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Thread: What if I have no money to pay taxes?

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    Default What if I have no money to pay taxes?

    I have been dancing for a little under a year as my only job and I calculated how much money I made and it was exactly enough to cover all of my monthly bills and expenses for the year with about $200 left over. Obviously, I have not been able to save money, and I cannot afford an accountant. I'm not really sure what I should do, I don't work in a very profitable area, and often walk out with >100 per night working 3-4 nights per week. It costs me ~1300 per month which is about what I make per month and have had no room to save, though I do plan on paying taxes, I'm not sure how to go about doing that while I have no money and only make enough to pay to live.

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    Default Re: What if I have no money to pay taxes?

    No one here can tell if you will even owe. We don't know if you have kids or any other deductions to bring your tax liability down.

    If you file yourself or go to an an actual accountant, you are looking at $80 minimum to file (and you only have 4 days left). File after the 15th and you will have late fees. Get on one of the tax websites and e-file ASAP imo. It will walk you through each step and you pay at the end when you file. If you owe taxes and can't pay at that time it will give you your options then, but you will have to pay the filing fees at that time.

    I know it doesn't help right now, but if I were you I would get a vanilla job. For as little as you make, the vanilla job should cover your tax liability next year. Do Vanilla and suppliment with dancing or drop dancing. I personally wouldn't dance for so little money. I'm not rolling in green, but I make more than someone at McDonalds.

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    Default Re: What if I have no money to pay taxes?

    I believe you can get a 120 day extension to pay in full, or else get on a payment plan. Definitely file before the 15th, the no file penalty is 5% of the tax owed, filing but not paying is much less.

    I would guess at 10 months ( you say under a year) and )1600 a month, minus standard deduction and exemption, you have about $5800 taxed at 10%, plus the self employment tax at 15% on all of it. We don't know if you have other deductions or credits available though. If you want to PM me I can try to point you in the right direction.
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    Default Re: What if I have no money to pay taxes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aurora14 View Post
    I'm not rolling in green, but I make more than someone at McDonalds.
    BTW, I'm not trying to hurt any feelings or sound high and mighty by saying this. Everyone has their happy place when it comes to earnings. If you are happy with what you are making, then that is fine. It's just that dancing is a high risk job and it is just my opinion that someone should make more than minimum wage doing this job.

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    Default Re: What if I have no money to pay taxes?

    Quote Originally Posted by xaomin View Post
    I have been dancing for a little under a year as my only job and I calculated how much money I made and it was exactly enough to cover all of my monthly bills and expenses for the year with about $200 left over. Obviously, I have not been able to save money, and I cannot afford an accountant. I'm not really sure what I should do, I don't work in a very profitable area, and often walk out with >100 per night working 3-4 nights per week. It costs me ~1300 per month which is about what I make per month and have had no room to save, though I do plan on paying taxes, I'm not sure how to go about doing that while I have no money and only make enough to pay to live.
    Is there any chance you could work 5-6 nights per week?

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    Default Re: What if I have no money to pay taxes?

    File on time and set up a payment plan

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    Default Re: What if I have no money to pay taxes?

    I am also in the camp of file on time with a payment plan. I'm not casting any stones because I remember what it was like to tough it out while working for similar pay, but it's my opinion that something has got to change in your situation. Either try to cut back your spending, pick up more shifts, or look into a vanilla job.
    Exotic dancing is like any other job.
    If you work in an office, you wear dress shoes and a suit.
    If you work in a restaraunt, you wear skid resistant shoes and a uniform.
    If you work in a strip club, you wear 7" stilettos and lycra g-strings.

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    Default Re: What if I have no money to pay taxes?

    Facts are that, with the 15.3% social security tax which applies to every single dollar of dancing income, even if you are eligible for 'refundable tax credits' you're still going to owe some amount of money to the IRS for taxes due on your 2014 dancing income by the April 15th deadline. Also, by the same April 15th deadline, given that 2015 is no longer your 'first' year in business, you are also going to owe an additional amount of money to the IRS to cover estimated taxes due on the dancing income you earned during the first quarter of 2015 ( i.e. January 1 through April 1 ).

