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Thread: Dance Prices Getting out of hand

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    Default Dance Prices Getting out of hand

    It seems to me dance prices have increased faster than the rate of inflation. The top club in my area just raised its dance price to $40. The other leading club is still $30. The top club was dead this Saturday.

    I know the economy is not great, but I remember not too many years ago when clubs were packed on weekends. You had a hard time even getting a table. Now, on weekends I think the customers are outnumbered by the dancers sometimes. It seems to me that dance prices have risen beyond the level for a lot of customers to afford them.

    At $40 a pop, it's made me really start wondering if a 3 minute dance is really worth it, and what else I could get for the same money. I don't know who sets the club's dance prices: the dancers or the club? But whoever it is, is getting too greedy, and may be killing the goose that lays the golden eggs.

    I'm just curious if you dancers notice a significant change in customer volume/income when clubs raise dance prices, and your thoughts on the current dance prices.

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    Default Re: Dance Prices Getting out of hand

    This completely depends on the club and the region.

    I just moved from an area where dances were $7. Seven. Dollars. Strictly from a dancer's point of view, I would MUCH rather do 10 dances a night for $40 than 60 dances for $7, even if the $7 dances were easier to sell. Ya feel me? When I see clubs charging $20+/dance, my heart practically sings. Perhaps this industry isn't dying after all!

    My tone here is calm, not angry. I'm more amused than anything else. Personally, I struggle to muster up anything resembling empathy for customers who 'have' to pay for expensive dances. This is a luxury industry, not a value industry. Strip clubbing is purely recreational, just as attending an expensive restaurant is a purely recreational and unnecessary activity (does anyone ever barter with a chef about her prices?). People who can't afford the club's prices should not be in the club.

    Keep in mind, the vast majority of clubs are still using the standard $20/dance fee that hasn't changed since the '80s (which, for those of us who are in denial about the passage of time, was over 30 years ago). Strippers don't get raises. The reason you're seeing a decrease in the number of customers in the club has very little to do with the actual prices of the dances, and far more to do with our economic climate.

    On that note, I'll mention that at some point, the price of the dance can negatively affect the dancers, as customers begin assuming that they'll be receiving more than a dance for what they're paying. But again, this depends on the region. If dances are $40 in a city like San Francisco where cost of living is quite high, then that seems sensible, as the dance price reflects the expensive living conditions of the city. If dances are $40 in Bumbfuck, Nowhere, then this would create an entirely different effect (potentially negative). But I have never seen a dive club in the middle of nowhere trying to charge $40/dance, so I'm not sure my point is even relevant.


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    Default Re: Dance Prices Getting out of hand

    Let's use an example (please critique my logic if I'm missing something).

    As a customer, you've noticed that the price of dances has doubled. It used to be $20, and now dances are $40. You used to come in regularly with a budget of $100, buy four dances for $80, and spend the remaining $20 at the stage throughout the night. Now, with a budget of $100, you buy two dances for $80, and you spend the remaining $20 at the stage.

    If you were a dancer, would you rather do two dances and make $80, or do four dances and make $80? (choice is obvious) If you were a club owner, would you rather a customer spend $100 or would you rather a customer spend $100? (no difference) The customer is the only one who is mildly annoyed by the 'value' cut. So now he has a choice to make. He can choose to go to a nearby dive where dances are $20, but the dancers are not quite as attractive, and the club is of much lower quality. Or he can stop whining, continue spending the same amount of money, and simply enjoy the dances for what they are.

    It's my experience that customers do whine a bit when prices increase (I don't mean to sound patronizing - we all complain about change), but they rarely stop coming to their favorite place. They simply adjust their budgets and visiting frequency and get used to the new pricing structure over time. The only problem the club would have is if a nearby club of the same quality of dancers and environment were to pop up and start charging $20/dance (thus undercutting club #1). This is essentially the exact same problem we dancers experience when an "extras girl" moves into a previously clean club.

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    Default Re: Dance Prices Getting out of hand

    .... HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

    I work in $10 dance land. Do you know how hard that is to make money in when guys think that dropping $10 is a huge expense? They whine about having to pay $20 to get into the "VIP" area with $20 dances where pretty much any touching goes (with most dancers). Gawd. I remind these guys sometimes that table dances in other cities are $30 and $40.

