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Thread: Need a new bank

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    Featured Member kaninchen's Avatar
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    Default Need a new bank

    I have extremely limited experience with banks. I've only used one, and I chose it because it was across the street from my very first retail job as an 18 year old. Unfortunately, they really suck. Their customer service is terrible and they have bajillions of fees.

    I want a new bank to set up a savings account and do normal bank things without paying the bank to hold my money. I know that I could Google some of this, but I'm curious to find out what other sex industry workers have found to be good and bad about various banks, and specifically get recommendations from the financially savvy ladies here.

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    Default Re: Need a new bank

    I recommend local credit unions over banks. That's just my personal preference because IMO banks are greedy and charge way too many fees. Local credit unions function similar to banks, except credit unions are not for profit and are more community-based. I never get charged any fees for having both a savings account and a checking account. The customer service at credit unions in my experience are usually wonderful and they always worked with me on things. They care alot about the local community and are very friendly and helpful towards those who are self-employed.
    "Dancing tables, making deals with devils like a drunk beauty queen"

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    Banned Melonie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Need a new bank

    It seems to be a trade-off. While local credit unions are very concerned about the 'community' they serve, they also tend to be overly concerned about the financial activities of their account holders.

    On the flip side, major banks typically pay near zero attention to account holder financial activities beyond the bare minimum regulatory requirements. However, major banks have higher expenses than credit unions, which usually means lower interest rates paid and higher fees charged.

    There is also a recent trend of banks and credit unions alike shying away from opening / maintaining accounts for persons they discover to be involved in 'high risk' industries. This is the result of the FDIC and bank regulators. However, one major bank Wells Fargo has gone on record that it actively welcomes 'adult' industry related banking business.

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    Featured Member kaninchen's Avatar
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    Default Re: Need a new bank

    Quote Originally Posted by ScarletKitten View Post
    I recommend local credit unions over banks. That's just my personal preference because IMO banks are greedy and charge way too many fees. Local credit unions function similar to banks, except credit unions are not for profit and are more community-based. I never get charged any fees for having both a savings account and a checking account. The customer service at credit unions in my experience are usually wonderful and they always worked with me on things. They care alot about the local community and are very friendly and helpful towards those who are self-employed.
    Did you ever have any trouble depositing stripper-level amounts of cash?

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    Default Re: Need a new bank

    Quote Originally Posted by kaninchen View Post
    Did you ever have any trouble depositing stripper-level amounts of cash?
    I used Indiana University Federal Credit Union. They had branches in Indy, and more importantly for my Louisville travelling dancing New Albany, Indiana. That way, the two most common cities for my dancing had local ATMs for deposits. The really good thing about Credit Unions is they take deposits for each other. So, I could make my nightly deposits without much trouble. When I found out that credit unions take each other's deposits, I used a credit union in Fort Lauderdale when I danced there a few times. Worked like a charm. Some local credit unions only have ATMs at their branches and not big networks around town. That's a drawback. But IU had a good network of ATMs around Indy, Bloomington and of course New Albany/Louisville. SECU, and Coastal Federal Credit Unions which are around North Carolina have a massive network of ATMs, that allow me to access my IU Federal CU accounts even now. Of course, I have to carry two debit cards or I'll never get money into the right accounts. But, use the right debit card and money goes right where it's supposed to. :-)

    HTH
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    Default Re: Need a new bank

    Strippers are far from the only people who need to routinely deposit cash. Housecleaners, lawn maintenance workers, concessions owners, convenience store owners, restaurant owners and workers, and many others who run or work in businesses that are still cash heavy need to deposit cash on a routine basis. Small community banks and credit unions often serve many of these folks, especially since their fees are non-existent and their support is adequate for what most of these people need.

    The main concern of any bank that accepts cash is the laundering of money from illegal activities. Banks are subject to very onerous requirements under the USA PATRIOT Act, which requires them to monitor for suspicious activities and to take action when they believe that they have found it. I doubt that the level of cash that a single stripper will normally deposit will trigger any flags in the systems of most banks. Just make a habit of depositing your cash on a routine basis and not allowing it to build up too much before you deposit it and you should be fine.

    Now if you are going to travel a great deal then I might suggest a bigger bank, but if most of what you do is local then I believe that a community bank or a credit union could serve you well.

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    Default Re: Need a new bank

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie View Post
    It seems to be a trade-off. While local credit unions are very concerned about the 'community' they serve, they also tend to be overly concerned about the financial activities of their account holders.
    I doubt credit unions are any more concerned about the financial activities of their account holders than any banks are. As long as you're not engaging in illegal activities, you don't have anything to worry about.

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    Default Re: Need a new bank

    Quote Originally Posted by kaninchen View Post
    Did you ever have any trouble depositing stripper-level amounts of cash?
    Nope, I've never had any issues so far. Of course, I never deposit anything over $1,000 at a time.
    "Dancing tables, making deals with devils like a drunk beauty queen"

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    Default Re: Need a new bank

    I doubt credit unions are any more concerned about the financial activities of their account holders than any banks are. As long as you're not engaging in illegal activities, you don't have anything to worry about.
    I would only point out that, while dealing with large cumulative amounts of cash isn't illegal, it can result in the financial institution generating a 'suspicious activity' report to the IRS. Whether or not that is something worth worrying about depends on individual circumstances. However, there are a few published examples of the potential worst - worst - worst case scenario ... see . Public backlash after the publication of such incidents has supposedly resulted in the IRS 'backing off' on such policies, but who knows. Note the comment from IRS chief of Criminal Investigations Richard Weber - "making deposits under $10,000 to evade reporting requirements, called structuring, is still a crime whether the money is from legal or illegal sources". If such a worst-worst-worst case scenario were to happen to a dancer, she could have an extremely difficult time proving to the IRS that her mostly cash based dancing earnings were indeed the result of 100% 'legal' activities.

    My comment about credit unions stemmed from the fact that most branch offices are usually small compared to major banks ... meaning that using the same branch for repetitive cash deposits is more likely to attract attention from the same small handful of tellers. My comment about credit unions also stemmed from the fact that credit union management tends to be more 'lax' than major bank management, which can lead to teller 'gossip' etc. being tolerated. During my pre-dancing days, I was actually on the board of a small credit union for a couple of years.
    Last edited by Melonie; 05-09-2015 at 06:30 PM.

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    Featured Member kaninchen's Avatar
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    Default Re: Need a new bank

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie View Post
    If such a worst-worst-worst case scenario were to happen to a dancer, she could have an extremely difficult time proving to the IRS that her mostly cash based dancing earnings were indeed the result of 100% 'legal' activities.
    I think this is the only upside to working in clubs that issue tax documents! I can actually prove that my money comes from a legit source, fortunately.

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    Default Re: Need a new bank

    Quote Originally Posted by rickdugan View Post
    Strippers are far from the only people who need to routinely deposit cash. Housecleaners, lawn maintenance workers, concessions owners, convenience store owners, restaurant owners and workers, and many others who run or work in businesses that are still cash heavy need to deposit cash on a routine basis. Small community banks and credit unions often serve many of these folks, especially since their fees are non-existent and their support is adequate for what most of these people need.
    This is such a good point and I constantly forget that there are normal, diurnal people who have all-cash incomes as well.

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    Default Re: Need a new bank

    The I.R.S just seized the account of another business owner saying he was depositing just under 10,000. I don't have a link but I'll try to post his name so you can google the story if i can find it...

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    Default Re: Need a new bank

    Lyndedn Mclelan. Supposedly they seized his whole life savings. 100,000.

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    Default Re: Need a new bank

    The I.R.S just seized the account of another business owner
    I'm not surprised to hear this. The ( supposed ) IRS / gov't policy change was the result of a decision by former attorney general Eric Holder not to prosecute such civil forfeitures. However new attorney general Loretta Lynch aggressively pursued civil forfeitures when she was a US attorney, and could have already reinstated earlier policies. From a purely factual standpoint, all of the pre-existing civil forfeiture laws still remained on the books after Holder announced his 'prosecutorial discretion' based policy change, and we now have a new 'prosecutor'.

    Circling back on topic, civil forfeitures are really an extremely low probability. A more likely, but still relatively low, probability is that bank generated cash transaction reports and/or 'suspicious activity' reports could lead to IRS attention being drawn to the account holder's sources of income / payment of taxes ( or lack thereof ). Either way, choosing a bank which is less likely to 'take notice' of the account holder's cash transactions reduces both of those probabilities. Taking this a step further, setting up a separate business bank account to receive those cash deposits arguably reduces both of those probabilities even further.
    Last edited by Melonie; 05-12-2015 at 03:54 AM.

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    Default Re: Need a new bank

    Lyndon McLellon, happened last July

    While it is ridiculous gov't overreach bordering on criminal behavior, the guy is a moron. Yet another 'the teller told me to do it this way' story.


    On topic and slightly related, while I am a big fan of local banks[and would love to find out what size bank Lyndon used] my bank got bought and they want to hold 'large' checks. Now the only did it once, but I am sorry, I am a 20 year customer, with a over 10 year customer depositing a business check, I don 't want to hear about delays in check clearing.

    So, to the OP, yes, smaller local bank with a good ATM fee free group, but get first person references from fellow dancers or other friends to make sure they are not a pain.

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    Default Re: Need a new bank

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie View Post
    I'm not surprised to hear this. The ( supposed ) IRS / gov't policy change was the result of a decision by former attorney general Eric Holder not to prosecute such civil forfeitures. However new attorney general Loretta Lynch aggressively pursued civil forfeitures when she was a US attorney, and could have already reinstated earlier policies. From a purely factual standpoint, all of the pre-existing civil forfeiture laws still remained on the books after Holder announced his 'prosecutorial discretion' based policy change, and we now have a new 'prosecutor'.

    Circling back on topic, civil forfeitures are really an extremely low probability. A more likely, but still relatively low, probability is that bank generated cash transaction reports and/or 'suspicious activity' reports could lead to IRS attention being drawn to the account holder's sources of income / payment of taxes ( or lack thereof ). Either way, choosing a bank which is less likely to 'take notice' of the account holder's cash transactions reduces both of those probabilities. Taking this a step further, setting up a separate business bank account to receive those cash deposits arguably reduces both of those probabilities even further.
    Honestly I wonder if the business account thing isn't worse. Seems they track those more. I've been with all 3 of my banks for at least 10 years, one 30. They are large banks because I travel and a small local bank won't be all over the country.

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    Default Re: Need a new bank

    ^^^ with business accounts, banks expect somewhat sizeable cash deposits to be made often. Thus the theoretical odds of the bank submitting a 'suspicious activity' report on a business account are lower than for a personal account. However, note the use of 'theoretical'. These days anything appears to be possible.

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    Default Re: Need a new bank

    ^ Those are the ones you hear about them seizing though.

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    Default Re: Need a new bank

    Come audit time, and there are far more audits than seizures, the business bank account will be much appreciated.

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    Default Re: Need a new bank

    IMHO this thread has gone a bit sideways. Kaninchen simply asked for advice about what type of bank would be best for her. Working as a dancer is not illegal, nor is depositing cash. As I indicated before, I sincerely doubt that she will be depositing large enough sums of cash, with sufficient frequency, to even trigger a suspicious activity report filing, nevermind anything as extreme as an account seizure.

    K, if I were you, I would just pick a bank that works best for you in terms of fees vs. services. I and others provided some opinions on that topic above. Just deposit your cash after each shift or two and you will be fine. The biggest risk in depositing cash is that the tax authorities will have access to your bank records for tax assessment purposes, but if you plan on paying taxes on those earnings anyway then you have nothing to worry about.