    By the 'letter of the law', your only option is to file your 2014 annual tax return by next Wednesday's deadline, and also apply for an IRS time payment plan a.k.a. 'Installment Agreement'. See

    However, be aware that the end result of this will be ...

    - diverting some 20+% of your future earnings toward paying estimated taxes due on your 'current' income, plus

    - diverting another 20+% of your future earnings toward paying the back taxes owed on your 2014 income ( for the next year )

    I would add that the IRS monitors people utilizing 'Installment Agreements' very closely ( including quarterly estimated tax payments ), and typically comes down 'like a ton of bricks' on people who fall behind on their monthly 'Installment Agreement' payments !!! Signing up for an IRS 'Installment Agreement' also obviously waves a 'red flag' at the IRS that the person has been 'lax' in meeting their tax obligations, potentially resulting in increased IRS audit risk in future years. Just as obviously, the existence of an IRS 'Installment Agreement' will show up on credit reports thus wrecking the person's credit rating ( since the IRS has 'first priority' versus all private lenders in terms of seizing money / assets to satisfy back taxes ).

    Under your current situation of available dancing earnings potential, and current situation regarding rent and other costs of living, this situation is guaranteed to result in bankruptcy before the year is out !!! And you CANNOT escape taxes by filing for bankruptcy. So that basically leaves you with two options. Keep living as you are and find a way to increase your dancing earnings by 40% by whatever means necessary, or keep your dancing earnings as they are and find a way to reduce your present rent and other costs of living by 40% by whatever means necesssary !!!

    I don't mean to come across as being unsympathetic, but for a fact the IRS won't show any sympathy. Besides illegal 'loan sharks', the IRS is the absolute WORST creditor you can possibly owe money to.
    Last edited by Melonie; 04-12-2015 at 07:55 AM.

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    Default Re: What if I have no money to pay taxes?

    ^ is the 120 day extension deal the same as a monthly payment plan? I thought the extension was just to pay the lump sum by X date and I got the impression it wouldn't be treated the same negative way. Granted she would still be busting her ass to cough up the $$.
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    Default Re: What if I have no money to pay taxes?

    Hate saying it, but Melonie is absolutely right. Unless you need a good score in the foreseeable future, I wouldn't worry too much about that because your credit rating can be fixed in time. The major issue is that, unless you find a way to increase your earnings and/or decrease your spending, you are going to dig yourself a hole too deep to climb out of.
    Exotic dancing is like any other job.
    If you work in an office, you wear dress shoes and a suit.
    If you work in a restaraunt, you wear skid resistant shoes and a uniform.
    If you work in a strip club, you wear 7" stilettos and lycra g-strings.

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    Default Re: What if I have no money to pay taxes?

    it completely depends. there were many years that not only didn't have to pay but i actually got 2 or 3 grand back, because i have a child. are you keeping receipts? you are making so little you may even qualify for EIC, depending on several factors.

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    Default Re: What if I have no money to pay taxes?

    is the 120 day extension deal the same as a monthly payment plan? I thought the extension was just to pay the lump sum by X date and I got the impression it wouldn't be treated the same negative way
    Filing for a 120 day extension is NOT treated in the same negative way. The reason for this is that, while the deadline for filing the annual tax return itself is postponed by 4 months, the ( estimated ) tax money owed on the previous year's income must still be paid by the April 15th deadline. In other words, the person filing for the 120 day extension doesn't actually owe the IRS any money, just 'paperwork' ! Thus filing for a 120 day extension wouldn't help the OP at all, since she doesn't have the money to pay her 2014 taxes by this coming Wednesday's deadline.

    Under the circumstances, the only 'legal' option available is for the OP to file for an IRS 'Installment Agreement'. But filing for an 'Installment Agreement' will also commit the OP to pay both the monthly installment payments covering taxes owed on her 2014 income, PLUS paying quarterly estimated tax payments due on her present and future 2015 income.


    there were many years that not only didn't have to pay but i actually got 2 or 3 grand back, because i have a child. are you keeping receipts? you are making so little you may even qualify for EIC
    Indeed, having children who can be claimed as dependents qualifies the person for a different tax filing status ( head of household versus single ) with lower tax rates, potentially qualifies the person for additional ( child care ) tax credits, etc., on top of 'exempting' more of the person's income from income tax. However, this still may not help a whole lot due to the 15.3% social security tax which dancers, camgirls, and other self-employed persons must pay. Obviously, there are lots of individual variables involved.


