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Thread: Cheerleaders Should Be Grateful To Make NO Money....Yeah Right

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    Default Re: Cheerleaders Should Be Grateful To Make NO Money....Yeah Right

    Jay12 here's a little rebuttal for ya'! http://blog.vh1.com/2013-09-30/baske...th-royce-reed/ There's always guys and gals who do whatever they want regardless of the rules.
    “What a caterpillar calls the end of the world we call a butterfly.” - ECKHART TOLLE

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    Default Re: Cheerleaders Should Be Grateful To Make NO Money....Yeah Right

    Quote Originally Posted by oldster View Post
    >>>>>>>>> I gotta say this thread's getting pretty heated & stressing me a bit. Which's why I keep bumpin' the 'Jack & Jill' thread.<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<


    Oh, I know, I thought Kelly was going to make it fun, but I guess she doesn't appreciate my sense of humor. Or she thinks I give lousy head.

    Oh, damn, what if I have a lousy sense of humor and I can't east pussy to save my life. Shit.

    [sob]

    I better go hang out with some strippers, they always make me feel better...............

    oh,wait............

    damn

    [sob]
    I hear you give lousy head .

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    Default Re: Cheerleaders Should Be Grateful To Make NO Money....Yeah Right

    Quote Originally Posted by Optimist View Post
    Jay12 here's a little rebuttal for ya'! http://blog.vh1.com/2013-09-30/baske...th-royce-reed/ There's always guys and gals who do whatever they want regardless of the rules.
    This link had nothing to do with the NFL. It was some "basketball wife". The NBA might be different.





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    Default Re: Cheerleaders Should Be Grateful To Make NO Money....Yeah Right

    Quote Originally Posted by gameover View Post
    We live in a capitalistic society, which runs on supply and demand. Of course the players make a ton of money. It's because they they generate billions in revenue for the NFL. They are also a very scarce resource. Cheerleaders generate insignificant income for the NFL, and the available supply is nearly unlimited. Do you seriously question why football players earn more?
    I've seen 'We live in a capitalist society...' used to justify why strippers should give cheap blowjobs many, many times here (though admittedly mostly in the blue sections and CC). ETA not that you would be so craven as to do this, gameover. But that argument has no moral basis whatsoever, and neither does this.


    No one is questioning the fact that rabid sports fans make this travesty of justice possible, the same way they make it possible for a convicted torturer and murderer of innocent animals to be cheered & praised because he can toss an inflated ball around. Along with the wife-beaters, rapists, etc.


    On a personal, emotional level, I do question why it is that millions of (mostly men) will get so jacked up about guys running around in tights playing with their balls that they are screaming and pounding the tables out in public, starting fights with other guys over which group of men wearing tights is best, and beating their women for interfering with the televised games. (Guess which day of the year is top in wife beating frequency? Yeah, the fucking Super Bowl).


    On a scientific level, one only has to read a little history to see it is just a facet of human nature. The Blues and the Greens rioting over chariot races nearly brought the latter day Eastern Roman Empire crashing to ruins. Justinian 'the not so Great' wanted to run away. His wife Theodora, a former dancer & prostitute, saved the Eastern Empire for many centuries t come by making him stay & face the fucking music.


    Quote Originally Posted by ScarletKitten View Post
    ^^Where do you get the assumption that I hate men? I don't hate men. I simply pointed out that the male football players get paid more than the female cheerleaders. This is an illustration of how sexism is rooted into this society. Just because I can recognize sexism, doesn't mean I hate men.

    Also, regardless of the fact that she "enjoys" cheerleading, she should be getting paid a decent wage. Are you saying that if a musician enjoys playing live music, he/she shouldn't get paid for it? I also get the feeling that these cheerleaders are brainwashed to feel this way. They have been "programmed" to not mind getting so fucked over. Otherwise, they would walk out on the job. I certainly wouldn't stick around for $17/day. I would rather flip burgers for $7.25/hr., then at least I would make more in 3 hours than cheerleaders make in an entire day.

    But hey, if they truly don't mind getting viewed as a sex object and working their asses off for only $17/day or whatever slave pay, then to each her own. I feel sorry for them though. And it enrages me how fucked up and greedy the NFL is. I will not support the NFL.

    Precisely.



