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Thread: So Called "Victims" of Sex Trafficking Are Lying?!

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    Default So Called "Victims" of Sex Trafficking Are Lying?!

    There was the infamous case of Chong Kim. A woman whose making millions on speaking tours, etc. after she revealed that she was sex trafficked at 19. Reporters, journalists, etc soon found many holes in her story and to many, she is a fraud. But even a film on sex trafficking called "Eden" was made about her in 2012.

    Recently, I saw a documentary on sex trafficking. The girls all had pimps but some also discussed backpage and Eros, and I hate to say it, but I got this feeling that a lot of them were open to sex work but things didn't work out so they cried foul to save their asses the embarrassment/ shame from family/friends. I mean, one girl flew to Vegas to meet her supposed "pimp." In this age of social media, ya mean to tell me she didn't do the Tumblr tags first to at least get a second opinion?

    What do y'all think? There is this ongoing "war on sex work" that is funneling millions to law enforcement agencies. And all the stories surround "the girl next door" getting victimized by big, bad pimps, when up and down Instagram I see girls eagerly boasting about their daily earnings from Eros and through sugaring.

    Thoughts?



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    Angry Re: So Called "Victims" of Sex Trafficking Are Lying?!

    I'm getting a tad upset with NetFlix right now for having so many documentaries trotting out the trafficking meme. I was five minutes into one of these documentaries when they said they average age of sex workers was 12-14! Twelve. The survey that was based on was debunked a long time ago, it's a lie put out by moralists and control freaks to support laws that harm sex workers. Basically they scream "for the children", so they can keep sex work illegal. Trafficking is illegal, child sex is illegal, so that's not what these SJW's want; so if they want more laws then it's not against child sex trafficking, it's against your average adult sex worker and client. The proof is in the pudding: If they really cared, they'd want to immediately divert limited law enforcement resources away from those that choose sex work and divert it toward these supposed underage victims. Also, when I listen to real sex workers, working now, and go to their activists sites, they all want the same things: legalize sex work.

    One last point, and I know I'm preaching to the choir, but these SJW's that purport to care about sex workers also want sex workers to pay through their taxes for police that they can't call when someone robs or hurts them. One has to ask the question, if a sex worker could call the police whenever a BF/Pimp hurt them, or if a client robbed them, would they be safer or less safe? If a sex worker could legally contract for scheduling services with competing companies, security with competing companies, rent safe work environments, would sex workers be safer? Also, what does it say about the SJW's that they don't trust sex workers to police their own in the same way many other industries set up associations and standards? If sex work were legal then sex workers could report someone they see being abused. You could also have private certifications (like lawyers, accountants, engineers, and architects get) that certify you agree to certain industry standards.

    Anyone else know the Netflix documentaries I'm talking about? I haven't found one yet that isn't propaganda against legalizing sex work.

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    Default Re: So Called "Victims" of Sex Trafficking Are Lying?!

    Yeah, Nancy Grace was pontificating about it last night - Grilling the BunnyRanch's Dennis Hoff in her dramatic shrill voice about how shes seen victims. that they are all damaged by sex work. They even had a 'former victim' backing her up. Couldn't watch it. Pure crap.
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    Default Re: So Called "Victims" of Sex Trafficking Are Lying?!

    Sorry - but I am friends with a girl who worked there - was a top girl there - I dont want to post specifics on a public forum but it was really really bad - very pimpish shit going on - physically and mentally

    I also know of an agency that tried to help a girl who was a total nut case - I know the girl personally and can vouch that she was a psycho - anywho - she cried trafficking and they were arrested / humiliated in the media / had to spent quite a bit of money to prove their innocence - and they were innocent - no news crews showed up to cover that

    but yea - have seen bust increase due to additional funds being made available in the name of human trafficking - mostly a lot of long time independent hookers - sadly I do believe there are women out there in distress but I'm not sure the current approach is they way to flush them out and help them

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    Default Re: So Called "Victims" of Sex Trafficking Are Lying?!

    There may be few genuine cases of it, and those responsible should be strung up by their gonads, but most of the stats are complete overblown bullshit. I can't figure out who it is helping to make this stuff up.

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    Default Re: So Called "Victims" of Sex Trafficking Are Lying?!

    I read Sex at the Margins:Migration, Labour Markets and the Rescue Industry by Laura Maria Austin (link) a few months ago. Her blog (link) talks a lot about what a hazy subject trafficking is. Many trafficking stats are based on an estimate by one study, that states that it is impossible to know how many people are being trafficked for sexual services. This number was taken by some media outlets as fact, and perpetuated, blown up and exaggerated to generate greater outrage. What does it even mean to be trafficked, in comparison to being a migrant worker? What options are there for these people? How can things be made to be better?