    The major issue is that, unless you find a way to increase your earnings and/or decrease your spending, you are going to dig yourself a hole too deep to climb out of
    Arguably, the OP has already started to slide down the 'slippery slope' edge of that hole. But yeah, if the present earnings versus spending levels equation isn't changed immediately, within a few months the OP could face a real 'black hole' situation. For example, if she isn't able to keep up with IRS 'Installment Agreement' payments, prompting the IRS to begin 'enforcement' actions, between the time she deposits money in her bank account and the time her rent check, utility bill check etc. can be processed, the IRS could automatically seize those funds as ( partial ) payment for the back taxes she owes ... thus causing her rent and utility checks to 'bounce'. That development could in turn leave the OP on the verge of eviction / utility shutoff, with a ruined credit rating then severely limiting her future options in regard to finding a new, less expensive, place to live. Just sayin !

    Far better to move to a less expensive place now, while her credit report, present landlord payment history, and present utility company payment history, haven't yet started to work against her.
    Last edited by Melonie; 04-12-2015 at 05:03 PM.

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    Default Re: What if I have no money to pay taxes?

    Can you just not file for 2014 and take this as a lesson and put aside 20% of your earnings from now on? And make sure you file and pay on time next year? I'm pretty sure making that much you wouldn't owe anything...you might even be elligible for a refund, so the IRS probably wouldn't look into it. But I'm not American so this is just all musings. I stopped filing taxes in uni for a couple years (I actually need to file last years and 2014 taxes this year) and while it's not the best idea if you ever need to prove your income, it worked out just fine for me.
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    Default Re: What if I have no money to pay taxes?

    ^ She probably won't owe much of anything in regular income tax, but unless she has one of the few credits that reduce self employment tax, she's gonna owe that :/
    I think it's probably best that she files and plays ball with the IRS now, versus facing non-filing fees and interest that will accumulate... that'll only make the hole deeper.

    Oh, and I was referring to the "additional time to pay" bullet on this site:
    http://www.irs.gov/uac/Extensions-and-Payment-Options/
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    Default Re: What if I have no money to pay taxes?

    Can you just not file for 2014 and take this as a lesson and put aside 20% of your earnings from now on? And make sure you file and pay on time next year? I'm pretty sure making that much you wouldn't owe anything...you might even be elligible for a refund, so the IRS probably wouldn't look into it. But I'm not American so this is just all musings.
    One major difference between the US / IRS and other countries' tax agencies is that the IRS has 'led the world' in efforts to force 3rd parties to provide official report of moneys paid to US citizens. One such mandate is the issuance of so-called 1099 forms by strip clubs, webcam hosts etc. which go directly from the strip club / webcam host's accountant to the IRS ( with the dancer / camgirl also receiving a copy ) reporting the total amount of money which was paid to that US citizen during the previous year. After receiving a 1099, IRS computers then attempt to match up a tax return filed by a US citizen with the same name, address, social security number, etc. which has reported and paid taxes on that money. If IRS computers fail to find a matching tax return on file, a 'red flag' is waved ... which will result in human IRS agents investigating further.

    However, while supposedly required by law to do so, in point of fact not every strip club or webcam host actually issues 1099's reporting payments made to US citizens in a timely manner. This leads to a logical conclusion that, if the IRS hasn't received a 1099, IRS computers won't have info / reason to go searching for a matching tax return having been filed. However, besides 1099's, other mandates also exist which force the generation of other types of official 3rd party reports to the IRS. Some of these involve sizeable 'cash' transaction reporting by banks and money order sellers. Some of these involve reporting of 'money transfers' by payment processors. Some of these involve 'title' transaction reporting by state motor vehicle and property registration departments. Some of these involve information sharing with college bursar's offices and student grant agencies regarding the amount of money a particular US citizen is spending on college tuition. Some of these involve the reporting of sizeable purchases by retailers.

