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Thread: Proposed Ban on Declawing in N.Y.

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    Default Proposed Ban on Declawing in N.Y.

    I'll leave aside anything political about "Big Brother " and the " Nanny State ". I love animals as much as anybody. Generally I am opposed to vanity mutilation - when I saw what my Doberman went through when I had her ears clipped I vowed NEVER to do that to another dog. I've seen Dobies with floppies and they look fine.

    I have a rescue dog and four cats - 3 rescues and a purebred Persian. ALL of whom are declawed. I have a lot of experience ripping up newspaper for them to use in the litter box until their paw paws heal. I know the arguments against it. It's not pleasant for the cat.
    BUT - my cats don't go out so they don't need them for self defense. I tried alternatives for years - training ; state of the art scratching posts with cat pheromones , none of which worked.

    My Vet will not do vanity mutilation - tail docking ; ears etc. but she does do declawing. She says if she and other Vets don't then some people will dump their cats to save their furniture and their legs. And many will stop adopting.

    If this passes I will be VERY reluctant to rescue another kitty cat.

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    Default Re: Proposed Ban on Declawing in N.Y.

    I had my first, and only cat declawed, and I'm sooo happy I did--I still have the scratch marks from when she was a kitten. (she lived a very healthy life, and made it to 17 yrs old.
    They have passed that law where I live, and I would NEVER get another cat because of it, so I know how You feel.

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    loveshooks
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    Default Re: Proposed Ban on Declawing in N.Y.

    behavioral training

    scratching posts

    oooooooooor, you can get the first digits on each paw chopped off for your convenience. if I were you I wouldn't be all that comfortable with what the latter choice would reveal about my character

    in my old city the rescue agencies wouldn't let a person adopt a cat if they intended to declaw them, with good reason:

    "Declawing traditionally involves the amputation of the last bone of each toe. If performed on a human being, it would be like cutting off each finger at the last knuckle.

    Medical drawbacks to declawing include pain in the paw, infection, tissue necrosis (tissue death), lameness, and back pain. Removing claws changes the way a cat's foot meets the ground and can cause pain similar to wearing an uncomfortable pair of shoes. There can also be a regrowth of improperly removed claws, nerve damage, and bone spurs.
    "



    sorry, but how you can categorize declawing as anything other than a vanity surgery done for your own sole convenience is beyond me. Declawing is a series of medically unnecessary amputations performed to make the owner's life easier, it has nothing to do with the health and well-being of the cat. You can ignore the facts of what this procedure involves but that doesn't change the fact that it's painful, invasive and completely unnecessary

    go New York


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    Default Re: Proposed Ban on Declawing in N.Y.

    It is part of a larger problem, overreaching by all levels of government.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...y-to-cupcakes/

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    Default Re: Proposed Ban on Declawing in N.Y.

    Quote Originally Posted by loveshooks View Post
    behavioral training

    scratching posts

    oooooooooor, you can get the first digits on each paw chopped off for your convenience. if I were you I wouldn't be all that comfortable with what the latter choice would reveal about my character

    in my old city the rescue agencies wouldn't let a person adopt a cat if they intended to declaw them, with good reason:

    "Declawing traditionally involves the amputation of the last bone of each toe. If performed on a human being, it would be like cutting off each finger at the last knuckle.

    Medical drawbacks to declawing include pain in the paw, infection, tissue necrosis (tissue death), lameness, and back pain. Removing claws changes the way a cat's foot meets the ground and can cause pain similar to wearing an uncomfortable pair of shoes. There can also be a regrowth of improperly removed claws, nerve damage, and bone spurs.
    "

    http://www.humanesociety.org/animals...declawing.html

    sorry, but how you can categorize declawing as anything other than a vanity surgery done for your own sole convenience is beyond me. Declawing is a series of medically unnecessary amputations performed to make the owner's life easier, it has nothing to do with the health and well-being of the cat. You can ignore the facts of what this procedure involves but that doesn't change the fact that it's painful, invasive and completely unnecessary

    go New York
    Twer it only that simple. Afaic declawing is not cosmetic and I haven't done it just for convenience. I TRIED alternatives. I spent good money on a state of the art scratching post with cat pheromone drops which caused my cats to ignore it.

    I know the procedure and it is not pleasant for the cat. I get it. BUT I've been declawing my puddytats for almost 30 years now and not one has had an adverse result. All lived happy and healthy lives.

