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Thread: How would you know if there is a pimp in the background?

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    Default How would you know if there is a pimp in the background?

    I was reading through "Best of SW" about strippers who have pimps. Maybe I'm old enough to know better, but I didn't realize that this kind of shit happens in clubs. I thought that only happened on the streets.

    The reason I am asking is that I'm seeing someone OTC right now. It's only my second time, it's paid, she seems level-headed, and I genuinely like her as a friend. However she's very young (early 20s) and seems rather quite and I wonder if there is any drama going on in the background. I would leave immediately if I thought she was under someone's control. That's where I draw the line.

    Question: I don't see any fur coats and gold chains around her house -- but I'm wondering if there are subtle things that I should look for? Is there any way to bring the subject up without being incredibly insulting? Just how common is this?

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    Default Re: How would you know if there is a pimp in the background?

    So just because she's very young and quiet means there is a pimp involved?
    "People jack off with the left hand and point with the right."

    "You can check out any time you like, but you can never leave."

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    Default Re: How would you know if there is a pimp in the background?

    ^ there's just a submissive and vulnerable vibe from her. I realize that doesn't prove a thing. I'm mostly wondering how common the pimp/stripper relationship is.

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    Default Re: How would you know if there is a pimp in the background?

    'How common' probably depends largely on the area & the club in particular.

    One club I worked at briefly in Daytona several yrs ago was the most openly pimp-ridden club I have ever seen, bc mgmt encouraged that kind of thing. My last home club, mgmt had no patience for that horsehockey & told girls to alert them or bouncers if we got that vibe, or had attempts to be recruited, from customers.

    Most other places I have worked fell sm where in between these two, like they might let a guy stay as long as he spent on club/girls & didn't try to recruit; others were cool w/ him as long as he spent on the club & didn't care if he spent on the girls or tried to recruit as long as he wasn't obvious abt it.

    'Quiet + submissive' =/= being pimped, nor does the presence/absence of high-ticket items. I was pretty quiet at work, my highest ticket items were usually the boots I wore for work & I spent most of my 5yrs dancing covered in bruises … from the pole.

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    Default Re: How would you know if there is a pimp in the background?

    Short answer: you don't.

    I myself have been surprised to find out that certain girls have a pimp because they never seemed like the type or exhibited the signs of a girl that's pimped out, so there's really no telltale signs that scream "I have a pimp."

    There is no subtle way for you to bring this up and you have to face the fact that you will likely never know if she has a pimp or not. I mean, you could ask, but you will either insult her for even insinuating it if she doesn't have a pimp, and not get a straight answer if she does have one.

    The sad reality is that many dancers who have pimps don't often realize that they're being pimped out. Sometimes they're just being used by a "boyfriend" who encourages them to dance and work hard and then takes all their money.

    It's not all sketchy dudes, fur coats, and gold chains. C'mon man. You've seen too many movies.


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    Default Re: How would you know if there is a pimp in the background?

    What shanna said. Every single word.

    Cyclist, when I see clear evidence of coercion or control, such as the involvement of a man in some aspect of the OTC arrangement (she talks to a guy in the club before agreeing to OTC; a guy drives her to the hotel; a guy follows us to the hotel; etc.), then I shut things down fast. But otherwise, I have to assume that she is doing it of her own free will. Her behind the scenes interpersonal relationships are none of my business, nor is how she spends the money that she earns from me. If she hands it over to a "boyfriend" when she gets home, then that is on her.

    Do what you want of course, but there is probably no upside in trying to create drama where none seems to exist.

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    Default Re: How would you know if there is a pimp in the background?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aniela View Post
    'How common' probably depends largely on the area & the club in particular.

    One club I worked at briefly in Daytona several yrs ago was the most openly pimp-ridden club I have ever seen, bc mgmt encouraged that kind of thing. My last home club, mgmt had no patience for that horsehockey & told girls to alert them or bouncers if we got that vibe, or had attempts to be recruited, from customers.
    Interesting what you have to say about location & management. We did have a high-profile bust nearby where a pimp was living in a mansion with a "harem" of strippers. Almost unbelievable story. The club owner was absolved of any responsibility, if you can believe that.

