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Thread: Cheerleaders Should Be Grateful To Make NO Money....Yeah Right

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    Default Re: Cheerleaders Should Be Grateful To Make NO Money....Yeah Right

    we, the strippers & cheerleaders who want to see better pay arrangements, better safety measures, etc can & will be easily replaced by new girls who won't 'cause trouble' bc they are too stupid or just too apathetic to see they are being exploited.
    Agreed ... but 'replaceability' is only a part of the issue in question. Unlike 'strippers', performing as an NFL cheerleader provides lots of 'perks' which can potentially translate into major earnings opportunities in the future. How many 'strippers' get free air time on nationwide TV ? How many 'strippers' get to meet multimillionaire 'skybox' fans / rich friends of team owners and players, celebrities, corporate execs etc. on a weekly basis ?

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    Default Re: Cheerleaders Should Be Grateful To Make NO Money....Yeah Right

    i still think that's wrong." the women shouldn't be paid, they should just be grateful to have the opportunity to meet lots of rich men".

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    Default Re: Cheerleaders Should Be Grateful To Make NO Money....Yeah Right

    ^^^ is it any more 'wrong' than major corporations utilizing the 'intern' system ??? Lots of SW posters have praised the idea of recent college graduates accepting 'internships' as a resume builder / stepping stone toward corporate jobs in their chosen field, despite the fact that the 'internship' earnings are near zero !!! At least the NFL cheerleaders are able to earn substantial amounts of money from paid promotions ( even though the NFL teams extract a hefty 'royalty') while building their resume's and making valuable personal contacts.

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    Default Re: Cheerleaders Should Be Grateful To Make NO Money....Yeah Right

    i don't really agree with internships either, especially considering that a girl was sexually assaulted by her "boss" but nothing happened because she was an intern and not a real employee, i think its just people in power taking advantage

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    Default Re: Cheerleaders Should Be Grateful To Make NO Money....Yeah Right

    Regarding internships in theory they are a good idea but in reality are horrible. Mostly what happens is the intern is actually working, just for free and often taking the place of a paid workers. I've done internships in college and for the most part haven't paid off.

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    Default Re: Cheerleaders Should Be Grateful To Make NO Money....Yeah Right

    Quote Originally Posted by Aniela View Post
    ^^^^ I don't think he is trying to be obtuse, at least not in the final part of his post. He makes a point that, like it or not, is pretty solid. I see it being similar to the problems that strippers face trying to resist bullshit fines & otherwise push for improvements in the clubs: we, the strippers & cheerleaders who want to see better pay arrangements, better safety measures, etc can & will be easily replaced by new girls who won't 'cause trouble' bc they are too stupid or just too apathetic to see they are being exploited.
    Thanks Aniela, I thought he was messing about for a minute there.

    I'd say his prediction of the future is his own negative fantasy that does not take into consideration all the ways consciousness can be raised and solidarity can be created.
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    Default Re: Cheerleaders Should Be Grateful To Make NO Money....Yeah Right

    Quote Originally Posted by Aurora_Sunset View Post
    This, exactly. "A lot of people want to do it" is not an excuse for paying jack shit to employees who work so many hours a week they aren't able to get a second job to support themselves. Like you said, "a lot of people" want to be professional football players, but no one says they should be paid virtually nothing and just "be grateful" that they made the team. Obviously, cheerleaders are not "as important" to the team and shouldn't be paid the millions that the athletes are, but that's still no excuse for demanding so much out of employees without fair compensation.

    Even if you can make the argument that the cheerleaders could disappear and not a damn thing would change in the football game, the reality of the matter is if you're going to create the job, have the job exist, demand so much out of the people you hire to do the job - then, you need to keep up your end up the bargain in regards to paying them like all other people doing a job.

    And choosing to do it is still not a reason for not being able to complain about it or to dismiss their legitimate complaints. People choose to be teachers knowing how abysmal the pay is, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't talk about it. People choose to be strippers knowing that they'll deal with sexual harassment at work, but that doesn't mean that we aren't allowed to get mad when someone crosses the line and actually does it. Choosing to do something, even with all the information, because it offers some benefit, doesn't mean that you "aren't allowed" to complain about the other absolute bullshit that you're subjected to and try to change it.
    Be serious. Being an NFL Cheerleader isn't a job someone gets to support themselves. It's something they do to be able to say, wow I'm an NFL cheerleader, I am so hot! They know what they will be paid going in. No one holds a gun to their heads. Even if they win these lawsuits, they may earn minimum wage. They don't deserve any more than that. There are thousands who would do it for free, or even pay for the privilege.

