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Thread: $15,000???

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    Default $15,000???

    Where do I put it? Don't plan on touching it for at least 10 years. Id like a 4-6 % rate of return and I have very low risk tolerance. What's best for me? I'm clueless and weary of financial advisors and insurance agents who want to sell me products. Commission is a mutha.

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    Default Re: $15,000???

    I would suggest to buy a "no load" mutual fund. Since you have low risk tolarence, I would stick to well known mutual fund companies like Fidelity or Vanguard, etc. You may visit a Fidelity office or call Vanguard 800 number. They will help you. Please note that I have no connections with these firms - I only mentioned these because they are big and have good reputations.

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    Default Re: $15,000???

    If you can hold of on using some, or all of the money until you're in your 50's, a Roth IRA would be a good place to put it. You'll save a great deal of money in capital gains tax. I think the maximum you can put in a Roth IRA in one year is $5,000. If you don't know much about investing and don't want to pay much for commission, I recommend an S & P 500 index fund. There really aren't any safe investments or places to put your money that will give you much more than one half of a percent interest.

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    Default Re: $15,000???

    Pure. haven't seen you around in a while. How are you?

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    Default Re: $15,000???

    Subscribing! I've always wondered what to do with chunks of money like this. I'm investing-tarded (I've read books on the topic and didn't retain a thing).

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    Default Re: $15,000???

    Quote Originally Posted by Welldo View Post
    I would suggest to buy a "no load" mutual fund. Since you have low risk tolarence, I would stick to well known mutual fund companies like Fidelity or Vanguard, etc. You may visit a Fidelity office or call Vanguard 800 number. They will help you. Please note that I have no connections with these firms - I only mentioned these because they are big and have good reputations.
    These are the two best for mutual fund investing. Vanguard more so than fidelity, but either is good. I have an ex who is an executive with fidelity so this is how I know. I've asked him before on his opinion of investing chunks of money and that was his answer. Those are the safest to go with.
    Last edited by anacol; 02-09-2015 at 03:19 PM.
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    Default Re: $15,000???

    Some investment pundits now recommend following an entirely different 'tack' ... see

    In regard to the use of SEP IRA's, conventional IRA's, Roth IRA's etc., agreed that the Roth IRA poses the lowest future 'risk' factor. This is because the money contributed to Roth IRA's has already been taxed as current year income ... thus any future rule changes in the treatment of Roth IRA accrued interest and dividend earnings can ( hopefully ) only affect those untaxed interest and dividend earnings. With SEP and conventional IRA's, the contributed money - as well as accrued interest and dividend earnings - is tax DEFERRED ... meaning that any future rule changes could potentially be much more 'painful'.

    I would point out that, other than a different intended purpose ( education vs retirement ), Roth IRA's and 529 plans have a very similar structure i.e. contributions are taxed but accrued dividend and interest earnings are not. However, a couple of serious proposals for rule changes to 529 plans are now being floated which would render those supposedly tax exempt dividend and interest earnings taxable. The point, of course, is that any of these tax favored gov't programs involve some element of 'risk' that the rules can be changed after you have already started 'playing the game'.

    Also, in the way of full disclosure, I have a brokerage account with Vanguard. I consider them to have a lower 'risk' factor than many other brokerage options involving major banks ... because Vanguard ( as well as Fidelity etc. ) do NOT conduct 'proprietary trading', do NOT write 'swap' contracts, 'futures' contracts etc. on the bank's own behalf.
    Last edited by Melonie; 02-09-2015 at 08:29 AM.

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    Default Re: $15,000???

    Hi Melonie, Missed you!

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    Default Re: $15,000???

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie View Post

    Also, in the way of full disclosure, I have a brokerage account with Vanguard. I consider them to have a lower 'risk' factor than many other brokerage options involving major banks ... because Vanguard ( as well as Fidelity etc. ) do NOT conduct 'proprietary trading', do NOT write 'swap' contracts, 'futures' contracts etc. on the bank's own behalf.
    I have mutual funds with Vanguard, T Rowe Price, and American Century.

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    Default Re: $15,000???

    Hello Melonie!!!!

    & I agree with Melonie's suggestion.

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    Default Re: $15,000???

    I have my accounts with schwab. Most options and cheapest to invest. You can have multiple accounts Investing/rollover IRA, Roth etc all linked with a schwab checking for tranfers. Also with a schwab account, you get better home loans thru Quicken loans.. All nicely linked.
    I put my inlaws in schwab managed account where there annual fee went from 2% of assets to 0.5%. Big savings.

