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Thread: it's official - Oregon looking to drop Gas Tax in favor of 'Miles Driven' tax

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    Default it's official - Oregon looking to drop Gas Tax in favor of 'Miles Driven' tax

    from


    (snip)"PORTLAND, Ore. (AP) — Oregon is about to embark on a first-in-the-nation program that aims to charge car owners not for the fuel they use, but for the miles they drive.

    The program is meant to help the state raise more revenue to pay for road and bridge projects at a time when money generated from gasoline taxes are declining across the country, in part, because of greater fuel efficiency and the increasing popularity of fuel-efficient, hybrid and electric cars.

    Starting July 1, up to 5,000 volunteers in Oregon can sign up to drive with devices that collect data on how much they have driven and where. The volunteers will agree to pay 1.5 cents for each mile traveled on public roads within Oregon, instead of the tax now added when filling up at the pump.

    Some electric and hybrid car owners, however, say the new tax would be unfair to them and would discourage purchasing of green vehicles.

    "This program targets hybrid and electric vehicles, so it's discriminatory," said Patrick Connor, a Beaverton resident who has been driving an electric car since 2007.

    State officials say it is only fair for owners of green vehicles to be charged for maintaining roads, just as owners of gasoline-powered vehicles do.

    "We know in the future, our ability to pay for maintenance and repair... will be severely impacted if we continue to rely on the gas tax," said Shelley Snow with the Oregon Department of Transportation.

    Other states are also looking at pay-per-mile as an alternative to dwindling fuel tax revenues.(snip)


    Noteworthy is the 'oh, by the way' fact that the same recording device which allows the state to track miles driven also allows the state to track the car's location at any given time. The supposed purpose for this capability is to allow for different amounts of tax to be charged when different roads are used, as well as different amount of tax to be charged at different times of the day/week. But this capability could theoretically be used for other purposes as well.

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    Default Re: it's official - Oregon looking to drop Gas Tax in favor of 'Miles Driven' tax

    This should make most Oregonians happy as it means lower prices at the pump. Also, there is a $7500 tax credit that buyers of new electric vehicles or plug-in hybrids can take advantage of in the state of Oregon.

    And one last comment about the tracking devices: If you have a car that is GPS enabled, it is possible for police to get a warrant to track your vehicle anyway. Already, your lender has the ability to disable your vehicle through the GPS system if you miss a payment or two.

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    Default Re: it's official - Oregon looking to drop Gas Tax in favor of 'Miles Driven' tax

    ^^^ I have no problem with the current GPS scenario where a warrant is first required before GPS data can be collected. However, having continuously collected GPS data sitting on the ( hackable ) web server of a gov't contractor is a whole 'nuther story.

    Agreed that, between thousands of dollars in federal tax credits, as well as Oregon state tax credits, that electric / hybrid vehicle owners shouldn't be screamlng too loudly about having to pay a new 'miles driven' tax. However, they obviously are !!

    I am told that lots of states have been actively researching a 'miles driven' based road tax to replace gasoline / diesel based road tax ... primarily based on the fact that conventional vehicles are getting more miles per gallon, as well as the fact that electric / hybrid / CNG / biofuel vehicles are becoming an increasingly large percentage of registered vehicles. However, I feel much more comfortable with New York's approach ... which is based on vehicle mileage reported at the time of annual vehicle inspection as opposed to 'live' GPS data collection.

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    Default Re: it's official - Oregon looking to drop Gas Tax in favor of 'Miles Driven' tax

    Quote Originally Posted by Tourdefranzia View Post
    This should make most Oregonians happy as it means lower prices at the pump. Also, there is a $7500 tax credit that buyers of new electric vehicles or plug-in hybrids can take advantage of in the state of Oregon.

    And one last comment about the tracking devices: If you have a car that is GPS enabled, it is possible for police to get a warrant to track your vehicle anyway. Already, your lender has the ability to disable your vehicle through the GPS system if you miss a payment or two.
    The police can't get a warrant just for the fuck of it, that is a huge huge difference from being able to track you whenever they damn please.
    "Well done. Here are the test results: You are a horrible person. I'm serious, that's what it says: 'A horrible person.' We weren't even testing for that."