    I think, therefore, it is purely from perspective. Whoever lowered the dances to $10 out here just adjusted the level of clientele that comes in, from white collar guys with money to spend, down to broke day laborers who cling onto their 2 $5 bills like they've got rigor mortis. The white collar guys still come in, but now they spread the money around since they can spend their few hundred on multiple girls.
    Also, it being from perspective, dancers in my area have to adjust their expectations. It grinds my gears sometimes to hear girls on here bitching about only making $400, because that's 40 floor dances here; then I remember that their floor dances are $20 and VIPs are probably $30-$40, so from their perspective, that's shitty.
    But I also have to realize that my cost of living is pretty low; I have a house-sized luxury apartment for $800 a month, so I can still pay my half of rent in 1 shift, while the girls in expensive areas may have to pay $1200 for the same sized apartment, and the dance prices reflect that.
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    Default Re: Dance Prices Getting out of hand

    Quote Originally Posted by Selina M View Post
    .... HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

    I work in $10 dance land. Do you know how hard that is to make money in when guys think that dropping $10 is a huge expense? They whine about having to pay $20 to get into the "VIP" area with $20 dances where pretty much any touching goes (with most dancers). Gawd. I remind these guys sometimes that table dances in other cities are $30 and $40.

    I think, therefore, it is purely from perspective. Whoever lowered the dances to $10 out here just adjusted the level of clientele that comes in, from white collar guys with money to spend, down to broke day laborers who cling onto their 2 $5 bills like they've got rigor mortis. The white collar guys still come in, but now they spread the money around since they can spend their few hundred on multiple girls.
    Also, it being from perspective, dancers in my area have to adjust their expectations. It grinds my gears sometimes to hear girls on here bitching about only making $400, because that's 40 floor dances here; then I remember that their floor dances are $20 and VIPs are probably $30-$40, so from their perspective, that's shitty.
    But I also have to realize that my cost of living is pretty low; I have a house-sized luxury apartment for $800 a month, so I can still pay my half of rent in 1 shift, while the girls in expensive areas may have to pay $1200 for the same sized apartment, and the dance prices reflect that.
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    Default Re: Dance Prices Getting out of hand

    Idk Charlie. I hear what you are saying, but I don't think it's that simple. $40 dances are much tougher to sell than those at $20 and there is no guarantee that the reduction in dances sold will be made up for by the price increase. I think that this is the reason why many clubs fear raising the price above $20. There comes a point where the ouch factor is just too great for something that lasts 3 minutes.

    I club a lot in NE Florida now, in an area where dances are typically priced at $30. In this particular area, even $30 makes them damned tough to sell and the guys who buy them have pretty high expectations. The two nicest clubs in this area have even recently started doing dance specials, at 2 for $50, in an effort to get more people into the LD room.

    Net-net, there is a luxury item and then there is a point where the price is just too obscene for guys to justify the purchase. Now obviously that point is going to vary from one place to another, but I know of few places where $40 wouldn't cause a lot of club customers to pause. And I agree wholeheartedly that once the price starts getting near that ouch point, a lot of guys are going to push harder to get whatever they can from the purchase.

    Anyway, just my fwiw.

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    Default Re: Dance Prices Getting out of hand

    Quote Originally Posted by charlie61 View Post
    Let's use an example (please critique my logic if I'm missing something).

    As a customer, you've noticed that the price of dances has doubled. It used to be $20, and now dances are $40. You used to come in regularly with a budget of $100, buy four dances for $80, and spend the remaining $20 at the stage throughout the night. Now, with a budget of $100, you buy two dances for $80, and you spend the remaining $20 at the stage.

    If you were a dancer, would you rather do two dances and make $80, or do four dances and make $80? (choice is obvious) If you were a club owner, would you rather a customer spend $100 or would you rather a customer spend $100? (no difference) The customer is the only one who is mildly annoyed by the 'value' cut. So now he has a choice to make. He can choose to go to a nearby dive where dances are $20, but the dancers are not quite as attractive, and the club is of much lower quality. Or he can stop whining, continue spending the same amount of money, and simply enjoy the dances for what they are.

