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Thread: How to help someone who is sexist?

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    Sad How to help someone who is sexist?

    This is a legit question. Most of the time I squawk something witty and condescending back at someone who makes sexist remarks. I have a family member who is a total woman hater and I love him and want to help him. I am writing down a list of topics we might be able to talk about at a later date. Any suggestions? I'm really not sure what to do because I never think of "helping" someone who is sexist I've always just blown them off. I know I might not be able to change his mind on the topic but I don't see him living a happy life if he carries on this way and I also don't want him going out hurting people including himself because of his hateful thoughts.

    Is it a bad idea to talk about men like Eliot Rodgers?

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    Default Re: How to help someone who is sexist?

    Re: the topic of Eliot Rodgers & his ilk, do you think your family member is (or could become) unstable to the point of thinking that sort of behaviour is a good idea? If so, I might see a professional therapist for advice on how to handle him, or even whether you should try.

    I am not an optimist at all when it comes to the question of whether ppl can significantly change for the better. Attitudes toward sex, race, etc are so deeply ingrained that it often seems to take more work to change than the person is willing to put in. I also think that if a person is so happy to go around hurting ppl w/ their prejudices or thru any other means, then they deserve whatever hurt they get in return. But I admit to being a bit petty like that.

    If he is so hateful of women, does that hate extend to you & any other female members of his family? I think the answer to that question would say a lot as to whether or not he can be helped.

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    Default Re: How to help someone who is sexist?

    A few months ago he expressed empathy towards rodgers. I asked him about it today and he said he didn't feel that way anymore. I don't think he is unstable enough to go on a rampage but just to be safe I did remove my weapon from my home. I should add he has just left the military, he is transitioning back into civilian life after 8 years of service.

    I am optimistic that he can change because he wasn't like this before. He doesn't hate me.

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    Default Re: How to help someone who is sexist?

    Transitioning between military & civilian life (in either direction) can feel pretty monumental under the best conditions. I would strongly encourage him to get sm counseling, both for any general issues he may be having & more specifically for his sexism problem. If he wasn't this way previously, then the hatred towards women may just be a (deeply misguided) way of channelling his upset over a deeper problem.

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    Default Re: How to help someone who is sexist?

    The first step is getting him to admit he is sexist, have you been able to do that yet?

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    Default Re: How to help someone who is sexist?

    I am tempted to say not to bother because it will just frustrate you.

    He is coming out of the military, which is a testosterone filled boys club.

    Perhaps when he makes a comment, personalize it. Ask him how does he suppose it makes you feel

    Perhaps clue him in that this behavior is not acceptable out in the real world.

    I have found people who use sexist[or even racist] language are not always the worst in reality., but at any rate, don't hold out big expectations on changing attitudes,but you may be able to change behavior in your presence
    Last edited by oldster; 10-31-2014 at 09:42 AM.

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    Default Re: How to help someone who is sexist?

    I have discovered that it can be very difficult to change people's beliefs especially if they think that what they believe is right. Changing people's beliefs means challenging what they already know to be true. This is an uphill battle. One that takes time and energy. Plus Some people get really defensive and others just don't like change.
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    Default Re: How to help someone who is sexist?

    Oh, trust me I know as well. I'm also a veteran and have been to war and had a difficult transition into civilian life myself. I know about all that.
    I cannot and will not try to coax him out of his mindset or hold his hand to therapy. I sincerely don't think that's how people are helped and truly change.
    He is an adult. I can't make him do anything he doesn't want to do. He has a lot to say about women and even said to me that I decided my self worth was more important to me than my child having a father present in my life and that that was why I got divorced.
    I'm not taking his words personally. He's spemt 8 years in a place where you don't even have to think for yourself. You don't have to worry about paying rent or utilities or anything you face in the real world. He has never been married and he does not have kids. I've done a lot of things in my life that he hasn't. Life and education has changed me drastically over the years and I'm okay with that. Perhaps he will change too. When you experience stuff you often come to the realization you in fact don't know shit about certain situations until you experience them first hand....but only then.
    Life will carry on and it is life that will beat change into him. I'll over it. It's not my battle to fight but when he's ready to seek help I'll be happy to assist.

    Also I want to add that I AM an awesome woman. It's not on my shoulders to change his views on what women should be. According to him a woman should be a homemaker while her husband provides. According to him "nice" girls don't work in strip clubs. The only person I'm worried about setting an example for is my daughter. It's not me who has to change. I'm a single mother, stripper, divorced, young, feminist and I am totally okay with all these things about me. That's all that matters.

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    Default Re: How to help someone who is sexist?

    If there were to be a sticky compiled of all the best quotes from SW, I would add this ^^^^ to that list. It's very good advice that can be applied to a lot of situations besides the OP.

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    Default Re: How to help someone who is sexist?

