Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 36

Thread: Entering a "male-dominated" field?

  1. #1
    Senior Member Naiad's Avatar
    Joined
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    96
    Thanks
    213
    Thanked 278 Times in 64 Posts

    Default Entering a "male-dominated" field?

    I'm seriously considering the possibility of entering a STEM field that happens to be very male dominated (as most of them are). It's something that would more or less require a college degree to become employed in, and with all the classes I'd need to take it would be at least 4 years worth of school, if not slightly more.

    Aside from the general issues of being employed after sex work, and any of the other bs that may arise from just being one of the only females at work, I am especially concerned that I'd be harassed at school or work, or fired from work if (or more accurately, when) someone finds out about my involvement with camming. I feel like it would be exacerbated by the fact that I'd be working with a bunch of dudes who would be much more likely to find out to begin with.

    It's not a job that requires a state license or anything, and I'm sure I could potentially circumvent the fact in the hiring process, and I wouldn't be working with the public, but I would probably be working closely with my classmates and coworkers so it's more of a social/office issue.

    Maybe I'm being paranoid, but I'm already feeling nervous about a class I'm signed up for next term. Like they might find out and start harassing me etc. Part of me thinks it's unwise to even consider this career, like why would I even put myself through the trouble. The more optimistic part of me says that I can be creative/resourceful and figure it out along the way. It might help that I live in a "liberal" city, maybe, but that usually doesn't mean a whole lot when it comes to sex work.

    In any case, I'm not really worried my ability to find a job per se (although it may require being more competitive), but I am worried about being with a bunch of dudes all the time. I know there's plenty of dudes out there who are chill and not assholes, the most I could hope for is that I would encounter more of them than assholes. I wouldn't really care if a coworker knew about my videos and was chill about it, but it's another story if they're using the fact to try to put me down or be a huge creep, especially if it was like multiple...or most of my coworkers. Maybe I'm jaded.

    I've even brushed away the idea completely multiple times but I feel so conflicted. Unfortunately it seems, that the best paying and most stable fields (not including self employment) that don't require a license, like being a doctor, are mostly male dominated - besides something like accounting I guess.

    I thought it would be timely to post this, since I've finally signed up for the class I wanted to despite my nervousness, and it's starting soon. I'm mostly curious if any of you ladies have had a vanilla career working with a bunch of dudes after doing something like camming or porn, and what that's been like for you. Or if there are any of you who have similar plans, and your thoughts on it. Or any other insight you ladies might have ^_^

    Edit: gonna make some clarifications since my post might seem kind of vague

    -the field I'm interested in is made up of like 90% guys
    -should I work or go to school with them it is basically inevitable they would find out about my camming/videos
    -my main concerns are those surrounding harassment and safety
    -I'd love to hear from those of you who have been in a similar situation or know someone who has
    Last edited by Naiad; 11-30-2014 at 08:37 AM.

  2. #2
    Banned Aniela's Avatar
    Joined
    Jun 2009
    Location
    KW
    Posts
    3,291
    Thanks
    6,920
    Thanked 5,854 Times in 2,242 Posts
    My Mood
    Cynical

    Default Re: Entering a "male-dominated" field?

    PMing you now.

  3. #3
    Moderator
    Joined
    Jun 2013
    Posts
    901
    Thanks
    635
    Thanked 1,519 Times in 585 Posts

    Default Re: Entering a "male-dominated" field?

    Your best defense against everything you mention is being good at what you do. Once you become indispensable it is amazing how little anyone will care about what you do or have done in your private life.

    Worry is the worlds most useless emotion

  4. The Following 8 Users Say Thank You to oldster For This Useful Post:


  5. #4
    Senior Member Naiad's Avatar
    Joined
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    96
    Thanks
    213
    Thanked 278 Times in 64 Posts

    Default Re: Entering a "male-dominated" field?

    Quote Originally Posted by oldster View Post
    Your best defense against everything you mention is being good at what you do.
    I completely agree that being good at what you do is the key to success here. I'm relying on that idea to become employed in the first place, should I pursue this, or at the very least be self employed in the field.


    Once you become indispensable it is amazing how little anyone will care about what you do or have done in your private life.
    Ehhh....sometimes, lol.



    Worry is the worlds most useless emotion
    Not if your concerns are valid and they help you avoid potential problems, and help you think of creative and productive approaches to the situation?

    I want make a fully conscious decision. Part of that is hearing from those who have been in a similar situation. That doesn't mean I'd expect things to play out the same way for me, but I do think it would help give me insight.

    I definitely would like reassurance that this is a viable option for me more then anything else, and it would be nice to hear that my concerns aren't especially valid. Or if my concerns are valid, it would be inspiring to hear directly from those who were successful and didn't give a fuck anyway (I'm expecting to partially rely on not giving a fuck, lol). But I feel like saying "worry is useless" in the context you presented it in is just plain dismissive.

    There are a bunch of girls who come on this forum asking about how camming might conflict with something like teaching and nursing, or if their family members could find out etc, and it's a good thing they do so they can make a fully informed decision. I don't feel like wondering about the implications of working with a bunch of dudes, including bros and guys from other cultures, who will inevitably find my porn, is any less valid or something to brush away so easily.