    Some teams don't even bother having them. They could get rid of them,and very few NFL fans would even care.

    The sad thing is that these suits are being brought by former cheerleaders who no longer meet the standards of an NFL cheerleader. Some teams may just get rid of the squads if they become too much of a hassle. These ex-cheerleaders would rather ruin it for the current cheerleaders, just for spite. Let's face it, this is just eye candy. Sheesh!

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    Default Re: Cheerleaders Should Be Grateful To Make NO Money....Yeah Right

    Quote Originally Posted by gameover View Post
    Be serious. Being an NFL Cheerleader isn't a job someone gets to support themselves. It's something they do to be able to say, wow I'm an NFL cheerleader, I am so hot! They know what they will be paid going in. No one holds a gun to their heads. Even if they win these lawsuits, they may earn minimum wage. They don't deserve any more than that. There are thousands who would do it for free, or even pay for the privilege.

    Some teams don't even bother having them. They could get rid of them,and very few NFL fans would even care.

    The sad thing is that these suits are being brought by former cheerleaders who no longer meet the standards of an NFL cheerleader. Some teams may just get rid of the squads if they become too much of a hassle. These ex-cheerleaders would rather ruin it for the current cheerleaders, just for spite. Let's face it, this is just eye candy. Sheesh!

    I am being serious. You could be totally right in that no one would care at all if they disappeared. But if that's truly the case, then they should just not bother having them in the first place.

    Like I said, the reality of the matter is if you're going to create the job, have the job exist, demand so much out of the people you hire to do the job - then, you need to keep up your end of the bargain in regards to paying them like all other people doing a job. So what if it's just minimum wage. Again, just because others want to do it, doesn't mean it's any less of a job with all the same demands of any other minimum wage job. These are adult who do need to support themselves somehow.

    Choosing to do something for some benefit doesn't strip you of your inherent human right to speak up when you're being treated like utter crap. That's the only way things change. What sense does it make to tell people to just work quietly through a fucked-up environment and system? How will that help anyone? What exactly do you think you're promoting for the good of people - for anyone - when you tell others to sit down, shut up, and suck it up because "oh well, you chose this" ??? I'm really curious what moral or ideal anyone who acts this way thinks that they are defending? Does it somehow affect you negatively if women who do a job get paid minimum wage for it?
    Don't try to win over the haters. You are not the Jerk Whisperer.

    Your playing small does not serve the world. There is nothing enlightened about shrinking so that other people won't feel insecure around you.






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    Default Re: Cheerleaders Should Be Grateful To Make NO Money....Yeah Right

    Quote Originally Posted by Aurora_Sunset View Post
    Choosing to do something for some benefit doesn't strip you of your inherent human right to speak up when you're being treated like utter crap. That's the only way things change. What sense does it make to tell people to just work quietly through a fucked-up environment and system? How will that help anyone? What exactly do you think you're promoting for the good of people - for anyone - when you tell others to sit down, shut up, and suck it up because "oh well, you chose this" ??? I'm really curious what moral or ideal anyone who acts this way thinks that they are defending? Does it somehow affect you negatively if women who do a job get paid minimum wage for it?
    I just find it interesting that these suits aren't filed by current cheerleaders. They are happy with the arrangement. They are filed by ex-cheerleaders who no longer meet the requirements.

    If it were a real job, I would certainly want everyone, obviously including women, to be paid at least minimum wage.

    This arrangement is an honorarium. It bothers me that all current parties are happy, and these suits seem to be brought by jealous, bitter women who are no longer invited to the party. It's a nice historical tradition to have cheerleaders, but if these annoying lawsuits keep coming up, I wouldn't blame the NFL if they chose to just drop the tradition. It certainly won't cost them any business to do so.

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    Default Re: Cheerleaders Should Be Grateful To Make NO Money....Yeah Right

    You clearly never cheered a day in your life. It's HARD. Not to mention, extremely athletic and they deserve to be paid, too! They don't "deserve" more than min wage? So, why do the NFL players deserve millions? What's the difference? They're both athletes!