    I do my own portfolio management and schwab gives you tools to manage/balance your accounts easily with Investment risk targets of aggressive... moderate .. conservative.

    I NEVER do Mutual Funds. The management fee is high and they rarely are consistent. I do ETFs with the proper allocations among Large cap, small cap, and international.

    I do NOT do bond funds in this interest environment. They are far too risky if rates go up. But I want a return, So I went with a lot of preferred stocks in quality companies yielding 5-6% in dividends. Of those 50% is in REIT preferred stocks.

    Since you are young and have time and starting out. An Aggressive portfolio would put
    Large cap ETF 50%
    Mid/Small cap ETF 25%
    International ETF 25%

    Below are some of the investments in my account since rebalancing in January.
    Positions for account

    Symbol Description
    SCHW+B CHARLES SCHWAB C 6% PFD PFD DUE 12/31/99
    DLR+F DIGITAL REAL 6.625% PFD PFD SER F DUE 12/31/99
    DLR+E DIGITAL REALTY T 7% PFD PFD SER E DUE 09/15/99
    DFS+B DISCOVER FINL 6.5% PFD PFD SER B DUE 12/31/99
    FCX FREEPORT MCMORAN INC
    GE GENERAL ELECTRIC COMPANY
    KIM+K KIMCO REALTY 5.625% PFD PFD
    MCK MCKESSON CORPORATION
    ORCL ORACLE CORPORATION
    PWE PENN WEST PETE LTD NEW F
    PNC+Q PNC FINL SVC 5.375% PFD PFD SER Q
    POT POTASH CORP SASK INC F
    PJH PRUDENTIAL FINL 5.75%PFD DUE 12/15/52 SUBJ TO XTRO REDEMPTION
    TWX TIME WARNER INC NEW
    VZ VERIZON COMMUNICATIONS
    VNO+L VORNADO REALTY 5.4% PFD PFD SER L DUE 01/25/99
    AINV APOLLO INVESTMENT CORP
    ARKQ ARK ETF TR INDL INNOVATION
    HACK FACTORSHARES TRUST ETF PUREFUNDS ISE CYBER SEC
    CQQQ GUGGENHEIM EXCH TRD FD CHINA TECHNOLOGY
    DVY ISHARES SELECT DIVIDEND ETF
    ILF ISHARES TR LATIN AMER LATIN AMERICA 40 ETF
    PIN POWERSHARES INDIA ETF
    QQQ POWERSHS QQQ TRUST SER 1
    SCHD SCH US DIV EQUITY ETF
    CWB SPDR BARCLAYS ETF CONVERTIBLE BOND GREATER THEN $500MM IDX
    GXC SPDR S&P CHINA ETF
    SDY SPDR S&P DIVIDEND ETF
    GML SPDR S&P EMERGING LATIN AMERICA ETF
    FEU SPDR STOXX EUR 50 ETF
    DFE WISDOMTREE EUR SMCAP DIV EUROPE SMALLCAP DIVIDEND
    EPI WISDOMTREE INDIA EARNING

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    Default Re: $15,000???

    ^^^ wow, talk about full disclosure !!!

    On a side note, I like your 'faith' in India's economy ... I'm giving India ETF's some serious thought myself as a potential 'safe' way to diversify out of the US dollar while US dollar 'purchasing power' remains unusually strong !

    PS I hope you picked up FCX at a real 'bargain' price during their recent pullbacks. If they don't cut dividends, FCX might be a real 'winner' if copper, gold, and oil prices all start recovering.


    I NEVER do Mutual Funds. The management fee is high and they rarely are consistent
    Same here, with one exception. Vanguard et all do offer mutual funds which consist of multiple tax free muni bonds issued by individual high tax rate states. If one wishes to invest in muni's as a play against high federal + state tax rates, these mutual funds offer the only 'affordable' entry into that market.
    Last edited by Melonie; 02-25-2015 at 04:47 AM.

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    Default Re: $15,000???

    subscribing as well

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    Default Re: $15,000???

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie View Post
    ^^^ wow, talk about full disclosure !!!

    On a side note, I like your 'faith' in India's economy ... I'm giving India ETF's some serious thought myself as a potential 'safe' way to diversify out of the US dollar while US dollar 'purchasing power' remains unusually strong !