    Once and for all. No one here is questioning how or why the NFL is able to legally justify one group of trained athletes in a multi-billion dollar industry being paid millions each, and another group of highly trained athletes being paid...diddly, jackshit, nada...oh but they get to be GOOD little sex slave girls who can meet RICH men and be eye candy for Life...

    Where's a vomit smiley when you need one...




    How they are able to morally justify it? Same kind of logic used to defend Rice and say a two game suspension for nearly breaking his woman's jaw ought to be enough.


    Quote Originally Posted by Vyanka View Post
    Football sucks.
    Have I told you that I love you yet?

    In a completely platonic and non-threatening way, and I am 2,000 miles away anyway.
    Last edited by Djoser; 09-22-2014 at 04:48 PM.
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    Default Re: Cheerleaders Should Be Grateful To Make NO Money....Yeah Right

    Quote Originally Posted by audrey_k View Post
    I was a cheerleader....

    But it was hard, honestly...I remember we had 12 hours of practice a week, that was on top of spending every commercial on TV stretching, the hours of practicing everyday so you don't continually get bumped to the back. My friend...practiced 15, 5 3hr practices. I don't know how much footballers practice, but football was a religion at my university and those guys got cut major slack-- from missing tons of classes, getting extensions on papers, extensions on exams, and who knows what else was going on under the surface. My friend never got any kind of extension or cut any slack.
    So what? Some girl wrote that she actually had fun doing it, so none of you should get paid anything at all!


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    Default Re: Cheerleaders Should Be Grateful To Make NO Money....Yeah Right

    Quote Originally Posted by Djoser View Post
    I've seen 'We live in a capitalist society...' used to justify why strippers should give cheap blowjobs many, many times here (though admittedly mostly in the blue sections and CC). ETA not that you would be so craven as to do this, gameover. But that argument has no moral basis whatsoever, and neither does this.

    No one is questioning the fact that rabid sports fans make this travesty of justice possible, the same way they make it possible for a convicted torturer and murderer of innocent animals to be cheered & praised because he can toss an inflated ball around. Along with the wife-beaters, rapists, etc.

    On a personal, emotional level, I do question why it is that millions of (mostly men) will get so jacked up about guys running around in tights playing with their balls that they are screaming and pounding the tables out in public, starting fights with other guys over which group of men wearing tights is best, and beating their women for interfering with the televised games. (Guess which day of the year is top in wife beating frequency? Yeah, the fucking Super Bowl).

    Once and for all. No one here is questioning how or why the NFL is able to legally justify one group of trained athletes in a multi-billion dollar industry being paid millions each, and another group of highly trained athletes being paid...diddly, jackshit, nada...oh but they get to be GOOD little sex slave girls who can meet RICH men and be eye candy for Life.
    You don't like football, I get it. I don't know if you had some childhood trauma related to football, or what. I don't think it strengthens your argument by trying to belittle the fans or the sport. Football is just a fun sport that many enjoy watching. Sure, they aren't curing cancer. But come on, you play CDs for a living. Some things in life can just be done for fun.

    My issue with this is that the NFL set up the squads as a fun thing women could volunteer for and enjoy for reasons already described. They provided as a courtesy, a small per diem, to help cover expenses. Then the cheerleaders come along and sue for more money. They are in the wrong here.

    It would be similar to this scenario. You volunteer some time at a nursing home, and they provide you with lunch on the days you are there, as thanks. You then turn around and sue them, asking for back pay. You don't deserve back pay, because you are a volunteer. You knew that going in. You would be in the wrong, wouldn't you agree?

    Just because the owners are rich, doesn't mean we are allowed to steal and extort money from them. If you don't like this system, maybe you should try out a socialist or communist country.

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    Default Re: Cheerleaders Should Be Grateful To Make NO Money....Yeah Right

    yes, "extorting" money from disgustingly wealthy assholes , and wanting to be paid for doing a time-consuming physically demanding job that they created is soo wrong..

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    Default Re: Cheerleaders Should Be Grateful To Make NO Money....Yeah Right

    gameover

    you are seriously factually challenged

    the teams make significant demands of the cheerleaders. Including time demands pretty much precluding a full time job.

    Lets not let facts get in the way of a good chance to call everyone who disagrees with you a socialist.