    I know my concerns may seem abstract and not easily answered, and I'm not looking for easy answers. But I do think this is something worth talking about because I haven't been able to find anything on the subject and I'm sure there's other girls out there with similar questions. In a pm (I won't go into details as to respect her privacy) she mentioned a situation where an ex-cam girl was dealt with professionally in a company that is mostly comprised of dudes, and when the guys in her department found her porn she was transferred over to another department due to safety concerns but still kept the same job title.

    I'll stop here as tempting as it is for me to continue to ramble about the value of emotion and the nature of being concerned, lol. But let me just say that thinking proactively about my future has helped me far more than it has hindered me.

  6. #5
    God/dess SnuffleUffleGrass's Avatar
    Joined
    Mar 2009
    Location
    HearstCastle, Rosebud
    Posts
    8,848
    Thanks
    22,676
    Thanked 17,513 Times in 6,696 Posts
    My Mood
    Angelic

    Default Re: Entering a "male-dominated" field?

    I personally prefer working with men, tragically women are so quick to slice each other's throats (METAPHORICALLY) over stupid things....

  7. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to SnuffleUffleGrass For This Useful Post:


  8. #6
    Moderator
    Joined
    Jun 2013
    Posts
    901
    Thanks
    635
    Thanked 1,519 Times in 585 Posts

    Default Re: Entering a "male-dominated" field?

    Naiad

    I am not trying to imply in any way that your concerns are not valid.

    If you are going to work in a male dominated industry, it would be useful to think like a man, and i will tell you, as a man, we don't make career decisions based on worrying about someone finding out 'bad' things about us.

    My posting is not 'oh you silly girl, stop worrying' it is 'rock out and do what you want and fuck all the assholes who would tell you different'

    Oh, and I have been working in and around tech companies for over 30 years.............

  9. #7
    Senior Member Naiad's Avatar
    Joined
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    96
    Thanks
    213
    Thanked 278 Times in 64 Posts

    Default Re: Entering a "male-dominated" field?

    It's not just an issue of them finding out. It's about the complications that could arise from that.

    It's convenient to say "don't worry about what others think" but when a girl wears a cute dress in public, many guys are quick to say things like "she shouldn't have dressed like a whore" if she gets sexually harassed or worse. Do you see some inconsistencies between that line of thought and your idea of the "mans" view that you shouldn't make decisions based on what others think? Not that I'm saying you believe in the slut thing, but a lot of guys (and oc some women) do.

    I also don't see how that's unique to "thinking like a man." Tons of guys make career decisions that are influenced by what others think lol (like wanting something with prestige or something that will please their family, or not wanting to do something they think is embarrassing
    ) and I personally don't know any women who've made career decisions based off of what other people think, no more then guys anyway.

    Plus we are sex workers, my vag is all over the internet, I actively decided not to care about what others think - to far more of an extreme then most people go - when I went into this.

    Not caring what others think is valid to a degree but it has real consequences. I don't care if my coworkers simply knew about my porn or if we joked about it in a genuinely light hearted and non creepy way, but I do care about being in a potentially unsafe situation. There's always risk in life and that doesn't necessarily mean I wouldn't pursue it anyway, but it would still help me to hear from others who have been in a similar situation.

  10. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Naiad For This Useful Post:


  11. #8
    Banned Aniela's Avatar
    Joined
    Jun 2009
    Location
    KW
    Posts
    3,291
    Thanks
    6,920
    Thanked 5,854 Times in 2,242 Posts
    My Mood
    Cynical

    Default Re: Entering a "male-dominated" field?

    Quote Originally Posted by oldster View Post
    Naiad

    I am not trying to imply in any way that your concerns are not valid.

    If you are going to work in a male dominated industry, it would be useful to think like a man, and i will tell you, as a man, we don't make career decisions based on worrying about someone finding out 'bad' things about us.

    My posting is not 'oh you silly girl, stop worrying' it is 'rock out and do what you want and fuck all the assholes who would tell you different'

    Oh, and I have been working in and around tech companies for over 30 years.............
    Oldster, while I see your point, & fully agree w/ it in theory, practise is nvr guaranteed to match theory. What other ppl think is not OP's concern here. It's what they may be capable of doing w/ those thoughts that concerns her. Your 'screw what they think & just go for it' does come off as a brush-off bc you don't seem to want to address the actions that could come from those negative thoughts.

  12. #9
    Banned Melonie's Avatar
    Joined
    Jul 2002
    Location
    way south of the border
    Posts
    25,932
    Thanks
    612
    Thanked 10,563 Times in 4,646 Posts
    Blog Entries
    3
    My Mood
    Cynical

    Default Re: Entering a "male-dominated" field?

    What other ppl think is not OP's concern here. It's what they may be capable of doing w/ those thoughts that concerns her
    Obviously, someone capable of 'doing something' are prospective future employers. I am told by business acquaintances that there is great reluctance to hire females with a history of adult industry work into so-called 'male dominated' work environments. The reason, of course, is the employer's fear of employee lawsuits from either the female or male employees, over such issues as sexual harassment, 'hostile' workplace, unequal treatment, etc.