    I love my puddytats and they love me. I've had several cats with claws and the wrecked furniture and bedding to prove it. Part of me agrees with the naysayers and if there were a sensible alternative that worked I'd do it. They all have their rear claws and I have the scratches to prove it. That ( declawing all 4 paws ) to me is overkill and even cruel.

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    Default Re: Proposed Ban on Declawing in N.Y.

    Quote Originally Posted by slowpoke View Post
    It is part of a larger problem, overreaching by all levels of government.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...y-to-cupcakes/
    I think we can discuss the pros and cons of declawing without making it political.

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    Default Re: Proposed Ban on Declawing in N.Y.

    Agreed with loveshooks. When I was a kid, growing up with cats, my parents always had them declawed and we never thought anything of it. Until the last cat we got declawed - she now has a constant limp like she is in pain, that she did not have before the procedure. And this wasn't a recent procedure - she's now been permanently altered from having this done almost a decade ago. When my mom finally learned what declawing actually involves - amputation, not just "cutting their nails off" - she feels extremely guilty because she just didn't know.

    Granted, all the other cats we had seemed fine after the declawing - I'm sure a lot of them go on to live happy and healthy lives - but it ultimately is an unnecessary, not in any way about the health of the animal, MAJOR surgery that can have long-reaching, negative complications. The shelter I volunteer at here is the same in regards to the fact that they will make you sign something saying you won't declaw your adopted cat. Yes, most vets will do it, but most will also honestly tell you that they'd rather not. Sounds like your vet considers it a "greater good" sort of situation - not that she actually condones the practice.

    I'm not sure why you think that "vanity" procedures are any more intrusive and cruel than amputation of limbs - which is what declawing is, don't kid yourself. I understand why, as a pet owner, you'd be more prone to make the decision to declaw and save your furniture than you would be prone to justifying ear docking for purely cosmetic reasons. But if you insist on declawing pets, you really have no right to make moral judgments on other people's surgeries involving their pets. It's just as painful and intrusive for your pet, and only for your benefit, same as cosmetic procedures.

    My cat scratches up my carpet sometimes instead of using his scratch box, but oh well, all sorts of shit happens when you're a pet owner. I've never kept pets under the delusion that messes and minor damage could be completely curtailed. Pets damage things and make messes through many other ways than their claws. I don't know why a few scratch marks are any more upsetting to people than all the other stuff they can't prevent, and clearly don't care about, when they choose to keep pets.
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    Default Re: Proposed Ban on Declawing in N.Y.

    ^^^ I know. It's not something I'd want done to me. I understand the arguments against it and it's not something I've had done just for fun. Or to make them look cool. (My last two Dobies both had floppies and looked fine afaic . I've kicked myself for being talked into having their predecessor's ears done by other Dobie owners. I'm embarrassed by my ignorance and silliness at the time. )

    Part of the problem is I have to leave for work and can't kitty-sit all day.

    If this passes it won't be the end of the world but I won't rescue another cat. How many other potential adopters will say the same and decide it's not worth their furniture ?
    How many current owners will dump their cats if they can't be declawed ?

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    Default Re: Proposed Ban on Declawing in N.Y.

    http://www.softpaws.com/soft-paws-cats/

    Didn't read the whole thread but it looks like no mentioned these as an FYI to avoid future declawing.
    "There are different kinds of darkness. There is darkness that frightens, the darkness that soothes, the darkness that is restful. There is the darkness of lovers, and the darkness of assassins. It becomes what the bearer wishes it to be, needs it to be. It is not wholly bad or good."
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    Default Re: Proposed Ban on Declawing in N.Y.

    Quote Originally Posted by lynn2009 View Post
    http://www.softpaws.com/soft-paws-cats/

    Didn't read the whole thread but it looks like no mentioned these as an FYI to avoid future declawing.
    Hmmm. Has anyone tried these ? Do they work ? I've also heard about "kitten mittens" but I can see my cats spending all day trying to take them off lol.

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    Default Re: Proposed Ban on Declawing in N.Y.

    I certainly don't think you have it done just for fun or to look cool. I completely understand the reasons for wanting it done. But I still think occasional damage from claws is just one of "those things" you deal with as a pet owner, same as occasional damage from all the other weird shit animals get up to. Unless you have little Damien cats, I can't imagine they would absolutely destroy your house if they weren't under 24/7 supervision. People don't have their dog's teeth pulled out so they don't chew things.... Dogs chew, cats scratch. I'll take some scratched up furniture in exchange for my cat, and in exchange for not putting him through a painful and unnecessary procedure.