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    Default Re: Need a new bank

    Working as a dancer is not illegal, nor is depositing cash. As I indicated before, I sincerely doubt that she will be depositing large enough sums of cash, with sufficient frequency, to even trigger a suspicious activity report filing, nevermind anything as extreme as an account seizure.
    I don't mean to be unnecessarily argumentative, but the IRS official I quoted did point out that it is in fact a 'crime' for a person to make repeated cash deposits in amounts of less than $10,000 with intent to avoid IRS reporting. That crime is called 'Structuring'. And who serves to judge what the person's actual intent was ? Where 'adult' industry workers are concerned, the IRS certainly has enough past tax (non) compliance history to assume intent !!! As a side note, most exotic dancers don't have any sort of authoritative 3rd party documentation available to prove to the IRS or a court of law that the cash they are depositing was in fact earned by 100% legal means. Admittedly the odds of an IRS seizure are very low, but they are not zero. Similarly, the probability of a bank or credit union issued 'suspicious activity' report resulting in an IRS audit are low, but also not zero.

    As such, the case can certainly be made that dancers really need to think about the relative probability of particular banks or credit unions taking notice of their cash deposits as a more important selection factor than a bank or credit union's convenient location, marginally lower fees, etc.

    Of course, as my linked article also states, the law has provided dancers with a 100% guaranteed means of avoiding a 'Structuring' charge with associated seizure of funds by the IRS. That option is for the dancer to deliberately save up her nightly earnings in her purse / at home, until she accumulates more than $10,000 in cash. At that point, the cash can be deposited ... with a guarantee that the bank will generate a 'cash transaction' report to the IRS. Of course, the risks involved for a dancer to carry this much cash around, as well as the risks involved by the creation of a large number of 'cash transaction' reports prompting an IRS audit, are another story. Certainly this isn't something I would ever consider doing personally.
    Last edited by Melonie; 05-13-2015 at 04:32 AM.

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    Default Re: Need a new bank

    Melonie,

    I am exceedingly well aware of the restrictions on "structuring" deposits in the U.S., but they were never designed to capture the types of deposits that K is likely to make, unless she expects to be making 8-9k, per night, several nights per week (though it would be a nice problem to have, no?). The businesses that were recently caught up by the IRS were actually guilty of structuring and admitted as much, routinely depositing slightly less than 10k in cash, multiple times per week, in order to keep their deposits from being reported under the large transaction reporting requirements.

    What happened behind the scenes, and really wasn't reported on, is how the IRS knew in the first place. The answer is that the bank compliance departments filed suspicious activity reports, which they are required to do when their systems flag potential structuring activities. Things like consecutive days of depositing $8k+, or multiple deposits of $9k+ in the same week, are the types of transactions that are flagged in bank anti-money laundering compliance programs. Each of the businesses in question had a history of doing these transaction over long periods of time, which finally led to the IRS taking action.

    And in the almost non-existent event that K's transactions ever get to the size AND frequency that they are flagged by bank compliance systems AND the IRS decides to take action based upon a belief of some criminal activity, the burden of proof still lies with them to prove that she earned the money from illegal means. Even more so now that they have recently changed their policies on seizure and enforcement.

    Also, there is no harm in depositing amounts over 10k if you are reporting your income on your taxes anyway. Even if she was one of the unlucky few chosen for an audit, so what? If she is reporting whatever she deposits as income then she is likely to come out of an audit in decent shape.

    Seriously now, these scare stories are both providing the wrong impressions as to what could likely happen to dancers who do the right thing and may unnecessarily lead some to believe that they need to hide their money under a mattress or, even worse, actually try to launder it. If they act normally and deposit their cash as it is earned, whatever the amounts, then it is beyond unlikely that any of them will ever have an issue.