    PS I hope you picked up FCX at a real 'bargain' price during Precent pullbacks. If they don't cut dividends, FCX might be a real 'winner' if copper, gold, and oil prices all start recovering.




    Same here, with one exception. Vanguard et all do offer mutual funds which consist of multiple tax free muni bonds issued by individual high tax rate states. If one wishes to invest in muni's as a play against high federal + state tax rates, these mutual funds offer the only 'affordable' entry into that market.
    So nice to see you still here. Like I said years before, you should be a financial planner.

    I swooped in on FCX at bottom and picked up a nice 9.5% bounce so far. Also added POT . Internationals YTD have done very well and I avoid Russia. I have maybe 5% in India and it seems their banks are doing well.So it can bounce around with no real damage. I just want 25% in International.

    I am really liking the Preferreds but made sure I bought at Par or below so I don't have a loss on call. Still they are subject to Interest Rate Risk but not as much as LT bonds given current yield. If I am going to get f..ked on an interest rate hike, I want to get kissed for awhile and 5-6% makes it worth it.

    My AINV +9%, HACK +12%, and ARKQ+6% are little bets for a little fun.

    If you are going to do muni's why not buy and hold direct? I have some bonds like the GENERAL ELECTRIC 5.4%17 DUE 02/15/17 I picked up when everything crashed. I just like to know my due date and not have a rolling one you get with a bond fund (exception CWB ETF).

    Are using Quantumonline.com for your research.

    Based on news of HP splitting into 2 companies and coming into 3d printing market in 2 years, I will prob pick it up on a drop today in the opening. What do you think?
    Last edited by Sitri; 02-25-2015 at 07:23 AM.

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    Default Re: $15,000???

    If you are going to do muni's why not buy and hold direct? I have some bonds like the GENERAL ELECTRIC 5.4%17 DUE 02/15/17 I picked up when everything crashed.
    The 'problem' with state specific muni bond direct buys is lack of diversification = potential default risk by one particular municipality. At ~$5k per bond, I'd have to get in much 'deeper' than I really want to in order to achieve any sort of effective diversification. The mutual fund obviously owns thousands of different muni bonds from hundreds of different municipalities thus individual default risk is well diversified ... and I can only get in as 'deep' as I want given that 100 share blocks run like $1200 .


    Based on news of HP splitting into 2 companies and coming into 3d printing market in 2 years, I will prob pick it up on a drop today in the opening. What do you think?
    My 'acquaintances' are of the opinion that anything involving 3D printing is a 'crap shoot'. And it would appear that this morning's HP nosedive hasn't even thought about a 'dead cat bounce' yet. So double 'crap shoot'.


    If I am going to get f..ked on an interest rate hike, I want to get kissed for awhile and 5-6% makes it worth it.
    Yup true enough both on bonds and dividend stocks it seems.


    Internationals YTD have done very well and I avoid Russia
    my 'acquaintances' have been putting a little spec money into RUSL, on the presumption that Russia's economic troubles are overblown.
    Last edited by Melonie; 02-25-2015 at 09:02 AM.

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    Default Re: $15,000???

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie View Post
    my 'acquaintances' have been putting a little spec money into RUSL, on the presumption that Russia's economic troubles are overblown.
    Russia's economy is practically entirely based on how high or low the price of oil is.

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    Default Re: $15,000???

    ^^^ Oil and gas price levels are certainly big factors in Russia's economy, but so is the production of weapons for export !!! If the former are bottoming, and the latter is growing rapidly, that's arguably a setup for a major improvement in the Russian economy. However, as I posted earlier, anything involving Russia is highly speculative ... i.e. a 'gamble' as opposed to an 'investment'.

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    Default Re: $15,000???

    Go buy yourself an deferrable fixed rate annuity. The credit rates for those products just dropped a little. Anything thing I would suggested is exchange your dollars into euro. Euro has dropped about 30%

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    Default Re: $15,000???

    ^^^ I'll agree that there will be a good (re)entry point for the Euro ... but probably not until it hits parity with the US dollar ( which the pundits are predicting will happen within the next few months ).