    It's my experience that customers do whine a bit when prices increase (I don't mean to sound patronizing - we all complain about change), but they rarely stop coming to their favorite place. They simply adjust their budgets and visiting frequency and get used to the new pricing structure over time. The only problem the club would have is if a nearby club of the same quality of dancers and environment were to pop up and start charging $20/dance (thus undercutting club #1). This is essentially the exact same problem we dancers experience when an "extras girl" moves into a previously clean club.
    I don't question that you'd prefer to dance for more per dance. Who wouldn't? I was just curious if those dancers who had worked in a club where the price had doubled (in my case from $20 to $40) had noticed a positive or negative impact on there income, and if that impacted club attendance significantly.

    I realize dances are a luxury item, but with any item, luxury or not, there is a supply/demand curve that goes along with it. The higher you raise the price, you will be impacted in two ways. Some customers will be priced out of your market. Others may not see a high enough value for the luxury to keep spending on it.

    People may not balk at paying $60k for a luxury car, because they can afford it, and they believe the quality and/or prestige of driving it is worth the money. But you can bet if they doubled the price of the car to $120k that 1) fewer customers could afford it, and 2) some that would have bought it won't because they don't think it is worth it. Car makers try to maximize their earnings by setting the price where the profits are highest.

    That's why I was curious. I wondered if this was a short-term reaction by clubs to declining customers in a recession, that might have the unintended consequences of reducing and their dancers' bottom line, instead of increasing it.

    It already seems to me that clubs had a way of offering tiers of luxury that would maximize both dancer and club income, by offering 30/60 minute VIP rooms for high end customers, and lap dances for the mainstream customers.

    I normally spend 300-400 during a visit, so I'm no hi-roller by any stretch of the imagination. It's possible I'm no longer in their target demographics. However, from my perspective, this cuts my entertainment value in half. For myself, I won't be going back to that club any longer.

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    Default Re: Dance Prices Getting out of hand

    Honestly, I think it's weird when dance prices are the same when I danced originally over 20 years ago. Depending on the club you could usually get a bikini dance for $5 and (once again depends on the club)either a dance for $10 or $20 (oddly the topless clubs usually charged $20 a dance while the nude no alcohol was $10). I know to some $5 sounds cheap but it was no contact. However, the bigger issue is of course men were willing to spend that on dancers. It was uncommon just to get one dance, most men bought several, ten seemed to be standard. Of course things have gone up in price but yet some dancers are being paid what I did many years ago. Makes no sense to me actually.

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    Default Re: Dance Prices Getting out of hand

    OP - did this club also change the prices of its upsell options? I'm wondering what the club's strategy is here. Could they be trying to make the champagne room / VIP a more attractive offer by increasing dance prices? Has the club changed anything else recently (remodel, image change, new girls)?

    There is an interesting distinction between a club that has always charged $40/dance and a club that goes from charging $20 to $40. The latter will definitely experience some growing pains as it alienates some clientele and begins to attract a different clientele. They're bound to struggle a bit in the short term, but I would bet that's a temporary effect. It's impossible to tell what will happen without knowing other details (city, club's location relative to airports and whatnot, whether the club will be changing anything else, etc.)

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    Default Re: Dance Prices Getting out of hand

    I've worked in $10 dance clubs and $50 dance clubs, and I'd say the sweet spot is $30. They're still an easy sell and I don't have to give 8382628494 dances a night to meet my goals.

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    Default Re: Dance Prices Getting out of hand

    Quote Originally Posted by Tsepmet1 View Post
    I've worked in $10 dance clubs and $50 dance clubs, and I'd say the sweet spot is $30. They're still an easy sell and I don't have to give 8382628494 dances a night to meet my goals.
    I think it can also be nice when there is more than one option, and the differences between the dance types are enforced. So like a $20 topless dance in a semi-private area vs. a $40 nude dance in a private area (contact may vary as well, though that's harder to police). And then of course a CR/VIP option where a chunk of time can be purchased.

    I'm going post crazy today! I'll be quiet for a while.

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    Default Re: Dance Prices Getting out of hand

    Charlie, I don't know if the VIP pricing has changed. Maybe they are trying to make those more enticing. They are also considered to be the nicest club in town, and their dance prices were cheaper than at the second nicest club, so maybe they figured that they would raise it above the #2 club to reflect that.

    Kelly, I live in a blue collar town, and frankly, the dances haven't even been $20 for really all that long. I understand that in many clubs dancers don't get to keep the total dance price. But at $40/song, that works out to an hourly rate of $800. Even doctors don't charge that much.