    Loki, IMHO there really isn't much that you can do. As you pointed out, he has some maturing to do, which will only happen through time and life experiences. In fact, unless he acquired some skills in the military that enable him to pull a 6 figure income out here in the real world, he's eventually going to learn that his notion of one working parent is really hard to pull off nowadays.

    20 years from now he may laugh at himself for making some of those comments. Or he could be alone and bitter. I guess it all depends on if and how he matures. Probably the best thing that you can do is to be a good example of what a strong woman and a good Mom looks like. IMHO lecturing never really works - we learn by observation.

    Good luck!

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    Default Re: How to help someone who is sexist?

    I did want to help him. I've come to the realization he doesn't want help. I know that you can't help people until they're ready so I'm over it. Like I said, I'll be there when he's good and ready.
    In the meantime I won't sit idly by like some idiot with stupid smiles and pleasantries in hopes he changes. Thats seriously some terrible advice you gave earlier.

    So thats that. Just have to wait on life to happen for him.

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    Default Re: How to help someone who is sexist?

    SK I gotta agree w/ Loki here ^^^^ 'leading by example' isn't going to get results if a sexist guy dislikes the woman offering the example purely bc she's a woman. It sounds like he's got more going on than 'leading by example' alone can fix.

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    Default Re: How to help someone who is sexist?

    I wonder what brought that on. Is he bad with girls in general, i.e. trouble getting a girlfriend?

    These are pretty powerful negative ideas because there is a thread of truth to them but it is misdirected into old fashioned gender roles. Countless numbers of single mothers do a great job, but what about the fathers. I think the real problem is that there are a growing number of males who do not make the transition from boys to men. That sounds like something a guy should just do on their own, but it is the traditional role of male family members to initiate that. We are talking about some pretty fundamental character building stuff men need like standing up for yourself even if you could be killed, not lying, keeping your word, self confidence, doing what is right even if it feels crappy, and having a meaningful mission in life. The common thread I see among a lot of the young males that have serious maturity problems is they never got those lessons and neither did many of their peers.

    You are absolutely right, you can't control anything he does or thinks. Debates about these things just tend to fan the flames, I don't think they really change peoples minds.

    The "military" isn't one job obviously. I spent my 20 in a male-only MOS, but there are a lot of women these days in any unrestricted MOS doing a great job. I don't think the attitudes are what they were back when I joined up. Most of the real problems you have in mixed units is whacko white knight crap from needy guys with terrible boundaries. I love women, but I'm also glad I never had to spend weeks around them without showers down range lol.

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    Default Re: How to help someone who is sexist?

    In my experience, sometimes they can't be helped.
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    Default Re: How to help someone who is sexist?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aniela View Post
    Transitioning between military & civilian life (in either direction) can feel pretty monumental under the best conditions. I would strongly encourage him to get sm counseling, both for any general issues he may be having & more specifically for his sexism problem. If he wasn't this way previously, then the hatred towards women may just be a (deeply misguided) way of channelling his upset over a deeper problem.
    I agree with this, a family member of mine returned from the military a few years ago VERY racist towards blacks and it blew up, he actually purposely swerved his car into a black woman's SUV while calling her a "fucking n*****." He has suffered from extreme PTSD since returning (brought on by both his best friends being killed right in front of him) and has also been using drugs/drinking/getting into fights.

    However, after the accident to avoid jail he was forced to take a lot of "tolerance classes" in which they forced him to watch videos and do exercises and has discussions about racism and diversity... I can honestly say it has done nothing because it isn't addressing the real problem. His racism has to do with HIM and his experiences. Until he is willing to face his demons nothing will change-- and sadly I can't have him in my life until he does that, as I can't be around that kind of anger/violence/hatred.

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    Default Re: How to help someone who is sexist?

    Thats something he was talking about, but he said that single moms are raising boys not men.
    So no matter what, it is a female who is at fault for what is wrong with the males in the world.
    I can see him saying this because of our own upbringing. It is true that my mother made it difficult for our father to see us, but when he did have the opportunity to be present he failed miserably. He always chose whatever tail he was chasing over his kids, and that is fact. He always counters our father's fuck ups with stuff he thinks our mother did.
    its very interesting all the things you bring up, because he even recently told me that he thinks our brother doesn't have the same dad as us. My mom was a lot of things, but I don't remember her ever being promiscuous by bringing men home. She respected our home in that sense, whatever she did when she left for days without us knowing where could be entirely different.
    I think some of his issues are mommy issues as well. He has a lot of anger and hatred towards our mom and I understand that. I live on the opposite coast of my entire family and she is a huge factor as to why. I like keeping her away myself.
    He does think that those are important things for a man to do, keeping his word and all. But he believes that no one is truly a feminist. He says there are no feminists in a burning building or a sinking ship.
    As far as his success with women, idk. The girls he has dated have seemed weird to me. Ugly tbh. Last one he dated was super crazy. He acts even cocky at times though and thinks he can pick up women easily because he knows what we want. I have seen him fail at it miserably twice though. LOL one time I took him out with a friend from work and we all happened to bump into this girl who danced at my club but she was an escort on the low. She tried to pick up my brother and he didn't even realize she was a hooker! lol it was so funny! He told her he was on leave from the army for only a few days so he didn't want to hook up and leave and hurt her. Poor thing. Then he gave her a ride and she asked him to drop her off on a weird street corner and he was worried about her and was all "are you sure this is a good spot?"
    I told him he should consider online dating to narrow down his fields on what he is looking for in a woman or to look into "mail order brides" but he said he doesn't like the negative connotation behind it.
    TLR: Mommy issues, immaturity, lack of real-world-civilian experiences.

