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    Default This Is What Happens When A Millennial Tries To Get A Job

    in honor of the million+ new college graduates entering the work force this month ... from


    (snip)This Is What Happens When A Millennial Tries To Get A Job

    In “Global Youth Unemployment Hits 35 Million As Recent Grads Lean On Parents,” we documented what we have called the “pitiable plight” of recent college graduates whose degrees now cost in excess of $35,000 and who are entering a job market bereft of real opportunities for gainful employment. The OECD estimates that in member countries, as many as 35 million people aged 16-29 are out of work. In a related story, Sallie Mae (from which the nation’s number-one issuer of student loan-backed ABS was spun last year) recently reported that better than two-thirds of parents expect to provide financial support to their children post-graduation. With this in mind, consider the following data on youth unemployment in the US.

    From Generation Opportunity (a nonprofit):
    •The effective (U-6) unemployment rate for 18-29 year olds, which adjusts for labor force participation by including those who have given up looking for work, is 13.8 percent (NSA). The (U-3) unemployment rate for 18-29 year olds is 7.9 percent (NSA).
    •The declining labor force participation rate has created an additional 1.828 million young adults that are not counted as “unemployed” by the U.S. Department of Labor because they are not in the labor force, meaning that those young people have given up looking for work due to the lack of jobs.

    (snip)“College graduates will spend the upcoming month looking toward their futures – but as they celebrate, their ability to get a job remains top of mind. Young people have seen their economic situation improve in 2015. While we’re glad for that, April’s jobs report still shows a 13.8 percent youth unemployment rate, a discouragingly high number for those who are hoping to embark on their careers in the next few weeks,” the group’s Director of Policy Engagement at Generation Opportunity Luke Kenworthy says.

    “If you look at the numbers starting in 2009, we’ve been in the longest sustained period of unemployment since the Bureau of Labor Statistics began collecting their data following World War II. This misconception that we don’t want jobs or that we’re lazy and entitled is nonsense,” a spokesman added, in a statement to Newsweek.

    According to the OECD, one of the reasons recent graduates have so much trouble finding jobs is that their degrees aren’t preparing them for life in the workplace with 10% of new graduates displaying poor literacy skills and 14% exhibiting subpar numeracy skills.

    But it’s not just the skills gap. College degrees (even graduate degrees) have become so commonplace (thanks in part to the proliferation of student loans) that they are no longer sufficient in and of themselves to guarantee their holders will find good jobs. One 25-year old who lives in the nation’s capital told Newsweek that even with her master’s degree, she has found waitressing is the better option in today’s job market:

    Millennials face higher university tuitions and student loan debt than ever before, as well as stiffer competition when they enter the workforce. A 25-year-old who recently earned a master’s and is living with a friend in Washington, D.C., tells Newsweek she is waitressing while looking for a job better suited to her qualifications.“It’s hard,” she says. “They don’t want to pay you extra for your master’s. There are enough people with master’s degrees that they can require them.”

    Millennials have also discovered what we’ve been harping on for months: for most Americans, there simply is no wage growth.

    Millennials are getting lower earnings compared with the nation’s median income, versus people of that age a decade ago. “We find that because of the difficulties facing millennials, they are delaying these important life decisions, like getting married, buying a home, starting a family,” Pasch says.

    In a study by Carnevale’s center at Georgetown, the age at which young adults on average reach the median wage, across education levels, increased from 26 to 30 between 1980 and 2012. Those hardest hit were high school graduates and young men. Full-time employment for high school graduates declined 13 percentage points for the period, while the rate for university graduates declined by 8 points. As of 2012, young men earned only 58 percent of the mean wage, down from 85 percent in 1980.


    Circling back to the issue of whether millennials are getting what they paid for (or, more appropriately, what they almost certainly didn't pay for and never will) from US colleges and universities, it's looking increasingly likely that the push to educate America's youth (spearheaded by easy access to borrowed money) may end up backfiring, as prospective students assess the difficulty recent graduates have had in finding jobs that are commensurate with their experience and ask themselves if four years of their lives and $35,000 in debt is really worth it. Here's Newsweek again:

    Carnevale says graduates are feeling let down by their universities, even as the institutions jack up the cost of tuition. “I don’t know if you noticed,” he says, “but we have a debate raging in this country right now over whether universities are supposed to teach for enlightenment or to prepare students for the job market. You still see presidents at some very prestigious universities arguing for the former, not the latter.”

