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Thread: Speaking of charity work

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    Default Speaking of charity work

    There was a discussion on the cheerleader thread about whether cheerleaders should be paid for doing appearances in support of a cause favored by their employers. I have a follow up to my view that, if you are doing work to benefit a cause your boss believes in (instead of one you select), that you deserve to be paid because you are benefiting your boss.

    It is also a pet peeve of mine when I buy something, and the store tries to guilt trip me into donating to a cause that is favored by the corporation. Why does Wendy's get to decide who I should donate to? Wendy's is now promoting donations to families that support foster children. If I want to buy a Wendy's burger (which I probably don't), I have to tell the server whether I will donate to this cause. Why should I have to reveal myself that way to an employee of Wendy's just to have a commercial transaction. Why can't I ask the owner of Wendy's to support the movement to raise the minimum wage to $15, so that Wendy's employees will be able to support their families?

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    Default Re: Speaking of charity work

    ^^^the flip side, of course, is that there are innumerable existing charities which rely on the zero cost time and effort which is 'volunteered' by people to keep the charity operational. New mandates requiring that each of those 'volunteers' be considered as employees, thus triggering minimum wage pay requirements as well as all associated 'employee' rights, benefits, and costs, would absolutely bankrupt many of those existing charities. The shared legal question boils down to people ( still ) being allowed to 'volunteer' their time and effort ... as NFL cheerleaders or corporate interns or any other kind of unpaid work ... in exchange for 'intangible' benefits ... versus a ( new ) gov't mandate that all 'workers' be treated as employees.

    Your attempts to raise a minimum wage discussion ... and especially a discussion of a $15 minimum wage for fast food workers ... clearly falls under the heading of 'politics'. Similarly, any attempts to separate different kinds of unpaid work into types of work 'worthy' of being treated as ( mostly ) unpaid volunteer work, versus other types of work which should be treated as employees with associated wages, benefits and other 'employer' costs, is also 'political'.
    Last edited by Melonie; 10-06-2014 at 08:38 AM.

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    Default Re: Speaking of charity work

    There is a lot in your message that is worthy of careful response. Let me do my best:

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie View Post
    ^^^the flip side, of course, is that there are innumerable existing charities which rely on the zero cost time and effort which is 'volunteered' by people to keep the charity operational.
    Of course! And when someone decides to donate time and effort to a cause that they believe in, they are truly volunteers, and no one would expect them to be paid. As I have said before, if I decide to donate my time to a soup kitchen, this is true volunteerism, and I have no right to expect to be paid.
    New mandates requiring that each of those 'volunteers' be considered as employees, thus triggering minimum wage pay requirements as well as all associated 'employee' rights, benefits, and costs, would absolutely bankrupt many of those existing charities. We are not talking about "new mandates." We are talking about the Fair Labor Standards Act, which was passed in 1937, and which was enforced effectively in the 1950s and 1960s, in both Republican and Democratic administrations, at a time when our economy grew steadily
    The shared legal question boils down to people ( still ) being allowed to 'volunteer' their time and effort ... as NFL cheerleaders or corporate interns or any other kind of unpaid work ... in exchange for 'intangible' benefits ... versus a ( new ) gov't mandate that all 'workers' be treated as employees. This is really where we disagree. We are no longer talking about volunteering for a charity. We are talking about people donating time to rich, powerful corporate entities so that they can make more money. If people are willing to work for "intangible benefits," then why would anyone get paid. It reminds me of the strip club customers (I'm sure you have run into the type) who find it disturbing that the performers wish to be paid for spending time with them. As I have said on occasion, "Its their fucking job. Of course they want to get paid. That doesn't mean that they don't like spending time with you or dancing for you, but its a job, and of course they deserve to get paid for it.

    Your attempts to raise a minimum wage discussion ... and especially a discussion of a $15 minimum wage for fast food workers ... clearly falls under the heading of 'politics'. I did pick that example because I believe that low wages contribute to the suffering of children. But I could have picked any other cause that is important to me. Why does whoever replaced Dave Thomas get to decide what charities are worthy of MY dollars. He can donate to whatever he wants, but it is none of his damn business who I want to donate to.
    Similarly, any attempts to separate different kinds of unpaid work into types of work 'worthy' of being treated as ( mostly ) unpaid volunteer work, versus other types of work which should be treated as employees with associated wages, benefits and other 'employer' costs, is also 'political'.
    I don't think there is anything "political" about drawing a distinction between making contributions to soup kitchens and donating free time to a multi-billion dollar profit making business
    Since we have drifted back to the cheerleader issue, did you notice that this is breast cancer awareness month in the NFL. They are selling pink jerseys with your favorite players number. (Yes, including Ray Rice jerseys). They donate to the Susan B. Komen fund if you buy one of these jerseys. Of course, the teams get more than twice as much profit as they donate. And they still have the nerve to force their cheerleaders to donate time without compensation!

    This last was supposed to come out in pink.

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    Default Re: Speaking of charity work

    I am a big supporter of charities I find worthwhile. I do things for the local animal shelters (saving animals is a big issue for me and has been since I was small), I volunteer at the local American Legion because I support military coming from a military family, and I volunteer at the church and they do a lot to help local struggling families. I also support various disease organizations that give a huge percentage to the actual cause, like St Jude's. What I won't do is donate time or money to an organization that has either a low percentage donation or helps people not in need, like the wealthy. For example, I have never given to the United Way and never will. Their CEO makes a lot and a lot of the donation is wasted. Not to mention they support many things I don't. I generally give to local charities versus national or international ones because it is more likely to help local.