    I don't begrudge anyone from charging $40/dance. If you can do that, more power to you. And if I could, I would too. I was just wondering if that really increased dancer income, or if they just had to dance less and made the same, or even reduced their income.

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    Default Re: Dance Prices Getting out of hand

    Quote Originally Posted by gameover View Post
    Kelly, I live in a blue collar town, and frankly, the dances haven't even been $20 for really all that long. I understand that in many clubs dancers don't get to keep the total dance price. But at $40/song, that works out to an hourly rate of $800. Even doctors don't charge that much.
    (I know I said I'd shut up, but...)

    Be careful comparing dancing to any other 'normal' career. Dancers are independent contractors. They're paying their own taxes, paying for their own healthcare, don't have sick leave or vacation days, and don't have 401K matching or any of the other substantial benefits that come with other career paths. The vast majority of girls also cannot work more than a few days out of every week, for a variety of reasons (largely due to how emotionally and physically exhausting the job is). Dancers are not guaranteed a salary, either, thus they are always working with a certain level of anxiety about their income. Also, the vast majority of dancers are not making money 60 minutes out of every hour they're working, so you absolutely cannot turn $40 dances into an hourly rate and try to compare that to a doctor's salary / rate. It's much more reasonable to come up with a shift rate if you're trying to figure out what a dancer is making. For example, a hard-working stripper might make $800 in an hour and then not make anything for the rest of her eight-hour shift. The next day she goes in to work, she might only make $200 throughout her shift.


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    Default Re: Dance Prices Getting out of hand

    Quote Originally Posted by charlie61 View Post
    (I know I said I'd shut up, but...)

    Be careful comparing dancing to any other 'normal' career. Dancers are independent contractors. They're paying their own taxes, paying for their own healthcare, don't have sick leave or vacation days, and don't have 401K matching or any of the other substantial benefits that come with other career paths. The vast majority of girls also cannot work more than a few days out of every week, for a variety of reasons (largely due to how emotionally and physically exhausting the job is). Dancers are not guaranteed a salary, either, thus they are always working with a certain level of anxiety about their income. Also, the vast majority of dancers are not making money 60 minutes out of every hour they're working, so you absolutely cannot turn $40 dances into an hourly rate and try to compare that to a doctor's salary / rate. It's much more reasonable to come up with a shift rate if you're trying to figure out what a dancer is making. For example, a hard-working stripper might make $800 in an hour and then not make anything for the rest of her eight-hour shift. The next day she goes in to work, she might only make $200 throughout her shift.
    I understand that is a theoretical maximum. But doctors have similar issues to dancers. Most doctors are self-employed. They pay their own taxes, and healthcare. They don't get paid vacations. They also have to pay off 9 years of student loans. They aren't guaranteed income for every hour of their day. If they have no appointments, they have no income. Plus, they have to pay for the overhead of their offices, and pay salaries for their nurses and receptionists. I understand that dancing is stressful, but I would argue that being a doctor is equally stressful--they are dealing with peoples lives, plus all of the stress of running a business and managing other people.

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    Default Re: Dance Prices Getting out of hand

    Quote Originally Posted by gameover View Post
    I understand that is a theoretical maximum. But doctors have similar issues to dancers. Most doctors are self-employed. They pay their own taxes, and healthcare. They don't get paid vacations. They also have to pay off 9 years of student loans. They aren't guaranteed income for every hour of their day. If they have no appointments, they have no income. Plus, they have to pay for the overhead of their offices, and pay salaries for their nurses and receptionists. I understand that dancing is stressful, but I would argue that being a doctor is equally stressful--they are dealing with peoples lives, plus all of the stress of running a business and managing other people.
    I disagree (says the girl with multiple doctors in her immediate family). But I know this is a threadjack, so I'll instead encourage us get back to the topic at hand.

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    Default Re: Dance Prices Getting out of hand

    Quote Originally Posted by charlie61 View Post
    Let's use an example (please critique my logic if I'm missing something).


