http://www.theguardian.com/culture/2...ions-children?
Interesting article i read today. Of course, it doesn't say anything we don't already know about market saturation.



http://www.theguardian.com/culture/2...ions-children?
Interesting article i read today. Of course, it doesn't say anything we don't already know about market saturation.





^^^True, but it does discuss major points rather eloquently ... From your link ...
(snip)" it is surprising to discover how badly those who make pornography, or who help it to be disseminated on the web, are faring. But their key problem will be familiar to those in the music industry or the newspaper business – how to generate an income from a commodity that is being widely distributed for free online.(snip)
(snip)“The tubes gave the typical surfer all the free content he would like. That has cannibalised the monetisation of all adult content. I blame it on hubris. We thought it was always going to be good, that no one would mess with our business model. We believed that people would still pay for something they could get for free.” He believes there has been an 80% drop in the number of UK businesses. “Regulation has killed it a bit too. The age-verification is killing us,” he says.(snip)
(snip)"Every two or three weeks we get a call from one of our performers, *** asking us to remove something. They say ‘My boyfriend will split up with me’ or ‘He has taken my baby away’. Some of them are really, really distressed. It is a horrible part … it is an upsetting part [of the job]. There is nothing we can do. The girls wanted to shoot, we pay them a lot of money … ” he says, flatly.
“We tell them it is going on the internet. We don’t pretend it is for our own consumption. But once a video is on the internet, there is nothing we can do. We have to say to the girls: ‘I’m sorry’. They say: ‘I’ll pay you.’ But there is nothing we can do.”(snip)
Of course, this conference really didn't address the one area of the adult industry where most dancers and camgirls are involved ... i.e. providing 'personalized' content. However, as is relatively well known, dancers and camgirls who are willing to provide large amounts of 'personalized' content at comparatively low prices creates a similar 'monetization' problem.
Last edited by Melonie; 10-05-2014 at 12:14 PM. Reason: i
The porn industry is becoming like a dinosaur. Soon it's going to be extinct!
15 years ago porn was at its boom. Producers would make there adult movies. Stock the videos in adult XXX stores and also mail order catalogs. And they would sell there DVD's for like $50 each. A copy of Penthouse or Hustler magazine would go for like $10 a copy. They were rolling in the $$$$$$$$$$. And that's the only way the public get pornography.
Fast forward to 15 years later. Most people now could view porn for free on there iPhones. They could make there own porno video with there iPhones and upload it to some tube site like Xhamster or Xvideos. No one is paying for porn anymore these dayz!
I wonder what it's going to be like in another 15 years?





Porn is outdated and outdated stuff rarely profits.
- Hookup culture is the standard in everyday life. Free sex, essentially
- Free tube site porn
- So much porn already out there on every kind of thing that there's not much new stuff they can make
- Doing sexual acts for money being "okay" so now more girls are doing it
- The recession causing girls to become desperate (though those girls don't last long in the industry at all lol)



True. The entire business model has been knocked over on its head and it seems it's going to take a while for the smoke to clear and the rubble to stop bouncing. Aftershocks and secondary detonations will keep going on for a while, who knows what Adult Media will look like in another decade.
The article quotes that producer at saying that the pay for his girls is €400 for a 4-hour video session (he does work in the Czech Rep, an EU country but not a Euro-currency country, though). That's US$500 at today's exchange. I wonder how that compares with the situation this side of the sea .





Based on feedback from my few acquaintances in the US porn industry, the Czech girls are being paid at somewhat of a 'bargain' rate ...perhaps 1/2 as much ? Of course, local costs of living and local tax rates are undoubtedly far lower in the former Czech countries than they are in Southern California etc., thus the amount of spendable money earned by the Czech girls is probably better than it appears.The article quotes that producer at saying that the pay for his girls is €400 for a 4-hour video session (he does work in the Czech Rep, an EU country but not a Euro-currency country, though). That's US$500 at today's exchange. I wonder how that compares with the situation this side of the sea .
This is worth looking at in more detail. Arguably, what's outdated is the ability to sell 'non-personalized' content. The 'personalized' factor is probably the mechanism by which camgirls, dancers etc. have been able to retain a profitable business model. Granted that even these 'personalized' business models are also under financial pressure from an increased 'supply' of girls, from some girls choosing to offer 'more for less', etc.Porn is outdated and outdated stuff rarely profits.



Am I the only one whose money has been steadily rising in this "decline"?
Fear, fear, fear, that's all I hear from articles like this. Everything is going to shit if you think it is.