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    Default Re: it's official - Oregon looking to drop Gas Tax in favor of 'Miles Driven' tax

    ^^^ again, it remains to be seen whether the Oregon program will preserve the requirement of a warrant !!! Obviously, a warrant isn't required for the gov't subcontractor to collect and collate the GPS data needed to calculate the 'miles driven' tax. It then remains to be seen whether that continuously collected GPS data will become part of the 'public record' subject to FOIA, will be partially protected ( i.e. warrantless disclosure to LE and other 'authorized' parties ), or fully protected.

    Legally speaking, driving is a privilege not a right, and state roads are public property. Thus the case can easily be made that any Oregonian wishing to drive on state roads under the new 'miles driven' tax plan is voluntarily sacrificing any right to 'unreasonable search' regarding the location of their vehicle on said state roads. The US supreme court ruling on this topic bans warrantless GPS tracking of a vehicle without the knowledge or consent of the vehicle owner. But the Oregon program can obtain the consent of the vehicle owner as a ( future ) condition of registering the vehicle in the state of Oregon !
    Last edited by Melonie; 05-21-2015 at 12:19 PM.

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    Default Re: it's official - Oregon looking to drop Gas Tax in favor of 'Miles Driven' tax

    I know one of the committee members who is working on this legislation, and it isn't likely that warrant-less surveillance is going to be an issue. I'm willing to bet that the biggest objectors are those who operate short term car rental companies with electric vehicle fleets. Zip Car, Getaround, and Car2Go are popular services whose fleets are composed of mostly EVs or hybrids.

    I just sent a Facebook message to the aforementioned committee member to find out how this is being implemented. I asked him specifically: Is the data collected remotely? What happens to the data once the driver has paid his tax bill? Who would have access to driver tax payment data?

    It's a holiday weekend so I don't expect to hear back from him right away, but I'm curious about his answers. I'll post up any updates when I hear back from him.

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    Default Re: it's official - Oregon looking to drop Gas Tax in favor of 'Miles Driven' tax

    Seems like a big giveaway to the gas guzzler crowd. If i get 10mpg I am all for getting rid of the gas tax

    It would seem simpler to tax electric cars with a low annual highway tax.

    Much of the wear and tear on highways is done by large commercial trucks

    EVs are by nature small and light

    all this because of the ridiculous self defeating no raising taxes baloney.

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    Default Re: it's official - Oregon looking to drop Gas Tax in favor of 'Miles Driven' tax

    It would seem simpler to tax electric cars with a low annual highway tax.
    This is exactly what New York is working towards. No GPS tracking, with total miles being recorded once a year when the vehicle is inspected ( the inspection station reports the mileage difference since last inspection, as well as the results of the vehicle inspection, to state computers ) and the tax being collected as a price adder to the vehicle's annual registration fee. Proposed taxes will be based on the weight of the vehicle times the miles driven, with no regard to the type of fuel / energy used to propel it.

    However, the major stumbling block in New York's plan is that, in lieu of a ~50 cent per gallon road tax on fuel ( which, at an average of just 20 gallons per week, adds up to $500 a year ), the annual 'average' car registration fee with road tax added suddenly becomes $600, with total cost for some SUV's and pickups easily topping $1000 !!! The vehicle owners are already paying this tax, but are paying it in small increments every time they pull into a gas station. Having to cough up this big lump of cash once a year is viewed as being burdensome. But indeed for sub-compact cars ( electric or otherwise ) the annual road tax adder to the annual registration fee will probably be in the ~$300 ballpark.

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    Default Re: it's official - Oregon looking to drop Gas Tax in favor of 'Miles Driven' tax

    Quote Originally Posted by Tourdefranzia View Post
    This should make most Oregonians happy as it means lower prices at the pump. Also, there is a $7500 tax credit that buyers of new electric vehicles or plug-in hybrids can take advantage of in the state of Oregon.

    And one last comment about the tracking devices: If you have a car that is GPS enabled, it is possible for police to get a warrant to track your vehicle anyway. Already, your lender has the ability to disable your vehicle through the GPS system if you miss a payment or two.
    A few years ago a former employee of a lending company disabled all the cars on which the lender had made loans, much to the displeasure of the car owners.

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