    Quote Originally Posted by shanna dior View Post
    Short answer: you don't.

    I myself have been surprised to find out that certain girls have a pimp because they never seemed like the type or exhibited the signs of a girl that's pimped out, so there's really no telltale signs that scream "I have a pimp."

    There is no subtle way for you to bring this up and you have to face the fact that you will likely never know if she has a pimp or not. I mean, you could ask, but you will either insult her for even insinuating it if she doesn't have a pimp, and not get a straight answer if she does have one.

    The sad reality is that many dancers who have pimps don't often realize that they're being pimped out. Sometimes they're just being used by a "boyfriend" who encourages them to dance and work hard and then takes all their money.

    It's not all sketchy dudes, fur coats, and gold chains. C'mon man. You've seen too many movies.
    I hear you, Shanna, thanks. Yes, fur coats & gold chains.... ludicrous. I guess the reality is never what you think. Someone in "Best of SW" said that pimps are often handsome, charming, and manipulative. I thought that only applied to male attorneys!

    Quote Originally Posted by rickdugan View Post
    What shanna said. Every single word.

    Cyclist, when I see clear evidence of coercion or control, such as the involvement of a man in some aspect of the OTC arrangement (she talks to a guy in the club before agreeing to OTC; a guy drives her to the hotel; a guy follows us to the hotel; etc.), then I shut things down fast. But otherwise, I have to assume that she is doing it of her own free will. Her behind the scenes interpersonal relationships are none of my business, nor is how she spends the money that she earns from me. If she hands it over to a "boyfriend" when she gets home, then that is on her.

    Do what you want of course, but there is probably no upside in trying to create drama where none seems to exist.
    Hey Rick. First off, hope you're not an attorney (kidding)! I didn't see any of the obvious things that you mentioned, so hopefully she's independent. I'm thinking about my own safety when I think about pimps -- but also about violence against women. It's on everyone's mind with the Ray Rice story.

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    Default Re: How would you know if there is a pimp in the background?

    I wouldn't assume that "the involvement of a man" means that the lady is a victim of a pimp. It isn't hard to hire a bodyguard, and letting friends know where you'll be is just common sense.

    IME, women with pimps are much less likely to take basic safety precautions than independent women.
    Last edited by azaleanola; 09-10-2014 at 11:41 PM.

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    Default Re: How would you know if there is a pimp in the background?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclist View Post

    However she's very young (early 20s) and seems rather quite and I wonder if there is any drama going on in the background. I would leave immediately if I thought she was under someone's control. That's where I draw the line.
    If she is not bringing her personal business to your life, what does it matters if there's a guy (whether is a spouse, partner, pimp, father, brother, etc) in the picture? She does not owe you explanations of her private life.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclist View Post
    Question: I don't see any fur coats and gold chains around her house -- but I'm wondering if there are subtle things that I should look for? Is there any way to bring the subject up without being incredibly insulting? Just how common is this?
    Fur coats, gold chains...are you serious?! Gosh, I guess I choose the wrong pimp over four years ago!!





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    Default Re: How would you know if there is a pimp in the background?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jay12 View Post
    If she is not bringing her personal business to your life, what does it matters if there's a guy (whether is a spouse, partner, pimp, father, brother, etc) in the picture? She does not owe you explanations of her private life.



    Fur coats, gold chains...are you serious?! Gosh, I guess I choose the wrong pimp over four years ago!!
    Sheesh!! NO, I was NOTserious. That was supposed to be a ludicrous and over-the-top stereotype, added for entertainment value. I'll leave the entertainment to the strippers in the future.

    She's a very nice human being. There's a huge difference in my mind between someone who protects and someone who exploits. A pimp, by definition, is an exploiter and possibly violent. You really don't see the difference?

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    Default Re: How would you know if there is a pimp in the background?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclist View Post
    Hey Rick. First off, hope you're not an attorney (kidding)! I didn't see any of the obvious things that you mentioned, so hopefully she's independent. I'm thinking about my own safety when I think about pimps -- but also about violence against women. It's on everyone's mind with the Ray Rice story.
    So pimps forcing girls to have sex with you for money was OK before the Ray Rice story? C'mon now.