You know what's funny (not funny haha)is that I'm hearing people doing porn now are being offered the same or even less than I was offered and in my case was almost 20 years ago. It's because society has changed and back then a sex tape wasn't as common. Now everyone has one. Plus back then if you did an amateur tape there was a possibility it would never surface. I did an amateur video and apparently it is out of print. The company went out of business long before DVD's and online porn became the rage and I haven't found it anywhere. I'd be afraid today because the video would likely end up online.
True and also explains what happened to stripping. I made hundreds doing no contact air dance either in a bikini or topless with pasties. Today I would probably have to do somethings I would be bothered doing.




I think the business is changing, not dying. Sure, there is no longer $$ in video production, but there is plenty of money in erotic literature and live, in-person entertainment such as stripping, camming, and escorting. With the decline of marriage and increase of acceptance of sex work (at least from the consumer side, if not from the provider side) people aren't going to be satisfied with a tape that shows simply people fucking in unrealistic positions for hours on end.





I would speculate that part of your improving earnings are due to your hustle skills improving with time. But I would also speculate that Oklahoma's booming oil based economy has had some positive effect as well. There's a related thread in the Industry Insight forum describing the fact that a significant number of ( former ) 'middle class' residents of Northeast US States have been relocating to other states ( including Oklahoma ) where taxes are lower and economic opportunities are better. Thus while girls located in the handful of states with healthy economies and an influx of 'middle class' residents may be seeing an improvement, girls located in the larger number of other states where businesses and 'middle class' residents are moving out may be seeing a decline.Am I the only one whose money has been steadily rising in this "decline"?
Unfortunately for those involved in the porn industry, there are enough financial numbers available to show that porn production company sales volumes and revenues / profits have experienced major declines. And while most 'aggregator' adult websites don't publish financial data, those that do show that after-tax profit levels are dropping. In fact, Manwin, which is arguably now the largest company in the porn industry, has recently followed in the footsteps of Apple, Google etc. by relocating it's 'intellectual property' to Ireland to boost profits via lower tax rates. See . The point, of course, is that this isn't just a case of fear-mongeringFear, fear, fear, that's all I hear from articles like this
Last edited by Melonie; 10-07-2014 at 10:04 AM.





^ exactly. its evolving, and i think we need to change with the times and evolve with them, or go extinct. of course it isn't going to be like it was 20 or 30 years ago, nothing is! and things are changing SOO fast these days. classic porn is probably all but dead right now, but i think camming and clips have taken its place ( oops that was meant for tourd's post)
Last edited by simone87; 10-08-2014 at 10:54 AM.
I think it's important to be realistic about where and how you can expect to make the most money going into the future as social trends change, technology takes over, and certain parts of the industry shift and/or decline. But I do think that if people spent more time improving, individually refining, and being confident in their own hustle/product/brand/marketing/business instead of worrying about how they can simply "compete" with the next girl and reacting out of fear, everyone would be doing a lot better.
Don't try to win over the haters. You are not the Jerk Whisperer.
Your playing small does not serve the world. There is nothing enlightened about shrinking so that other people won't feel insecure around you.





True many have gone out of biz, but many of those guys were in it to exploit the girls & get laid. They never were concerned with what the buyers wanted, about quality, about their own product. They made money & had plenty of young fresh girls to use up & throw away. They made money at it while getting their perv on.
There is still money but now more of us can do it ourselves. Not just a few men at the top of the food chain. There are still quite a few companies still in biz & STILL making money. Nobody is going to run a porn company without a profit just to keep horny men happy.
Now, just like I have been saying on here for several years & in life fo 10. The talent can make the money if they work it right & do it all themselves. Let the fans vote with their dollars who has the product they want to buy. Camming, vod sites, clips4sale, modelcentro it is all out their for us to make the money just like the deals ONLY offered to those dirty old pervs back in the day.
Sam
I will second Sam and also amplify that it's an evolution rather than a decline. The fact that old methods of earning money don't work doesn't mean the industry is down, it only means that there are new ways to make money here. Not only from the point of view of the business owner, but even the user's experiences are changing, what people want and are willing to pay for has changed, it's finding those things that is the current challenge.
BDSM - Business Development, Sales & Marketing





