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Thread: Payoneer DOES report to the IRS?

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    Veteran Member Tbean's Avatar
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    Exclamation Payoneer DOES report to the IRS?

    So I've always heard that payoneer doesn't 1099 or report to the IRS...guess what I got today? A letter from the IRS saying I had not claimed income from PAYONEER...they never sent ME a 1099K but did send the IRS one, and I'm guessing the state I lived in last year one also, but the problem with that lies in the fact that some of the companies that pay me through payoneer DID 1099 me! Not only that, not all of the money I received through payoneer was actually income! GRR!

    I just wanted to give a heads up to anyone else who might use payoneer and get multiple 1099s from different companies...you might be at risk of being double taxed...

    I called payoneer and the person I spoke with said he has been there for years and never heard of payoneer ever sending 1099s and never heard of anything like this ever happening, so he had me email a copy of the letter to them so they can look into it. I'm really hoping this shit can be taken care of, otherwise, I owe the IRS $4000.

    I'm really flipping out. This was for the year 2013 by the way, and I already know to expect one for 2014 also now I guess too...
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    Default Re: Payoneer DOES report to the IRS?

    Lawyer up and ride it out!

    So long as you have the 1099's or can show you claimed the earnings coming through Payoneer, you should be ok. You won't be ok if you received money on Payoneer you didn't cover when you filed...as some models were advised to "not bother with" by some unscrupulous people.

    Likely the IRS didn't get anything directly from Payoneer, they probably saw if you transferred money from your Payoneer card to your bank account and assumed that was a payment for something.

    Another possibility is Payoneer accounts of US citizens were turned over to the IRS quietly as part of the recent anti-terror and health insurance laws.
    Last edited by KatyBoleyn; 04-12-2015 at 08:33 AM.

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    Default Re: Payoneer DOES report to the IRS?

    Did you use private loads or anything?

    That doesn't make sense... are they telling you the total is the total of all payoneer payments that were made to you? Or just certain ones?

    How was any money you received through payoneer NOT income?
    xoxo ~ Sarah




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    Default Re: Payoneer DOES report to the IRS?

    Quote Originally Posted by SarahTime View Post
    Did you use private loads or anything?

    That doesn't make sense... are they telling you the total is the total of all payoneer payments that were made to you? Or just certain ones?

    How was any money you received through payoneer NOT income?
    I lent someone money from transferring money from my payoneer to theirs and they paid back the same way. Other than that I can't think of how any money would be not income coming on a payoneer.

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    Default Re: Payoneer DOES report to the IRS?

    I think you are a bit mixed up about where the 1099s are from.

    They are sent from the companies who pay you, not from Payoneer.

    I'm puzzled also why you would think you didn't have to pay tax on the money you earned.


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    Default Re: Payoneer DOES report to the IRS?

    That wasn't it. She received the money through Payoneer, but the IRS thinks Payoneer is a company paying her. The income was already reported (hopefully). A lawyer should be able to straighten it out pretty quick, but it will cost you.

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    Default Re: Payoneer DOES report to the IRS?

    This is how I understand it with examples I've made up:

    Tbean got earnings from Streamate and was paid via Payoneer.
    Tbean got her 1099 from SM and filed it on her taxes for the year 2013.
    Payoneer sent the IRS a 1099 for the amount she earned THROUGH SM and made it seem as if it were income FROM Payoneer as ADDITIONAL income.
    Even though Tbean PAID taxes for her earnings on SM the IRS THINKS she earned money via Payoneer, as if she were getting paid by them.
    When in all actuality it was SM that paid her out to her Payoneer card.

    Basically Payoneer's amounts and SM's amounts are the same, so even though she did file her taxes it's being double dipped and taxed, when really it's just one amount that she's already been taxed on.

    I hope you still have your 1099 from where ever you were paid from and can show the amounts match. There's a certain amount of money that you can receive as "gifts" if you did any private loads from customers. If you can show that the payment loads onto the card from your sites match up with the 1099 that you filed it should make it an easier process, but if you got private loads and it exceeds what you're allowed to skip when claiming you're gonna end up being taxed on that.

    Does any of that make sense?

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    Default Re: Payoneer DOES report to the IRS?

    Did the letter say they had received a 1099? The IRS doesn't need a 1099 to look at bank accounts and think you're hiding something, especially overseas bank accounts are wide open now.

    As a foreign company, I don't think Payoneer is required to file anything official to anyone, but they are required to turn over all info on US account holders to the IRS if they're asked or they get banned from working in the US. That's why you don't listen to idiots when they say "Don't worry about taxes if you're paid on Payoneer." In her case though, I think it was just an information turnover to the IRS on their US clients. If that money is accounted for by 1099's or other tax declarations, she's perfectly fine.