    You've seen no evidence of pimp activity, either direct (guy hanging around) or indirect (bruises, other bodily injury), but if you feel the need to inject senseless drama into your OTC situations then obviously we can't stop you. OK, so what's next? A lie detector test? Make her fill out a psych eval? Hire a P.I.? Become so intrusive and insistent with your prying that she no longer wants to deal with you anymore? Break into her place when she is not home and go through her shit?

    OR...

    You could just accept things at face value and you both win as she makes the money that she needs and you get what you want.

    Hmmm...I know which option I would pick.
    Last edited by rickdugan; 09-11-2014 at 06:58 AM.

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    Default Re: How would you know if there is a pimp in the background?

    Quote Originally Posted by azaleanola View Post
    I wouldn't assume that "the involvement of a man" means that the lady is a victim of a pimp. It isn't hard to hire a bodyguard, and letting friends know where you'll be is just common sense.
    Az, I hear what you are saying, but if she needs to consult with a male who is not a club employee before she agrees to OTC or if she is going to have some guy hover around the hotel during the event, then I have to pass. Not only for my own safety reasons, including the risk of being caught, literally, with my pants down when something bad goes down, but also for moral ones. Paying a girl who looks like she is being openly pimped, to the extent that he is approving the arrangement and even making sure that she gets to the hotel, is something that I want no part of. Maybe the situation is not what it seems, but I have no way of knowing that.

    Now I can see the value in letting somebody know where she is going, but truth be told the security benefits of having some guy hang around are limited. Remember, she is there because she agreed to accept money for sex. He isn't going to be in room. In most of the hotels that I stay in, he might have trouble even getting near the room as most of them require key card access late at night. Once a guy has a girl alone behind closed doors, she is vulnerable, especially once clothes start coming off. There isn't much that a naked, 110 lb girl is going to be able to do to defend herself against a guy who is much bigger and stronger than her if he decides to get violent. What she is really counting on, before ever getting to his room, is her judgment and her instincts about the likelihood that he would hurt her.

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    Default Re: How would you know if there is a pimp in the background?

    Quote Originally Posted by rickdugan View Post
    So pimps forcing girls to have sex with you for money was OK before the Ray Rice story? C'mon now.

    You've seen no evidence of pimp activity, either direct (guy hanging around) or indirect (bruises, other bodily injury), but if you feel the need to inject senseless drama into your OTC situations then obviously we can't stop you. OK, so what's next? A lie detector test? Make her fill out a psych eval? Hire a P.I.? Become so intrusive and insistent with your prying that she no longer wants to deal with you anymore? Break into her place when she is not home and go through her shit?

    OR...

    You could just accept things at face value and you both win as she makes the money that she needs and you get what you want.

    Hmmm...I know which option I would pick.
    Look, Rick, I didn't say that forcing girls to have sex was okay before Ray Rice. That's a straw man and you know it. If you saw the sickening video of RIce smacking his wife and knocking her out cold, you understand why violence against women is on everyone's mind.

    I have a huge *preference* for finding someone who does not have a serious BF or husband -- and if there's coercion in the background, then I'm out.

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    Default Re: How would you know if there is a pimp in the background?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclist View Post
    Look, Rick, I didn't say that forcing girls to have sex was okay before Ray Rice. That's a straw man and you know it. If you saw the sickening video of RIce smacking his wife and knocking her out cold, you understand why violence against women is on everyone's mind.

    I have a huge *preference* for finding someone who does not have a serious BF or husband -- and if there's coercion in the background, then I'm out.
    Ray Rice, to my knowledge, was not trying to pimp out his fiancée. He is just another knucklehead who can't control his temper or keep his hands to himself. You're using apples to justify why you are on the lookout for oranges. I doubt that anyone who has been paying for sex for any period of time, other than you, had an epiphany about pimps based upon the Ray Rice story. Pimps have been an ongoing issue in this business since forever and a day.

    And good luck on your "huge preference." I have learned, over many years of taking a lot of dancers OTC, that a solid % of the girls who agree to these arrangements have SOs. All you'll be doing by pushing the issue is to encourage more girls to lie to you.

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    Default Re: How would you know if there is a pimp in the background?

    Quote Originally Posted by rickdugan View Post
    Ray Rice, to my knowledge, was not trying to pimp out his fiancée. He is just another knucklehead who can't control his temper or keep his hands to himself. You're using apples to justify why you are on the lookout for oranges. I doubt that anyone who has been paying for sex for any period of time, other than you, had an epiphany about pimps based upon the Ray Rice story. Pimps have been an ongoing issue in this business since forever and a day.

    And good luck on your "huge preference." I have learned, over many years of taking a lot of dancers OTC, that a solid % of the girls who agree to these arrangements have SOs. All you'll be doing by pushing the issue is to encourage more girls to lie to you.
    Rick, I didn't say I had an "epiphany about pimps based on Ray Rice." Another straw man. It was mentioned tangentially in one of my replies. Do you understand just how exaggerated your reply is? What are we even arguing about?

    Reading through the thread on pimping in "Best of SW" might qualify as an epiphany for me. I thought the posts were pretty fascinating and well-written...the blur that exists between what is a pimp and a lover.

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    Default Re: How would you know if there is a pimp in the background?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclist View Post
    Rick, I didn't say I had an "epiphany about pimps based on Ray Rice." Another straw man. It was mentioned tangentially in one of my replies. Do you understand just how exaggerated your reply is? What are we even arguing about?

    Reading through the thread on pimping in "Best of SW" might qualify as an epiphany for me. I thought the posts were pretty fascinating and well-written...the blur that exists between what is a pimp and a lover.
    Though I question how tangential the Ray Rice reference was, I'll let it go.

    On the topic of dancers' SOs, I've always maintained that they are one of the biggest reasons, if not the primary reason, why so few girls come out of the back-end of years of dancing with nothing. I've simply see this issue too many times to count. The only girls I've ever known to sock away things for the future (property, savings) are those who have sworn off serious relationships for some period of time. But this issue is a complicated one as that requires a tremendous sacrifice that many girls just don't have it in them to make.

    But at the end of the day, this is not my problem. If a girl wants to support an SO with the money that she earns from me and others, then it is hers to spend as she sees fit. Her relationships and spending habits are none of my business, nor are they any business of yours.

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    Default Re: How would you know if there is a pimp in the background?

    Quote Originally Posted by rickdugan View Post
    Though I question how tangential the Ray Rice reference was, I'll let it go.

    On the topic of dancers' SOs, I've always maintained that they are one of the biggest reasons, if not the primary reason, why so few girls come out of the back-end of years of dancing with nothing. I've simply see this issue too many times to count. The only girls I've ever known to sock away things for the future (property, savings) are those who have sworn off serious relationships for some period of time. But this issue is a complicated one as that requires a tremendous sacrifice that many girls just don't have it in them to make.

    But at the end of the day, this is not my problem. If a girl wants to support an SO with the money that she earns from me and others, then it is hers to spend as she sees fit. Her relationships and spending habits are none of my business, nor are they any business of yours.
    Not to be Captain Obvious, but I've run into a lot of young single moms. It's something like 1/4 Million total to raise a kid these days (before college) and if you are a single mom at age 19, you've started a downward spiral that you may never recover from. Of course if the SO is essentially an infant, then your argument certainly applies.

    Edit: Is that some creative writing over in "ClubChat?" LOL! Adios.
    Last edited by Cyclist; 09-12-2014 at 09:46 AM.

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    Default Re: How would you know if there is a pimp in the background?

    I think the OP has had his question answered & the thread is getting off course

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    WWW Re: How would you know if there is a pimp in the background?

    I have been a member on here for a while and I usually just browse and don't talk much but this is an important issue to me so I feel like it's a good time to express myself in this online community and hopefully some folks will get something out of it.

    First, I want to say thank you for being concerned enough to have a conversation. This is a social issue and it's not always easy to talk about but it needs to be so that we can all evolve as a society and minimize the suffering that is fueled by our shame, ignorance and lack of compassion.

    If you have a feeling about this girl then you may be right.

    So, if you are right, what now?? What would be the best way to handle this situation for all parties involved?? I think that is a very tough question for us to answer in a general way, and as we are all individual people, each situation need be handled individually.