    Of course that could be because graduates from "very prestigious universities" are often i) deeply connected thanks to family pedigree and ii) heavily recruited, making it easier for them to find jobs and thus rendering the distinction between teaching "enlightenment" and teaching hard skills less meaningful.

    (snip)Here to sum up what it's like to be a millennial with a newly-minted $35,000 degree hunting for a job in America is another recent graduate from the DC area who told Newsweek the following:

    “You’re like, ‘I’ll do anything and apply for everything, but usually it’s an electronic filing and you’re spending all your time on it and never hear back. So far, I have applied for around 30 jobs, if not more, and have heard back on two of them. I didn’t get either job because I don’t have enough experience. These are entry-level jobs, but experienced people are taking them.”

    Good luck millennials and remember, there's always the farm.(snip)

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    Default Re: This Is What Happens When A Millennial Tries To Get A Job

    Story of my fucking life. Except add on a chronic illness which forced me to drop out of college twice and lose every full-time job I tried to work at. I've applied to about two thousand jobs on and off over the course of three years, and heard back from about a dozen of them. Oh, and thanks to working my ass off trying to do volunteering, internships and startups, I'm now considered overqualified for every entry-level job. Yet nobody wants to hire a young person (even for entry-level) without a college degree anymore. But it matters not, because I finally came to terms with the fact that I am too sick to ever truly work full time.

    I'm down to being a stripper or a gold digger. I chose stripper.

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    Default Re: This Is What Happens When A Millennial Tries To Get A Job

    It's the way it'll be now. The few jobs will be extremely picky. Too many graduates and too few jobs.

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    Default Re: This Is What Happens When A Millennial Tries To Get A Job

    Yep I make way more between dancing and running my home business than the majority of my peers with degrees, even Masters degrees. I'm going back to school this fall, but it's really just for fun. I gave up on "finding a good job" long ago. I hope I can work in my field when I graduate, but I'm aware that getting my degree may just turn out to be an expensive hobby. Entrepreneurship is the way to go. I think many students would be better off investing in their own businesses than a degree these days.

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    Default Re: This Is What Happens When A Millennial Tries To Get A Job

    What's funny to me is that I've been applying to teaching jobs to kill a year before grad school... because they pay the best. Teaching has been regarded as a low-paying job for a long time, and yet it's $32-$39k a year is the best pay I can net with a 4 year science degree. Being a chem lab tech or in the wildlife field, I'd make about $25k before taxes My friend did the same thing, got a degree in Psych and ended up teaching high school math.

    Kelly is right on the picky applications... though it's backwards in teaching land... there's tons of jobs, they cry about teacher shortages, yet the application process is ridiculous. It takes an hour and a half per app: essay questions, cover letters, "personality tests", your references have to fill out a 20 question form... plus I had to pay around $170 in state background checks + 'subject knowledge exams' and will have to take a $250 class before starting. It's absolutely ridiculous. I get that you're working with kids, but c'mon. I'd be willing to bet $20 that they're just testing how patient you are!
    "People jack off with the left hand and point with the right."

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    Default Re: This Is What Happens When A Millennial Tries To Get A Job

    plus I had to pay around $170 in state background checks + 'subject knowledge exams' and will have to take a $250 class before starting. It's absolutely ridiculous. I get that you're working with kids, but c'mon. I'd be willing to bet $20 that they're just testing how patient you are!
    That's certainly a part of it. However, the 'in depth' background checks are becoming routine as a result of 'employers' wanting to CYA upon advice of their attorneys.


    Backtracking a bit, it's probably worth pointing out the 'back story' behind my linked author's closing comment about 'there's always the farm". It turns out that one 'profession' which has far more job openings than applicants is ( corporate ) farming. Thus it's ironic that we've effectively gone full circle from people leaving farms in favor of industrial / gov't jobs in cities a century ago, to people now being 'forced' back to farming !!! Of course, if the 'cash crop' being grown is legalized pot, that might not be too bad of a gig !!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Selina M View Post
    What's funny to me is that I've been applying to teaching jobs to kill a year before grad school... because they pay the best. Teaching has been regarded as a low-paying job for a long time, and yet it's $32-$39k a year is the best pay I can net with a 4 year science degree. Being a chem lab tech or in the wildlife field, I'd make about $25k before taxes My friend did the same thing, got a degree in Psych and ended up teaching high school math.
    I've seen this exact scenario unfold here, too! Some of my friends have coveted STEM degrees only to wind up working in biotech factories. They don't use their education because it's really more manual labor than anything. Yet their degree was necessary to land a job where they drive a forklift around a warehouse full of science stuff! Another has an interesting job where she actually uses her skills, but the pay is so skimpy that she lives with her parents.