    One business acquaintance relayed a 'real world' example. He hired an extremely capable female technician, who also happened to be 'hot' and had a ( brief but unannounced ) adult industry background. Based on a few months worth of exemplary work, he granted the female technician a significant pay raise. This was soon followed by an 'unequal treatment' lawsuit from male employees, who alleged that the true reason for the girl's pay raise was providing sexual favors not work performance.

  13. #10
    Banned Aniela's Avatar
    Joined
    Jun 2009
    Location
    KW
    Posts
    3,291
    Thanks
    6,920
    Thanked 5,854 Times in 2,242 Posts
    My Mood
    Cynical

    Default Re: Entering a "male-dominated" field?

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie View Post
    Obviously, someone capable of 'doing something' are prospective future employers. I am told by business acquaintances that there is great reluctance to hire females with a history of adult industry work into so-called 'male dominated' work environments. The reason, of course, is the employer's fear of employee lawsuits from either the female or male employees, over such issues as sexual harassment, 'hostile' workplace, unequal treatment, etc.

    One business acquaintance relayed a 'real world' example. He hired an extremely capable female technician, who also happened to be 'hot' and had a ( brief but unannounced ) adult industry background. Based on a few months worth of exemplary work, he granted the female technician a significant pay raise. This was soon followed by an 'unequal treatment' lawsuit from male employees, who alleged that the true reason for the girl's pay raise was providing sexual favors not work performance.
    Actually I was thinking more along the lines of OP's physical safety (or any girl in her potential position) … but def this too ^^^^

  14. #11
    Featured Member gameover's Avatar
    Joined
    May 2006
    Posts
    784
    Thanks
    132
    Thanked 246 Times in 106 Posts

    Default Re: Entering a "male-dominated" field?

    I've worked at several Fortune 500 companies in the computer field. I don't think physical safety or direct harassment would be an issue, at least in the workplaces I've been in.

    I think the biggest issue will be the hiring process (getting past any HR screening). If they can discover your background, you might have a hard time getting hired. In that case, you may want to pursue smaller companies where they don't screen as heavily.

    If your co- workers did learn about your background, I'm sure there would be gossip behind your back, but I doubt it would go beyond that.

    The key to being successful is being good at what you do. The nature of technical fields, is that is very easy for peers to determine if you are competent. If you are, then I think you will be easily accepted. If you are not, and you are pretty, then the assumption will be that you got the job on looks, and you'll be in for a rough ride.

    Good luck!

  15. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to gameover For This Useful Post:


  16. #12
    God/dess
    Joined
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    7,964
    Thanks
    6,155
    Thanked 10,183 Times in 4,602 Posts

    Default Re: Entering a "male-dominated" field?

    How could anyone find out about you camming? If you stopped camming, would there be any record of it on the internet?

  17. #13
    God/dess Selina M's Avatar
    Joined
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Omicron Persei 8
    Posts
    4,508
    Thanks
    12,529
    Thanked 13,934 Times in 3,720 Posts

    Default Re: Entering a "male-dominated" field?

    I had a brief stint working in a male-dominated industry (fish and game) and it was a pain in the ass. My boss was probably one of the few who hired girls who were not "butch", and read our resumes before judging us. However, my partner (also another thin, small, feminine-dressing girl) and I spent the majority of our time working with other crews who did NOT think much of girls. While these guys did not know diddly squat about my stripping or lingerie modeling, the fact that the two of us even remotely *looked* like girls, and did not hack our hair off, stop wearing eyeliner and start wearing cargo pants and t-shirts every day, made them eager to essentially haze us. We got a lot of shitty assignments just to "test" us, and they eventually reduced my partner to tears one trip with their bullshit. It turned me off the whole industry entirely (along with the pay being shit... tee hee).

    My takeaway point from that experience was that if guys are used to being a "boys club", they are probably going to harass you and give you a hard time just because you are a female. If they find videos of you online camming... well, I would not be at all surprised if they used that to fuel their fire. It really depends on the kind of attitude they have; I was with a bunch of gun-toting, I-am-Man-hear-me-roar types; you may end up in an office with dorks that are so excited to have a woman around that they fawn over you. You never know.
    I would say go for it, but just be advised that they a) very well may give you a hard time just because you're a girl, and b) they may find your videos and do anything from absolutely nothing, to getting you fired or denied promotions.

    Eagle... cam shows are often recorded and put on tube sites, so yes there is a pretty good chance her videos might be floating about somewhere as it is. The cam girls in Camming Connection say it is very hard to find all the copies that may exist, and then to get them taken down is another battle.
    "People jack off with the left hand and point with the right."

    "You can check out any time you like, but you can never leave."

  18. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Selina M For This Useful Post:


  19. #14
    God/dess lestat1's Avatar
    Joined
    Jan 2002
    Location
    NY Capital District
    Posts
    3,775
    Thanks
    758
    Thanked 1,943 Times in 696 Posts
    My Mood
    Cynical

    Default Re: Entering a "male-dominated" field?