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    Default Re: Cheerleaders Should Be Grateful To Make NO Money....Yeah Right

    Quote Originally Posted by arielbriel View Post
    You clearly never cheered a day in your life. It's HARD. Not to mention, extremely athletic and they deserve to be paid, too! They don't "deserve" more than min wage? So, why do the NFL players deserve millions? What's the difference? They're both athletes!
    Difficulty is not the issue. Look up "honorarium".

    The NFL players earn millions, because they are why we pay to watch the games.

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    Default Re: Cheerleaders Should Be Grateful To Make NO Money....Yeah Right

    Quote Originally Posted by gameover View Post
    Even if they win these lawsuits, they may earn minimum wage. They don't deserve any more than that.
    Years of training and effort maintaining the top physical condition, dexterity, and athletic ability (on a par with those dipshits they are cheering for) required to be a cheerleader, and you don't think they deserve more than minimum wage, if they even get that after all this controversy?

    Sometimes it feels like the hard core sports fans are an entirely different species.

    This is the same logic used by guys who never, ever tip the strippers. 'They CHOSE to get onstage, so I don't have to pay them jackshit.'

    I guess I can almost understand this perverse logic, because I wouldn't pay any major sports league athlete a fucking quarter to do anything at all.
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    Default Re: Cheerleaders Should Be Grateful To Make NO Money....Yeah Right

    Quote Originally Posted by Djoser View Post
    Years of training and effort maintaining the top physical condition, dexterity, and athletic ability (on a par with those dipshits they are cheering for) required to be a cheerleader, and you don't think they deserve more than minimum wage, if they even get that after all this controversy?

    Sometimes it feels like the hard core sports fans are an entirely different species.

    This is the same logic used by guys who never, ever tip the strippers. 'They CHOSE to get onstage, so I don't have to pay them jackshit.'

    I guess I can almost understand this perverse logic, because I wouldn't pay any major sports league athlete a fucking quarter to do anything at all.
    The difference is I'm paying to watch the players, not the cheerleaders. When I go to a strip club, I'm there to see the strippers, so of course I tip them and buy dances from them. They are the stars. They are the reason the the clubs exist, just like the players are the reason the NFL exists.

    The cheerleaders choose to do it for the notoriety, watching the games on the sidelines, being an insider, the whole NFL celebrity that they can be a part of. That's why women are lined up to do it. It's hardly a menial, flipping burgers job. It's an opportunity that the NFL provides a token honorarium for.

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    Default Re: Cheerleaders Should Be Grateful To Make NO Money....Yeah Right

    I'm really curious what moral or ideal anyone who acts this way thinks that they are defending? Does it somehow affect you negatively if women who do a job get paid minimum wage for it?
    ummm ... I think it's called Free Enterprise !!!

    And yes this could affect other women negatively, if NFL clubs reach a decision that the minimum wage plus cost of health care and other mandatory benefits for 'full time employee' cheerleaders prompts the clubs to drop cheerleading squads. Success stories like , , and undoubtedly countless others, would disappear as a result.


    The cheerleaders choose to do it for the notoriety, watching the games on the sidelines, being an insider, the whole NFL celebrity that they can be a part of. That's why women are lined up to do it. It's hardly a menial, flipping burgers job. It's an opportunity that the NFL provides a token honorarium for.
    indeed they did ! Not to mention 'free' media exposure, the value of an NFL cheerleader credential as a future resume' builder / business advertising advantage, etc.


    I just find it interesting that these suits aren't filed by current cheerleaders. They are happy with the arrangement. They are filed by ex-cheerleaders who no longer meet the requirements.
    An interesting point ... which follows almost exactly the circumstances of previous 'employee' status / minimum wage lawsuits brought by former dancers. The former dancers 'cash in', but present and future dancers are forced to live with the consequences.
    Last edited by Melonie; 09-18-2014 at 08:31 AM.