    It's all very disheartening. 90% of my classmates who are graduating this summer have no idea what they'll be doing in 6 months. Ugh.

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    Default Re: This Is What Happens When A Millennial Tries To Get A Job

    90% of my classmates who are graduating this summer have no idea what they'll be doing in 6 months
    It's a certainty that there's one thing those new graduates will be doing 6 months from now ... making monthly student loan payments !!!

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    Default Re: This Is What Happens When A Millennial Tries To Get A Job

    On a related note, I had a meeting with my boss this week & a topic that came up was the background check process that our company uses. (Far stricter than many companies.) My boss's statement was that the background checks make a "safer" workplace (I personally immediately assumed these background checks were to avoid theft issues more than safety liability issues.)

    My point being is however someone wants to word how selective an employer is going to be...the fact remains that there are more barriers to getting & keeping good employment than before. Before the Internet some people could change names and move a few states over for a fresh start. That's almost impossible now.

    My other thought is that "the new normal" is this generation living at an average median income that makes a lifestyle closer to what grandma & grandpa enjoyed. For most there is no "Living Large Lifestyle" unless you live with rich parents, or are willing to be up to the eyeballs in credit card debt.

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    Default Re: This Is What Happens When A Millennial Tries To Get A Job

    My other thought is that "the new normal" is this generation living at an average median income that makes a lifestyle closer to what grandma & grandpa enjoyed
    This is arguably the case exactly. However, the standard of living which grandma and grandpa achieved was made possible with just grandpa working. Today it requires both partners to be working !!! And grandpa also received decent retirement benefits as a 'free' employer benefit + received far more in social security retirement benefits than he paid in, where today's young people are required to pay far higher social security taxes ( with no guarantees regarding future benefit payments ) + must fund the majority of private retirement benefits themselves.

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    Default Re: This Is What Happens When A Millennial Tries To Get A Job

    Quote Originally Posted by Selina M View Post
    What's funny to me is that I've been applying to teaching jobs to kill a year before grad school... because they pay the best. Teaching has been regarded as a low-paying job for a long time, and yet it's $32-$39k a year is the best pay I can net with a 4 year science degree. Being a chem lab tech or in the wildlife field, I'd make about $25k before taxes My friend did the same thing, got a degree in Psych and ended up teaching high school math.

    Kelly is right on the picky applications... though it's backwards in teaching land... there's tons of jobs, they cry about teacher shortages, yet the application process is ridiculous. It takes an hour and a half per app: essay questions, cover letters, "personality tests", your references have to fill out a 20 question form... plus I had to pay around $170 in state background checks + 'subject knowledge exams' and will have to take a $250 class before starting. It's absolutely ridiculous. I get that you're working with kids, but c'mon. I'd be willing to bet $20 that they're just testing how patient you are!
    Strangely here there are many unemployed teachers so they are picky. I know long time teachers who became unemployed and are now working as aides or daycare. I looked into getting a certificate until the head of the department told me several grads are still unemployed.

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    Default Re: This Is What Happens When A Millennial Tries To Get A Job

    Strangely here there are many unemployed teachers so they are picky. I know long time teachers who became unemployed and are now working as aides or daycare.
    Actually, this isn't surprising at all ... if you look at the demographics. All of the 'baby boomer' generation's children are now in their 30's at least. Many of them have either chosen to focus on careers before families, or have been forced by economic realities to postpone having children of their own. And those 'baby boomer' generation's children who have decided to start families of their own have also chosen to limit the number of children such that their own lifestyle / standard of living won't be compromised too much by the additional 'expenses' of raising lots of children. Thus, in many areas, typically suburban and rural areas, there are now far fewer children to educate than was the case 30 years ago ... with an associated reduction in the number of required teachers ( and in some cases a reduction in the number of operating schools as well ).

    Teacher's union rules / seniority rights have assured that laid off public school teachers have priority if and when teaching positions do open up due to retirements etc. And beyond that, there is a large group of unemployed / underemployed former teachers with years of previous teaching experience available before a suburban public school district needs to consider hiring a recent graduate with zero experience. Also, where 'private' schools are involved, the school can and will be extremely 'picky' in regard to the credentials, background, and 'public image' of any new teachers.