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    Default Re: How to help someone who is sexist?

    Loki, IMHO you need to give him time. Show him what a good mother looks like - that may help change his views. I grew up with a bad Mom as well and it is the reason why I didn't have kids until my mid-30s. I was so rigid about what I thought that a good mother was supposed to be that any deviation from that standard disqualified a woman from my consideration. A mother just doesn't get to "[leave] for days without us knowing where could be." Even seeing that fills me with irrational rage that makes me want to slam her stupid fucking head into a wall (wanting is not the same as doing, lol, or else my own Mom would be brain damaged by now), which might clue you in to my own Mommy issues.

    There is nothing more curative than time and experience. He needs time to mature and to gain more worldly experiences.

    Like I said before, good luck with all of this.

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    Default Re: How to help someone who is sexist?

    Quote Originally Posted by lokikola View Post
    Thats something he was talking about, but he said that single moms are raising boys not men.
    So no matter what, it is a female who is at fault for what is wrong with the males in the world.
    I can see him saying this because of our own upbringing. It is true that my mother made it difficult for our father to see us, but when he did have the opportunity to be present he failed miserably. He always chose whatever tail he was chasing over his kids, and that is fact. He always counters our father's fuck ups with stuff he thinks our mother did.
    its very interesting all the things you bring up, because he even recently told me that he thinks our brother doesn't have the same dad as us. My mom was a lot of things, but I don't remember her ever being promiscuous by bringing men home. She respected our home in that sense, whatever she did when she left for days without us knowing where could be entirely different.
    I think some of his issues are mommy issues as well. He has a lot of anger and hatred towards our mom and I understand that. I live on the opposite coast of my entire family and she is a huge factor as to why. I like keeping her away myself.
    He does think that those are important things for a man to do, keeping his word and all. But he believes that no one is truly a feminist. He says there are no feminists in a burning building or a sinking ship.
    As far as his success with women, idk. The girls he has dated have seemed weird to me. Ugly tbh. Last one he dated was super crazy. He acts even cocky at times though and thinks he can pick up women easily because he knows what we want. I have seen him fail at it miserably twice though. LOL one time I took him out with a friend from work and we all happened to bump into this girl who danced at my club but she was an escort on the low. She tried to pick up my brother and he didn't even realize she was a hooker! lol it was so funny! He told her he was on leave from the army for only a few days so he didn't want to hook up and leave and hurt her. Poor thing. Then he gave her a ride and she asked him to drop her off on a weird street corner and he was worried about her and was all "are you sure this is a good spot?"
    I told him he should consider online dating to narrow down his fields on what he is looking for in a woman or to look into "mail order brides" but he said he doesn't like the negative connotation behind it.
    TLR: Mommy issues, immaturity, lack of real-world-civilian experiences.
    To clarify I don't see it as a mother's job to do that part or their fault. It might be sort of analogous to a single father with girls going through puberty and changing into young women though. The flaw in some schools of Feminism is that it does not recognize the animal component of being human. Men don't play with their hair, dilate their pupils and stroke their neck when they like a woman. Women don't slap each other hard on the back and cock their chin up to challenge another competitive woman. My only point is that there is an important place for strong role models for both sexes while they are developing. Many men just sort of stopped filling that role or don't really seem to know how, it is kind of a mystery how that happened.

    What little read I can get on him from your posts says he has an idealized view of women, and that fictional woman is on a very high pedestal. Like searching for a needle in a stack of needles, instead of being happy with how women really are.

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    Default Re: How to help someone who is sexist?

    ^ um yes, men's pupils do dilate when they are attracted to somebody..? just like a woman's, its a human thing, not a strictly female thing :p
    and yes, mommy issues can be a HUGE factor in how a man sees women, just like daddy issues for a woman.

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    Default Re: How to help someone who is sexist?

    You cannot change anyone, but you can live your life like the bad ass bitch you are and influence someone.

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