    At this point, it's obviously still your right to get it done if you want. I wish nothing but the best and speediest recoveries on your cats. I genuinely HOPE that you never see a first-hand contradiction to the belief that they all turn out fine by watching one of your cats come out the other side permanently screwed up and limping the rest of her life, like my family has to.

    But ultimately, if NY passes the law, I completely support that. But let's be honest, they probably won't. Bills concerning animal rights usually don't gain much traction. Things concerning clear-cut, obvious animal abuse usually don't even pass. Something like this, where a lot of people will be using the same argument as you.... it's not gonna pass. I'm sure you don't even have anything to worry about in regards to your future plans.
    Don't try to win over the haters. You are not the Jerk Whisperer.

    Your playing small does not serve the world. There is nothing enlightened about shrinking so that other people won't feel insecure around you.






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    Default Re: Proposed Ban on Declawing in N.Y.

    I used to think declawing was a good thing until I spoke to a vet about it and they told me it does hurt the cat. Instead, I get my cat's nails cut once a month and he (and neither did my other cat)rip furniture, tear things etc.

    On the other hand you have the issue of a state telling people what to do. Declawing to me is bad but so is government telling us what to do. New York seems to do that a lot with the large soda bans and all the silliness.

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    Default Re: Proposed Ban on Declawing in N.Y.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Stoner View Post
    Hmmm. Has anyone tried these ? Do they work ? I've also heard about "kitten mittens" but I can see my cats spending all day trying to take them off lol.
    They do work, I know about them because my friend in college used them, she said they were great.
    "There are different kinds of darkness. There is darkness that frightens, the darkness that soothes, the darkness that is restful. There is the darkness of lovers, and the darkness of assassins. It becomes what the bearer wishes it to be, needs it to be. It is not wholly bad or good."
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    Default Re: Proposed Ban on Declawing in N.Y.

    There are solutions to avoid declawing. Make your home cat friendly. There are furniture that cats can't destroy by scratching. Also, clip their nails regularly. Kittens can be trained to scratch posts only. A girl i know has two cats she got as babies and they only scratch their posts and cat tree. Did you ever rub catnip on it?

    My gf has 5 cats and 2 fosters. The home is made for them. The couch they scratch on occasion is not damaged.

    I really don't think no declawing will prevent adoptions. It's people who need to know how to have a pet. It's like children. Children will accidentally spill juice and cheerios all over the place. Shit happens. You can't expect your home to be 100% perfect.
    Last edited by Vyanka; 01-15-2015 at 12:47 PM. Reason: typo

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    Default Re: Proposed Ban on Declawing in N.Y.

    Good points all. Serious food for thought for which I am grateful. I am favor of humane treatment. I'm not crazy about state mandates but I'm willing to look further into alternatives .

    Aurora - Painful ? Probably but I'm working on the "necessary" part of the equation. There are alternatives to declawing , no doubt about it but what if they don't work ?

    Vyanka- I didn't rub catnip but I did use a cat pheromone spray. They liked it. They'd sniff and rub against it all day but scratch the post ? Oh NOOOO !

    Kelly - Regular nail trimming keeps them from scratching ?

    Lynn - Thanks for the suggestion. Worth a try.

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    Default Re: Proposed Ban on Declawing in N.Y.

    What I found out is that having the right scratching post is very important. If you use those cheap carpeted kinds cats will usually ignore them. You have to use a real sisal type. Topcatproducts.com is where I get mine from and my cats love them. They aren't cheap but worth the investment. Start out with one for every two cats you have and place them by their favorite piece of furniture. Rub some catnip on it and run your hand along it to get them to use it the first time. Also make sure to get the one with the sisal base too because over time they actually use that more than the post.

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    Default Re: Proposed Ban on Declawing in N.Y.

    Quote Originally Posted by BobbleHead View Post
    What I found out is that having the right scratching post is very important. If you use those cheap carpeted kinds cats will usually ignore them. You have to use a real sisal type.