    Of course, there are other areas where the number of children is still rising ... specifically the children of mostly urban single moms, the children of recent immigrants ( legal and otherwise ) to mostly urban areas, etc. whose birth rates are much higher than 'average' Americans, as well as immigrating children. However, the increasing demand for urban public school teachers may not be matched by a long list of willing applicants for those urban public school teaching jobs ... for somewhat obvious reasons ( i.e. urban public schools have metal detectors and armed security guards for a reason ).
    Last edited by Melonie; 05-29-2015 at 09:22 PM.

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    Default Re: This Is What Happens When A Millennial Tries To Get A Job

    I've got about a year to go until I get my degree, and the harsh realities of the job market make me terrified to graduate. I just had to do an assignment for one of my classes about what I want to do with my degree in marketing, and it required research on companies I'd like to work for and what I have to do on top of earning my degree to get there. It was an enlightening assignment, but disheartening at the same time, as I found an article that said marketing students have this romanticized idea of the industry, and in reality, cannot get hired fresh out of college and have to ideally also earn an MBA and pay their dues working as a salesperson, because universities teach theory rather than reality.

    I think what really rubbed me the wrong way was the narrow implied definition of what it means to be a "salesperson." I read it as "If you've never done telemarketing, door-to-door, B2B or sold on commission, your experience is invalid." I am absolutely a salesperson. I don't even necessarily mean as a camgirl (though we all know that's all about being an amazing salesperson!); I'm referring to my 10+ years of varied retail experience, which even though it's all been with the same company (and therefore illustrates a degree of loyalty few people exhibit at my age), it doesn't seem to count for much to anyone outside that company. At this point, all I can really do is hope that I can score an amazing internship or two, but I've also read that like those entry-level jobs, they're also being snapped up by people with experience, or "career interns."

    Now I'm all riled up! Doesn't help that it's almost finals week. I think I need to go look at cat videos on Youtube or something. lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kellydancer View Post
    Strangely here there are many unemployed teachers so they are picky. I know long time teachers who became unemployed and are now working as aides or daycare. I looked into getting a certificate until the head of the department told me several grads are still unemployed.
    I think this is very regional... Every district here has several openings I could qualify for (though I'm certifiable in 3 subjects, which helps). I've only submitted an app to 5 places, and with my zero classroom experience have still received an interview from 3 of them. I have about 20 more districts to apply to, so unless I change my mind at some point (as I am wont to do, every time I apply to vanilla jobs I say 'fuck this' and abandon it), I'm sure I'll get hired somewhere.

    From what I gather, we have more teachers leaving here than in a lot of states. I don't blame them and I have zero intention of doing this long-term. I'd be willing to bet I get hired in a Title I school, with all the "Dangerous Minds" kids, as they are the most desperate to fill positions... I actually wish I could tell these interviewers that I'm a stripper; if I can handle a drunken crowd on a Friday night, I think I can deal with your wannabe-thug teenagers.

    /teaching threadjack

    Re: the growing legalized pot comment... fiancé's friend had a gig working the (legal) fields in California... paying around $48k/year plus free weed. They lived in a tent and thus had no living expenses either. Not a bad gig at all!
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    Default Re: This Is What Happens When A Millennial Tries To Get A Job

    Job prospects for college graduates have been improving each year and are expected to continue improving.

    http://college.usatoday.com/2015/03/...015-graduates/

    With millions of baby-boomers retiring, prospects will most likely greatly improve over the next few years.

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    Default Re: This Is What Happens When A Millennial Tries To Get A Job

    The simple fact of the matter is that we send too many kids to college. I agree that a big reason for this is the proliferation of student aid, including loans. Not surprisingly, with all of that money at stake, there has been substantial growth in the number of colleges serving kids who, quite frankly, probably don't belong in college. We just don't do a good job of separating out kids by aptitude and directing them to their optimal career paths, no doubt because it is politically incorrect to do so.

    The reality is that kids who are C (or below) students throughout High School and score poorly on their SATs are not likely to go far academically. Yet instead of helping these kids acquire marketable skills, many of them are instead pushed to take out student loans to acquire liberal arts and other useless degrees at third-rate colleges all over the country. The results, predictably, are a proliferation of kids carrying enormous debt, yet no more qualified for a better job then when they graduated High School. At the same time, we are experiencing a chronic shortage of people in the skilled trades that traditionally pay well, including electricians, plumbers, machinists, masons and carpenters.