    As a matter of fact suing for justice is a capitalist mainstay, something these very team owners do on a regular basis

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    Default Re: Cheerleaders Should Be Grateful To Make NO Money....Yeah Right

    Quote Originally Posted by gameover View Post

    My issue with this is that the NFL set up the squads as a fun thing women could volunteer for and enjoy for reasons already described. They provided as a courtesy, a small per diem, to help cover expenses. Then the cheerleaders come along and sue for more money. They are in the wrong here.

    It would be similar to this scenario. You volunteer some time at a nursing home, and they provide you with lunch on the days you are there, as thanks. You then turn around and sue them, asking for back pay. You don't deserve back pay, because you are a volunteer. You knew that going in. You would be in the wrong, wouldn't you agree?

    Just because the owners are rich, doesn't mean we are allowed to steal and extort money from them. If you don't like this system, maybe you should try out a socialist or communist country.
    There is never anything that implies that cheerleaders are cheerleading voluntarily. Second, like other users had already mentioned, you really have no idea what cheerleading really entails and you seem to not be informed about all the out of pocket expenses those cheerleaders have to pay. It's asinine for them NOT to get a pay raise.

    They are not extorting anyone; they're simply asking to be paid according to what they have to spend in order to cheer (eg. makeup, hair, possible plastic surgery, etc).

    What are you going to say next? That you're a libertarian who worship the free market, that they can't be asking for more, and to go fuck themselves?





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    Default Re: Cheerleaders Should Be Grateful To Make NO Money....Yeah Right

    Yesterday I was watching the morning show and they had the bucs cheerleaders on. They were all talking about what an honor it is and the one girl said she tried out three times. She was a marine and has a day job and two girls. I must say I've never really seen any cheer( as I don't watch football) but they did and they sucked! All they did was do like a britney spares type routine. They flipped they're heads from side to side in synchronisity and circled they're pom poms around really fast. They weren't really that together. They said they practice twice a week. They also showed a clip( and spoke to two lady coaches) from a reality show called making the team( about Dallas cowboy cheeleaders) that was ridiculous how rude they were to the woman. I always thought that team had the hottest woman. Idk the woman they spoke with were just really thrilled to be able to say they are with whatever team. Kinda like dancers. The ones that do it for free drinks all night and to say their dancers. I'm sure there are some just happy to do it and some that think they should make tons and tons. I feel they should make a set pay per game. Say 200 or something. Not an hourly wage.

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    Default Re: Cheerleaders Should Be Grateful To Make NO Money....Yeah Right

    Let's just agree to disagree. It's just sad that so many think the path to success is just to sue someone, instead of study and hard work.

    It reminds me of a culture I studied in anthropology class in college. If any member of the village had too much success on their farm, they believed it was due to the farmer working in league with evil spirits, so they would trash the successful person's farm. As a result this village never rose above the poverty level, because anyone showing prosperity was brought down to the level of the laziest, least successful person in the village. More and more, I think this is what America has become.

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    Default Re: Cheerleaders Should Be Grateful To Make NO Money....Yeah Right

    ^ so cheerleaders are lazy, and the people who refuse to pay them got rich by honest hard work?? ok dude...

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    Default Re: Cheerleaders Should Be Grateful To Make NO Money....Yeah Right

    Quote Originally Posted by simone87 View Post
    ^ so cheerleaders are lazy, and the people who refuse to pay them got rich by honest hard work?? ok dude...
    Cheerleaders who sue, yes. The fact is, you can't earn a living cheerleading. They should go to school and learn a marketable skill. Even if they work hard as a cheerleader, they will never make money doing so, because that skill is not valued in the economy. You can bitch and moan about how cheerleading should pay millions, or you can look at the job market, and see what jobs are in demand and pay well.

    And while some rich people certainly inherited it, the original fortunes were earned by hard work. That might have been using their brain instead of a shovel, but it was hard work.

    I grew up in a lower middle class family. My dad blasted hardened chemicals off huge storage tanks using a jackhammer. I worked my way through college and through hard work, I now live quite comfortably.