    I went to a, shall we say, "STEM college" with a male:female ratio of 4:1. No one liked that ratio. It made the college look bad, and newsflash, college guys want to be around women. At the risk of offending my fellow stem-men, we are not always the most socially adept people. If you are the sort of person who can differentiate between malicious intent and awkward ignorance, I can forsee you doing quite well in that environment. One last thought. In my ten years as a software developer, I've had six bosses. One of them was female, and she was my favorite by far. She perfectly combined competency with male aggressive leadership and female compassion. She was a straight shooter, smart, and most importantly, she always had our back. More so than the five male bosses I had. I mention it because I forsee you getting a lot of advice tellng you to act like a man or act like a woman, but I think if you blend the best traits of each, you'll be someone I want to work for.
    Quote Originally Posted by _Avery_ View Post
    omg, why is it so huge?!! lol lol

  20. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to lestat1 For This Useful Post:


  21. #15
    Banned Melonie's Avatar
    Joined
    Jul 2002
    Location
    way south of the border
    Posts
    25,932
    Thanks
    612
    Thanked 10,563 Times in 4,646 Posts
    Blog Entries
    3
    My Mood
    Cynical

    Default Re: Entering a "male-dominated" field?

    How could anyone find out about you camming? If you stopped camming, would there be any record of it on the internet?
    Right now, for 'high profile' employers, it's becoming fairly standard procedure to require 'final round' job applicants to sign a 4506-T IRS disclosure form. With that disclosure form in hand, the employer's background check service has access to 1099's ... bearing such payer names as StreaMates etc. This potentially places the ( former ) camgirl applicant in a 'damned if she does, damned if she doesn't' position regarding her decision whether or not to include her adult webcam work history on the job application. If she does, the employer may choose to reject her application outright. But if she doesn't, and the IRS record check shows she has adult webcam work history which she did not previously disclose, the employer may interpret that as 'lying' on the job application.

    Also, with the increasing proliferation of facial recognition search software into the private sector, it's also possible that in a very few years employers' background check services will routinely offer this capability as part of background check 'packages'. That leads to a possible future scenario where 'final round' job applicants may be confronted with facial characteristic match screencaps from tube sites, customer uploads, etc. with the prospective employer asking ' umm - is this you sporting the Hitachi ?'. While this isn't much of a concern today outside of 'super sensitive' employer circles, it could easily become a major concern for girls who are just now embarking on a 4 year college degree program by the time they graduate. Also, if the particular STEM major involves the necessity of obtaining a state professional license, a security clearance, etc., this presents yet more hurdles in the way of future in-depth background checks.

    Again, this is NOT saying that a camming background will absolutely prevent a STEM graduate from finding a job in her field. But it could mean that the door could be closed regarding some of the most prestigious and/or lucrative opportunities ... because potential future employers involved in gov't contract work, cyber-security work, sensitive financial industry work, sensitive research, etc. could decide that hiring a new employee with a history of 'adult' industry work represents a potential additional 'risk' they do not wish to take when other applicants with a squeaky-clean background are available at the same 'price'.

    And, as briefly discussed earlier, in today's litigious environment, knowingly hiring a 'hot' new employee with an 'adult' industry work history potentially opens the door for the employer to be sued for anything from sexual harassment to hostile workplace to unequal treatment. Ironically, I'm told that such lawsuits are most likely to be brought by less 'hot' female co-workers, by lower paid male co-workers, etc.
    Last edited by Melonie; 12-16-2014 at 04:32 AM.

  22. #16
    God/dess
    Joined
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    7,964
    Thanks
    6,155
    Thanked 10,183 Times in 4,602 Posts

    Default Re: Entering a "male-dominated" field?

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie View Post
    Right now, for 'high profile' employers, it's becoming fairly standard procedure to require 'final round' job applicants to sign a 4506-T IRS disclosure form. With that disclosure form in hand, the employer's background check service has access to 1099's ... bearing such payer names as StreaMates etc. This potentially places the ( former ) camgirl applicant in a 'damned if she does, damned if she doesn't' position regarding her decision whether or not to include her adult webcam work history on the job application. If she does, the employer may choose to reject her application outright. But if she doesn't, and the IRS record check shows she has adult webcam work history which she did not previously disclose, the employer may interpret that as 'lying' on the job application.
    I work for a 'high profile' employer and I never had to sign an IRS disclosure form. I signed a form for a criminal background check, but nobody looked at my tax records. My friend was an engineering student and also danced to pay her way through school. She got a job with a major oil company right out of college.

    An employer in a technology field would not expect someone who was an adult entertainer to put that on her resume. Employee prospects are only expected to put work experience related to the position that they're applying for.