    In terms of ex-sex workers talking about having been trafficked... I think a lot of outreach groups that focus on supporting sex workers (not all, obviously!) require sex workers to denounce and exit sex work in order to get the resources they offer. These women are not allowed to talk about how they really felt about sex work, that it is a complex job with a number of pros and cons, that they liked some of it any didn't like others - and that they might actually enjoy sex work if they had entered it under different circumstances / if it was not an exploitive experience for them. The NGOs that are supporting them require them to lie. If they don't, they don't get the help they need.

    In addition to this, if you are watching documentaries... they are like essays that are putting forth a thesis, an argument. Have the creators checked in with the sex workers to confirm that the message they are spreading is accurate to the message the sex workers want? I doubt it, they get the material they need, they pressure the workers, and use it to serve their purposes.

    I was reading some comments on a blog post on Megan Murhpy's site (don't read it!) and it baffled me how some "radfems" act like can not understand how vulnerable sex workers could be mistrustful of and afraid of police forces, even when it was explained over and over again why that would be the case by a woman who used to work with a sex worker outreach group. Are you serious? What a magical fucking bubble they must live in, where they aren't afraid of the police.

    I don't think condemning the sex workers who get caught up in this mess as liars, stupid, crazy is helpful. I don't think demonizing other sex workers helps the cause to further sex worker rights. All people should be heard in a way that is right for them - free of manipulation. I believe that there are loads of sex workers who are being exploited, both in and out of sex work, by pimps, NGOs, and others. Many people who enter sex work do not have the same access to resources as we do, they do not know the terms to search, they aren't familiar with social media, they're afraid of leaving a trail. They internalize being a criminal, being a victim. These women have harmful experiences that are legitimate, other sex workers demonizing them does not support the cause, creating spaces where vulnerable sex workers feel safe in seeking help, that is not coercive, manipulative, or conditional, is what is best for their and our healing.

    That said, there are people who lie about their experiences. Who never were sex workers. Who built an entire career on a lie. (One such person) Fuck those people and the way they appropriate our stories to further their fucked up causes. But, I mean, whatever. Acknowledging that painful experiences, like the ones these people make up, do exist, and that we still support decriminalization and harm reduction (if thats what you support) only strengthens how serious we are about the harms caused by criminalization. Criminalizing sex work puts workers in harms way, and diverts funds away from those who need it most (underaged workers, exploited workers, trafficked workers). Criminalizing is the harm. (And x y z, like ... poverty, the flawed justice system, lack of health supports, homelessness, making people "illegal" because they are migrant workers without papers, etc etc etc... it's as if sex work is more fucking complicated than "sex is good" or "sex is bad" or something? Who knew).


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    Default Re: So Called "Victims" of Sex Trafficking Are Lying?!

    I watched that netflix documentary with the girl who flew to Vegas...I think maybe some of them were open to sex work, and then got into a sticky situation where they ended up being "trafficked." I was totally open to sex work (beyond stripping) and I met a pimp who was very much like the pimps in the documentary- sending girls out for calls and taking all of the money but paying for bills, etc. I was a stripper though...I loved cash far too much to think that was a good deal. I can understand how other women and girls would think that was a good arrangement. I don't think it's fair to call them liars but the documentary did prompt me to want to learn more about how prevalent trafficking is in the US, compared to willing participants because some of it was unbelievable. I'm also REALLY curious about how decriminalization of sex work would affect trafficking (if anyone can point me to some literature, that would be greatly appreciated).

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    Default Re: So Called "Victims" of Sex Trafficking Are Lying?!

    A decade of decriminalization: Sex work ‘down under’ but not underground is an article on the impact of decriminalization in New Zealand.