    Sometimes I will give money to a charity one is asking to donate to. If I go to PetSmart or Petco yes I will give to their animal charities (though I rarely go as I have a friend who owns a pet store so I try to buy from him). I do give to St Jude when they do the money around Christmas. I do put coins in a Salvation Army kettle. Recently though the drug store was asking for donation for a local military event. The reason I didn't give was I was short, normally I would donate. If it was something I do not support I wouldn't give money (and this has happened). Not that I shop at Wal-Mart but I've been told they often ask for donations to help workers. I would never donate to that, not because I don't support helping them, but why should I pay for Wal-Mart?

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    Default Re: Speaking of charity work

    don't think there is anything "political" about drawing a distinction between making contributions to soup kitchens and donating free time to a multi-billion dollar profit making business
    Actually the NFL is structured as a non-profit corporation, believe it or not ! As was mentioned in regard to United Way, having non-profit status doesn't necessarily mean having a limited budget.

    On the flip side, many of today's hospitals are owned by huge 'for profit' corporations - should their 'volunteers' be mandatorily paid ? Should unpaid internships at the likes of Google, JPMorgan, the NY Times, Fox News, etc. be abolished ? How about 'volunteers' for tremendously well-financed political parties / candidates ? My attempted point was that, once you legally declare that 'some' types of volunteer work are still OK while 'other'' types of volunteer work are illegal ( by new legislation, by a new 'interpretation' of the FLSA etc. ), a potential Pandora's Box is opened regarding the 'powers that be' deciding which is which.

    In truth, my greater concern is that the legal issues which may arise from NFL cheerleader lawsuits, and/or new legislation, new 'interpretations' of the FLSA etc., could have a direct bearing on independent contractor versus 'employee' status for dancers.
    Last edited by Melonie; 10-07-2014 at 04:31 AM.

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    Default Re: Speaking of charity work

    Honestly this practice doesn't really bother me so much. First, we are usually talking about a nominal request. Second, in most cases that I've experienced, the causes were worthy enough that I did not feel overly intruded upon by the request, even when I declined to donate for one reason or another.

    In fact, I find it encouraging to see these businesses make the effort to support things like food banks, kids with cancer, and so many other good works. Taking the Wendy's example. More foster families are going to have additional help because of what Wendy's is doing. How is that a bad thing? Is helping foster kids really so controversial? Sorry to say it Mr. Mike, but IMHO the real help provided to the needy beneficiaries of these charities far outweighs the momentary inconvenience that some shoppers feel for being asked to donate a buck. And every so often, when I am solicited to donate to a charity that I am not fond of for one reason or another (which is rare but there are a few), I just say "not today, thanks."

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    Default Re: Speaking of charity work

    You're over thinking it, MrMike52. I've been that person behind the counter asking for donations, and I promise you that I didn't give a shit if a customer donated or not. I was required by management to ask as part of my job and would get my hours cut if I didn't ask. I worked for Ross Dress For Less, and our thing was The American Heart Association. Every hour I had to read a script about donating over the PA system, as well as ask each customer I checked out if they wanted to donate. I had to do it. It was a requirement for employment.

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    Default Re: Speaking of charity work

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie View Post
    Actually the NFL is structured as a non-profit corporation, believe it or not ! As was mentioned in regard to United Way, having non-profit status doesn't necessarily mean having a limited budget.

    On the flip side, many of today's hospitals are owned by huge 'for profit' corporations - should their 'volunteers' be mandatorily paid ? Should unpaid internships at the likes of Google, JPMorgan, the NY Times, Fox News, etc. be abolished ? How about 'volunteers' for tremendously well-financed political parties / candidates ? My attempted point was that, once you legally declare that 'some' types of volunteer work are still OK while 'other'' types of volunteer work are illegal ( by new legislation, by a new 'interpretation' of the FLSA etc. ), a potential Pandora's Box is opened regarding the 'powers that be' deciding which is which.

    In truth, my greater concern is that the legal issues which may arise from NFL cheerleader lawsuits, and/or new legislation, new 'interpretations' of the FLSA etc., could have a direct bearing on independent contractor versus 'employee' status for dancers.
    I have been a volunteer for political groups along with an unpaid intern for college. Would I do it again? probably not. In the case of the political they kept asking for more and more and several politicians treated me like crap. If the politician was a family member or a friend I probably would (and have) but otherwise, no. However, I teach religious ed every Sunday and that is unpaid and it requires a lot of work. I have to attend classes every year and attend mandatory meetings and create a lesson plan (already did this for the year)but in return I feel appreciated. For example, every year the church takes all volunteers to a nice dinner and we receive gifts for Christmas from them. I also receive Christmas gifts from my students and even end of year gifts, which makes me feel appreciated. Not just that but so many parents tell me how wonderful I am doing. To me that feels good. Compare it with the political volunteering where they forgot me the next day.

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    Default Re: Speaking of charity work

    As far as this thread being 'political' goes, sure it's skirting the boundaries a bit. If I were to point some people for pushing the limits with the political posts and threads every single time they did so, they wouldn't be able to object here.

    I will keep an eye on this thread to be sure the political overtones do not get worse.
    You must have chaos within you to give birth to a dancing star.
    Friedrich Nietzsche

    Free your mind, and your ass will follow.
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