    Deferrable fixed rate annuities can be an 'interesting' option ... particularly for high earners living in high tax rate states. However, the attractiveness of these products, like 401k's and IRA's, depends to some degree on future tax laws not changing in major ways ( i.e. future introduction of means testing of Social Security benefits, with every dollar of annuity withdrawls 'costing' 50 cents worth of Social Security payments, etc. ). There are also all sorts of complicated rules regarding penalty-free withdrawls, nursing home / terminal illness waivers, 'market value' adjustments etc. The minimum buy-in can also be quite 'steep'. And, finally, the only 'backing' for such an annuity is the ongoing solvency of the insurance company which sells them. IMHO not a product to recommend for 'amateur' investors.

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    Default Re: $15,000???

    Buying a fixed annuity from an insurance company just like deposit money in the bank. Should be the easiest option out there. You don't have the tax advantage for these type of investment but you also do need to report to big brother about the dividend and payments. To exchange euro...I haven't found a good place to do that yet. The Banks here put too much overhead cost, admin fee, assumption pads on the rate itself make it a less attractive deal. But still, better than before. I am going to euro a few months later. So I exchanged a few thousands of it.

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    Default Re: $15,000???

    The thread is a little old but if OP was still looking for advice: Earlier posters are correct that if you invest your money just in something that bears interest (so a CD, or a money market account, or something like that), your return will be minimal - 1% or less. If your time horizon is 10 years, and you would like to earn at least 4-6%, then I think investing in equities (stocks) is the right spot.

    The simplest thing to invest in, as a couple of people have said, are stocks in index funds (these are sometimes called "ETFs" or "Exchange Traded Funds"). An index fund is an investment company that makes investments in a collection of different companies. So by purchasing that one stock, you are really getting an ownership interest in a bunch of different companies. This gives smaller investors an easy way to diversify their holdings, which reduces their risk.

    The most famous of the ETFs are those that replicate the S&P 500 index (these are sometimes called SPDRs, or spiders). The S&P 500 is an index of 500 of the biggest companies in America. So, as the price of that collection of stocks goes up and down, the S&P 500 index goes up and down. It is one of the main measures that you see in financial reporting.

    When you invest in the S&P 500 Index, you are basically investing in the big companies of America. You are not trying to pick out individual winners. This is generally a pretty smart thing to do: the significant majority of mutual funds (investment funds that pick particular companies) underperform the S&P 500 index in any given year. So when you invest in the S&P 500 index, you are not likely to hit a home run, but you are likely to be doing better than the average fund.

    As captain obvious might say: the stock market can go up or down. But in general, over long periods of time, it will go up -- this has been proven out since the 1930s. The S&P 500 has gone up an average of about 8% in the last 10 years. That includes a lot of turbulence from the great recession of 2008-09. I think that many would say that the stock market is pretty high at the moment, which might be right (or maybe not -- no one really knows for sure). So some big decline in the market might happen. Or it might not. If you are willing to hold for awhile, though, the chances of it being higher 10 years from now than it is today are very good.

    In today's day and age, it is very easy to do this stuff online. You can open and fund an account at TD Ameritrade for free. It costs $10 to do a trade there (that is a fixed fee, and does not vary based on how many shares you are buying). If you can figure out how to make bids on eBay, you can figure out how to buy stocks. If you wanted to buy a SPDR, the ticker is SPY. There are no other fees that you pay directly (the fund itself pays very limited fees to its investment manager, but you, as the investor, never pay anything else). It is liquid -- you can sell it on the market anytime you want, all through the internet.

    If you find you like investing, then you can read up on it more and start to do the fancier stuff, like investing in international stocks, or ETFs that are focused on more narrow segments of the market, like tech companies, or small companies, or whatever. Or you can get even fancier and look at currency speculation, etc. (i am not sure that is advisable, though). But I would keep it simple to start, don't get intimidated by the things that seem complicated, and try to start soon - even today. The sooner you get an account open and funded, and then start making some investments and seeing how easy it is, the sooner you will be saving up your money and meeting your goals.

    People can get in trouble with investments when they start thinking of the stock market as a casino, and they start day trading and obsessing over how much money they made or lost that week or whatever. I think that the better way is the "get rich slow" way, where you buy good solid stuff and then just hold it/forget it, focusing your daily energies on saving more and putting it into the account.

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    Default Re: $15,000???

    from

    (snip)Deferred annuities function like a piggy bank: during the accumulation phase the account collects money and grows tax deferred. Once the contract expires, typically 5-10 years down the line, the accumulation phase ends and dispersal begins. Dispersal takes the form of a single large payout or a long string of smaller monthly payouts.(snip)

    ^^^ a deferred fixed annuity has far more similarities to a Roth IRA than it does to a 'regular' bank account ... tax deferred interest earnings, penalties for early withdrawl, etc. About the only major difference is that the Roth IRA has a fixed age limit, whereas the annuity has a fixed term.