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    Default Re: Cheerleaders Should Be Grateful To Make NO Money....Yeah Right

    if they cannot pay the girls a livable wage ( not millions, but i know for a fact that if they can pay those jughead baboons millions to throw a damn ball, they can pay the girls a semi-livable wage) then they shouldn't have created the job and taken all their time up, preventing them from working a second job. they have every right to sue the shit out of those sleazy assholes, who can't seem to part with a tiny bit for the female athletes they employ and use

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    Default Re: Cheerleaders Should Be Grateful To Make NO Money....Yeah Right

    Soo they can afford to pay the players absurd amounts for running around a field but not the cheerleaders risking their necks?? OK THEN! No wonder women cut off penises

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    Default Re: Cheerleaders Should Be Grateful To Make NO Money....Yeah Right

    Quote Originally Posted by simone87 View Post
    if they cannot pay the girls a livable wage ( not millions, but i know for a fact that if they can pay those jughead baboons millions to throw a damn ball, they can pay the girls a semi-livable wage) then they shouldn't have created the job and taken all their time up, preventing them from working a second job. they have every right to sue the shit out of those sleazy assholes, who can't seem to part with a tiny bit for the female athletes they employ and use
    Cheerleading is not a job in the NFL. Period. If you want to cheerlead as a hobby, go for it. Otherwise, there are many jobs that pay a good wage. These ex-cheerleaders may win a very small settlement, the NFL will cancel the squads, and all of the cheerleaders who like it will be screwed over because of these lawsuits. Whine: " But the NFL should pay big bucks because they have millions". You don't stay a millionaire if you piss away money on stuff like this. If you can't understand this, I hope you save a lot during your stripping career, because you won't be earning money using business prowess.

    I think Rick was right, this is like talking to a stone wall, so, I will leave this thread in peace.

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    Default Re: Cheerleaders Should Be Grateful To Make NO Money....Yeah Right

    you're right it IS like talking to a stone!! i never said millions, i said a LIVABLE WAGE. yes, i'm sure that would put a big dent in their bank account. "pissing away money" on women who work their assess off for these guys

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    Default Re: Cheerleaders Should Be Grateful To Make NO Money....Yeah Right

    Quote Originally Posted by gameover View Post
    I think Rick was right, this is like talking to a stone wall, so, I will leave this thread in peace.
    Leave me out of this dude. You've been goading the ladies for several posts now and I want no part of it.

    I just said that forcing clubs to give cheerleaders employee status would be bad for everyone as many clubs would likely close the squads down if this happened. I also expressed my belief that the issue is not what they would need to pay the cheerleaders, which is really a pittance compared to many of their other expenses, but rather the other uncontrollable liability issues that go with employee status.

    The only thing that irks me about this lawsuit is that 13 girls, who likely did not experience the same level of success as other girls who cheered, could deprive generations of future cheerleaders of the enormous opportunities that NFL cheerleading can provide, all in an effort to grab a few bucks on the back-end. They were grown adults who did this willingly, no doubt seeing future dollar signs in their eyes, but now they are crying victim because it did not work out for them, unlike many who have cashed in on the opportunity. The whole thing just stinks of sour grapes.

    But with all of that said, if cheerleading is as time consuming and option limiting as some have made it out to be, then I am all in favor of current and future cheerleaders lobbying for more money, such as in the form of increased honorariums. One hope I have is that the teams involved will settle the lawsuit out of court, thereby avoiding a ruling on the issue of employee status, and increase the honorariums to a more realistic level. IMHO that would be a win-win for everyone.

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    Default Re: Cheerleaders Should Be Grateful To Make NO Money....Yeah Right

    Quote Originally Posted by Kellydancer View Post
    I hear you give lousy head .
    Ah. Speaking frm experience??


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    Default Re: Cheerleaders Should Be Grateful To Make NO Money....Yeah Right

    Quote Originally Posted by gameover View Post
    I don't know if you had some childhood trauma related to football, or what.
    No, you don't know. So kindly stop trying to derail the argument by bringing up my childhood. Or for that matter my profession, as you have done twice now:

    Quote Originally Posted by gameover View Post
    But come on, you play CDs for a living. Some things in life can just be done for fun.
    Again, you don't know..a goddamned thing about DJing. I stopped using CDs almost ten years ago, as have the vast majority of SCDJs.

    I'm not sure what kind of point you are trying to make about the profession here this time, but I can only assume it isn't good, judging from your previous post slamming DJs even though they have nothing whatsoever to do with football or cheerleading.