    New Zealand was the first country to decriminalize sex work. This article provides a reflective commentary on decriminalization, its implementation and its impacts in New Zealand. New Zealand Prostitutes’ Collective (NZPC) was the key player in getting decriminalization on the policy agenda and their effective networking played an essential role to the successful campaign for legislative change. There were contentious clauses within the Prostitution Reform Act (PRA) which were of concern to NZPC and others. However, the research which informed the review of the Act has shown that decriminalization has been successful in making the industry safer and improving the human rights of sex workers within all sectors of the industry. The PRA provides several protections for sex workers, which means that their human rights and citizenship can be safeguarded. Yet there has been little movement towards decriminalization in other countries and reluctance by some to draw on New Zealand’s experience. Indeed, it cannot be claimed that decriminalization will be experienced in the same way in other countries. New Zealand is a small island with a population of just over four million and movement across its borders is more restricted than countries that are part of the European Union. Nevertheless, other countries may find the arguments used to get legislative change in New Zealand useful within their own context.
    It has this to say about trafficking, and the decision to reframe it as "exploitation":

    World-wide, the existence of a strong moral discourse on sex work is a key obstacle to getting decriminalization on the policy agenda. This discourse frames sex workers as helpless victims requiring protection and relocation and has arisen from the debate about trafficking (Kantola and Squires, 2004). The word ‘trafficking’ has become synonymous with ‘sex work’ or ‘prostitution’ in most countries (Wagenaar and Altink, 2012) yet evidence suggests that the issue of trafficking has been grossly exaggerated (Harcourt and Donovan, 2005; Hubbard et al., 2008; O’Connell Davidson, 2006; Weitzer, 2007). Some have an interest in perpetuating the trafficking discourse. It negates any argument for prostitution to be seen as service work if sex workers are framed as victims and not able to choose freely to work in the sex industry (Wagenaar and Altink, 2012) and leaves little capacity to push the arguments which may lead to a legislative change to decriminalization. Wagenaar and Altink (2012) therefore argue for the concepts of trafficking and
    ‘forced prostitution’ to be reframed as exploitation. Exploitation, they contend, will allow analogies to be drawn with other occupational groups as exploitation is not particular to sex work. Exploitation, and the context of a criminalized environment which allowed exploitation to flourish, was brought into the argument for decriminalization in New Zealand and this was framed as a human rights issue. There was no engagement in a moral discourse on sex work by those pushing for decriminalization besides the argument that Parliament should not be in the business of legislating morals. The public health and human rights arguments were central to the passing of the PRA and these arguments were able to win round some with a personal antipathy to sex work (Barnett et al., 2010)
    If you PM me I can provide you with a PDF to the article (it's also available through sage journals etc).

    On New Zealand's Ministry of Justice Website, I found this page about trafficking. It talks about how the US laws regarding "trafficking" are problematic. In regards to trafficking in New Zealand, here's a little snippet:

    Information received from Immigration Service NZ indicates that no situations involving trafficking in the sex industry have been identified (Department of Labour, 2007). In addition, there have been no prosecutions for trafficking under section 98D of the Crimes Act 1961.85 Immigration only monitors the indoor sector of the industry and does not check the employment conditions or immigration status of street-based sex workers. The Committee is satisfied, on the basis of information received from NZPC and other NGOs involved with street-based sex workers, that during its period of investigation, there were no internationally trafficked women working as street-based sex workers in New Zealand.
    The Social Construction of Sex Trafficking: Ideology and Institutionalization of a Moral Crusade is another article that might be interesting.

    All of the hallmarks of a moral crusade are evident—framing a condition as an
    unqualified evil; creation of folk devils; zealotry among leaders who see their mission
    as a righteous enterprise; presentation of claims as universalistic truths; use of
    horror stories as representative of actors’ experiences; promulgation of huge and
    unverified numbers of victims; and attempts to redraw normative boundaries by
    increased criminalization. Prostitution is depicted as immoral or intrinsically harmful,
    and systems of legal prostitution as dens of iniquity and oppression. As is typical
    of moral crusades, activists (and now government officials) have presented
    questionable statistics and anecdotal horror stories as evidence of a worldwide
    epidemic of coerced prostitution. The crusade’s sweeping claims are contradicted
    by academic research on the sex industry, including comprehensive reviews of the
    scholarly literature.133
    What is particularly striking is the degree to which current claims recapitulate
    arguments made a century ago regarding “white slavery,” a problem that was
    largely mythical.134 The anti-trafficking campaign has capitalized on “one of the
    most powerful symbols in the pantheon of Western imagery, the innocent, young
    girl dragged off against her will to distant lands to satisfy the insatiable sexual
    cravings of wanton men.”135 It has been argued that “today’s stereotypical ‘trafficking
    victim’ bears as little resemblance to women migrating for work in the
    sex industry as did her historical counterpart, the ‘white slave.’”136
    This does not mean that coercive sex trafficking is fictional. Force and deception
    are realities in the sex trade, and the perpetrators deserve stiff punishment.
    But instead of focusing on unfree labor, the campaign has broadly targeted all
    migration if sex is sold at the destination. What is largely missing from crusade
    discourse is attention to the root causes of migration, such as poverty and barriers
    to women’s employment in the Third World and Eastern Europe. Crusade
    leaders occasionally mention structural factors, but this has been overshadowed
    by the dominant moral discourse and by a focus on individuals and their immediate
    circumstances.137