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie View Post
    Also, with the increasing proliferation of facial recognition search software into the private sector, it's also possible that in a very few years employers' background check services will routinely offer this capability as part of background check 'packages'. That leads to a possible future scenario where 'final round' job applicants may be confronted with facial characteristic match screencaps from tube sites, customer uploads, etc. with the prospective employer asking ' umm - is this you sporting the Hitachi ?'. While this isn't much of a concern today outside of 'super sensitive' employer circles, it could easily become a major concern for girls who are just now embarking on a 4 year college degree program by the time they graduate. Also, if the particular STEM major involves the necessity of obtaining a state professional license, a security clearance, etc., this presents yet more hurdles in the way of future in-depth background checks.
    As long as you don't have a criminal record, you probably won't have anything to worry about.
    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie View Post
    Again, this is NOT saying that a camming background will absolutely prevent a STEM graduate from finding a job in her field. But it could mean that the door could be closed regarding some of the most prestigious and/or lucrative opportunities ... because potential future employers involved in gov't contract work, cyber-security work, sensitive financial industry work, sensitive research, etc. could decide that hiring a new employee with a history of 'adult' industry work represents a potential additional 'risk' they do not wish to take when other applicants with a squeaky-clean background are available at the same 'price'.
    I doubt that. As I said before, my dancer friend with an engineering degree had no problem getting an engineering job right out of college. People with STEM degrees are usually the ones selecting employers, not the other way around.
    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie View Post
    And, as briefly discussed earlier, in today's litigious environment, knowingly hiring a 'hot' new employee with an 'adult' industry work history potentially opens the door for the employer to be sued for anything from sexual harassment to hostile workplace to unequal treatment. Ironically, I'm told that such lawsuits are most likely to be brought by less 'hot' female co-workers, by lower paid male co-workers, etc.
    I've worked at numerous corporate positions, and there have always been at least a few attractive females, and nobody ever had any problems. From what I've read, being attractive is more beneficial than harmful when applying for a job.
    Last edited by eagle2; 12-17-2014 at 09:44 PM.

  23. #17
    Banned Melonie's Avatar
    Joined
    Jul 2002
    Location
    way south of the border
    Posts
    25,932
    Thanks
    612
    Thanked 10,563 Times in 4,646 Posts
    Blog Entries
    3
    My Mood
    Cynical

    Default Re: Entering a "male-dominated" field?

    ^^^ All I can say is 'that was then ... this is now'. From SFGate at


    (snip)In a weak job market, employers have been asking job applicants for a lot of new information about themselves including, in some cases, their social media passwords.

    But Kevin T. of San Francisco was shocked when a prospective employer asked him to verify his salary by providing a copy of his W-2 form.

    "I recently interviewed for an Amazon position and made it through the three-month interview process and was notified that they wanted to hire me. The first step in the offer process, however, was that I had to submit my previous year's W-2 or federal tax return. Without that information, they would be unable to proceed. After providing them with my W-2, they made an offer that was below the salary range they originally quoted," says Kevin, who doesn't want his last name used because he turned down the offer and doesn't want his current employer to know he's job hunting.

    Kevin says his sister-in-law, a vice president of an investment firm in the Midwest, told him she has experienced the same thing when she applies for new work. "Another friend is the head of marketing at a local company and says this has become standard practice. (snip)

    (snip)""They [ prospective employers - sic ] say, 'I want to know everything about you and I'm going to ask.' Because people are so desperate for jobs they are willing to disclose anything," says Joy Waltemath, a lawyer and managing editor at Wolters Kluwer Law and Business.

    Asking applicants to provide a tax return or W-2 is more common in certain industries, such as financial services, and for certain positions, such as sales. It also happens when a former employer has gone out of business and cannot be contacted to verify employment or salary history, Waltemath says.

    The Work Number, a subsidiary of Equifax that provides income- and employment-verification services, sells a service called IncomeChek that lets employers quickly retrieve a job applicant's tax data including 1040, 1099 and W-2 forms. The applicant must agree to the disclosure by signing Form 4506-T.

    "Tax transcripts are available via streamlined fulfillment in hours through our direct connection with the IRS," the Work Number says on its website.

    Lori Krogel, managing director of recruiting company the Mergis Group, says, "It is a common practice that companies do verify past salary. Normally, it is done during background checks," performed by a contracted third party group.(snip)

    (snip)"The California Fair Employment and Housing Act prevents discrimination on the basis of a person's race, religious creed, color, national origin, ancestry, physical disability, mental disability, medical condition, marital status, sex, age or sexual orientation. Employers cannot ask job applicants questions that would directly or indirectly identify them as a member of these protected classes.

    This law does not, on its face, prevent employers from asking job applicants for their W-2 or tax return. However, if an employer selectively enforced the practice - and only asked members of a protected class (such as women or people of color) to produce the documents, this "likely would violate" the act, says Annmarie Billotti, chief of mediation with the Department of Fair Employment and Housing."(snip)


    The end result is that today's jobs situation provides employers with an 'excuse' to ask for any sort of information they want about prospective job applicants. On top of that, potential lawsuits over unequal treatment encourages employers to ask for the same information from all job applicants ... even though the employer's heightened interest level may only apply to job applicants for 'some' positions.