Very happy to hear you are doing well--and considering the quality of your posts, I am not surprised to hear it.
But most mainstream producers are having trouble, except maybe the giants. Most of the medium & smaller producers are getting the shit kicked out them, compared to 15 years ago.
Some of the independent women and some very innovative producers and industry associates are doing well, but the independent women tend to be in niche markets--and some of them are very savvy women.
Very well said.
Not all men who produce porn are doing it to get laid and abuse the women. That stereotype does exist, sure--as do the stereotypical stripclub owners, managers, DJs and strippers. But there are plenty of exceptions, just as in the world of stripping--and it's sure as hell not the main reason the industry is going through such an upheaval at the moment. Not by far.
The quality of porn in the last 15 years has skyrocketed. There have been many, many companies who were very concerned with what their customers wanted, with the maintenance and improvement of quality, and their own product. Compared to what was available in the decades before that, much of it is phenomenal.
There has been an certain oversaturation of 'Churn 'em out' mediocre videos with lackluster performers--largely as a response to consumer and distributor requests for more and more new product. Nonetheless, the discerning and demanding consumer can easily find infinitely superior content to what was out there before 2000.
Right now mainstream hardcore porn producers cannot possibly make anywhere near the same money as back in 2000--not when any asshole with a computer can watch & download every video they ever made for free. Not unless they are very clever and innovative indeed.
Last edited by Djoser; 10-13-2014 at 05:29 AM.
You must have chaos within you to give birth to a dancing star.
Friedrich Nietzsche
Free your mind, and your ass will follow.
George Clinton
______________________________________





True that ! In fact, some of my acquaintances tell me that the Super HD video quality now demanded by porn producers selling to cable TV, hotel chains, etc. is starting to become a problem for the 'talent' ... because it shows every skin blemish, every ass pimple, etc.The quality of porn in the last 15 years has skyrocketed. There have been many, many companies who were very concerned with what their customers wanted, with the maintenance and improvement of quality, and their own product. Compared to what was available before that in the decades before that, much of it is phenomenal.





YET I feel absolutely NO pity for them what-so-ever... those companies, those producers GOT rich meanwhile keeping the talent from residuals & the ability to make money in porn other than HOOKING! It was the good old boys club... They dictated who got shot & who didn't. Considering I've been doing this for 15 years, YES, they expected all the girls to suck their dicks.
Now talent has the ability to hustle & bring in the money like never before. I don't feel one single bit sorry for ANY of them. 15 years ago if you weren't young, skinny & had fake tits YOU didn't get shot. Now the consumers & a talent's hustle determine who makes the money.
Even currently, none of them really listen to the fans & what they want. They still all want their dicks sucked. I can speak to this as a talent who has been on major sets for major companies for the 15 years. I go by my experience & not what others say.
Sam





You certainly have the right to your opinion. I disagree, as I am quite sure many others in the industry do.*
The one thing I agree with you about--that the requirement for huge fake BAs in female talent has always been absurd. There's an amazing number of men who dislike them, yet they got rammed down the consumers' throats--though it seemed to decrease after maybe 2005 or so. One thing that is very refreshing about a lot of the New Wave porn, the women actually look natural...
*Specifically, I emphatically disagree that porn producers have ignored what the consumers want to see in the last 15 years, that they don't care about the maintenance of quality of their content, or their product. Save the guys who put questionable talent in their videos--to save money paying for the Playboy/Penthouse model types for instance--and became effectively 'Pulp Porn' producers.
Last edited by Djoser; 10-13-2014 at 06:47 AM.
You must have chaos within you to give birth to a dancing star.
Friedrich Nietzsche
Free your mind, and your ass will follow.
George Clinton
______________________________________





I have to disagree about the fake boobs too. I'm not saying there weren't a lot of producers wanted them, but many sought me out because I had large firm breasts that were real. Yes I was lucky and they were amazing but proves that not every producer wanted fakes. I only did one video, but was offered many more so it wasn't the exception. The reason I only did one was because I wasn't comfortable about the whole situation.





Porn isn't going out of style. In fact sexually based material is being disseminated at historic levels. Smut is everywhere [which, actually, is a big part of the problem - ubiquity is wonderful for the consumer but is frequently not very profitable].
What has changed is how it gets disseminated, and that change has negatively impacted an industry that wasn't prepared for the paradigm shift that brings us the poronography industry as it exists today. Same-same as the music and film industry, but even more so.
The tube sites are the biggest part of that. They aren't playing the game fairly in how they rip-off content. Any popular female cam performer can google her stage name and find any number of the 'tubes' broadcasting vid clips of her cam performances. This is copyrighted material with no permissions given to rebroadcast it, but they will happily do so until notified legally to cease and desist. Then they will take it down until someone else uploads new captures and the whole process has to take place again.
These thefts of copyrighted material need to be addressed through class-actions, where damaged parties sue the tube sites en mass to generate a crippling reward that makes it clear to the owners of these sites that rebroadcasting copyrighted material without proper consent isn't profitable. To date this has not occurred, so it continues. It hasn't occurred most likely because these sites are hard to pin down. Who owns them. Who do you sue. Under what laws, since they are international in scope. It is going to have to get done though if it is going to stop.
The problem needs to be approached in two ways, taking place at the same time. The first is to find a way to lock down the value of content produced by making it nearly impossible to get ahold of by means that violate copyright and intellectual property. The second is to find a way to disseminate it in a way that benefits the consumer [meaning cheap] that still generates a profit for the producers.
The first is accomplished by making it very uncomfortable for those profiting by broadcasting "free" porn. The aforementioned lawsuits over copyright and IP, then lobbying for legislation that negatively impacts these sites and public relations campaigns that find the fine line where these sites are in the crosshairs but not the adult entertainment industry as a whole.
The second is by founding an "iTunes" of porn, where new and original, high quality, content can be purchased on the cheap.
Until this takes place the porn industry will continue to flounder in decline.
Last edited by Golden_Rule; 10-13-2014 at 11:35 AM.
Fiat justitia, pereat mundus.
BTW, while we are on the subject, is it needed to point out the obvious: That it is just possible that if you are willing to judge the worth of someone simply by what you read on a website about them it might say a whole hell of a lot more about you than it says about the person you are judging?