    An alternative model would (1) pay more attention to the socioeconomic conditions
    that promote sex work, (2) focus on unfree labor rather than prostitution
    per se, (3) faithfully represent women’s varied experiences in prostitution, and (4)
    identify concrete ways of enhancing workers’ health, safety, and control over working conditions.138 A full discussion of policy implications is beyond the scope
    of this article, but any such discussion must take into account differences between
    types of prostitution. In other words, policies should be sector-specific. Some
    workers, concentrated in the upscale echelon (call girls, escorts), are not interested
    in leaving the trade, and their biggest concern is being arrested.139 Other workers,
    both internationally and domestically, whether trafficked or not, want to leave the
    sex industry, yet resources to facilitate exit are woefully lacking. In the United
    States, most cities provide virtually no government-funded support services
    for sex workers.140 Desperately needed are resources for counseling, health care,
    drug treatment, temporary housing, and job training. Regarding sex trafficking, as
    noted above, interventions focused on persons who are unequivocally victims and
    perpetrators of coercive trafficking (involving force and fraud) would be a superior
    strategy to the undifferentiated and often counterproductive practices of many
    faith-based rescue organizations, whose practices are driven by this moral crusade’s
    broad goal of abolishing the entire sex industry worldwide.
    Maybe the question shouldn't be "how will decriminalization impact trafficking," maybe instead we should be asking whether or not the prevailing idea of "trafficking", and the battle against it, and the fear mongering around it, is actually helpful in terms of protecting vulnerable people from exploitation, and what alternative strategies are out there.


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    Default Re: So Called "Victims" of Sex Trafficking Are Lying?!

    Sorry, that was a really meaty post... I am just finishing up a thesis on sex work as a response to Canada's criminalization of clients in December... when I procrastinate I apparently roll around on the sex work internet posting lengthy sources. All the shit I have left to do in my thesis is really fucking tedious.


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    Default Re: So Called "Victims" of Sex Trafficking Are Lying?!

    OHHH thank you so much TashaTo! I'm a student, so I have no problem accessing the articles, but thank you thank you! Can't wait to get started in on this reading.

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    Default Re: So Called "Victims" of Sex Trafficking Are Lying?!

    ^^Tashato thanks for the stats my question is still, who does it benefit when such vast overstatements are made? I can think of no other are where the numbers are so manipulated.

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    Default Re: So Called "Victims" of Sex Trafficking Are Lying?!

    I'd rather give unwarranted sympathy to someone claiming to be a victim than deny it to someone who really is. Sex work causes PTSD in some people. It hits in cycles. Some people might feel less/more victimized during certain points in their career. I think anyone who does sex work against their will should be aided out of it and offered resources. Also, anyone who really hates it should get out/switch to a less physical form of it/switch to tech support positions etc..
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    Default Re: So Called "Victims" of Sex Trafficking Are Lying?!

    Quote Originally Posted by Bahuba View Post
    ^^Tashato thanks for the stats my question is still, who does it benefit when such vast overstatements are made? I can think of no other are where the numbers are so manipulated.
    NGOs/The Rescue Industry, sensationalist media whose priority is more viewers, governments that want to create moralizing laws based on ideology rather than evidence, misogynists?


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    Default Re: So Called "Victims" of Sex Trafficking Are Lying?!

    In some parts of the world sex trafficking is more prevalent than in others. I have been to countries where it is really not all that hidden. In some Asian countries there are many girls that have been sold to brothels by their parents. Many who have been made false promises about good paying jobs elsewhere, only for it to really be indentured servitude including sex. Happens a lot with Asian girls going to the Middle East. With the fall of the Iron Curtain, sex trafficking from Eastern Europe has really increased. Last time I was in Korea, I was very surprised at the number of Russian girls in the nightclubs. Eastern European girls are also very much in evidence in the German clubs and on the "Reeperbahn". Although I do wonder if many of them didn't come of their own free will, only to be met by disappointment and disillusionment and have turned to sex work as a means of making money. They are having a negative impact on the native legal escorts/prostitutes as far as income goes.