    Thus, as a practical matter, if a US citizen dancer worked for a club which does not issue 1099's, does not own / lease a car, does not own / lease real estate, never makes a > $1000 'cash' transaction via bank or money order, doesn't attend college, and never makes a > $3000 retail purchase, IRS computers are not likely to receive any 3rd party reports which would prompt them to automatically go searching for a matching tax return. But such automatic reports aren't the only way that the IRS might receive pertinent information.

    One fairly common way for the existence of dancer incomes to be brought to IRS attention without the issuance of 1099's is via an IRS audit of the strip club's own taxes. As expected, strip clubs which fail to issue the required 1099's to dancers are also much more likely to be disregarding other IRS requirements ( like fully reporting and paying taxes on the club's own income ), and as such are much more likely to be the target of an IRS audit themselves. As part of a strip club IRS audit, the IRS agent could easily turn up dancer 'job' applications, dancer shift schedules etc. which could then be fed into IRS computers for cross checking against dancer tax returns being on file. Another indirect way stems from the dancer applying for any form of gov't assistance ... which may prompt the gov't agency to attempt to verify the person's income and assets for eligibility ( i.e. looking at bank balances, bank deposits etc. ) ... and which in turn may pass on that info to the state tax agency / IRS.

    In regard to other countries, some are now starting to jump on the 3rd party reporting 'bandwagon' which the US IRS pioneered. EU countries are entering into financial information sharing treaties. Canada put FINTRAC into effect on the first of January. Some countries are beginning to require their banks to generate certain reports on account holder transactions. Thus while the US IRS is pretty much alone in it's present degree of 3rd party financial information reporting at this moment, that may not remain the case in the future. The official justification for such 3rd party financial reporting is supposedly the discovery and prevention of terrorist 'money laundering' ... but obviously such 3rd party financial reporting also facilitates increased future collection of tax revenues.


    it's probably best that she files and plays ball with the IRS now, versus facing non-filing fees and interest that will accumulate... that'll only make the hole deeper.
    Indeed, the IRS considers willful failure to file tax returns to be the 'crime' the law says it is. Generally speaking, where the IRS will at least make some co-operative attempt to 'work with' taxpayers who are unable to pay their taxes in a timely manner ( i.e. filing tax returns and requesting monthly payment 'Installment Agreements' to address the back taxes owed ), when it comes to the IRS discovering cases of willful failure to file tax returns the IRS will not be co-operative in the least. This IRS reaction is particularly risky for dancers and others working in 'cash' businesses, because while the lack of 3rd party payment reports prevents the IRS from directly proving that a particular US citizen actually earned $30,000 or whatever last year, the same lack of 3rd party payment reports prevents that US citizen from proving that they 'only' earned $30,000 if the IRS 'estimates' they actually earned $40,000 !!! And, as you point out, the IRS also assesses under-withholding penalty charges and interest charges on unpaid tax money from the dates it was originally owed, in addition to imposing possible 'criminal' fines for willful tax avoidance ( a.k.a. tax fraud ).

    Also, obviously, in cases where willful tax avoidance ( a.k.a. tax fraud ) becomes an issue, that will be reflected in the person's permanent criminal record ... which is also available to every potential 'straight job' employer, every potential lender, etc. And even in cases where willful tax avoidance ( a.k.a. tax fraud ) is NOT an issue, the existence of back tax debts will appear prominently on the person's credit report ... which is also typically available to potential 'straight job' employers and potential lenders. So, yes, being 'caught' failing to file a tax return will have repurcussions which extend far beyond simply paying the back tax money owed to the IRS.


    As a side note, at this point the April 15th deadline for filing 2014 annual tax returns, and for paying first quarter 2015 estimated taxes, has now passed. However, from the standpoint of potential IRS reaction, filing a 'late' tax return ... even a year or two years late ... is still preferable to simply failing to file. The reason, of course, is that the IRS cannot raise willful tax avoidance ( a.k.a. tax fraud ) issues if tax return(s) are filed before the IRS eventually discovers the existence of taxable income and IRS computers eventually start searching for - and fail to find - matching tax returns.
    Last edited by Melonie; 04-15-2015 at 11:16 PM.