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    Default Re: Payoneer DOES report to the IRS?

    Quote Originally Posted by justsometwat View Post
    This is how I understand it with examples I've made up:

    Tbean got earnings from Streamate and was paid via Payoneer.
    Tbean got her 1099 from SM and filed it on her taxes for the year 2013.
    Payoneer sent the IRS a 1099 for the amount she earned THROUGH SM and made it seem as if it were income FROM Payoneer as ADDITIONAL income.
    Even though Tbean PAID taxes for her earnings on SM the IRS THINKS she earned money via Payoneer, as if she were getting paid by them.
    When in all actuality it was SM that paid her out to her Payoneer card.

    Basically Payoneer's amounts and SM's amounts are the same, so even though she did file her taxes it's being double dipped and taxed, when really it's just one amount that she's already been taxed on.

    I hope you still have your 1099 from where ever you were paid from and can show the amounts match. There's a certain amount of money that you can receive as "gifts" if you did any private loads from customers. If you can show that the payment loads onto the card from your sites match up with the 1099 that you filed it should make it an easier process, but if you got private loads and it exceeds what you're allowed to skip when claiming you're gonna end up being taxed on that.

    Does any of that make sense?

    Thank you for replying everyone! I don't have bank accounts so that isn't it, but there was times I've loaded money to myself other ways when I didn't have other options...long story lol anyway, there isn't just that, theres the few companies that do send 1099s that pay me with payoneer and two who don't...I've claimed it all, but they are saying that the payoneer is a totally different company paying me all together. It has payoneers name, my payoneer account number, my ss# and over 26k listed as my income. It also has payoneers address in NY.

    I know many here get payments totalling far over what I made...so no one who does make more ever got a 1099K or heard of it before? It is just totally weird. I don't get it. The IRS is swearing payoneer sent it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaddyslilHeaven View Post
    If I get upset, I just think about bubbles then go blow some...nothing makes me happier than watching beautiful, innocently fragile spheres float through the air then die. LOL!

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    Default Re: Payoneer DOES report to the IRS?

    The IRS monkey may not know the whole story or be making assumptions...did they actually show you the 1099k?

    You realize the IRS collectors get bonuses for scaring money out of you?

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    Default Re: Payoneer DOES report to the IRS?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tbean View Post
    Thank you for replying everyone! I don't have bank accounts so that isn't it, but there was times I've loaded money to myself other ways when I didn't have other options...long story lol anyway, there isn't just that, theres the few companies that do send 1099s that pay me with payoneer and two who don't...I've claimed it all, but they are saying that the payoneer is a totally different company paying me all together. It has payoneers name, my payoneer account number, my ss# and over 26k listed as my income. It also has payoneers address in NY.

    I know many here get payments totalling far over what I made...so no one who does make more ever got a 1099K or heard of it before? It is just totally weird. I don't get it. The IRS is swearing payoneer sent it.
    Could you explain to me how you load money to yourself?

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    Default Re: Payoneer DOES report to the IRS?

    with credit cards. Not something I recommend doing unless it's an emergency.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaddyslilHeaven View Post
    If I get upset, I just think about bubbles then go blow some...nothing makes me happier than watching beautiful, innocently fragile spheres float through the air then die. LOL!

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    Senior Member SummerBlaze's Avatar
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    Default Re: Payoneer DOES report to the IRS?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tbean View Post
    with credit cards. Not something I recommend doing unless it's an emergency.
    I need to re contact payoneer then because they told me the ONLY way to do that was to link it to my paypal.

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    Default Re: Payoneer DOES report to the IRS?

    I didn't know there was any type of connection between paypal and payoneer at all? I do know that different customer service reps tend to say different things, so IDK what the hell is what sometimes if I have an issue. It took about 4 days for it to load. The first time I tried it, it didn't go through, and at that point it took a few days for them to even deny it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaddyslilHeaven View Post
    If I get upset, I just think about bubbles then go blow some...nothing makes me happier than watching beautiful, innocently fragile spheres float through the air then die. LOL!

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    Default Re: Payoneer DOES report to the IRS?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tbean View Post
    Thank you for replying everyone! I don't have bank accounts so that isn't it, but there was times I've loaded money to myself other ways when I didn't have other options...long story lol anyway, there isn't just that, theres the few companies that do send 1099s that pay me with payoneer and two who don't...I've claimed it all, but they are saying that the payoneer is a totally different company paying me all together. It has payoneers name, my payoneer account number, my ss# and over 26k listed as my income. It also has payoneers address in NY.

    I know many here get payments totalling far over what I made...so no one who does make more ever got a 1099K or heard of it before? It is just totally weird. I don't get it. The IRS is swearing payoneer sent it.
    All I have to say is DAMN.