    Quote Originally Posted by gameover View Post
    Just because the owners are rich, doesn't mean we are allowed to steal and extort money from them.
    What planet are you on, where the cheerleaders are trying to steal and extort money from the poor mistreated victimized team owners?? Because this thread is not about that. It is about cheerleaders deserving to be paid for hard work and athletic skill.

    Quote Originally Posted by gameover View Post
    If you don't like this system, maybe you should try out a socialist or communist country.
    If you don't like what we are saying here, maybe you should try out another fucking forum (and quit insulting the professionals here).

    I'm sure you can go find some kind of forum where the guys will agree that cheerleaders asking to be paid a minimal wage for their athletic skill and hard work is the same thing as extortion and robbery.

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    Default Re: Cheerleaders Should Be Grateful To Make NO Money....Yeah Right

    Quote Originally Posted by Jay12 View Post
    This link had nothing to do with the NFL. It was some "basketball wife". The NBA might be different.
    Nooo, that was the name of her show but she was a cheerleader who "fraternized" and got knocked up by a football player.
    Just having a hoot, doll!
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    Default Re: Cheerleaders Should Be Grateful To Make NO Money....Yeah Right

    LMFAO- I love you, Djoser! You saved this thread, so thank you.

    Gameover, it's GAME OVER for you. Your name is like a self-fulfilling prophecy, isn't it?

    giphyellen.gif
    Last edited by ScarletKitten; 11-26-2014 at 11:27 PM.

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    Default Re: Cheerleaders Should Be Grateful To Make NO Money....Yeah Right

    Quote Originally Posted by simone87 View Post
    if they cannot pay the girls a livable wage ( not millions, but i know for a fact that if they can pay those jughead baboons millions to throw a damn ball, they can pay the girls a semi-livable wage) then they shouldn't have created the job and taken all their time up, preventing them from working a second job. they have every right to sue the shit out of those sleazy assholes, who can't seem to part with a tiny bit for the female athletes they employ and use
    Simone, all the girls I saw on the show with the Bucs cheerleaders and the ones on making the team said they had jobs.

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    Default Re: Cheerleaders Should Be Grateful To Make NO Money....Yeah Right

    Quote Originally Posted by gameover View Post
    Cheerleaders who sue, yes. The fact is, you can't earn a living cheerleading. They should go to school and learn a marketable skill. Even if they work hard as a cheerleader, they will never make money doing so, because that skill is not valued in the economy. You can bitch and moan about how cheerleading should pay millions, or you can look at the job market, and see what jobs are in demand and pay well.

    And while some rich people certainly inherited it, the original fortunes were earned by hard work. That might have been using their brain instead of a shovel, but it was hard work.

    I grew up in a lower middle class family. My dad blasted hardened chemicals off huge storage tanks using a jackhammer. I worked my way through college and through hard work, I now live quite comfortably.
    OK, I wasn't going to come back to this thread but your comments have just set me over the edge. The fact that you're comparing wanting to be paid a LEGAL WAGE-- yes, these ladies would make more flipping burgers than flipping in the air-- to extortion, robbery, or being in a communist/socialist country is absolutely ridiculous, to the point of being laughable.

    Cheerleading is not what it was in the past, it has DRASTICALLY changed over the years. I was a cheerleader for 4 long years and it is a mixture of gymnastics, dance, stunts, chanting, and while you're doing all of the above, smiling and engaging with the crowd. As a stripper I will say it makes dancing on a pole look like drinking glass of water. If you want to become a professional cheerleader, we are talking 10+ years of dance/gymnastics training-- you can't just walk up and say "I'm pretty I want to be a Laker Girl!" I have two friends that continued cheer past high school. One got a scholarship to university, but after 7 years of cheerleading her back was so fucked up from all the tumbling she had to quit after a year, drop out of uni, and she has major back problems that will probably cost her thousands of dollars in the years to come. When I was cheerleading we had at least one person break a leg or a wrist a season, if not more, and I know several other girls that have had physical problems as a result of just 4-6 years of cheerleading-- I also did competitive gymnastics and I saw as many injuries, if not more, with cheerleading as gymnastics. My other friend spends 15 hours a week practicing with a team as her dream is to become a Laker Girl. She is 25 years old and she has been cheerleading since she was 12. Both of these ladies have put in JUST as much effort and time into their profession as you have, and do they deserve to make 2 mil a year? No... But they certainly deserve to make at least minimum wage!