    In the US I am sure there is sex trafficking, how big of a problem it is I don't know. I agree that many of the numbers a really overblown though. Hyperbole has replaced facts in the political arena, and many do so to suit their own agenda, whatever that may be. I do know the government has gotten very paranoid about it, but I doubt they have any real idea how to combat it.

    I do wonder though if the "Crusaders" are also counting and/or are concerned about the women who are married off in exchange for dowries, family alliances, and business deals? In my opinion that is certainly a form of sex trafficking.

    I did watch a German talk show last week that discussed the legal sex trade there. It included a currently active escort who is also politically engaged on behalf of sex workers, the ex-prostitute who called everything horrible and called for the banning of the industry, a brothel owner who said things could be improved in the industry but there are limits, and a customer of escorts/brothels that wants the street walkers dealt with before any more changes are made to the laws. A rather interesting show where sex trafficking did come up, but none of them could agree on a solution or how big the problem actually was.

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    Default Re: So Called "Victims" of Sex Trafficking Are Lying?!

    It's a repeat of the anti-porn/anti-sex work crusade of the 1980s.

    America is all about a BS veneer of respectability on top of a mountain of ugly stuff.

    Bashing on sex work makes some people feel better about themselves.

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    Default Re: So Called "Victims" of Sex Trafficking Are Lying?!

    Human trafficking does exist however it mostly occurs outside the United States.

    Like the yeti, big foot, and the holy grail the existence of human trafficking is something that is highly debatable and often over sensationalized.

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    Default Re: So Called "Victims" of Sex Trafficking Are Lying?!

    Quote Originally Posted by GirlDelux View Post
    Human trafficking does exist however it mostly occurs outside the United States.

    Like the yeti, big foot, and the holy grail the existence of human trafficking is something that is highly debatable and often over sensationalized.
    Wow is it that rare and debated in the US?!

    In Europe it's well known that it exists, like when you look at the countries where it's completely legal to both sell and buy sex not even the people running brothels there, in Germany for example, are denying trafficking exists but of course they say that they don't have it in their particular brothel.



    The following is not directed at you or anyone in particular, just some random thoughts:

    I think the sex work debate is usually kind of annoying because it's so polarized most of the time, from both sides, it's like people either don't want to realize that there are problems or they don't want to realize that there are good things about it, there's so much propaganda coming from everywhere.
    I guess that's what happens though when a community is attacked from the outside, when there is a pressure to appear perfect just to be allowed to exist you can't be associated with for example victims of sex trafficking because it complicates your hobby (if you're a buyer) or your job (if you're a worker) and threatens its existence. So you deny problems that others may have, or say they are simply not part of your community and that you're completely separate despite being in the same industry, because they don't fit your agenda.
    This is something that happens not only in the sex work community but in many different communities, I suppose it's a natural reaction to a hostile environment to try to give a simplified and positive view on it even when reality is much more complex. Because the mainstream often can't seem to handle or be ready for complexity - people want a simple right or wrong answer to everything and especially when it comes to subjects where there are a lot of feelings involved, talking about the public, but not so much knowledge or nuances. Like the sex industry.

    This is why I don't like to participate in the political debate, it always ends up so one sided and I find myself agreeing with almost no one.

    Selling sex should not be against the law, of course, we all agree on this, but when people start pretending it's all great and like there are no victims in the industry I just can't take them seriously anymore.

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    Default Re: So Called "Victims" of Sex Trafficking Are Lying?!

    Here's the latest from down under - a very technical paper about the positive outcomes of decriminalization:

    http://http://www.parliament.nsw.gov.au/prod/parlment/committee.nsf/0/a2267e6f980f1d08ca257eae0003976c/$FILE/Submission%20133%20-%20Scarlet%20Alliance_Redacted.pdf

    Criminalization, forced "victim status", the Swedish model, none of them produce positive outcomes. Treating sex workers like respected, self-determining individuals who can make their own choices is what produces long term positive outcomes.

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    Default Re: So Called "Victims" of Sex Trafficking Are Lying?!

    Okay I can actually understand that this does happen a lot with underage children because I grew up with the foster care system and all the girls were trafficked but that is EXACTLY why I think it should be legalized! Legalize it and regulate it then you have more control of it. Just like marijuana and all that other stuff that's illegal.....heck I think alcohol is worse than any of these illegal things..kills more innocent ppl a year
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    Default Re: So Called "Victims" of Sex Trafficking Are Lying?!

    ^^^Exactly! There are real victims - Let's pour every ounce of our current effort into helping them and destroying the people that exploit them. Let's not waste money and destroy consenting adults. When an adult makes a decision to be a sex worker, there is no crime.

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