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    Default Re: Need a new bank

    Quote Originally Posted by Zofia View Post
    Come audit time, and there are far more audits than seizures, the business bank account will be much appreciated.
    I do not currently have a business account, only a checking and savings account. I quit my vanilla job and rarely receive checks anymore, I deposit cash in the checking account, and then make some transfers to my savings account or to pay bills, would this be acceptable or should I really consider opening a business account?

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    Default Re: Need a new bank

    these scare stories are both providing the wrong impressions as to what could likely happen to dancers who do the right thing
    ^^^ for the third ( or maybe fourth ) time, IRS seizures based solely on suspicions of 'Structuring' are a VERY LOW PROBABILITY event. Nonetheless, they are a remote possibility. That was the extent of the message I was trying to communicate.

    As to your assertion that the majority of Americans who have been the subject of IRS seizures actually being guilty of 'Structuring', all of the incidents reported in my linked New York Times article don't appear to support that. Admittedly the Times may have 'cherry picked'. However, the NY Times article also specifically states that only one in five IRS seizure 'victims' were actually prosecuted for 'Structuring', which doesn't appear to support your assertion either. The link is . Accepting an IRS settlement agreement does not make a person guilty of 'Structuring'. It merely allows them to regain access to ( what remains of ) their own bank account funds, as well as avoiding potentially large accountant and attorney fees, in exchange for providing the IRS with additional tax dollars.

    In regard to your assertions that dancers 'have nothing to worry about' if audited by the IRS. that would be true if the clubs issued 1099's or other 3rd party documentation as to the amounts the dancer actually earned. However, for virtually every dancer, no such 3rd party documentation exists. This in turn makes self-declared dancer income amounts a topic of potential controversy if audited. I know a couple of dancers who were judged by an IRS auditor to be under-reporting their actual incomes based on 'lifestyle'. They were presented with an IRS 'estimate' of their real income levels, and a deficiency notice for taxes due on the IRS's higher income estimate difference. They were then faced with a choice of accepting a settlement offer and paying the extra tax money, or having their bank accounts seized until they 'got their day' in tax court and were somehow able to prove to a judge that they did not actually earn the increased amount of money which the IRS claimed they earned ( which was improbable lacking 3rd party income documentation ).

    Again the extent of the message I was trying to communicate is that dancers do face a risk of an adverse result if audited by the IRS, even if they have been 100% above board about reporting and paying taxes on their incomes. This is because, as self-employed persons in a predominantly 'cash' business ( as well as a specific type of business which has a deplorable overall tax compliance track record with the IRS ), all of their self-generated financial documentation is open to potential 'credibility' problems.

    However I am in full agreement with you that the real 'problems' originate with banks issuing 'suspicious activity' reports based on their observation of account holders and their cash transactions. Thus it's arguably worthwhile for dancers to consider a particular bank's likelihood of paying ( undue ) attention to individual account holders and their transactions as a factor when selecting a new bank ... which was after all the op's original question.
    Last edited by Melonie; 05-13-2015 at 11:11 AM.

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    Default Re: Need a new bank

    Quote Originally Posted by rickdugan View Post
    IMHO this thread has gone a bit sideways. Kaninchen simply asked for advice about what type of bank would be best for her. Working as a dancer is not illegal, nor is depositing cash. As I indicated before, I sincerely doubt that she will be depositing large enough sums of cash, with sufficient frequency, to even trigger a suspicious activity report filing, nevermind anything as extreme as an account seizure.

    K, if I were you, I would just pick a bank that works best for you in terms of fees vs. services. I and others provided some opinions on that topic above. Just deposit your cash after each shift or two and you will be fine. The biggest risk in depositing cash is that the tax authorities will have access to your bank records for tax assessment purposes, but if you plan on paying taxes on those earnings anyway then you have nothing to worry about.
    How the hell do you know. Lmao. I had a 4000 night and a huge night the next and i travel so I deposited well over 4000 in one day....

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