I am not portraying either the porn industry, or the women involved in it, as damsels in distress. No doubt the tube sites are an integral part of the porn industry. I simply state they aren't playing by the rules. They have thousands of hours of material on them they haven't been given permission to rebroadcast. Copyrighted and intellectual property they have no right to disseminate. They are making a profit leaching off the content made by others and not sharing those profits with the content creators. That won't change until someone forces the issue.
And there will ALWAYS be middlemen in any form of entertainment industry. The creators usually aren't good business people, the consumers frequently doesn't know what they want until it is presented to them. The middlemen are the layer that FACILITATES both. It is simply a matter of whether those middlemen are going to profit honestly in that facilitation, or whether they are going to steal. That has always been the way of the entertainment biz.
iTunes is a middleman. Spotify, Pandora, the same. Every film distributor. Netflix. Amazon Prime. These intermediate layers exist EVERYWHERE. No where in media is what you are suggesting taking place on a large scale. Nowhere are the creators selling direct to the consumer on a large scale. Even when an outfit like Netflix "creates" an "Orange is the New Black" they are purchasing a product from a production house that they are facilitating by distributing it... they just put their own house label on it before they do.
And that is what porn needs to become profitable again. A "Spotify of Porn". A "Netflix of Porn". That won't happen though until you ring in the reigns on content, because as long as it is abundant and "free" no one has any use for an "Amazon Prime of Porn".
Fiat justitia, pereat mundus.
BTW, while we are on the subject, is it needed to point out the obvious: That it is just possible that if you are willing to judge the worth of someone simply by what you read on a website about them it might say a whole hell of a lot more about you than it says about the person you are judging?





^^^ in point of fact, this was built into the business model of today's webcam host sites and tube sites. The webcam hosts set themselves up as actual copyright owner of all content created via their site. The webcam hosts then 'trade' some of that content with tube sites, in exchange for 'free' traffic back to the webcam host site. This is actually a worse situation than applies to the music industry, because at least the musicians retain copyright.
In regard to direct sale / distribution of content, this used to be possible for internet girls 10+ years ago ... via indy websites which could actually be located via search engines. However, over the years, increasing legalities / legal risks for being a 'porn producer', search engine transition to de-facto 'paid advertising' to actually achieve good placement / traffic, increasing costs and complexities of transacting adult business related internet based credit card charges, etc., have all contributed to the growth in the role of 'middle men'.
Last edited by Melonie; 10-14-2014 at 06:07 AM.



Well said Sam! I worked in porn for 8 years and it was the male producers who made all the money while performers were paid a set amount and expected to do alot for that money often in very uncomfortable surroundings. Now i webcam from the comfort of my own home and set my own boundaries and dont stand for any crap. Its a much better deal for me. xx





I've heard that, but not from a source that I could state was verifiable. So it had to go down in my book as subjective finding until corroborated. I trust your say so as knowledgeable on the subject and thus consider it confirmed.
Wow, that is some truly shitty business. Do the cam sites inform the models that their content will be given over to 3rd party distribution outlets where they will receive no remuneration, even though the cam sites themselves are remunerated by way of barter?
Fiat justitia, pereat mundus.
BTW, while we are on the subject, is it needed to point out the obvious: That it is just possible that if you are willing to judge the worth of someone simply by what you read on a website about them it might say a whole hell of a lot more about you than it says about the person you are judging?





What's interesting is that Youporn, one of the biggest tube sites putting out all that free porn, is owned by Manwin, arguably the biggest corporation in porn today.
Last edited by Djoser; 10-15-2014 at 02:39 AM.
You must have chaos within you to give birth to a dancing star.
Friedrich Nietzsche
Free your mind, and your ass will follow.
George Clinton
______________________________________
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