    Also make sure to get the one with the sisal base too because over time they actually use that more than the post.
    ^^^this

    my littlest one loves anything sisal or wicker. I was a bit concerned when I moved into my new place this summer as it's furnished in total 'beach style', wicker furniture everywhere. he would have torn that all to shreds in a matter of weeks so I bought him a sizal basket, bought a bunch of matching lids, smeared it with catnip and sprayed non-toxic lemon spray on everything I didn't want him to destroy. the smell was barely perceptible to humans after a day or so, but the boys hated it.

    I use it the basket as storage and just replace the lid everytime he destroys one. he loves it, he'll nap on it and then scratch the ish out of it, and it doesn't matter cuz it's his little corner of the world to destroy as he sees fit. I don't even bother using the lemon spray anymore, it's not needed.

    I come from a crazy-cat people family and I've lived with easily 50 cats over the course of my life (some fosters/strays, some our own). I have yet to encounter a behavioral issue that can't be solved with a bit of patience, love and creativity. a lot of so called behavioral issues are really caused by people who don't understand cats nor care to learn.

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    Default Re: Proposed Ban on Declawing in N.Y.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vyanka View Post
    I really don't think declawing will prevent adoptions. It's people who need to know how to have a pet. It's like children. Children will accidentally spill juice and cheerios all over the place. Shit happens. You can't expect your home to be 100% perfect.
    Exactly!!

    A pet is a living creature with independent thought. He/she is going to do things you may not like sometimes. We don't tie children's hands up so they can't color on the walls, and removing a cat's claws is the same principle to me.

    I have always had cats, and all have kept their claws. The ones that went outdoors never scratched furniture because they would do their scratching on trees outside. The indoor cats were taught to use the sisal post.
    Getting scratched just came with the territory of being a cat owner, and as a kid I learned a) to not do things that would irritate the kitty, and b) to make the cat very tolerant so it wouldn't feel the need to defend itself if someone else irritated it. As a kitten, they'd get carried around like a baby and all manner of weird positions... now a 2 year old can pick up my cat and dangle him upside down by his hind legs, and the cat just looks at me for help... no claws.
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    Default Re: Proposed Ban on Declawing in N.Y.

    It's awesome that you adopted rescue cats! It's definitely better that they have an indoor home where they're fed and safe from teenagers, cars, disease, and predation. That said, cats, being animals, are actually animals. They're not pet rocks. They will do things because they are living creatures!

    My sister runs a cat rescue organization and has four of her own very happy and healthy cats. Every year, she raises, spays/neuters, and adopts out 2-3 litters of motherless kittens that would otherwise grow up to be feral. She has never declawed any of them. Ever. She also won't adopt them to anyone who would declaw them. She keeps their claws trimmed on a weekly basis, basically how you would trim your own nails. She trains them to not scratch on the human stuff, and to use their designated scratching materials instead.

    I promise you, while her stuff may be covered in cat hair, it's not covered in scratch marks.

    It's a lot of work to catch a cat, trim their claws while they vocalize unhappily at you, and then calm them down with a treat. It's also a lot of work to gently condition them to not claw up the couch, and to keep working with them on it their entire life span. But part of owning a pet is making sure their needs are met -- and as their owner, this responsibility is in your hands. Would you shave your Persian bald in lieu of grooming it? If it had discharge issues with its eyes, as some Persians do, would you have its tear ducts removed? Declawing is the same thing.

    I'm sad to hear that you wouldn't adopt a potentially needy cat if it meant you couldn't partially amputate their digits. But I guess it's better if they can be adopted by someone else who will care for them without also maiming them for their own convenience.

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    Default Re: Proposed Ban on Declawing in N.Y.

    Quote Originally Posted by kaninchen View Post
    It's awesome that you adopted rescue cats! It's definitely better that they have an indoor home where they're fed and safe from teenagers, cars, disease, and predation. That said, cats, being animals, are actually animals. They're not pet rocks. They will do things because they are living creatures!

    My sister runs a cat rescue organization and has four of her own very happy and healthy cats. Every year, she raises, spays/neuters, and adopts out 2-3 litters of motherless kittens that would otherwise grow up to be feral. She has never declawed any of them. Ever. She also won't adopt them to anyone who would declaw them. She keeps their claws trimmed on a weekly basis, basically how you would trim your own nails. She trains them to not scratch on the human stuff, and to use their designated scratching materials instead.

    I promise you, while her stuff may be covered in cat hair, it's not covered in scratch marks.

