and knowing she doesn't want it, so that would just add fuel to the rapist fire.
    Maybe, the violent criminal in a van with no windows type may be encouraged by it. I have no idea what to do about those people. We don't lock up insane people in this country anymore and how do you test for that without becoming a police state.

    If we can't agree that these are not the people committing most of the rapes, that it is actually a lot more likely for it to be a guy pushing way too hard with a girl who really doesn't want sex on a date and crossing the line, then we aren't really talking about the same issue.

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    Default Re: A darker look at 'playing hard to get'

    whoops, double post.

    Okay this is a very serious issue that I do actually care about and I didn't intend to start a flame war. My position is just that guys need to be better educated on how to not cross the line without being dish rags that won't make a move. Again, in the context only of the article linked at the top. Out!

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    Default Re: A darker look at 'playing hard to get'

    There is no such thing as an accidental rapist. You're either a rapist or you're not. If the woman says no but stays the night it doesn't give you the right to force sex.

    That attitude reminds me of a few guys I went out with one time. They tried to get sex from me, I said no then they claimed I was leading them on. What I did apparently was accept a date and in their twisted minds it meant sex. They didn't rape me but I made sure I never went out with them again.

    This whole idea that a woman dumps a "nice guy" is bullshit. I don't know any woman who dumps a guy for being nice. She either dumps him because he's an asshole but thinks he's a nice guy or other reasons like she doesn't see a future. Also, when guys talk about the friend zone it usually means in my experience that the guy is trying to date above his league, the woman has no interest but he thinks if he's nice she'll give him a chance. Sometimes it happens, other times no. If a guy is friends with a woman hoping this will happen is really delusional.

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    Default Re: A darker look at 'playing hard to get'

    Not to threadjack, but yesterday I overheard a conversation between a table full of college aged males that made me think, This is why young men in America aren't getting the "abundant hot pussy" they feel entitled to/that society pushes at them via using sex appeal to sell things......Many young males are rude jerks. These guys were snickering at facebook posts on an IPhone and using terms like "she's hot" "she's out of his league" to describe women & "she's gonna be hot when she grows up" (regarding a young female teen on facebook.) Then they spoke pretty condescendingly to the waitress. My point- these guys seem to regard women younger than them or the same age as Objects. That's it. I'm sure they can fake niceness long enough to get laid once in a while but they don't care about being held in high regard by women or maintaining LTRs. & This is in the rural Midwest...I'd hate to think what the hell guys are saying about young women in more urban areas. Pop culture & the Internet has really distorted people's ideas of what is really available to them, or what is normal. ugh

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