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Thread: Can a customer be a feminist

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    Default Can a customer be a feminist

    This question is for performers who consider yourselves to be feminists.
    Do you think it is inherently a contradiction for a man to enjoy strip clubs and yet consider himself to be a feminist?

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    Default Re: Can a customer be a feminist

    If a man told me he was a feminist I would just laugh. that doesn't even make sense. Personally I am not a feminist and want nothing to do with third wave feminism. I would say most dancers don't even give it much thought.

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    Default Re: Can a customer be a feminist

    I don't believe it to be a contradiction at all. There are alot of feminist strippers, as I'm sure there are feminist customers, or at least customers who don't look down on women as if they are the inferior gender. If a customer sees a woman as inherently equal to a man, that one is not superior to the other, then that is a healthy mindset. I'm not sure I would call it feminism, as that word has left a bad taste in my mouth now. I would like to think I'm a human rights supporter, not a "feminist".

    But yeah, to answer your question, a feminist can enjoy a strip club just like anyone else can. I don't see any hypocrisy in it.
    "Dancing tables, making deals with devils like a drunk beauty queen"

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    Default Re: Can a customer be a feminist

    Quote Originally Posted by wednesday86 View Post
    If a man told me he was a feminist I would just laugh. that doesn't even make sense. Personally I am not a feminist and want nothing to do with third wave feminism. I would say most dancers don't even give it much thought.
    This. Exactly this. I'd prefer they not, honestly. Keeps me objectified, and being objectified makes you money. I'm not a feminist either and I can not stand the modern day ones.

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    Default Re: Can a customer be a feminist

    I love going to strip clubs as a customer.. and I'm a (very hypocritical) radical feminist/dancer. I have much more in common with the second wave than third when it comes to sex work and this is a crucial part of my identity.

    You and I can be feminists without engaging in 100% feminist approved (whatever wave/school) behaviors at all times. Just don't make the mistake that everything you do is inherently feminist just because you identify as feminist.

    Are strip clubs feminist? I seriously can't see how (yes I've heard the arguments). But will I quit them? Not unless age/finances force me to. I wouldn't sweat it if I were you either, unless you treat dancers unethically on a personal level.
    Last edited by lol1337a; 11-21-2014 at 09:53 PM.

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    Default Re: Can a customer be a feminist

    I would ask the OP what is his definition of a feminist. & how would a male be one?

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    Default Re: Can a customer be a feminist

    Quote Originally Posted by unbeleavable View Post
    I would ask the OP what is his definition of a feminist. & how would a male be one?
    People disagree about what feminism is. Since the OP is asking dancers what they think, he should let them tell him what they think feminism is, as part of their answers.

    I think that if a dancer is a feminist, she is either acting according to her principles or against them, and either way should accept that a customer can be a feminist and do likewise.
    Last edited by Hopper; 11-21-2014 at 07:51 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Athenathefabulous View Post
    we are all perverts in the SC in my opinion. Hes a pervert, you're a pervert, I'm a pervert.

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    Default Re: Can a customer be a feminist

    Quote Originally Posted by Hopper View Post
    People disagree about what feminism is. Since the OP is asking dancers what they think, he should let them tell him what they think feminism is, as part of their answers.
    At this point it's like a religion with 42 different flavors and varying degrees of fanaticism.

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    Default Re: Can a customer be a feminist

    I say right on and follow up with a high five!



    Not all us feminist are terrible people, Wednesday. Most of us just want political, social, and economic equality to men!





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    Default Re: Can a customer be a feminist

    I was once having a discussion with a guy, who said strip club customers are all sexist so I asked him to elaborate. He explained that he was a feminist and I thought what he said didn't make much sense at all.

    Because men like to see beautiful naked women that they might otherwise never get to see without clothes on doesn't make them sexist?

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    Default Re: Can a customer be a feminist

    a feminist is somebody who believes that men and women should be treated equally and with respect…?? i would hope that most people on this board are actually feminist lol, and i would think its awesome!! men can be feminists as well, i think SO many people are really uneducated on what feminism actually is it makes my head hurt!!! no, i don't think its a contradiction at all. i consider myself a feminist, and i don't think its hypocritical of me to dance. i feel no shame and do not think its a contradiction at all. its MY choice to dance and MY body, and me making a choice without being shamed is what feminism is about.