    I think Katy is right on this one. You're going to have to see a tax attorney.
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    Default Re: Payoneer DOES report to the IRS?

    I'm a little reluctant to delve into this topic, but what the hell ...

    Recently enacted US laws now require 'payment processors' like paypal and payoneer to issue a 1099K 'report of transfer payments' to the IRS for total annual payments made to a US citizen which exceed $20,000 or 200 transactions.

    The IRS is likely to assume that, absent 3rd party financial documentation to the contrary, all of the money transferred to that US citizen by the 'payment processor' and reported via 1099K is taxable business income.

    If the total amount of business income declared by that US citizen on their tax return is greater than the total amount reported as being transferred to that person via the 1099K, then no worries.

    However, if the total amount of business income declared by that US citizen on their tax return is less than the amount reported as being transferred via the 1099K, the IRS is likely to take the position that the 'discrepancy' between total amount transferred and the total amount reported as taxable income was 'unreported' additional income ... potentially triggering an audit and an additional tax bill.

    If there were in fact cases where the OP transferred her own personal funds through payoneer, she will have a record of the matching credit card charges ... which will in turn provide 3rd party documentation that the money transferred in this manner was NOT 'unreported' income, was not additional taxable income, and should not be subject to additional income taxes.

    The 'kicker' of course is that the OP has already attracted the attention of the IRS, and they may now decide to take a deeper look at all aspects of her tax return and personal finances. If the entire amount of the 'discrepancy' can be shown to be the result of 3rd party documented money transfers from her own credit card, then the IRS will most likely be easily satisfied. But if the amount of the 'discrepancy' still exceeds the total amount of income she reported on her tax return after the money transfers from her own credit card are subtracted ... i.e. the remaining 'discrepancy' is actually due to transfer payments originating from foreign webcam hosts that do not issue 1099's or from individual web customers which were 'forgotten' when the annual tax return's Schedule C was filled out ... then the IRS is not likely to be as easily satisfied.

    Apparently the option exists to simply pay the $4000 the IRS is asking for, and the IRS will 'go away satisfied' in return. Even though all or at least some portion of the total amount of 'transfer payments' reported via 1099K by payoneer should be legitimately exempt from income tax ( i.e. the amounts transferred from her own credit card ), the potential 'costs' involved to turn down the IRS offer, and to potentially undergo a 'full-blown' audit as a result ( which could involve the IRS combing through the past 3 years worth of tax returns ), could wind up costing as much or more in terms of accountant / attorney's fees, other additional tax bills, and increased future IRS scrutiny. If 100% of the 'discrepancy' can be proven to originate with transfers from her own credit card, that's a risk that might be worth taking. If not, accepting the IRS offer to pay the bogus $4000 in exchange for them 'going away satisfied' may be worth serious consideration as a practical matter.

    There is also a potential third option for the OP to respond to the IRS notice herself via snail mail, offering up documentation of her own credit card transfers to her payoneer account as proof that 100% of the 'discrepancy' should not be considered as additional taxable income, and then seeing how the IRS responds in turn. However, responding directly to the IRS without benefit of an attorney sets a 'dangerous' precedent if the IRS responds unfavorably. And, obviously, if 100% of the 'discrepancy' cannot be explained via her own credit card transfers, responding directly to the IRS may risk losing the future opportunity to accept the $4000 settlement offer which the IRS has initially put forward.

    The real moral of the story, of course, is that intermingling 'business' finances and 'personal' finances is always a bad idea.

    And an important additional 'takeaway' is that, with each passing year, the ability of the IRS to directly or indirectly track money being earned by US citizens gets better and better. The 1099K 'payment processor' reporting regulations were first enacted in 2012, and as the OP notes first began to report 2013 transfer payments, but are just now percolating their way through the IRS backlog another year later.
    Last edited by Melonie; 03-14-2015 at 12:04 PM.

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    Default Re: Payoneer DOES report to the IRS?

    I don't understand why you would transfer your own money off credit cards and through payoneer, especially given their fees for pretty much every transaction made, instead of just using those credit cards directly when you needed money? Especially to the tune of apparently $26k?

    Am I misunderstanding this part?
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    Default Re: Payoneer DOES report to the IRS?

    Quote Originally Posted by SarahTime View Post
    I don't understand why you would transfer your own money off credit cards and through payoneer, especially given their fees for pretty much every transaction made, instead of just using those credit cards directly when you needed money? Especially to the tune of apparently $26k?

    Am I misunderstanding this part?
    I think that's just a small part of the 26k, and the rest is cam site income.

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    Default Re: Payoneer DOES report to the IRS?

    Quote Originally Posted by SarahTime View Post
    I don't understand why you would transfer your own money off credit cards and through payoneer, especially given their fees for pretty much every transaction made, instead of just using those credit cards directly when you needed money? Especially to the tune of apparently $26k?