    In regard to hiring 'hot' female employees, again the potential for lawsuits has become a significant factor ... from

    (snip)"MARYLOU’S COFFEE, a chain in New England, is renowned less for its coffee than for its staff. In tight pink T-shirts and short shorts, they tend to be young, pretty and female. But is that illegal? In May the press reported that the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission was investigating Marylou’s for hiring discrimination. (The EEOC cannot confirm any investigation at this point.) Worse, the papers said the investigation comes without anyone having complained about being turned down for a job. Op-ed writers pounced. A writer at the Boston Herald proclaimed: “Yes, Marylou’s ‘discriminates’. Every employer ‘discriminates’. If they didn’t, I’d be working as a Chippendales dancer.”

    The federal government has no law forbidding “attractiveness discrimination”. Only a few places do: Washington, DC, and Santa Cruz and San Francisco in California. Instead, lawsuits proceed on the fact that it is usually illegal to discriminate on the basis of sex, race, religion, disability or national origin. Customer preference for a certain “look” cannot be the only basis for such discrimination, or else stores in racist areas could refuse to hire black employees."(snip)

    (snip)"Southwest Airlines used to flaunt its hostesses in its marketing (“Spreading love all over Texas”). But court found that, unlike the Playboy Club, Southwest’s business was not “forthrightly to titillate and entice male customers”, but to ferry them from Dallas to Houston. Southwest was ordered to hire men as well.

    Chippendales can go on refusing to hire pasty journalists. But one day Marylou’s may have to choose between claiming its business is “forthrightly to titillate male customers”, or change its hiring practices. Perhaps a few men, or ladies of a certain age?(snip)


    The propensity of 'hot' female employees to ( directly or indirectly ) cause heightened potential legal problems for employers has now garnered it's own term in labor law circles ... 'Lookism'. See . It would appear that for employers to be 'safe' from potential lawsuits, if they are now hiring 'hot' female workers they also need to declare that their business model specifically involves 'enticing and titillating male customers'.

    Where 'hot' women in STEM professions are concerned, with the exception of traditional high female percentage occupations like nursing, all prospective employers are arguably now under increased scrutiny to hire more female employees. However, the hiring of a 'hot' female employee raises potential lawsuit issues over the employers' decision to hire that 'hot' female employee over a less attractive or older employee, raises potential lawsuit issues of the 'hot' female employee receiving pay raises and promotions which her less attractive female co-workers or male co-workers did not, etc.
    Last edited by Melonie; 12-18-2014 at 05:32 AM.

  24. #18
    Banned Aniela's Avatar
    Joined
    Jun 2009
    Location
    KW
    Posts
    3,291
    Thanks
    6,920
    Thanked 5,854 Times in 2,242 Posts
    My Mood
    Cynical

    Default Re: Entering a "male-dominated" field?

    @eagle2 I am not trying to downplay your experiences, but like Melonie said above, 'that was then & this is now'. From your posts, it sounds like you have been in this field for a long time. I don't doubt the positivity of your experiences, but I think you're partially missing the point, which is that, regardless of what field, there is still very much a double standard between the sexes re: sexual activities (sexually busy guys are Studs but sexually busy gals are Sluts). That mentality can cause sm very real safety problems for OP if she is outed, to say nothing of the possibility of a prospective employer finding out.

    I PMed OP this, but I was discussing this w/ my Navy recruiter a few months ago (my adult history: 'can it come back to bite me?'). He told me it's legal, & if I have no charges associated w/ it, then the military doesn't care … then he told me abt a lady that had served on ship under him. She had been a camgirl b4 enlisting, & again, the military didn't care … but sm of her (male) shipmates stumbled on her videos, & recognised her. They ended up transferring her to another ship for her own safety, & her safety wasn't compromised by an ultraconservative CO if you catch my drift.

    A lot of prospective coworkers probably wouldn't care, but you can't deny the fact that a lot of prospective coworkers WOULD care, & that's if she passes a vetting process that is probably significantly more thorough (invasive) than the one you went thru.

  25. #19
    God/dess
    Joined
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    7,964
    Thanks
    6,155
    Thanked 10,183 Times in 4,602 Posts

    Default Re: Entering a "male-dominated" field?

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie View Post
    ^^^ All I can say is 'that was then ... this is now'. From SFGate at http://www.sfgate.com/business/netwo...rn-3530180.php
    Your article is 'then'. It's more than two years old. The job situation has changed since then. Also, it only shows a few isolated occurrences. In fields where employees with certain skills are in high demand, employers most likely aren't going to do anything that would drive away qualified candidates. I read one article where an anonymous person posted in a technology forum that he's an iPhone developer at a start-up looking for a new position, and he got seven offers right there on the forum. I've gotten one job offer just from talking on the phone to a hiring manager, without even coming in.


    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie View Post

    In regard to hiring 'hot' female employees, again the potential for lawsuits has become a significant factor ... from http://www.economist.com/node/21559357
    Your own article contradicts your statement.