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    Default Re: Can a customer be a feminist

    I never said they were all horrible people. I have feminist friends, though they are moderate. This is something I have studied in depth, actually because I very much believe in equality and I consider myself to be a strong and powerful fucking GODDESS of a woman. I think gender equality has already been achieved. At least women in the west have the same rights and opportunities that men do. We can vote, go to school (actually we're more educated than men are at this point. Women make up most university students.) We can pursue any career that we choose, we have reproductive rights over our bodies (far more control than men do!) and legal protection within our marriages.

    As far as the "wage gap" myth goes, it does not account for men and women working the same jobs for the same amount of time. Women still choose careers which pay less than men do on an academic level. Women work less and are more likely to take off work to raise children. Thus, the "gap" in wages over time for women in general, in all professions.

    As far as women being under-represented in STEM fields it's mostly due to sexual dimorphism and (I hate to say it) I think radical feminists may be scaring women away by constantly insisting that we are "unwelcome" in those fields. I actually found the men in my IT classes to be very welcoming (I was the only female.) My mother and grandmother also went into STEM fields with no problems, so...I really don't know what they're talking about. Most women would rather be teachers or nurses than engineers and even the countless incentives and scholarships offered to women to encourage them into STEM fields haven't worked. I think it's the same reason only 5% of nurses are men. Maybe, just maybe, our brains are wired a little differently and most women just aren't interested? I know, a sexist concept.

    What else? Rape culture? Not completely sure what they're talking about, but statistically rape is at a decline, actually at an all time LOW across the board, not to mention rape is a very serious crime in the US even within marriage. I will say that I'm tired of radical feminists watering down the definition of "rape" so much that the real victims may not be taken as seriously as say, a 22 year old who got drunk and regretted her one night stand. I think these are Hookup Culture problems, not Rape Culture problems. Not to mention that men are raped, sexually assaulted and abused almost at the same rate that women are. About half of domestic abuse victims are men as well.

    I'm putting all of this out there now so I won't have to go back and forth to this thread and debate all day (I have a problem with that.) I'm giving you all the info I've uncovered from my own research and experiences.

    Are there gender issues? Yes of course, on both sides. Yet most feminists ignore issues affecting men and boys. I can't get behind a movement that promotes "equality" while ignoring 50% of the population, especially when my husband and son make up part of that population.

    I do not think I am any less smart or capable than a man is. I don't see myself as any kind of "victim" of society and as an individual I choose my own destiny and take responsibility for my own actions. I don't need to blame the 'patriarchy' or society for my shortcomings. I also understand that I am a woman, I'm feminine, I'm different than a man and it's a good thing. I don't want to be a man or try to compete with them. I don't feel the need to prove myself to them. I've never had a man tell me "You can't do this or you can't do that" but I hear a lot of that from radical feminists.
    "Being a stay at home mom is holding women back"
    "Getting paid to be pretty is holding women back"
    "Being sexy is holding women back"
    "Men don't want you in STEM"
    and so on, and so forth. Yes I've heard all of that and more from feminists.

    I think third wave feminism has become a "movement" of women on tumblr and twitter looking for things to complain about-like Matt Taylor's pin up shirt, forcing a brilliant and sweet man into tears on what should have been the best day of his life. Radical third wave feminists are bullies and professional victims. They do not empower women, and they sure as hell don't represent me or help me in any way. I know I'm not the only woman distancing myself from modern day feminism.

    And that's all I have to say about that.

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    Default Re: Can a customer be a feminist

    i'm sorry, rape is at an all time low?? you are aware that most rapists are never brought to justice, right? 1 in 5 woman are sexually assaulted. and i think its very offensive for you to say that a girl who was drugged at a party or got drunk and was raped without consent was somehow to blame and that it wasn't actually "rape". there are plenty of feminists who care about men being raped, idk what kinds of feminists you are talking about but that's like saying all republicans kill abortion doctors because a few of them did.
    i think its a real testament to the patriarchal culture we live in when "feminist" becomes a dirty word.
    and there are a lot of things to complain about, we are nowhere near equals, sorry.