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    Default Re: Cheerleaders Should Be Grateful To Make NO Money....Yeah Right

    Quote Originally Posted by gameover View Post
    The sad thing is that these suits are being brought by former cheerleaders who no longer meet the standards of an NFL cheerleader. Some teams may just get rid of the squads if they become too much of a hassle. These ex-cheerleaders would rather ruin it for the current cheerleaders, just for spite. Let's face it, this is just eye candy. Sheesh!
    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie View Post
    An interesting point ... which follows almost exactly the circumstances of previous 'employee' status / minimum wage lawsuits brought by former dancers. The former dancers 'cash in', but present and future dancers are forced to live with the consequences.
    I can't help but agree. 13 ex-cheerleaders spread across 5 cities, who I'm guessing were not as successful in parlaying the exposure into future earnings, are going to ruin things for countless thousands of current and future cheerleaders, who will never have the opportunities that NFL cheerleading provides. There are already 7 of 32 NFL teams without cheerleaders and you can bet that many more will discontinue their programs if this suit is successful, not so much solely because of the money but also due to the liability and other employee-related issues that will come into play. Cheerleaders are a fun side attraction, but truth be told, I doubt any NFL team is going to experience a dip in ticket sales or TV viewership if they stop using cheerleaders.

    Sorry, but I'm struggling to see how this is a "win" for almost anyone, except maybe the attorneys and some ex-cheerleaders who will be paid what will likely be a modest amount (remember, we are talking about a minimum wage case) after settlement negotiations and attorneys' fees.
    Last edited by rickdugan; 09-18-2014 at 09:39 AM.

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    Default Re: Cheerleaders Should Be Grateful To Make NO Money....Yeah Right

    ^^^ actually, there would be a handful of 'winners' ... for example, state and city income tax agencies, state unemployment and disability 'funds', etc. as well as the lawsuit dancers and their attorneys. Also, the cheerleaders' tax preparers !


    I doubt any NFL team is going to experience a dip in ticket sales or TV viewership if they stop using cheerleaders
    In point of fact, it's probable that TV networks, as well as NFL teams, would realize increased advertising revenues if NFL cheerleaders were 'missing' from future broadcasts ( thinking additional ads from 'Breastaurants' etc. ). At the very least, the TV networks and NFL teams are unlikely to be 'hurt' should cheerleaders become a thing of the past ( otherwise the 7 NFL teams that do not currently field cheerleaders would have added them ! ).

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    Default Re: Cheerleaders Should Be Grateful To Make NO Money....Yeah Right

    Mmmm... Brestaurants.. Why do I have a sudden craving for wings!

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    Default Re: Cheerleaders Should Be Grateful To Make NO Money....Yeah Right

    Quote Originally Posted by Djoser View Post
    Of course they did. No one is denying the fact that being a cheerleader is a great steppingstone to other work that actually pays for talent and performance.

    What we are objecting to is the fact that the NFL, which is making billions of dollars off the games--and all the hoopla and commercial bullshit in which the cheerleaders play an integral role--seems to feel it perfectly appropriate to pay them what amounts to a gross insult, for all their intensive labor.

    It's the equivalent of tossing nickels and dimes at strippers onstage.

    Is that frowned upon?

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    Default Re: Cheerleaders Should Be Grateful To Make NO Money....Yeah Right

    NFL halftime shows..& sideline shows.....whether its a marching band from a nearby University, the cast from a musical singing, (one game i went to Fall Out Boy played 3 songs at halftime)..In chicago, they have a drumline at every game..all really good and talented.....

    nobody gets paid. They do it for the exposure, fun, honor..etc.

    At the superbowl this year, they were talking about charging the big halftime acts to perform...

    If any of these groups demanded pay for their performance, they would say....no thanks, we dont need you. But they WANT to do it.

    Its like the ex-Buffalo cheerleaders who filed the suit. As soon as it happened, the team just shut down the whole squad. Im sure there are 30 angry cheerleaders who would love to get back out there.

    Its probably like a hobby to most of them.

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    Default Re: Cheerleaders Should Be Grateful To Make NO Money....Yeah Right

    Quote Originally Posted by rickdugan View Post
    I can't help but agree. 13 ex-cheerleaders spread across 5 cities, who I'm guessing were not as successful in parlaying the exposure into future earnings, are going to ruin things for countless thousands of current and future cheerleaders, who will never have the opportunities that NFL cheerleading provides. There are already 7 of 32 NFL teams without cheerleaders and you can bet that many more will discontinue their programs if this suit is successful, not so much solely because of the money but also due to the liability and other employee-related issues that will come into play. Cheerleaders are a fun side attraction, but truth be told, I doubt any NFL team is going to experience a dip in ticket sales or TV viewership if they stop using cheerleaders.