    In countries where college tuition is covered by the government, aptitude testing is done at Junior High and High School levels to determine which kids should be preparing for college vs. which kids should be steered towards other training avenues. This system makes sense and helps everyone, including the kids who would be better served by acquiring marketable skills at an early age. We have way too few technical High Schools and other technical training programs here in the U.S., no doubt because many parents re unwilling to face the reality that their kids are not going to cure cancer. So this mismatch between marketable skills and available jobs continues to perpetuate.

    Anyway, just my

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    Default Re: This Is What Happens When A Millennial Tries To Get A Job

    Unfortunately the U.S. continues to have the collective mindset of an insular nation when it comes to jobs; yet, the truth is, a significant number of jobs have gone abroad and will not come back. An employer can go to Estonia or Ecuador in 5 minutes and get a smart, educated person who will be grateful to work for $1000/month. India now (justifiably, IMHE) has a bad name but there are tons of freelancers all over the world. People may claim they're "hard to manage" but the thinking is a happy worker who has 60% of the skills is better in some roles than an unhappy person who is making twice as much. What Rick says about high-skilled "blue collar" jobs is true IME. Further, and this is why I like this site, some of the SBs on SW have verified this by exposing the secret "high dollar blue collar" SD market. I predict it will continue to get harder and harder to be an outsider who needs a job. Better get your small business going if you want to be non-standard.

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    Quote Originally Posted by alison_lyndsey View Post
    I've got about a year to go until I get my degree, and the harsh realities of the job market make me terrified to graduate. I just had to do an assignment for one of my classes about what I want to do with my degree in marketing, and it required research on companies I'd like to work for and what I have to do on top of earning my degree to get there. It was an enlightening assignment, but disheartening at the same time, as I found an article that said marketing students have this romanticized idea of the industry, and in reality, cannot get hired fresh out of college and have to ideally also earn an MBA and pay their dues working as a salesperson, because universities teach theory rather than reality.

    I think what really rubbed me the wrong way was the narrow implied definition of what it means to be a "salesperson." I read it as "If you've never done telemarketing, door-to-door, B2B or sold on commission, your experience is invalid." I am absolutely a salesperson. I don't even necessarily mean as a camgirl (though we all know that's all about being an amazing salesperson!); I'm referring to my 10+ years of varied retail experience, which even though it's all been with the same company (and therefore illustrates a degree of loyalty few people exhibit at my age), it doesn't seem to count for much to anyone outside that company. At this point, all I can really do is hope that I can score an amazing internship or two, but I've also read that like those entry-level jobs, they're also being snapped up by people with experience, or "career interns."

    Now I'm all riled up! Doesn't help that it's almost finals week. I think I need to go look at cat videos on Youtube or something. lol
    My ex boyfriend graduated with a marketing degree and could not land a job in his field for several months. I went with him on some interviews it was ridiculous. They wanted him to have all this sales experience when he had just graduated!! However he did end up getting a job as an accountant, which honestly suits his personality better than sales. You may just have to think outside the box a little bit when you start your job hunt. Sorry for the threadjack!

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    Default Re: This Is What Happens When A Millennial Tries To Get A Job

    Job prospects for college graduates have been improving each year and are expected to continue improving.



    With millions of baby-boomers retiring, prospects will most likely greatly improve over the next few years.
    This is expected to be the case for 2015 graduates at least. However, the assertion that things 'have been improving each year' isn't supported by actual employment statistics for the 'under 30' age groups.





    Your assertion that 'baby boomer' retirement demographics will force job market conditions to improve for new graduates is logical, but not necessarily the case. As can also be seen from the above chart, the one age demographic where jobs have been steadily added during the past few years is those 65 and older !!! This is counter-intuitive, but my business acquaintances tell me that the hiring of 'retirement age' workers makes very good sense for employers who are looking to minimize employee benefit costs ( i.e. employers don't have to contribute toward medicare insured employee health care costs ), employers who are looking to avoid the imputed costs of training a totally inexperienced new graduate employee, etc.

    Granted that 'baby boomer' retirement demographics must eventually force a change. And granted that employers are likely to hire more young workers with each coming year. But ongoing poor economic conditions are likely to also cause more 'retirement age' workers to continue working because, put bluntly, many simply can't afford to retire. And when that employer is ultimately forced to replace retiring 'baby boomers', there are now new considerations i.e. hiring H1-B visa 'immigrant' workers with supposedly equal education but far lower salary expectations, investing in 'white collar' automation, outsourcing of 'professional services' etc. as alternatives to 1 for 1 hiring of new US college graduates.
    Last edited by Melonie; 05-30-2015 at 08:51 AM.

