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Thread: No more tip outs, no more schedules?

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    Default No more tip outs, no more schedules?

    A few weeks ago my club had a meeting and the owner announced he's getting rid of all mandatory tip outs and all schedule requirements. I thought he was being generous. Unfortunately, the club also got rid of the $20 dance option. So I quit that club and went to a new one. After I got hired, the manager said a couple places are getting sued for making independent contractors tip out and keep schedules, so no tip outs, no schedules will be industry standard from now on. I've been dancing on and off since 2007 in a few different states and never worked anywhere without these conventions.

    Is anyone else seeing these changes? As for the class action lawsuit, I thought I overheard a couple girls in the dressing room talking about dancers who had been getting letters inviting them to claim a share of the money-- I might have misunderstood them but if a club lost their class action suit, would any current/former dancers there be eligible for that? And if so has anyone been a part of this or know how that might work exactly?

    Do you think it will make a difference in the industry? I think one of the girls at my new club said this was going to be bad overall but I don't see how, so far the changes have put me in a better mood when I get to work, and I don't think girls are just going to stop tipping out.

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    Default Re: No more tip outs, no more schedules?

    Please tell me where you live so that I can move there.

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    Default Re: No more tip outs, no more schedules?

    So do you now have only $10 dances, or only more expensive options?

    It's a good idea in theory, and how it should always have been, but your lack of tip out means that the owners now have to pay their staff a reasonable amount... and those funds need to come from somewhere. I would not be surprised if they jacked up house fees/VIP dance cuts to compensate for it.

    As far as being sued, you have to sign up with the law firm handling the lawsuit. Personally, I've been getting letters for weeks from a lawyer trying to get me to jump onto his lawsuit against Christie's Cabaret here. The payout gets split between lawyers fees and dancers, with the dancers with longer tenure getting a bigger chunk. Also keep in mind that if you join a lawsuit, it's public record, so if you're intending on entering a vanilla field that runs extensive background checks, I'd stay away from lawsuits.
    "People jack off with the left hand and point with the right."

    "You can check out any time you like, but you can never leave."

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    Default Re: No more tip outs, no more schedules?

    Only $10 dances. I'm also in Phoenix.

    I think I'll probably stay out of any legal action also. But I was curious how much money a girl could expect to see. Kinda an interesting thing.

    So far I haven't seen a house fee increase but I figured it would only be so long before that happened.

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    Default Re: No more tip outs, no more schedules?

    Interesting; mind PMing me the club name?
    I've been looking to move and would like as much info about other clubs before I waste time auditioning/working shifts.

    I think there's a thread somewhere about the Scores settlement. I remember reading that the higher amounts paid out to dancers were somewhere in the $10k range, but that's not enough to justify having your name linked to sex work on the public record. Personally I would never join a lawsuit. While I think it's hella shitty to expect dancers to subsidize your DJs and bouncers pay, you also knew that when you signed up and to sue after the fact is a little stupid. If you don't like the conditions... well, go somewhere else, and honestly $30 in tip outs is a small price to pay for the potential to earn $300-$1000 a night depending on the club.

    It's not just strip clubs either, the restaurant industry operates that way too (my bf has to tip out his bartenders and food runners), but I haven't heard of any restaurants being sued... or maybe I just live under a rock
    "People jack off with the left hand and point with the right."

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    Default Re: No more tip outs, no more schedules?

    I have actually never worked at a club where I have to tip out except the one that I am working at now. My tip out is $8 so really not complaining. I also have never had a schedule to work on. I show up when I show up, work, and no one complains. I pay my club fee which varies depending when you show up.

    Edited to add:

    I would be pissed about no $20 dances. F that noise.

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    Default Re: No more tip outs, no more schedules?

    Well I never complained and I never expected it to change but it's a fact that clubs were breaking the law so I can't say I feel bad for them or anything. I do like having no schedule.

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    Default Re: No more tip outs, no more schedules?

    recent threads on 'successful' employee dancer lawsuits can be found at ...







    It would appear that the clubs mentioned in this thread are making serious efforts to deflect similar employee dancer lawsuits being brought against them. However, this may bring on a new set of 'risks'.

    - There is no free lunch. The 'revenues' the club is losing in the form of abolishing dancer house fees, and the incomes which the DJ and bouncers are losing in the form of abolishing tipouts, will have to be replaced one way or another. The most probable way this will happen is an increased percentage club 'cut' of customer money spent on private dances, leaving less money for the dancers even though they are selling the same amount of private dances.