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    Default Re: Can a customer be a feminist

    Very insightful Wednesday, great post.

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    Default Re: Can a customer be a feminist

    Quote Originally Posted by wednesday86 View Post
    As far as the "wage gap" myth goes, it does not account for men and women working the same jobs for the same amount of time. Women still choose careers which pay less than men do on an academic level. Women work less and are more likely to take off work to raise children. Thus, the "gap" in wages over time for women in general, in all professions.

    <snip...>

    Maybe, just maybe, our brains are wired a little differently and most women just aren't interested? I know, a sexist concept.
    Actually there has been a lot of studies that do account for men and women working in the same jobs at the same time. Linda Babcock has wrote a couple great books on the subjects about how women can be punished socially when they try to negotiate in a job atmosphere and how because men will end up making more money because they are allowed to to negotiate without being looked down as not being a 'team player' or a 'bitch'.

    Since neuroscience points to men and women's brains being wired the same, I'd have to say....yeah that kind of is a sexist concept.
    http://www.cnet.com/news/mens-and-wo...ays-scientist/

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    Default Re: Can a customer be a feminist

    Feminism: the advocacy of women's rights on the grounds of political, social, and economic equality to men.

    By definition we should all be feminists on this website. Whether we want our customers to be feminists is another thing as it could affect our income. That being said, a feminist male customer may be more likely to behave properly and respect your job instead of trying to save you or tell you that you can do better etc.
    What people get confused about when talking about feminism/feminists are the radicals in the group. As with everything, there's always radicals. The fact that women associate feminists and feminism more often than not as a negative thing is a problem because it's self sabotaging what women are trying to achieve. Sure, we're in a better place than we've been historically, but are we 100% on par with men? No.
    There are women who negate the problems that affect men, which is wrong too, however the problems that afflict men are not the dominating issue here. The same way how when people talk about racism and then reply, "well, there's racism against whites too". That's fucking great, but until white people have been systematically oppressed and discriminated against the same way as any other visually non-white ethnicity, the focus will be more towards leveling the playing field so to speak. Until we don't have to worry about getting raped, less pay, less respect, less *fill in the blank* for the sole fact of having a pussy, then women and men are not equal. Will we ever be? Who knows, but we need to stop focusing on "those evil feminists" and treating it like a bad word and accepting it in order to move forward and progress.

    All that to say, I don't think it's a bad thing for a customer to be a feminist. There might be some refreshing conversation to come from the subject coming up.


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    Default Re: Can a customer be a feminist

    Quote Originally Posted by wednesday86 View Post
    As far as women being under-represented in STEM fields it's mostly due to sexual dimorphism and (I hate to say it) I think radical feminists may be scaring women away by constantly insisting that we are "unwelcome" in those fields.
    Could be.....or it could be that we live in a society that sends us messages like Barbie can be a computer engineer as long as she is too stupid to code. (*grins*)

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    Default Re: Can a customer be a feminist

    IDK ... I doubt a customer can be a feminist. Well maybe a small percentage like 20% but the majority are not.

    The ones that I could remotely qualify feminist are the ones who pay full VIP price without haggling the price. They don't hassle for extras/phone numbers/dates etc. and ask before touching and do so respectfully. They get that we are someones mom or daughter and working hard to provide a standard of living and are generous with their cash without all the unnecessary strings attached. They don't ask personal questions. They enjoy watching a quality woman exude her femininity and sensuality and know she's worth being compensated for.
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    Default Re: Can a customer be a feminist

    my feminist belief system highlights the ways that class, race and citizenship interact with gender. so much crap from the past was white women fighting for their own rights, to paraphrase Toni Morrison that second wave ish left out all the domestic workers keeping the homes of newly 'liberated' women. In the first wave some white feminists actually advocated lynching to 'protect white womanhood'. I also see how , in that the sons of Black, Latino and Native women are routinely over-policed and over incarcerated. Racialized women are also over-policed and experience levels of unemployment far higher than white women. Raising a fist here for third and fourth wave feminism that acknowledges that white experience isn't the be all and end all.

    to the OP: I'm a sex worker, a feminist and a consumer of adult services. Where I live every club I enjoy most is a strip club/bordello and I have no qualms in enjoying every moment I spend in em. I tip well, try to be the best client of their shift and that appreciation is reciprocated: gorgeous women flock to say hello every time my guy and I walk in.

    I love it. I love women but I'm a workoholic so I barely have time for my own husband sometimes, let alone cultivating a side relationship. Dance/strip clubs are an outlet, a release, and as long as we pay well, overtip, never push past boundaries and enjoy every moment we all end up happy. I think I understand the pleasure of great clients more because I'm a sex worker myself; my fun and appreciative great guys will never know it but I light up whenever one of them messages me for a show. Every time I go out dancing my aim is to provide a similar reaction, that's an integral aspect of the pleasure of the experience for me.

    'objectification' is hilarious to me. in my off cam life I design websites, do research and promote a development here in my new home. is my mind being exploited? you're starting from a false premise imo, a chica taking off her clothes or grinding on you isn't debasing her humanity, she's simply availing herself of all the tool and resources at her disposal. If you can recognize that while naked she's simultaneously a human being worthy of respect and appreciation, you're in the right head space- however you choose to define it.

    tl;dr pay well, strive to be the best client of her night and enjoy. don't make things more complicated than they need to be.
    Last edited by loveshooks; 11-21-2014 at 03:30 AM.


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    Default Re: Can a customer be a feminist

    Strip clubs exist to cater to male sexual fantasy. Fantasy is about the world submitting to one's wishes. Hence SCs are about submission of women to men's wills. This creates a very lucrative means for women to exploit men's sex drive to take their money. It would only truly be submission if they did it for free. Doing it for money is business.
    Last edited by Hopper; 11-21-2014 at 05:37 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Athenathefabulous View Post
    we are all perverts in the SC in my opinion. Hes a pervert, you're a pervert, I'm a pervert.

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    Default Re: Can a customer be a feminist

    Actually, I think it's the opposite. Men submit to women for THEIR sexual needs. They come to us...





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    Default Re: Can a customer be a feminist

    Quote Originally Posted by audritwo View Post
    Actually, I think it's the opposite. Men submit to women for THEIR sexual needs. They come to us...
    And after marrying them they are sent out of the home to work to earn money for the woman and her offspring.
    Quote Originally Posted by Athenathefabulous View Post
    we are all perverts in the SC in my opinion. Hes a pervert, you're a pervert, I'm a pervert.

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    Default Re: Can a customer be a feminist

    Sure. I've been to a strip club a handful of times. Never alone, cuz I'm a pussy, but whatever. I always overtipped, overpayed for dances, and never groped.
    PS-Still collecting my cuts of the income of dancers I converted to camgirls
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    Quote Originally Posted by xStacey View Post
    Close contact, for an hour, for $40? And I guess I'll have to make conversation with them too?

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    Default Re: Can a customer be a feminist

    Quote Originally Posted by Hopper View Post
    And after marrying them they are sent out of the home to work to earn money for the woman and her offspring.
    It's not the fifties, it's REALLY not the norm anymore.
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    Quote Originally Posted by xStacey View Post
    Close contact, for an hour, for $40? And I guess I'll have to make conversation with them too?

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    Default Re: Can a customer be a feminist

    Quote Originally Posted by Hopper View Post
    Strip clubs exist to cater to male sexual fantasy. Fantasy is about the world submitting to one's wishes. Hence SCs are about submission of women to men's wills. This creates a very lucrative means for women to exploit men's sex drive to take their money. It would only truly be submission if they did it for free. Doing it for money is business.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hopper View Post
    And after marrying them they are sent out of the home to work to earn money for the woman and her offspring.
    I am both the sole breadwinner for my house and a regular strip club customer. I really don't see the concept of "submission" applying to anything happening in either of these venues, at least in my instance. I am not submitting to the will of my wife by going out to work and my club favorites most certainly aren't "submitting" to me.

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