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    Default Re: This Is What Happens When A Millennial Tries To Get A Job

    There's not that big of a difference between the 20 to 24 years old group and the above 30 years groups. It's probably even less for college graduates. College graduates obviously wouldn't be part of the 16 to 17 years and 18 to 19 years groups. Also, your chart goes to Aug. 2013. The unemployment rate has fallen significantly since then.

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    Default Re: This Is What Happens When A Millennial Tries To Get A Job

    ^^^ it's always difficult to try and find precise graphics with 'up to the minute' data. However, this was just published today - see

    (snip)Report: Things are good, college grads. But not that good.

    Though this year the sentiment has been that things are looking up for recent college graduates, there is still room for improvement, according to the Economic Policy Institute

    (snip)In a new report, “The Class of 2015,” researchers at the EPI found that members of this year’s graduating class have better job prospects than classes that graduated from 2009 to 2014.

    But according to the EPI:

    “The Class of 2015 still faces real economic challenges, as evidenced by elevated levels of unemployment and underemployment, and a large share of graduates who still remain “idled” by the economy. In addition, wages of young high school and college graduates have failed to reach their prerecession levels, and have in fact stagnated or declined for almost every group since 2000.”

    About 15 percent of current young college graduates are underemployed. Another 7 percent of current young college grads are completely unemployed.

    (snip)Looking at Massachusetts specifically, in 2014, 13.4 percent of workers under 25 years old were unemployed and 22 percent were underemployed, though the state had one of the country’s highest college enrollment rates at 47 percent.

    And those that do have jobs, aren’t getting paid very much.

    The EPI reported that wages for young college grads today are 2.5 percent lower than they were in 2000 before the recession, and women’s hourly wages in particular have dropped.(snip)


    As I conceded earlier, the jobs market is likely to be better for 2015 graduates than it has been in recent years. However, as the EPI study points out with latest statistics, from the standpoint of absolute measures, better than 'terrible' still comes out to be 'not very good'.

    I would also point out that every age group younger than 'retirement age' ( technically, age 60 or so ) still has lower overall employment levels ( as a percent of total population ) than before the 2007 'crash'. That metric is arguably far more realistic than 'official' U-3 unemployment statistics ... which ignores the growing number of Americans ( of all ages ) who are 'no longer in the work force'.

    And that metric also captures another de-facto option being exercised by a significant number of unemployed / underemployed recent college graduates ... taking out even larger student loans to upgrade their associate's degree to a bachelors, bachelors to a masters, masters to doctorate, etc. in lieu of remaining unemployed / underemployed. This arguably results in a slight improvement in current year U-3 unemployment / underemployment statistics ( because college students are not counted as being unemployed ), in exchange for a worsening of future year unemployment / underemployment statistics after their additional college studies are completed and they attempt to re-enter the work force.

    Also the very high college graduate unemployment / underemployment statistics for Massachusetts ( versus nationwide ) confirm a point already made by an earlier poster. Creating new college graduates does NOT correlate to the creation of new jobs - or the vacating of existing jobs by retiring 'baby boomers' either - which actually require college level education and skills to perform said jobs !!!

    Lastly, some of my business acquaintances now tell me that the positive 'sentiment' referred to in the above link ... which formed the underlying basis for expected improvements in the hiring of 2015 college graduates ... may now be less positive than previously thought. The reason, of course, was the recent official release of huge ( after the fact ) negative revisions to earlier official Q1 US economic growth estimates ... based on effects of the oil 'bust', based on falling profit margins for many large US corporations, based on falling orders and rising inventories, etc. This is arguably causing some potential employers to postpone planned new hirings until they can be more certain that the positive 'sentiment' actually has some economic reality behind it.
    Last edited by Melonie; 05-30-2015 at 01:43 PM.

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    Default Re: This Is What Happens When A Millennial Tries To Get A Job

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie View Post
    Actually, this isn't surprising at all ... if you look at the demographics. All of the 'baby boomer' generation's children are now in their 30's at least. Many of them have either chosen to focus on careers before families, or have been forced by economic realities to postpone having children of their own. And those 'baby boomer' generation's children who have decided to start families of their own have also chosen to limit the number of children such that their own lifestyle / standard of living won't be compromised too much by the additional 'expenses' of raising lots of children. Thus, in many areas, typically suburban and rural areas, there are now far fewer children to educate than was the case 30 years ago ... with an associated reduction in the number of required teachers ( and in some cases a reduction in the number of operating schools as well ).