    (snip)

    The federal government has no law forbidding “attractiveness discrimination”. Only a few places do: Washington, DC, and Santa Cruz and San Francisco in California. (snip)


    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie View Post
    Where 'hot' women in STEM professions are concerned, with the exception of traditional high female percentage occupations like nursing, all prospective employers are arguably now under increased scrutiny to hire more female employees. However, the hiring of a 'hot' female employee raises potential lawsuit issues over the employers' decision to hire that 'hot' female employee over a less attractive or older employee, raises potential lawsuit issues of the 'hot' female employee receiving pay raises and promotions which her less attractive female co-workers or male co-workers did not, etc.
    No it doesn't, if the 'hot' female employee was the most qualified person for the position. In technology fields, where the experience and skills of employees in certain positions has a major impact on the quality of the products or services they come out with, the most important factor in selecting employees is the experience and skill-set of the candidates, not how 'hot' or not 'hot' a female candidate is. So far, in every place I've worked, there have been at least a few attractive females working there.

    Some technology companies have so much money on hand, they probably couldn't care less about lawsuits. Look at all the time and money Apple and Samsung has spent suing each other.

  26. #20
    God/dess
    Joined
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    7,964
    Thanks
    6,155
    Thanked 10,183 Times in 4,602 Posts

    Default Re: Entering a "male-dominated" field?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aniela View Post
    @eagle2 I am not trying to downplay your experiences, but like Melonie said above, 'that was then & this is now'. From your posts, it sounds like you have been in this field for a long time. I don't doubt the positivity of your experiences, but I think you're partially missing the point, which is that, regardless of what field, there is still very much a double standard between the sexes re: sexual activities (sexually busy guys are Studs but sexually busy gals are Sluts). That mentality can cause sm very real safety problems for OP if she is outed, to say nothing of the possibility of a prospective employer finding out.

    I PMed OP this, but I was discussing this w/ my Navy recruiter a few months ago (my adult history: 'can it come back to bite me?'). He told me it's legal, & if I have no charges associated w/ it, then the military doesn't care … then he told me abt a lady that had served on ship under him. She had been a camgirl b4 enlisting, & again, the military didn't care … but sm of her (male) shipmates stumbled on her videos, & recognised her. They ended up transferring her to another ship for her own safety, & her safety wasn't compromised by an ultraconservative CO if you catch my drift.

    A lot of prospective coworkers probably wouldn't care, but you can't deny the fact that a lot of prospective coworkers WOULD care, & that's if she passes a vetting process that is probably significantly more thorough (invasive) than the one you went thru.
    I can see how it could possibly cause a problem for a female employee, if male co-workers found nude photos of that female employee on a camming site. A lot would depend on the co-workers. I just don't think it's too likely to happen if the female is smart enough to keep everything hidden as much as possible. If someone were to cam under their real name and post nude photos under her real name, then there is a good chance that her co-workers will find out what she did or does. If an entertainer tries to minimize her exposure on the internet, and removes all traces of what she did after she moves on, I think it won't be likely that someone will find out what she did, unless she is unfortunate enough to find out a co-worker was one of her customers.

    The adult entertainers that I know, who moved on to corporate jobs haven't had any problems. I know of one former entertainer who was on HBO, and she has managed to keep her past as an adult entertainer private. She told me she worries that someone will recognize her, and she said that there's been a few instances where someone told her that she looks familiar, but so far nobody has been able to find out about her past.

  27. #21
    Banned Melonie's Avatar
    Joined
    Jul 2002
    Location
    way south of the border
    Posts
    25,932
    Thanks
    612
    Thanked 10,563 Times in 4,646 Posts
    Blog Entries
    3
    My Mood
    Cynical

    Default Re: Entering a "male-dominated" field?

    Your own article contradicts your statement.

    (snip) The federal government has no law forbidding “attractiveness discrimination”. Only a few places do: Washington, DC, and Santa Cruz and San Francisco in California. (snip)
    ahem ... this essentially means that employers have some legal obligation to ignore the 'hotness' of a job applicant, and receive some amount of implied legal protection against employee lawsuits involving 'hot' female employees, ONLY in those specific locations. In all other areas, employers are free to 'discriminate' against 'hot' female job applicants with impugnity ... and are still legally required to maintain a non-hostile workplace, to prevent sexual harassment, and to treat all employees equally, which are far easier for the employer to do without 'hot' female employees in the 'mix'.


    Some technology companies have so much money on hand, they probably couldn't care less about lawsuits. Look at all the time and money Apple and Samsung has spent suing each other.
    Obviously this is undeniably true. However, technology companies do have a vested interest in high employee productivity ... which the presence of a 'hot' female employee in the midst of 2 'average' female employees plus 10 male employees could disrupt.

  28. #22
    Featured Member wednesday86's Avatar
    Joined
    Mar 2014
    Posts
    1,911
    Thanks
    2,498
    Thanked 6,402 Times in 1,573 Posts

    Default Re: Entering a "male-dominated" field?

    Sorry OP but I think you are overthinking this. You haven't even started classes yet am I right? I studied game design/animation and most of my classes I was the ONLY female. All of my classmates and instructors were male. It was not an issue and no one ever made me feel uncomfortable. Maybe some of the young men thought I was cute (I mean I am cute enough to make good money dancing) but none of them said anything "sexist" to me and being in those classes really wasn't a big deal. The instructors just wanted me to learn and do a good job--like everyone else.