    To exchange euro...I haven't found a good place to do that yet. The Banks here put too much overhead cost, admin fee, assumption pads on the rate itself
    If the primary concern is earning money on the falling US dollar vs rising Euro exchange rate moves, buying shares of the FXE exchange traded fund provides that with extremely low 'fees'.


    The S&P 500 has gone up an average of about 8% in the last 10 years.
    That's technically true, but only if one measures the market price in non-inflation adjusted dollars. Over the same time period, for example, Gold has gone up over 250% if also measured in non-inflation adjusted dollars. I'll agree that day trading as if the stock market was a casino is highly risky, but 'buying and holding' for decades involves risks as well.

    And that is particularly the case for dancers, camgirls, escorts etc. who are likely to earn a very large income over a relatively short period of time i.e. 10 years, but who will then have greatly reduced earnings potential for the next 30 years once they transition to a 'straight' job. Like professional athletes, if dancers, camgirls, escorts etc. investments are caught in a major market downturn, they don't have the same luxury as most other people to also be buying future investments during a subsequent major market upturn ( i.e. dollar cost averaging the purchase price of shares of a particular investment over 40 years or whatever ).

    Thus protection against major market losses is of far more importance, meaning that 'mainstream' investment advice intended for other people who are within 10 years of retirement ( i.e. age 55 ) is arguably far more applicable to dancers, camgirls, escorts etc. than 'mainstream' investment advice intended for other people age 25.
    Last edited by Melonie; 03-28-2015 at 08:09 PM.

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    Default Re: $15,000???

    A fixed annuity these days doesn't really fix the interest rate. Most of the this type of products will do a market adjustment according to the guarantee rate. that adjustment could be pay out at the time as a dividend. A deferred annuity somehow do have the "tax advantage" which is a default option. In US market, top insurance companies sell both products. I think it's better than a CD.

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    Default Re: $15,000???

    ^^^ not meaning to be argumentative, but the huge US insurance company AIG came within days of going bankrupt during the 2008 'crisis'. Had it not been for a US taxpayer bailout, investors holding AIG issued annuities would have wound up receiving pennies on the dollar !!! While I'm not a particular fan of bank CD's, at least they are FDIC insured. Perhaps a 'middle of the road' choice would be US gov't TIPS bonds, which are 'safer' than annuities if a 'black swan' lands again, but which theoretically offer a somewhat better return than bank CD's.


    A fixed annuity these days doesn't really fix the interest rate. Most of the this type of products will do a market adjustment according to the guarantee rate. that adjustment could be pay out at the time as a dividend.
    ^^^ which can also be described as a gain ( or potential loss ) of principal value. Actually there are lots of different 'flavors' of annuities available these days ... some with 'guaranteed' fixed interest rates, some with 'guaranteed' principal value, etc. See . There are also variants available i.e. Guaranteed Investment Contracts which 'guarantee' both principal value AND interest earned as bank CD's do ... in exchange for lower interest rates of course. I place the word guarantee in quotes, though, because unlike bank CD's or gov't bonds the only real guarantee for annuities is the future solvency / ability to pay of the issuing insurance company.

    Again, at least according to my business acquaintances, the primary 'selling points' of annuities these days are ...

    - slightly better interest rate than bank CD's
    - ability to defer tax on interest earnings
    - no annual 'contribution' limit versus Roth IRA's / 401k's etc.
    - ability to avoid estate tax / probate court if owner dies

    ... which typically makes them popular with 'top 10%' earners in the 50+ age group.
    Last edited by Melonie; 03-28-2015 at 08:41 PM.

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    Default Re: $15,000???

    Yes. AIG came really close to bankrupt. Before 2008, SEC doesn't have much supervision upon the financial institutions abuse the derivatives. Things are different now. all the annuity products are recognized as tradition life insurance product, which worth mention that AIG's life insurance block was pretty profitable and healthy even during the crisis. It's the risky derivatives that screwed everything up. I would recommend John hancock, New york life, and sunlife, melife, those companies are going to last for a long time. Don't want to get carried away \\, i am not in the insurance selling business. For all the girl here, don't blow your hard earned money away. Invest it safely, be smart, be safe. Ciao.

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