    Am I misunderstanding this part?
    I'm assuming that the $26K was probably the amount she loaded plus the amount she was paid by cam sites.

    Not all credit cards will allow you to take a cash advances, and there are some things you just can't do with a credit card (I'm not thinking of buying anything illegal, just things like credit card payments and rent, depending on your landlord).

    *Edit: For anyone reading this in the future, what I'm about to describe is apparently illegal (please see Katy's post), so don't try it at home.* The other thing is that if you have $0 in the bank and $26K worth of available credit, you really can't spend anything on the credit card, because when you fail to make payments on the cards, you lose access to all that credit. On the other hand, if you can turn it into cash in the bank, you can use your $26K to pay the monthly credit card payments and pay your bills for a while. In the long term, it's a bad plan for so many reasons, and it would only work if you're pretty damn certain that you can be making good money by the time your $26K runs out. Again, I will state for anyone that reads this and considers trying it, that it is a VERY BAD plan, especially using a very fee-laden service like Payoneer. I'm not saying that that was the OP's scenario, but I could see someone doing that in a serious pinch (I'll confess that I did it once, but on a very small scale, using a very low interest cash advance, and it turned out that I didn't end up needing the cash anyway, so I was able to pay it right back).
    Last edited by Magical_Hoohah; 03-14-2015 at 05:50 PM.
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    Default Re: Payoneer DOES report to the IRS?

    Quote Originally Posted by Magical_Hoohah View Post
    I'm assuming that the $26K was probably the amount she loaded plus the amount she was paid by cam sites.

    Not all credit cards will allow you to take a cash advances, and there are some things you just can't do with a credit card (I'm not thinking of anything illegal, just things like credit card payments and rent, depending on your landlord).

    The other thing is that if you have $0 in the bank and $26K worth of available credit, you really can't spend anything on the credit card, because when you fail to make payments on the cards, you lose access to all that credit. On the other hand, if you can turn it into cash in the bank, you can use your $26K to pay the monthly credit card payments and pay your bills for a while. In the long term, it's a bad plan for so many reasons, and it would only work if you're pretty damn certain that you can be making good money by the time your $26K runs out. Again, I will state for anyone that reads this and considers trying it, that it is a VERY BAD plan, especially using a very fee-laden service like Payoneer. I'm not saying that that was the OP's scenario, but I could see someone doing that in a serious pinch (I'll confess that I did it once, but on a very small scale, using a very low interest cash advance, and it turned out that I didn't end up needing the cash anyway, so I was able to pay it right back).
    Ooooh didn't even think of that - paying other cards rent. Goes to show how often I use credit cards!

    And yah the rest, makes total sense. I can see how that would happen in a pinch.
    xoxo ~ Sarah




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    Default Re: Payoneer DOES report to the IRS?

    Quote Originally Posted by SarahTime View Post
    Ooooh didn't even think of that - paying other cards rent. Goes to show how often I use credit cards!

    And yah the rest, makes total sense. I can see how that would happen in a pinch.
    That's called "kiting" and its illegal (in most circumstances). Using Payoneer in a roundabout way may clean it up somewhat, but for the most part steer clear.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Credit_card_kiting

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    Default Re: Payoneer DOES report to the IRS?

    Quote Originally Posted by KatyBoleyn View Post
    That's called "kiting" and its illegal (in most circumstances). Using Payoneer in a roundabout way may clean it up somewhat, but for the most part steer clear.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Credit_card_kiting

    Actually its the check kiting that is illegal "{Unlike check kiting, which is illegal under nearly all circumstances, laws against credit card kiting are not completely prohibitive of the practice, thereby allowing it to be done to some degree. It is up to the banks to detect the practice and when necessary, stop it."

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    Default Re: Payoneer DOES report to the IRS?

    Yes, but the fine print is that when the banks or card services catch you, you're still in trouble. If the amounts are big enough, they can take you to court themselves or report you for general fraud, but at a minimum you'll lose your accounts or be demanded to immediately settle any fees on your accounts. "Creatively" circumventing the fees for cash withdrawals or delaying/preventing interest due is considered theft by the banks.

    TL,DR this is not something to advocate.

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    Default Re: Payoneer DOES report to the IRS?

    Quote Originally Posted by KatyBoleyn View Post
    That's called "kiting" and its illegal (in most circumstances). Using Payoneer in a roundabout way may clean it up somewhat, but for the most part steer clear.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Credit_card_kiting
    Yikes! I knew it was a very silly thing to do because of the amount you'd end up paying in fees and interest, but I didn't know it was illegal, too! I edited my post to mention that. Do you think I should just delete my post so no one hurts themselves with it?
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    Default Re: Payoneer DOES report to the IRS?

    Huh... Learn something new every day!
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