    I mentioned this before on here somewhere, but my mother and grandmother were in STEM fields. My grandmother was a professor of Mathematics for nearly 40 years and is also (still) a very beautiful woman. Her gender never held her back. It was never an issue for her AT ALL. She was good at her job. End of story. If you aren't good at what you do, then yes you might have problems in your classes or getting a job.

    As far as your cam girl career catching up with you...Worry about crossing that bridge when you get there. You don't even have your degree yet. It's more likely that it will never come up, than all your coworkers find out and stone you to death in the street.

  29. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to wednesday86 For This Useful Post:


  30. #23
    God/dess
    Joined
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    7,964
    Thanks
    6,155
    Thanked 10,183 Times in 4,602 Posts

    Default Re: Entering a "male-dominated" field?

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie View Post
    ahem ... this essentially means that employers have some legal obligation to ignore the 'hotness' of a job applicant, and receive some amount of implied legal protection against employee lawsuits involving 'hot' female employees, ONLY in those specific locations. In all other areas, employers are free to 'discriminate' against 'hot' female job applicants with impugnity ... and are still legally required to maintain a non-hostile workplace, to prevent sexual harassment, and to treat all employees equally, which are far easier for the employer to do without 'hot' female employees in the 'mix'.
    I was thinking this would also mean an employer could not be sued for only hiring attractive workers.

    Again, in high-tech industries, where the demand for people with certain skills and abilities far exceeds the supply, employers are far more worried about finding qualified candidates than they are about whether or not their male employees would find a female candidate attractive. You haven't worked in the corporate world, so you don't know what goes on there. Most male and female workers want to do well and don't want to get fired, so they treat each other professionally at the workplace, and are far more worried about meeting project deadlines than making crude remarks to attractive female co-workers. I've always had a least a few attractive females for co-workers, and I've never seen them treated unprofessionally. I would say that wednesday86's above experience is typical of female workers in the tech industry.

  31. #24
    God/dess lynn2009's Avatar
    Joined
    Dec 2012
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    3,147
    Thanks
    8,922
    Thanked 7,163 Times in 2,493 Posts

    Default Re: Entering a "male-dominated" field?

    Quote Originally Posted by wednesday86 View Post
    As far as your cam girl career catching up with you...Worry about crossing that bridge when you get there. You don't even have your degree yet. It's more likely that it will never come up, than all your coworkers find out and stone you to death in the street.
    For all the work, time and expense that goes into a degree and building a career I would be concerned about this waaayyyyy before I have to be. She'll have to pass a BG check to get hired in the first place.

    Harassment definitely still does go on. It may be uncommon but that doesn't exactly help those who do have to deal w/ it and I don't think the OP's concerns should be easily dismissed. My first manager post college tried to get me fired after I turned him down. (And for anyone who would wonder I am super plain jane IRL.) There are a couple of other instances of instances that were inappropriate enough that they shouldn't have happened but it didn't really bother me. Aside from legal harassment issues, I have seen women get treated like shit in general. And it depends on the company/group culture. I worked in one (very Chinese) group that treated all the women like shit - all the bitch work, no credit anything that went well and all the blame for everything that went wrong.
    "There are different kinds of darkness. There is darkness that frightens, the darkness that soothes, the darkness that is restful. There is the darkness of lovers, and the darkness of assassins. It becomes what the bearer wishes it to be, needs it to be. It is not wholly bad or good."
    - The Court of Mist and Fury

  32. #25
    Featured Member wednesday86's Avatar
    Joined
    Mar 2014
    Posts
    1,911
    Thanks
    2,498
    Thanked 6,402 Times in 1,573 Posts

    Default Re: Entering a "male-dominated" field?

    ........So the alternative would be what? Don't go into the field of your choice because someday someone might find out about your past job, or act sexist toward you, or some other unpleasant thing might happen? I'm sorry your manager was an ass but is it really the norm in STEM fields? Were you actually employed in a STEM field? That has not been the case in my experience, but I am sure there are sexist female bosses as well as sexist males. There are assholes everywhere but that shouldn't stop someone from doing what they want. Really if ifs and maybes are keeping someone from going after the job they want, they probably don't belong there. My grandmother didn't ask permission, or make excuses, or worry about what men might think or say about her. She just went made shit happen.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Streamate form "certification" field?
    By LittleMissElle in forum Camming Connection
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 09-22-2014, 04:47 PM
  2. Male dominated..........AGH.
    By keira0304 in forum Stripping (was Stripping General)
    Replies: 31
    Last Post: 10-04-2008, 04:03 PM
  3. portland club "field trip"
    By sassysummer in forum Club Chat
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 03-23-2007, 11:25 AM
  4. new customer wants to be "dominated" help?!
    By hazeljames in forum Stripping (was Stripping General)
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 02-12-2007, 11:44 PM
  5. New "type" of dancer entering clubs
    By Niceguy in forum Stripping (was Stripping General)
    Replies: 31
    Last Post: 05-08-2006, 07:47 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •