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Thread: Are 'those days' ever going to come back?

  1. #26
    Featured Member Starling's Avatar
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    Default Re: Are 'those days' ever going to come back?

    Quote Originally Posted by NightGoddess View Post
    I'm in Oklahoma, and we are making good money in topless bars. It's not the economy. It's your hustle.
    Oklahoma is doing good right now compared to other states. There are lower unemployment rates and I very much considered moving there myself because there are tons of jobs for me out there and more opportunities, that I could never hope for in other areas of the country I've lived. I'm also aware of the good earnings potentials in OK clubs compared to other places, but ended up not going due to a big vice presence (or so I was told).

    Some areas are just crap and it doesn't matter if the girl is a good hustler when the clubs are literal ghost towns. I had the misfortune to dance several times in central New York and the club quality and customer (and earnings potential) drastically changes when I cross state lines to PA or NJ (or downstate NY).


    Quote Originally Posted by tempest666 View Post
    Even the Roman Empire showed outward signs of prosperity while going down the shitter. It's not going to happen all at once.
    Going to those states feels a lot like going back in time in certain respects.

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    Default Re: Are 'those days' ever going to come back?

    Quote Originally Posted by kaninchen View Post
    The sex industry itself will never be obsolete...We are not replaceable, after all, what other careers span the entirety of human civilization?.
    I agree that the sex industry itself will never die. HOWEVER, that doesn't mean that dancing isn't going to die. Strip clubs do not span the entirety of human civilization, they're pretty modern. So the question is, where is the industry going? Unfortunately, the answer right now appears to be free, streaming porn. When I was growing up kids were fighting each over to see a page of the Penthouse magazine they found in the field behind the convenience store. Now, everyone has high-definition streaming videos of basically every even remotely sexual act available at the click of a button. And then we expect them to come to a strip club and shower us with money because we do a little naked dance in their lap? It's quaint, really. And typing this makes me sad, but I think I'm right. Strip clubs are going to go the way of burlesque acts: the kind of thing that's socially acceptable but not terribly lucrative if you're not Dita Von Teese.

    I think the best thing we can do as dancers is keep our eyes open for where the sex industry is heading and prepare to jump ship once an opportunity presents itself.

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    Default Re: Are 'those days' ever going to come back?

    This thread has made me really, really sad I want the Golden Age of the Stripper back!! I never got to experience it in the first place......

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  6. #29
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    Default Re: Are 'those days' ever going to come back?

    ^^Well, let's discuss recession-proof industries for a second. No matter HOW badly the economy is doing, the following industries will always flourish, because people cannot live without them:

    * Food industry
    * Entertainment industry (even during the Great Depression, families would spend their last dime on movie tickets in order to escape their miserable lives. They often went hungry in exchange to be entertained.)
    * Drug industry (whether legal or not, drugs are recession proof)

    Sex work falls under the entertainment industry obviously, but at the same time, sex work is not essential to live. Men can live without it. They have the option to masturbate for free, or watch porn for free, etc. They don't HAVE to pay for it. This is a humbling FACT that we, as sex workers, must admit to ourselves.

    Move on, adapt, spiral out into other industries. I am going to start a vanilla job soon. As much as I hate vanilla jobs and the ridiculousness that comes with it, my heart is just not in sex work anymore.
    "Dancing tables, making deals with devils like a drunk beauty queen"

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    Default Re: Are 'those days' ever going to come back?

    I fucking love us.

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  10. #31
    Banned Melonie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Are 'those days' ever going to come back?

    * Entertainment industry (even during the Great Depression, families would spend their last dime on movie tickets in order to escape their miserable lives. They often went hungry in exchange to be entertained.)
    This is a poignant observation which deserves expanding on ...

    Yes certain types of entertainment did extremely well in times of economic strife. Ultimate examples are 'fantasy' films 'the Wizard of Oz' in the late 30's, and 'Star Wars' in the late 70's. Both represented a total departure from the reality of the times. Both represented what was at their core simplistic 'children's' stories ( granted deeper elements are present in both cases, but it's not necessary to notice or understand those deeper elements to enjoy the story / film ). And both represented a battle between good and evil.

    Arguably, during those same time periods, 'live' entertainment suffered severely. Vaudeville was devastated during the 1930's, while 'free' radio grew in popularity. Similar situation regarding Burlesque in the late 70's, with ''free' TV growing in popularity.

    It's not much of a stretch to update the film titles to 'The Hobbit', and to update the mass media type to 'free' internet. Unfortunately, exotic dancers providing 'live' performances which are not suitable for 'family' entertainment shares similarities to Vaudeville and Burlesque.


    However, I also agree with your observation that some people are willing to 'go hungry' in exchange for meaningful entertainment. Again, unfortunately, the best present day analogy I can think of is broke strip club customers making the decision to be late on their rent / car payment, or to eat Ramen noodles for the rest of the week, in order to pay for 'extras' in a dirty strip club.


    food industry ... drug industry
    In point of fact, this really isn't the case today, or at least not 'across the board'. If you check on the performance / profits of major food / restaurant companies, you'll find that the 'upscale' and 'cheapest available option' segments are doing well, while the 'middle' segment is having major problems. And in regard to drugs, I was surprised to hear 'legal' marijuana companies screaming about nearly non-existant profit margins because their 'costs of doing business' makes them uncompetitive versus 'foreign imports'. See


    Strip clubs are going to go the way of burlesque acts: the kind of thing that's socially acceptable but not terribly lucrative if you're not Dita Von Teese.
    Arguably, if one 'follows the money', the 30's, the late 70's, and recent times all share a common thread ... the 'rich' get 'richer', while the 'poor' get 'poorer', and the 'middle class' slowly disappears. Applying that to the exotic dancing business model, this arguably corresponds to successful dancers either being able to access the 'rich', or being willing to offer the disappearing 'middle class' enough 'bang for their buck' to convince them to open their increasingly empty wallets, with the 'poor' having already been priced out of the market.


    I agree that the sex industry itself will never die. HOWEVER, that doesn't mean that dancing isn't going to die
    Taken to the extreme, it's arguable, of course, whether the latter option already fails to meet the original definition of a 'strip club' ... as opposed to a 'brothel' with dancers performing in the 'waiting room'.
    Last edited by Melonie; 04-17-2015 at 02:46 AM.

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    Default Re: Are 'those days' ever going to come back?

    Quote Originally Posted by stripperMBA View Post
    Most of my boomer and older regulars stopped coming in after the housing crash. Since their retirement income has been cut they are not going to come back or will only give me 200 verses the 700 they used to. I think there is still money in escorting, and dominatrix work with enough marketing. But as far as I can tell the golden days of stripping are down the toilet. Better to accept this and plan to exit than stay in and become miserable due to shitty working conditions. Either that or be willing to become an extras girl in order to keep making money. I am gonna pass on that though.
    But please ladies do not let this bring u down. Use this as motivation to go into another business or branch out in life to other things. Because eventually everyone stops working at the strip club.
    Escort, dominatrix (and similar niches) have plenty of money. Like, thousands of money in just a few hours type of money. Often, intercourse is not even required.





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  13. #33
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    Default Re: Are 'those days' ever going to come back?

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie View Post
    ^^^ this question has been covered in lots of other threads. For a fact, some permanent changes have taken place which had a huge negative effect on the exotic dancing industry since the late 90's ...

    - lawsuits brought by female stockbrokers resulted in court decisions banning the business expense tax deduction for businessmen to entertain clients in strip clubs. This resulted in billions of dollars worth of strip club customer spending reductions.

    - economic and tax policies since the late 90's have resulted in the vast majority of strip club customers having smaller take-home paychecks, and even smaller 'discretionary' spending dollars left over after paying for necessities like rent, food, energy, insurance etc. This resulted in additional strip club customer spending reductions.

    - between a 'tightening' market for unskilled jobs, as well as a progressive change in general 'attitude' toward sex, a large number of younger girls have turned to exotic dancing as a means to 'pay their bills' over the course of the last few years. This has lowered the customer to dancer ratio in most strip clubs. As a consequence, the relatively same number of strip club customer 'discretionary' dollars must now be split among more dancers.

    - the influx of younger dancers with a more liberal 'attitude' toward sex, in combination with the amount of non-contact sexually related content available on the internet, on cable TV, etc. have gradually pushed both strip club customers to expect high contact levels from dancers, as well as pushed dancers to provide high levels of contact. Over recent years, this has arguably resulted in a fundamental change in the strip club business model from 'show business' to 'sex business'. It's entirely possible that girls who treat their dancing jobs as 'sex business' can still earn an average $1000 a night. But it is now all but impossible for girls who treat their dancing jobs as 'show business' to do so.

    As Tempest666 already pointed out, I really don't see any way for the exotic dancing industry to ever return to the 'golden days' of the late 90's, simply because many of the underlying conditions which made those 'golden days' possible have now changed forever.
    That's exactly right. I danced in Atlanta for over 7 years in the early to mid 90's so I remember how it was. you also have so many more girls to compete with, sex is readily available and strip clubs are expensive nights out now. And that's not including the price of dances. Just to get in and have a drink. All things change

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    Banned Melonie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Are 'those days' ever going to come back?

    strip clubs are expensive nights out now. And that's not including the price of dances. Just to get in and have a drink. All things change
    This particular point is, for better or worse, the 'foundation' from which all of the other negative changes to the exotic dancing industry arguably stem from. Between paying the cover charge, the drink minimum, and a few obligatory $1 tips, spending an hour in a strip club costs at least $30-40-50 without ever getting near the private dance area. These days, $30-40-50 constitutes the entire weekly 'discretionary' spending budget for some 50% of American guys in the strip club customer demographic age range.

    In different threads, I have made the point that the vast majority of dancer earnings potential these days actually stems from American guys in the top 80-99% earnings range - with most of that dancer earnings potential actually being concentrated with guys in the top 90-99% earnings range. This is because, after paying for 'necessities' like taxes, rent / mortgage, insurance, food, energy, and debt service, they are the only ones who still have 'hundreds' of dollars worth of weekly 'discretionary' budget available to spend on multiple private dances, VIP / CR, etc.

    But back to your point ... and I'll try to phrase this very carefully ... this change has typically NOT been the result of strip clubs significantly increasing their cover charges, drink prices, or private dance prices. Instead it is attributable to average pay rates not rising much since the 90's, while the cost of taxes, insurance, food, energy etc. has risen significantly.
    Last edited by Melonie; 04-18-2015 at 06:29 AM.

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    Featured Member JessRyan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Are 'those days' ever going to come back?

    "But back to your point ... and I'll try to phrase this very carefully ... this change has typically NOT been the result of strip clubs significantly increasing their cover charges, drink prices, or private dance prices. Instead it is attributable to average pay rates not rising much since the 90's, while the cost of taxes, insurance, food, energy etc. has risen significantly."

    oh, right on Melonie. I didn't think about that, but so true.

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    Default Re: Are 'those days' ever going to come back?

    this change has typically NOT been the result of strip clubs significantly increasing their cover charges, drink prices, or private dance prices. Instead it is attributable to average pay rates not rising much since the 90's, while the cost of taxes, insurance, food, energy etc. has risen significantly."

    oh, right on Melonie. I didn't think about that, but so true.
    And if you point this toward this thread's original question ... 'Are 'those days' ever going to come back?' ... there's not a whole lot of reason for optimism. For example, a recently released study showed that 6 out of 10 'fastest growing' jobs in America pay $15 an hour or less. Even on a 'full time' basis, this yields $31k annual, or $1500 per month in 'pre tax' income ... which probably drops to $1200 per month after tax for a single guy in many states. Unless that guy is living in his parent's basement ( i.e. zero rent payments ), there's no way he's going to have any significant amount of 'discretionary' money left over at the end of the month to spend on 'luxuries' like private dances. And even if that guy IS living in his parent's basement, if he must make a $500+ monthly student loan payment, he's not going to have any significant amount of 'discretionary' money left over to spend on 'luxuries' like private dances either.

    Thus the growth in cheap-ass strip club customers you referred to, who must confine their spending to paying the cover charge, buying the minimum 2 drinks, handing out a few $1 tips, etc. if he goes to a strip club once a week ... and maybe splurging on some private dances or a short VIP during his strip club visit if he only goes to a club once a month ( providing, of course, that the dancer is willing to provide sufficient 'bang' for the customer's hundred 'bucks' ) !!!

    However, what the recently released study doesn't show is the number of former high-paying American jobs which are being lost, and not replaced 'in kind'. This refers to former $35 an hour Detroit auto jobs morphing into $18 an hour auto jobs in southern states, former $80k per year skilled jobs morphing into $50k skilled jobs being filled by H1-B visa foreign workers, etc. And even for 'middle class' workers whose jobs aren't so affected, stagnant paychecks in the face of rising taxes, rising costs for rent, rising costs for insurance, rising food and utility prices, etc. still leaves them with less money available to spend on 'luxuries' after paying for more expensive 'necessities'. These sort of 'middle class' club customers were the 'bread and butter' for suburban and neighborhood clubs in the 90's, and have gradually been disappearing ever since.

    The cold, hard facts are that exotic dancing depends on 'luxury' spending ... and, outside of top 90%-99 earners group at least, club customers simply now have less money available to spend on 'luxuries'. Less money coming in through a club's front door translates into less potential dancer earnings, pure and simple.
    Last edited by Melonie; 04-19-2015 at 10:29 AM.

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    Default Re: Are 'those days' ever going to come back?

    Unless you meet Marty fucking McFly no those days are never coming back. End of story.
    "Fake tits are like Kevlar. They don't guarantee your chances of survival but they sure as hell improve it."
    Tempest

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    Default Re: Are 'those days' ever going to come back?

    There might be less customers, more competition etc. but those statistics don't mean that every striker can't make major money. You just gotta work harder/smarter and hone your skills. Survival of the fittest...

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    Default Re: Are 'those days' ever going to come back?

    Even the top predators eventually die out when the resources run out.
    "Fake tits are like Kevlar. They don't guarantee your chances of survival but they sure as hell improve it."
    Tempest

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    Default Re: Are 'those days' ever going to come back?

    Well when it was great and easy money its wasnt dirty everywhere I worked. The supply and demand of extras was not the norm. What I see for $20.00 I wouldnt even do for $400.00 a hour. I personally notice a lot of girls going home with customers, where I never noticed all the signs of it before.

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    Default Re: Are 'those days' ever going to come back?

    Even the top predators eventually die out when the resources run out.
    that's the essential translation of the business warning about depending on 'an increasing share of a declining market'.


    There might be less customers, more competition etc. but those statistics don't mean that every striker can't make major money. You just gotta work harder/smarter and hone your skills
    That is undoubtedly true of the 'upscale' big city strip clubs where the customer base still has a significant amount of available 'discretionary' money to spend. But working harder or smarter isn't all that likely to result in an 'average' dancer being hired by an 'upscale' big city club ( thus being allowed access to major customer spending capability ) if she doesn't 'measure up' to the 'upscale' clubowner's hiring standards. Even if that 'average' dancer has a superior hustle and surgical sales skills, if the customer base of a neighborhood / suburban strip club is on very limited budgets, her ability to earn double or triple the amount of fellow 'average' dancers in those clubs may still result in rather disappointing earnings levels. 2 or 3 times 'next to nothing' still doesn't amount to major money !

    Also, it's probably less true of neighborhood / suburban clubs that depend on 'middle class' customers with far more limited budgets such that 'extras' have become the norm. No amount of sales skills is likely to help if the customers expect 'extras' and a given dancer isn't comfortable providing those 'extras'. Well, there is an exception ... 'false advertising' ... i.e. promising the customer 'extras' to get them to spend money, and then not actually delivering. However, given the number of strip club review websites, strip club customer blog sites, etc., such 'false advertising' usually doesn't work for very long these days.


    Well when it was great and easy money its wasnt dirty everywhere I worked. The supply and demand of extras was not the norm. What I see for $20.00 I wouldnt even do for $400.00 a hour. I personally notice a lot of girls going home with customers, where I never noticed all the signs of it before.
    Indeed, it was this sort of stuff that convinced me to retire from live dancing altogether. Besides reflecting an almost total transition from 'show business' to 'sex business', this new strip club business model also creates an increased bust risk for 'clean' dancers via 'guilt by association' ( made even worse by 'strippers' now having near zero credibility with judges and jury members ).
    Last edited by Melonie; 04-21-2015 at 01:43 PM.

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    Default Re: Are 'those days' ever going to come back?

    When I started in 1992 there were no private dances. It was all stage money and polaroids. I was making $800 in 4 hours. NO LAP DANCES. When private no contact dances came around to one of my clubs in 1994 or 95 I was making $1200 in 5 hours. In 2005 The market was saturated and we now had champagne rooms. I was making $1500-2500 a night. I left in 2007 and came back in 2011 where I was lucky to leave with $300 on a weeknight after a 7 hour shift. It's gone, it's not coming back. So many clubs have closed down. So many fees the clubs are charging us. In the 90's I was GETTING PAID $10 an hour by the club to dance. Now you have to pay $50 anywhere before you actually make any money of your own. Unless something major happens and they start paying us waitress wages and treating us like employees (and getting rid of the girls that should really be escorts elsewhere), it will never be the same. I won't live to see it. I'm 41. I may look 25 or 30 but I don't have many dancing years left. I also lost my tolerance and patience for the life. I will now only do it on occasion when I need to make money quickly and can't wait 2 weeks for a paycheck.

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    Default Re: Are 'those days' ever going to come back?

    ^ OMG reading that makes me nauseous. I didn't know it used to be THAT good. Fuck!

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    Default Re: Are 'those days' ever going to come back?

    LOL. Sorry....but it's true. AT the one place in Allentown I worked I traveled about 45 minutes to get there so the manager also gave me a $50 shell gas gift card once a week. That was circa 1997.


    Also, since there was no private dance room back in the day, if a guy liked you he would tip you a $20 on stage. If he wanted your absolute attention he would make it rain 5's, 10's, 20's. There was no other way to tip us or give us money. There was no negotiating anything. Back then you also made extra money based on your costuming. Short shorts and bikini top was lazy......sequins, feathers, and bedazzling your own outfits got you way more tips. It was low pressure back then. No hustling, no nothing. We ALL did our hair and makeup and were meticulous abut our shoes and outfits. Truly a whole different world. And like a stupid young dumbass, I DIDN'T APPRECIATE IT until later in life when I had to start hustling and competing.

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    Default Re: Are 'those days' ever going to come back?

    Sigh, I really was born at the wrong time.

    I guess I'm just thankful that it's still enough money to pay the bills working part-time. Considering most states haven't raised the minimum wage in decades, I think it's safe to say that we're not the only industry suffering. When I look at my friends who work for $7 an hour all day every day, I feel amazingly lucky to be able to make $50 an hour dancing most nights.

    It's not an industry that is ever likely to completely vanish, anyway. More likely it's just going to become mainstreamed like any other specialised work and remain a middle class job. Notice the growing popularity of "cuddle houses" where people pay $20-50 an hour to be platonically cuddled. There will always be a large-scale need for human affection, and for sex. And there will always be a lack of people interested in providing intimacy like that to strangers, even as it becomes less taboo.

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    Default Re: Are 'those days' ever going to come back?

    If shoving buttplugs up your pooper isn't a sign this industry is going down the shitter I don't know what to tell ya.
    "Fake tits are like Kevlar. They don't guarantee your chances of survival but they sure as hell improve it."
    Tempest

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    Default Re: Are 'those days' ever going to come back?

    That's why everyone should find something else they're interested in. Doesn't have to just be a "vanilla job" it can be a career that you actually like. I've had plenty of shitty jobs that I would never spend my whole life doing (restaurant/desk jobs) but there are a lot of other options out there. I'm reading a book right now and the author says the point of living is to find meaning and there are 3 ways to find meaning = love, work (in something you enjoy), and courage to get through difficult times. Stripping is flexible and can be done while looking for something else to spend your life doing. Just my opinion anyway.

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    Default Re: Are 'those days' ever going to come back?

    Stripping is flexible and can be done while looking for something else to spend your life doing. Just my opinion anyway.
    In the way of full disclosure, it's also noteworthy to point out yet another difference between dancing during the 'golden age' and dancing today. Back in the 90's there were no such thing as 1099 dancer income reports being sent by clubs to the IRS. Back in the 90's, there were no strip club websites posting promo pics of dancers. Back in the 90's, there was no way a customer could take pictures of dancers in a strip club without their knowledge, and no way for that customer to widely distribute such pictures even if taken. And due to the near non-existence of 'extras', club busts in the 90's were virtually unheard of. Put another way, back in the 90's a dancer could work at strip clubs and later enter the mainstream job market with a high degree of confidence that her previous work as a 'stripper' would remain a secret.

    Obviously, the situation today is substantially different. 1099's issued by strip clubs can be turned up during in-depth background checks. Pictures of dancers which have found their way to the internet are potentially subject to being 'stumbled on' by friends and acquaintances, as well as potentially being subject to facial recognition search matchups. The heightened presence of conspicuous 'extras' has also increased the chances of a ( bogus ) club bust, with ( bogus ) charges then appearing on the busted dancer's permanent record. As such, there is a growing risk that working as a dancer will NOT remain a secret ... with the discovery of said work history as a 'stripper' having a potential negative effect on available options for 'life after stripping'.

  38. #49
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    Default Re: Are 'those days' ever going to come back?

    I hear about these days a lot as well. I am GLAD I did not start dancing right away. I spent four years in the military and entered dancing a lot more level-headed than the young girls I see.

    I will continue to dance as planned (until I finish school) and will only stop if I cannot maintain an average of over 500/night, which I don't see happening anytime soon. I'm not gonna sour myself with things that have been but weren't even for me to begin with.

    Seriously the older dancers who tell me this shit just leave me wondering wtf they did when they were making thousands a night for years for them to still be here at 40.

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    Default Re: Are 'those days' ever going to come back?

    This thread makes me kinda upset. I was thinking about making stripping my lifetime career to save as much as possible and retire early(kinda like Melonie) but I guess, it's a bad idea,considering stagnation of this industry...:/

    I started dancing just 6 months ago,so never witnessed golden days of stripping,unfortunately.

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