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    Default Re: What if I have no money to pay taxes?

    Stripperweb is not the place to go for tax advice, your needs will not be the same as mine were or any other ladies on here. You should talk to a professional CPA with experience doing dancers' taxes. I was so confused when I went to my CPA and he gave me completely different advice than I got on here, it was much less stressful and I ended up only owing 1/2 of what I thought I was going to owe.

    I honestly do not think stripping is worth it if you are not making more than $300 per night. We do not get benefits, we do our own taxes, we have to put up with sexual assault on a nightly basis, we have zero job security, have to pay our own healthcare, pay to work, pay for our outfits and shoes, pay to keep up our bodies and take time off to keep up our minnds, the awful social stigma and it leaves a huge hole in our resumes if we ever want to find a vanilla job. Get a side job, and strip on the side if you want have to. I personally would not report since you made so little.

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    Default Re: What if I have no money to pay taxes?

    Quote Originally Posted by NightGoddess View Post
    I honestly do not think stripping is worth it if you are not making more than $300 per night. We do not get benefits, we do our own taxes, we have to put up with sexual assault on a nightly basis, we have zero job security, have to pay our own healthcare, pay to work, pay for our outfits and shoes, pay to keep up our bodies and take time off to keep up our minnds, the awful social stigma and it leaves a huge hole in our resumes if we ever want to find a vanilla job. Get a side job, and strip on the side if you want have to. I personally would not report since you made so little.
    Good point. Stripping is a business and if you're not grossing $75,000/year, it's not really worth it. If you have kids or tuition, then you need to gross more. Or, you need to work on high volume nights and stay home the rest of the week. When I was stripping in college, I only worked Thursday, Friday and Saturday nights. Really only two of those three most of the time. Summers, I would work five or even six nights a week. But, I had no kids at home and a roommate so my rent and utilities were half. The negative of that schedule is, I didn't have what most people would call a college experience. I might go to one party a month. I had different boyfriends and even a girlfriend in college, but not anything you would call a great romance. No season basketball tickets for me. No season football tickets. Not many trips to the opera or the symphony.

    Stripping's got to pay, or you do something else. It's not glamorous. It's all about the $.

    HTH
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    Default Re: What if I have no money to pay taxes?

    Stripping's got to pay, or you do something else. It's not glamorous. It's all about the $.
    Absolute agreement with this. Between the need to pay a 15.3% social security tax, the total lack of benefits ( including disability and unemployment insurance ), the potential negative effects on future 'straight' job / career pursuits, remote but non-zero risk of being busted, etc., dancing must provide a significant income to be 'worth it'. While I might differ with Zofia or NightGoddess in picking a dollar figure, it's certainly got to be significantly better than the $20,000 per year which can be earned flipping burgers !!!


    Stripperweb is not the place to go for tax advice, your needs will not be the same as mine were or any other ladies on here. You should talk to a professional CPA with experience doing dancers' taxes. I was so confused when I went to my CPA and he gave me completely different advice than I got on here, it was much less stressful and I ended up only owing 1/2 of what I thought I was going to owe.
    Total agreement with this as well. The regular Dollar Den posters are ( ex ) dancers and camgirls, not financial professionals, and certainly not tax attorneys or CPA's.

    However, in fairness, being 'aggressive' about business expense tax deductions and having them disallowed after IRS audit will be YOUR problem, not the problem of the accountant who recommended that you take such deductions. On the 'flip side' nothing ventured, nothing gained. This is always a judgement call. It obviously helps if the CPA who recommended taking 'aggressive' tax deductions will be available to help explain the justification if and when an IRS audit takes place. Since none of the regular Dollar Den posters are in that position, the opinions usually offered in Dollar Den are 'conservative' where tax deductions are concerned.

    I'll also reiterate that individual financial, family, and other circumstances can and do introduce a huge number of variables into an individual's specific tax situation. As such, the opinions usually offered in Dollar Den tend to be 'conservative' where tax percentages etc. are concerned as well.
    Last edited by Melonie; 04-16-2015 at 03:09 PM.

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