    It's a lot of work to catch a cat, trim their claws while they vocalize unhappily at you, and then calm them down with a treat. It's also a lot of work to gently condition them to not claw up the couch, and to keep working with them on it their entire life span. But part of owning a pet is making sure their needs are met -- and as their owner, this responsibility is in your hands. Would you shave your Persian bald in lieu of grooming it? If it had discharge issues with its eyes, as some Persians do, would you have its tear ducts removed? Declawing is the same thing.

    I'm sad to hear that you wouldn't adopt a potentially needy cat if it meant you couldn't partially amputate their digits. But I guess it's better if they can be adopted by someone else who will care for them without also maiming them for their own convenience.
    Oh yes. Heartless and cruel , that's me. I only care about my own convenience. I and millions of other cat owners have been "maiming ? " our children for decades ? Puleeeze ! That's why I don't mind splurging for fresh all natural cat food. Why I cook them chicken and rabbit. Why I don't use toxic anti-flea products . I'm sorry but I think I've shown an open mind and a willingness to be persuaded. I've TRIED other things and am willing to try some others. I'm not willing to turn my house over to my cats and let them run it. Share it with them ? Yes but it's still MY house and MY furniture.

    Btw- Casper my white Persian does have occasional discharge issues. I give him eye drops. I didn't have his tear ducts removed.

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    Default Re: Proposed Ban on Declawing in N.Y.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Stoner View Post
    Kelly - Regular nail trimming keeps them from scratching ?
    It has for me. I've only had two cats at two different times (the second was adopted a few days after the first died)but yes it has helped and neither cat ever scratched except when they get long and they then scratch part of the carpet.

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    Default Re: Proposed Ban on Declawing in N.Y.

    nailcap-cat.jpg idk if anybody has mentioned this, but you can also get little rubber claw guards..

    my parents always declawed the cats we got, and i didn't think anything of it either..i figured it was like getting your fingernails trimmed down really short, but its really debilitating for the cat, and painful.

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    Default Re: Proposed Ban on Declawing in N.Y.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Stoner View Post
    Oh yes. Heartless and cruel , that's me. I only care about my own convenience. I and millions of other cat owners have been "maiming ? " our children for decades ? Puleeeze ! That's why I don't mind splurging for fresh all natural cat food. Why I cook them chicken and rabbit. Why I don't use toxic anti-flea products . I'm sorry but I think I've shown an open mind and a willingness to be persuaded. I've TRIED other things and am willing to try some others. I'm not willing to turn my house over to my cats and let them run it. Share it with them ? Yes but it's still MY house and MY furniture.

    Btw- Casper my white Persian does have occasional discharge issues. I give him eye drops. I didn't have his tear ducts removed.
    Whoa dude! Chill. I never said you were heartless or cruel, nor did I ever advocate letting your cats run you out of your house.

    Your cats sound like they are well cared-for, truly. In fact, it's awesome that you don't let them outside -- a lot of people tend to underestimate how dangerous it is out there for a kitty. All I'm saying is that declawing is an unnecessary and harsh solution for a problem that can be solved without removing anyone's bones.

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    Default Re: Proposed Ban on Declawing in N.Y.

    We've had dozens of cats over the years. In our heyday I suppose we had 9 or so, that came and went through cat doors, and we didn't even have a litter box in the house.

    I have always clipped their claws when we caught them clawing at things inside.

    I prefer to use human nail clippers as opposed to cat or dog clippers. Human clippers are smaller and it's more difficult to get the claw too far into the clipper and do damage to the quick.

    Here is a pretty good illustration.......

    clawcutting.jpg

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    Default Re: Proposed Ban on Declawing in N.Y.

    Okay, so you won't adopt another cat if you can't declaw it. As a cat lover thats GOOD news, maybe its BETTER if you never own another cat if you can't mutilate them.
    OR YOU COULD ADOPT CATS ALREADY DECLAWED - NOW THATS A RADICAL IDEA. Plenty of owners declaw cats to save their "stuff" and then get rid of the cat for another reason. (that would also save you $400) I have one adopted cat who is declawed, and he went from home to home, so the idea that declawing a cat keeps them from being just "throw out" is so so wrong. Maybe you won't "throw them out" of your house if they are declawed but tons of other people do. Declawing cats might keep people from adopting, but loads of those people shouldn't be adopting anyways - too many people don't understand "forever home".

    I know If I had the option of being put down, or having my fingers cut to my knuckles to live with someone, well I already know what I would choose.

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