    Pimping and human trafficking is huge all around the world and right here in our great american cities and suburbs. The industry is now bigger than black market guns and drugs combined. Some info on this can be found at

    At the very least, I think it's a good idea to at least verify her age so you know that she is not a minor. And also, if she is in an abusive situation, let her know you care about her if you do. Love is free and conquers all

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    Default Re: How would you know if there is a pimp in the background?

    From my experience, I've known both the sad streetwalker girl who gets beaten up all the time by her gold-chains pimp, and girls who seem to have it together but allow a creepy greedy boyfriend or even husband to spend all the money and abuse them.

    As a customer, if you feel concern express it but do not over-extend your efforts beyond words or shelter in a true emergency. The women I knew with bad pimp boyfriends had corresponding issues/tendencies to be abusive and left ME (a "friend") feeling like I had been taken for a ride as a human being. It really made me hesitant to befriend other women, which hurt me in the long run.

    Just my 2 cents as an ex-dancer.

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    Default Re: How would you know if there is a pimp in the background?

    ^I provided "shelter in an emergency" to a co-worker once. There is absolutely no way I'm ever making that mistake again, as much as it pains me to say it. Some people really are just broken.

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    Default Re: How would you know if there is a pimp in the background?

    Quote Originally Posted by azaleanola View Post
    ^I provided "shelter in an emergency" to a co-worker once. There is absolutely no way I'm ever making that mistake again, as much as it pains me to say it. Some people really are just broken.
    I agree. Now that I think about it....the best thing a customer can do is stay being a customer. Once that girl is ready to break away from her bad situation on her own, she will. Tragically if she never makes it out, that is on her.

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    Default Re: How would you know if there is a pimp in the background?

    Quote Originally Posted by rickdugan View Post
    Though I question how tangential the Ray Rice reference was, I'll let it go.

    On the topic of dancers' SOs, I've always maintained that they are one of the biggest reasons, if not the primary reason, why so few girls come out of the back-end of years of dancing with nothing. I've simply see this issue too many times to count. The only girls I've ever known to sock away things for the future (property, savings) are those who have sworn off serious relationships for some period of time. But this issue is a complicated one as that requires a tremendous sacrifice that many girls just don't have it in them to make.

    But at the end of the day, this is not my problem. If a girl wants to support an SO with the money that she earns from me and others, then it is hers to spend as she sees fit. Her relationships and spending habits are none of my business, nor are they any business of yours.
    I have never understood the women who support a dead weight boyfriend/husband and this is more prevalent in dancing. I'd be curious to know why but I suspect these women have low self esteem. Having said that I did get briefly involved with a guy who did use me. He was a convincing con artist/pimp and did a number on me. I did wake up to what he was doing when he tried to pimp me out and I said no. This slimeball is on dating sites and various forums and still tries to get women to date him. In fact he was on another dancer site and contacted me not knowing it was me. After him, I pretty much swore off dating until I quit dancing. The fact that a strong person like me can fall for the trap makes me understand a bit why others do, only I did realize what was going on. I was going through a rough time when I met him and he picked up on it. I had just broken off a long term relationship and there was many other personal issues going on not to mention I had started a party agency and he convinced me he could help me with it.

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    Default Re: How would you know if there is a pimp in the background?

    How come people refer to dead beat husbands, but no one talks about dead beat wives, women who live off the avails of there husbands and often brow beat and belittle them over how much they make, spend all they're money and so on. I know this guy who not only works hard as a manager in a factory, but also kills himself landscaping, all to provide for his wife who doesn't work and his kids, and she just keeps on pushing the guy to bring in more and more money so it can be spent by others, no matter how little sleep he gets or how close he gets to losing his fucking mind.

    Oh and PS human trafficking for purposes of prostitution is no where near the size of the black market for drugs and guns. They're full of shit.

    The rescue industry is full of liers and dishonest manipulative people. Not saying I agree with forcing someone into prostitution, its wrong, but the rescue industry has a strong history of exgageration.

    Look up the naked anthropologist on the issue of human trafficing.

  36. #25
    Moderator unbeleavable's Avatar
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    Default Re: How would you know if there is a pimp in the background?

    Omega, nobody here will argue that women can take from a relationship but please understand where you are? Women in the adult industry & primarily dancers notoriously are in relationships with men who take.

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