    - Actions have reactions. With zero schedule control, it's entirely possible that the club could find itself with 1/2 the number of normal dancers on Monday nights, but twice the number of normal dancers on Friday nights. Besides the predictable impact on individual dancer income potential, this is likely to also affect club customers ... who may choose not to show up on Monday nights due to lack of dancer quality / variety, and who may also choose not to show up on Friday nights due to a feeling of being 'circled by sharks'.

    - law of unintended consequences - with zero schedule control, dancers who are somewhat 'out of shape' or otherwise not projecting a 'top shelf' image, who were originally hired to fill out 'unpopular' shifts / nights, cannot be prevented from lining up to go onstage during 'prime time'. This can lower customer perception of the club's 'prime time' offerings, and encourage customers to go to different clubs where Friday night still means wall to wall top shelf dancers. This may in turn lead to firings, but that only exacerbates other potential problems like the club getting 'enough' dancers to voluntarily work Monday nights for 'peanuts'.

    From a purely economic and marketing standpoint, true independent contractor clubs which are - and can remain - profitable for the clubowner, the DJ's and bouncers, and of course the dancers, require a certain set of parameters ...

    - the customer 'market' must have a fair amount of 'discretionary' money to spend. Bargain hunting customers, in combination with a large number of dancers per shift / night, can create a 'downhill snowball' effect of rising customer expectations and declining dancer incomes if they are unwilling to meet said customer expectations.

    - the customer 'market' must have a high amount of 'turnover' ( as opposed to a large component of repeat customers ). A business model dependent on a comparatively small number of 'regulars' can be stressed when an increased number of earnings starved dancers start the inevitable 'poaching'.

    - the 'supply' of willing high quality dancers must be pretty high. Without this the club may have problems maintaining a 'class' offering on slow shifts / nights.

    Obviously, those sort of parameters don't exist in every city !!!
    Last edited by Melonie; 03-15-2015 at 05:53 PM.

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    Default Re: No more tip outs, no more schedules?

    .............
    Last edited by LAQUEEFA; 07-22-2015 at 10:06 AM.

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    Default Re: No more tip outs, no more schedules?

    Thanks for the links.

    I thought it was totally legal to charge independent contractors a fee for renting stage time? No one said a word about house fees changing, I wouldn't expect that to go anywhere.

    When I got hired at the new club, I had to get approval from my hiring manager to work night shifts...so for now at least, shift restrictions are still in place.

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    Default Re: No more tip outs, no more schedules?

    ^^^ well, if the club is still charging house fees, and still dictating which dancers can and cannot work during particular shifts, then the clubowner is arguably still 'pi$$ing in the wind' in their attempts to avoid potential employee dancer status lawsuits.

    There is an arguably legal loophole that the club can charge independent contractor dancers 'rental fees' for something tangible ... like lockers or stage time. But with true 100% independent contractor status, dancers should also have the open option not to pay the fee and not to go on stage.

    As a practical matter, once these sort of topics start getting raised in court, the odds highly favor the court finding that the clubowner is exercising 'employer' level controls over the dancers based on damn near anything. The unspoken point, of course, is that the court = gov't has a vested interest in having dancers ruled to be 'employees' ... more tax money, more money flowing into state unemployment and disability funds, etc.
    Last edited by Melonie; 03-16-2015 at 12:24 PM.

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    Default Re: No more tip outs, no more schedules?

    My club has a policy that tip outs are voluntary. It's explicit in the contract. HOWEVER, just like when you go to a restaurant, no one is forcing you to tip your server, there is social pressure to tip your server even if he/she provided poor or sub-par service.

    Yes, the tip outs are technically "voluntary," but the dancer who declines to tip her bouncer or dj is going to have a very rough go of it at work. These people will actively sabotage her efforts at making sales. So, sure, the tip out is voluntary, but it pays to just keep tipping everyone.

    As to the no mandatory schedules, this just makes sense. I like working day shifts on the week days. If the club has an "everyone works Friday and Saturday night shift" policy, I will just decline the audition. Unless you are a paid employee, the club cannot legally mandate which shifts you work. Most clubs around here, the girls make their schedules in advance with the manager. If she wants to work last minute, a call to the manager is pretty much all it takes to find out of there is still an open slot on the schedule.

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    Default Re: No more tip outs, no more schedules?

    ^^^ again, from a legal standpoint, if a club is able to decide that a dancer cannot work during a particular shift or on a particular day, there is no functional differerence from the club requiring the dancer to work on a particular shift or a particular day. Both exhibit an 'employer' level of control over workers' schedules. Granted that clubs ( partially or fully ) enforcing schedules makes practical sense. But it also leaves the club open to employee dancer lawsuits.

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    Default Re: No more tip outs, no more schedules?

    I work at Deja Vu clubs who advertise $20 dances and I still charge $40 for every topless dance, so I'm still making money. Sounds like a good deal for us tbh.

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