    Teacher's union rules / seniority rights have assured that laid off public school teachers have priority if and when teaching positions do open up due to retirements etc. And beyond that, there is a large group of unemployed / underemployed former teachers with years of previous teaching experience available before a suburban public school district needs to consider hiring a recent graduate with zero experience. Also, where 'private' schools are involved, the school can and will be extremely 'picky' in regard to the credentials, background, and 'public image' of any new teachers.

    Of course, there are other areas where the number of children is still rising ... specifically the children of mostly urban single moms, the children of recent immigrants ( legal and otherwise ) to mostly urban areas, etc. whose birth rates are much higher than 'average' Americans, as well as immigrating children. However, the increasing demand for urban public school teachers may not be matched by a long list of willing applicants for those urban public school teaching jobs ... for somewhat obvious reasons ( i.e. urban public schools have metal detectors and armed security guards for a reason ).
    That's exactly what teachers I know told me. There are teaching jobs if one wants to teach in the ghetto where pay is low and crime is high. The districts with higher income students have many teachers. I called the local diocese and the woman told me the supply of teachers is so great that many teachers are working jobs that don't require degrees like janitorial.

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    Default Re: This Is What Happens When A Millennial Tries To Get A Job

    Quote Originally Posted by rickdugan View Post
    The simple fact of the matter is that we send too many kids to college. I agree that a big reason for this is the proliferation of student aid, including loans. Not surprisingly, with all of that money at stake, there has been substantial growth in the number of colleges serving kids who, quite frankly, probably don't belong in college. We just don't do a good job of separating out kids by aptitude and directing them to their optimal career paths, no doubt because it is politically incorrect to do so.

    The reality is that kids who are C (or below) students throughout High School and score poorly on their SATs are not likely to go far academically. Yet instead of helping these kids acquire marketable skills, many of them are instead pushed to take out student loans to acquire liberal arts and other useless degrees at third-rate colleges all over the country. The results, predictably, are a proliferation of kids carrying enormous debt, yet no more qualified for a better job then when they graduated High School. At the same time, we are experiencing a chronic shortage of people in the skilled trades that traditionally pay well, including electricians, plumbers, machinists, masons and carpenters.

    In countries where college tuition is covered by the government, aptitude testing is done at Junior High and High School levels to determine which kids should be preparing for college vs. which kids should be steered towards other training avenues. This system makes sense and helps everyone, including the kids who would be better served by acquiring marketable skills at an early age. We have way too few technical High Schools and other technical training programs here in the U.S., no doubt because many parents re unwilling to face the reality that their kids are not going to cure cancer. So this mismatch between marketable skills and available jobs continues to perpetuate.

    Anyway, just my
    All your points are insightful and for the most part I completely agree. The only thing I would argue with is the notion that aptitude testing at the junior high and high school level helps everyone universally. Like our meritocratic, college-for-everyone system, it definitely has major downfalls.

    As an example, in France, the children of poor immigrants can be unjustly "sentenced" to technical schools because of prejudiced guidance counselors. I had a very bright, efficient French-Algerian professor who fought tooth and nail to be able to attend university. She got in, graduated, and came here to teach. Her classes were always a joy and I don't mean that they were easy, as they weren't. She was just damn good at teaching, but I guess she came really close to not being allowed to get a higher education herself.

    On the other hand, I only have one classmate who has a job lined up after graduation. He's also French-Algerian, but from a wealthy family. They're very well-connected and a firm sponsored him and his brothers through high school in France and university here. It's great for him, but nepotism is an excellent path to success no matter where you are.

    Nonetheless, I think that our current system here would benefit from a revival of technical schools. It just needs to be balanced.

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    Default Re: This Is What Happens When A Millennial Tries To Get A Job

    Quote Originally Posted by kaninchen View Post
    All your points are insightful and for the most part I completely agree. The only thing I would argue with is the notion that aptitude testing at the junior high and high school level helps everyone universally. Like our meritocratic, college-for-everyone system, it definitely has major downfalls.