    Watch this video and tell me if you can do ANY of the shit these girls are doing. This is the training it would require to make an NFL/NBA cheerleading team.

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    Default Re: Cheerleaders Should Be Grateful To Make NO Money....Yeah Right

    Quote Originally Posted by audrey_k View Post
    OK, I wasn't going to come back to this thread but your comments have just set me over the edge. The fact that you're comparing wanting to be paid a LEGAL WAGE-- yes, these ladies would make more flipping burgers than flipping in the air-- to extortion, robbery, or being in a communist/socialist country is absolutely ridiculous, to the point of being laughable.

    Cheerleading is not what it was in the past, it has DRASTICALLY changed over the years. I was a cheerleader for 4 long years and it is a mixture of gymnastics, dance, stunts, chanting, and while you're doing all of the above, smiling and engaging with the crowd. As a stripper I will say it makes dancing on a pole look like drinking glass of water. If you want to become a professional cheerleader, we are talking 10+ years of dance/gymnastics training-- you can't just walk up and say "I'm pretty I want to be a Laker Girl!" I have two friends that continued cheer past high school. One got a scholarship to university, but after 7 years of cheerleading her back was so fucked up from all the tumbling she had to quit after a year, drop out of uni, and she has major back problems that will probably cost her thousands of dollars in the years to come. When I was cheerleading we had at least one person break a leg or a wrist a season, if not more, and I know several other girls that have had physical problems as a result of just 4-6 years of cheerleading-- I also did competitive gymnastics and I saw as many injuries, if not more, with cheerleading as gymnastics. My other friend spends 15 hours a week practicing with a team as her dream is to become a Laker Girl. She is 25 years old and she has been cheerleading since she was 12. Both of these ladies have put in JUST as much effort and time into their profession as you have, and do they deserve to make 2 mil a year? No... But they certainly deserve to make at least minimum wage!

    Watch this video and tell me if you can do ANY of the shit these girls are doing. This is the training it would require to make an NFL/NBA cheerleading team.
    I hadn't planned to post any further in this thread, but if folks are gonna continue to direct comments at me, let me just respond with a couple comments.

    Audrey, I don't dispute that the cheerleading you are referring to requires great skill, great commitment and a huge amount of practice. I have seen cheerleader competitions on ESPN, and they are amazing to watch. It certainly is as difficult as any other sport. I am not disputing that. However, cheerleading in the NFL is nothing like it, at least at the games I've been to or seen on TV. Essentially, in the NFL, they stand on the sidelines and shake pom poms. They do a little more than that, but not much. They do none of the physical routines that you are describing.

    Perhaps extortion is too strongly charged word to use, but my point is, that from a legal perspective, they are not employees, they are volunteers. They are trying to use the legal system to change that to be treated as an employee. One of my pet peeves is the frivolous law suits that plague America today. Getting burned by MCDonald's coffee and suing for millions of dollars. Guess what, coffee is supposed to be hot.

    Right or wrong, the NFL doesn't consider it a job worth paying for. If you don't want to cheerlead for them as a volunteer, move on. They are not obligated to create a new job/position called cheerleader. In fact, there are many women who would kill for the chance to be a volunteer cheerleader. They turn away thousands every year.

    If the legal system decides that this is, in fact a job, and not a volunteer position, then the NFL would have to either pay minimum wage, or cancel the cheerleading squads. Most likely, if the NFL is forced to treat cheerleading as a job, they will just cancel the squads.

    Consider, that even if the NFL kept the cheerleaders and paid minimum wage, that would still amount to a very part time job, certainly not enough to live on. They practice twice a week for 4 hours, and they perform at 8 home games per year. So this job would be for 11 hours per week for eight weeks. That's about 88 hours per year of paid time (plus any special appearances). A regular job is 1,680 hours per year.

    Is 88 hours a year a job or a hobby? Is there more value to the cheerleaders to get the exposure and future career benefits from the prestige of being an NFL cheerleader as a cheerleader, or to risk all that for the chance to be paid minimum wage for 88 hours per year? Especially given that the NFL seems inclined to just cancel the squads rather than deal with this.

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