    Sorry, but I'm struggling to see how this is a "win" for almost anyone, except maybe the attorneys and some ex-cheerleaders who will be paid what will likely be a modest amount (remember, we are talking about a minimum wage case) after settlement negotiations and attorneys' fees.
    Mentioning the teams without the cheerleaders made me think of something. The Bears doesn't have a team, but used to called the Honey Bears. One of my dance instructors (I studied dance for years and was quite good)was a Honey Bear. She had studied for years as well. Most cheerleaders, including those at the high school level trained for years. I was a cheerleader but really saw how they treated cheerleaders versus other athletes. I lettered in cross country but never won any sort of award from cheerleading because they didn't do that when I was in school.

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    Default Re: Cheerleaders Should Be Grateful To Make NO Money....Yeah Right

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie View Post
    ummm ... I think it's called Free Enterprise !!!

    And yes this could affect other women negatively, if NFL clubs reach a decision that the minimum wage plus cost of health care and other mandatory benefits for 'full time employee' cheerleaders prompts the clubs to drop cheerleading squads. Success stories like , , and undoubtedly countless others, would disappear as a result.




    indeed they did ! Not to mention 'free' media exposure, the value of an NFL cheerleader credential as a future resume' builder / business advertising advantage, etc.




    An interesting point ... which follows almost exactly the circumstances of previous 'employee' status / minimum wage lawsuits brought by former dancers. The former dancers 'cash in', but present and future dancers are forced to live with the consequences.
    I'm sorry but I have to agree. These law suits are the worst thing to happen to our industry. I like how woman think their sticking up for us all. NOOO. They are lining the pockets of greedy lawyers and we have seen no improvements from such suits. a strlke would fare better. On another note I find it disgusting all the fans that are more pissed that guys like ray rice and that other ass that whipped his kid are getting suspended and could care less that they should be in prision but are mad they won't be playing. Utterly disgsting.

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    Default Re: Cheerleaders Should Be Grateful To Make NO Money....Yeah Right

    Quote Originally Posted by rickdugan View Post
    I can't help but agree. 13 ex-cheerleaders spread across 5 cities, who I'm guessing were not as successful in parlaying the exposure into future earnings, are going to ruin things for countless thousands of current and future cheerleaders, who will never have the opportunities that NFL cheerleading provides. There are already 7 of 32 NFL teams without cheerleaders and you can bet that many more will discontinue their programs if this suit is successful, not so much solely because of the money but also due to the liability and other employee-related issues that will come into play. Cheerleaders are a fun side attraction, but truth be told, I doubt any NFL team is going to experience a dip in ticket sales or TV viewership if they stop using cheerleaders.

    Sorry, but I'm struggling to see how this is a "win" for almost anyone, except maybe the attorneys and some ex-cheerleaders who will be paid what will likely be a modest amount (remember, we are talking about a minimum wage case) after settlement negotiations and attorneys' fees.
    Exactly!

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    Default Re: Cheerleaders Should Be Grateful To Make NO Money....Yeah Right

    I know the Chicago Bears discontinued the Honey Bears (their cheerleaders). But. They reformed, & they still perform, just not @ Bears games. Every yr. they hold auditions.


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    Default Re: Cheerleaders Should Be Grateful To Make NO Money....Yeah Right

    Yeah, they perform at other events instead and do lots of charity work. I just clicked on their Wikipedia page and am pretty sure the director was my dance instructor.

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    Default Re: Cheerleaders Should Be Grateful To Make NO Money....Yeah Right

    Its like the ex-Buffalo cheerleaders who filed the suit. As soon as it happened, the team just shut down the whole squad. I'm sure there are 30 angry cheerleaders who would love to get back out there.

    Its probably like a hobby to most of them.

    While NFL cheering might be just a 'hobby' to a few girls, it has arguably been ...

    - the equivalent of a show business 'internship' for many others, leading to anything from TV specials to Playboy appearances to Hollywood movies.

    - the equivalent of an extremely exclusive 'dating' site for some others, providing them access to both multi-millionaire players as well as multi-millionaire fans

    - a highly advertise-able 'credential' which can provide a competitive advantage in future business endeavors

    While these factors can't be measured via a weekly employee pay stub, they undoubtedly carry a substantial non-cash value. And all of that will be lost for future girls if the Buffalo Jills / Honey Bears scenario becomes the rule rather than the exception.

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