    As an example, in France, the children of poor immigrants can be unjustly "sentenced" to technical schools because of prejudiced guidance counselors. I had a very bright, efficient French-Algerian professor who fought tooth and nail to be able to attend university. She got in, graduated, and came here to teach. Her classes were always a joy and I don't mean that they were easy, as they weren't. She was just damn good at teaching, but I guess she came really close to not being allowed to get a higher education herself.

    On the other hand, I only have one classmate who has a job lined up after graduation. He's also French-Algerian, but from a wealthy family. They're very well-connected and a firm sponsored him and his brothers through high school in France and university here. It's great for him, but nepotism is an excellent path to success no matter where you are.

    Nonetheless, I think that our current system here would benefit from a revival of technical schools. It just needs to be balanced.
    There are a lot of good points there. Anything that involves subjective judgments made by other human beings is prone to the introduction of prejudices and biases.

    I will only add though that, in this day and age, our school kids do so much standardized testing that there has to be a way to burn some of the subjectivity out of the process. They also have GPAs derived from grades provided by multiple teachers. There would still likely be some judgment calls with kids on the bubble, and I'm sure that accusations of unfairness would not be uncommon, but IMHO a system like this would ensure that those kids who clearly aren't academically inclined receive more appropriate skills training.

    Most high schools already categorize these kids anyway, albeit less formally. Kids who are deemed to have more scholastic aptitude are placed together in more advanced "levels" while less gifted students are placed in more basic classes. Truth be told, by 9th grade, with ample standardized tests and years of academic track records, determining where to place most of these kids isn't really rocket science. What irks me, however, is the thought of wasting 4 years of time for the less gifted students when they could spend that time learning valuable skills.

    I had a buddy who, of his own accord, chose to go to a local technical high school. It was an enlightened choice on his part since he was not a very good student. When he graduated high school, he went to work in the service department of a Volvo dealership. By the time I graduated college, just beginning to earn a few bucks, he already owned his own house and was making close to $100k with overtime. When I ran into him a few years later, he was still making good money, was well along the road to paying off the mortgage on his house and even owned a damned plane (obviously a small one, but still).

    Of course, the biggest obstacle to this is that nobody is motivated to put this type of program into action. Local public schools receive funding on a per student basis, so they have no interest in sending their students elsewhere. Also, most parents are any of the following: (1) unable to let go of the dream that their poor performing students will eventually have academic awakenings; (2) too ambivalent to care enough or to push the issue; and/or (3) prone to lapping up the "every kid should go to college" crap being promoted in all too many high schools. So with all of that said, I don't see this changing anytime soon.

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    Default Re: This Is What Happens When A Millennial Tries To Get A Job

    Quote Originally Posted by rickdugan View Post
    The simple fact of the matter is that we send too many kids to college. I agree that a big reason for this is the proliferation of student aid, including loans. Not surprisingly, with all of that money at stake, there has been substantial growth in the number of colleges serving kids who, quite frankly, probably don't belong in college. We just don't do a good job of separating out kids by aptitude and directing them to their optimal career paths, no doubt because it is politically incorrect to do so.

    The reality is that kids who are C (or below) students throughout High School and score poorly on their SATs are not likely to go far academically. Yet instead of helping these kids acquire marketable skills, many of them are instead pushed to take out student loans to acquire liberal arts and other useless degrees at third-rate colleges all over the country. The results, predictably, are a proliferation of kids carrying enormous debt, yet no more qualified for a better job then when they graduated High School. At the same time, we are experiencing a chronic shortage of people in the skilled trades that traditionally pay well, including electricians, plumbers, machinists, masons and carpenters.

    In countries where college tuition is covered by the government, aptitude testing is done at Junior High and High School levels to determine which kids should be preparing for college vs. which kids should be steered towards other training avenues. This system makes sense and helps everyone, including the kids who would be better served by acquiring marketable skills at an early age. We have way too few technical High Schools and other technical training programs here in the U.S., no doubt because many parents re unwilling to face the reality that their kids are not going to cure cancer. So this mismatch between marketable skills and available jobs continues to perpetuate.

    Anyway, just my
    In general, I think people get out of college what they put into it. Students who take easy majors and easy classes just for the sake of getting a degree, probably won't get much out of college. Students who take the time to find what skills are in demand, take classes where they learn those skills, and put a lot of time and effort into their work and studies, will get a lot more out of college.

    I agree we should do more to encourage alternatives to colleges, such as trade schools and apprenticeships, where students can learn trades where there is a high demand.

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