    If you were a dancer, would you rather do two dances and make $80, or do four dances and make $80? (choice is obvious) If you were a club owner, would you rather a customer spend $100 or would you rather a customer spend $100? (no difference) The customer is the only one who is mildly annoyed by the 'value' cut. So now he has a choice to make. He can choose to go to a nearby dive where dances are $20, but the dancers are not quite as attractive, and the club is of much lower quality. Or he can stop whining, continue spending the same amount of money, and simply enjoy the dances for what they are.
    If the customer comes in with $100 to spend on Whiskey N Wimmin, would the club owner prefer the customer to spend the $100 on Whiskey or on Wimmin?

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    Default Re: Dance Prices Getting out of hand

    It's simple really, if you & other men are gonna scoff & wanna haggle about dance prices stay home. Time spent with a dancer is a luxury, get over it.
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    Default Re: Dance Prices Getting out of hand

    If you're not happy with the price increase, go some where else then. Respect their price. Other "geese" have no problem.

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    Default Re: Dance Prices Getting out of hand

    Quote Originally Posted by slowpoke View Post
    If the customer comes in with $100 to spend on Whiskey N Wimmin, would the club owner prefer the customer to spend the $100 on Whiskey or on Wimmin?
    Hahaha!

    It's a really good question. Depends highly on how much of a cut the club takes from each dance. OP - do you know what the club's cut is?

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    Default Re: Dance Prices Getting out of hand

    Quote Originally Posted by charlie61 View Post
    (I know I said I'd shut up, but...)

    Be careful comparing dancing to any other 'normal' career. Dancers are independent contractors. They're paying their own taxes, paying for their own healthcare, don't have sick leave or vacation days, and don't have 401K matching or any of the other substantial benefits that come with other career paths. The vast majority of girls also cannot work more than a few days out of every week, for a variety of reasons (largely due to how emotionally and physically exhausting the job is). Dancers are not guaranteed a salary, either, thus they are always working with a certain level of anxiety about their income. Also, the vast majority of dancers are not making money 60 minutes out of every hour they're working, so you absolutely cannot turn $40 dances into an hourly rate and try to compare that to a doctor's salary / rate. It's much more reasonable to come up with a shift rate if you're trying to figure out what a dancer is making. For example, a hard-working stripper might make $800 in an hour and then not make anything for the rest of her eight-hour shift. The next day she goes in to work, she might only make $200 throughout her shift.
    Don't forget the house fees and tip outs too.

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    Default Re: Dance Prices Getting out of hand

    Quote Originally Posted by xxxGothBarbie View Post
    It's simple really, if you & other men are gonna scoff & wanna haggle about dance prices stay home. Time spent with a dancer is a luxury, get over it.
    Fair enough. Just don't whine if the club is empty and there are no customers.

    For the record, I don't try to haggle over dance prices with a dancer. I just won't buy them if they are too high. I'll switch to a different club, so no harm to me. I just wonder how you would react if that luxury restaurant you enjoy doubled their prices overnight.

    My question was just if a big price change like that has a positive/neutral/negative impact on dancer income and club attendance.

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    Default Re: Dance Prices Getting out of hand

    OP - instead of posting your opinion about dance prices (which all but guaranteed a negative response from a community of dancers), why didn't you just post your surprisingly simple and legitimate question?

    This is all you should have posted if you wanted a useful discussion of your topic:

    "I'm just curious if you dancers notice a significant change in customer volume/income when clubs raise dance prices, and your thoughts on the current dance prices."

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    Default Re: Dance Prices Getting out of hand

    Quote Originally Posted by gameover View Post
    Fair enough. Just don't whine if the club is empty and there are no customers.
    If that's the case, strippers go where the money is at. They don't stay in a non-spending club.

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    Default Re: Dance Prices Getting out of hand

    Somebody call a Waaaaaaaaaabulance seriously...
    The only way to get rid of a temptation is to indulge in it...


    ~I have no roots. I stay away from groups and communities. I wander, an itinerant lone wolf. I have nowhere to go back to. I either burn the bridges or keep walking. I never look back. I detach and vanish. In my mind, I am not human. I am a machine at the service of a madman that snatched my body and invaded my being when I was very young~




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  41. #25
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    Default Re: Dance Prices Getting out of hand

    There must be a lot of golden geese spending a lot of money really often to make up for the many average to above average spenders that may decide to go elsewhere after seeing a 100% increase in the cost of dances. I wish I had that type of bread to not care about the difference between a $20 and $40 dance.

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