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Thread: Is selling VIP worth it anymore

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    Default Is selling VIP worth it anymore

    The two clubs I'm looking at have the best reputations and most heads through the door in my area. They are both of the same chain, so their policies are identical:

    1/2 hour room cost to customer $250 (more if using credit card), $180 goes to dancer, which gets reported on a 1099, and another 30% goes to Uncle Sam, leaving a net of approx. $126 per half hour room to dancer.

    The other rooms have same outcome: set fee for customer. Dancer gets same percentage (about 50%) in the end.

    I wonder if this kind of payment structure flies with you ladies. To me it seems not really worth the trouble trying to sell these rooms in the first place. From the time it takes to close the sale to dealing with a customer who is looking to you to give them their $250 or more worth of entertainment for the half hour, I would feel like I'm not being justly compensated. Especially since I would also be paying fees to work in these places.
    Whether I get tipped on top of it depends on how generous/cheap the customer is, so that's a variable. I find most guys are on the tight side after they've shelled out the original fee.

    Is $126 worth it to be in a room/booth with a customer for a half hour? Or do you say screw it and focus on single dances instead?

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    God/dess shanna dior's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is selling VIP worth it anymore

    Well, technically you should be paying 30% on the income you make from dances as well, so to make this calculation accurate, you've got to factor that in.

    Let's say there are 8 songs in half an hour (about 3.5 mins each) at $20 a song (assuming that's your club's price), you've got $160, minus the 30% you should be paying in taxes and you're actually only taking home $112. So, looks like selling VIP is worth it to your bottom-line.

    Of course, it can indeed be a harder and longer sell to get someone to shell out $250 vs. $160, so you have to weigh if the extra $14 is worth it in each circumstance.

    The benefit of VIP is that you're guaranteed $126 for half and hour. When selling single dances, it's a toss up if your hustle will earn you a half hour of stacked dances or just one or two, in which case you're coming out behind because of the additional time needed to hustle a second or even third or fourth customer to sell $160 worth of dances.

    It all comes down to your hustle style, really. Some ladies thrive in investing time or effort to get the VIP, while others prefer to lap hop. Neither is a bad idea, it just depends on which you're stronger at and which is more lucrative in your club.

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    Featured Member wednesday86's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is selling VIP worth it anymore

    At my last club it was usually NO. Out of a $350 half hour we kept $130 (less if paid in funny money or credit card). For a $500 hour CR we kept $300. On top of that WE were expected to tip the bouncer especially if the customer didn't, AND most customers I'd say 85% expected extras. I only sold a handful of VIPs/CRs in my 8 months working there because I refused to lead customers on to think I'd give them extras and my cut was so measly I was better off pushing single dances.

    At my home club half hour VIPS were only $150 but we kept $125 and they could ONLY be paid in CASH. It was a no contact/very clean club (for the most part) so extras were not expected. Since single dances were $30 a pop, $150 was really not a bad deal for a 1/2 hour and I would push those back to back and made most of my $$ on them.

    So it really just depends on your club and your hustle style as shana pointed out. Always ask for generous tips in VIP and it could make up the difference

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    Default Re: Is selling VIP worth it anymore

    Thanks for the perspective. I got hung up on compartmentalizing the pay per half hour part of it, and feeling ripped off from that rather than looking at the big picture: end of shift total earnings, weekly earnings.

    I guess seeing the dancers' cut of rooms, etc. reduced over the years got to me, since I've been around the industry for a long time. Things aren't getting easier, but it's still a decent living that offers flexibility.

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    Default Re: Is selling VIP worth it anymore

    Quote Originally Posted by jekka View Post
    Thanks for the perspective. I got hung up on compartmentalizing the pay per half hour part of it, and feeling ripped off from that rather than looking at the big picture: end of shift total earnings, weekly earnings.

    I guess seeing the dancers' cut of rooms, etc. reduced over the years got to me, since I've been around the industry for a long time. Things aren't getting easier, but it's still a decent living that offers flexibility.
    That's true. There are not a lot of jobs that require no training/higher education where you can make $130-180 for half an hour's work! Most people I know don't even make that in a day much less in half an hour.

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    Default Re: Is selling VIP worth it anymore

    It definitely depends on your hustle and the club, and the customer too.
    If you're a low-contact dancer or they're likely a high-contact seeking asshole, selling blocks of time or rooms can be helpful, as they can't then bail out after 2 songs and finding out you're not 'dirty' enough. If they're a decent customer or the club isn't known for extras, your contact levels are the same, etc., it's probably more profitable to stack songs.

    I don't know how I feel about the mentality of "well you're still making $120 for a half hour!" I mean, it's a fair point that you are then guaranteed that money for that time... it does break down to be more like 45 minutes when you include initial hustle time/dealing with room buying procedure... I don't know. I guess it's a case-by-case basis.
    We have a customer that always tries to convince new girls to do $100/hour with him, and I have seen girls take it because it was super dead. I won't do it on principle that it's teaching him that our time is cheap, since I can make that in 20 minutes stacking dances. But that's just personal preference.
    "People jack off with the left hand and point with the right."

    "You can check out any time you like, but you can never leave."

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    Default Re: Is selling VIP worth it anymore

    Almost every club I've worked in has taken huge cuts from dance/VIP prices, and for me, the best money is in tips tips tips. Tips all the way. If customers tend to be stingy on tips after shelling out $250 for the half hour VIP, try just doing dances and hustling for larger tips there.

    How long are dances and what's your cut of those? Is it feasible to net the pre-tax ~$180 from dances instead of VIP within the same 30 minutes? If so you will probably be able to garner more tip money because the base cost is lower and spread out among multiple customers' wallets.

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    Default Re: Is selling VIP worth it anymore

    I think it also depends on if you have different VIP options. I've described the setup at my club in DC, where blocks of time started at smtg like $100/10min. I don't remember the exact numbers, I would have to dig them up, but the shortest/cheapest option was smtg like that. While the dancer kept any tips given on top of the room price, the club took half of all VIP blocks -- out of principle I disagreed pretty strongly w/ that, but I quickly settled into just pushing as many of the 10min blocks as I could. It's a small enough block of time for a small enough price that it was actually quite easy to continue selling to the same customer, & even tho it's only $50 or whatever for 10min, that shit adds up quick. Including hustle time from the first moment meeting the customer, I could achieve $250-$300/hr via this setup. As always, sweet talk extra tips out of them. If you have multiple VIP pricing/time options, a strategy along this vein may be worth a try.

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    Senior Member Holly_V's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is selling VIP worth it anymore

    I don't know what its like in america but surely you can take some creative license when filing your self employment earnings so you don't get 30% taken off all your earnings

    Also best advise I was given by a manager (who was actually really nice and not a dick) was don't look at how much you earn in an hour or in a night, you gotta look at the whole month. It's easy to get greedy but I found I was a lot happier with stuff looking at the bigger picture.

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    Default Re: Is selling VIP worth it anymore

    ^^^^ Average tax amts taken out, whether you're self-employed or not, are typically in the 30-35% range. Now, if your club leaves you to your own bookkeeping devices, & you're completely doing all of your own paperwork/filing, there may be room to fudge your numbers a bit ... but it sounds like OP works in a club where most if not all of her earnings are documented to the IRS by the club. I wouldn't want to play around w/ that.

    Agreed on that mgr's advice tho -- it's so easy to get frustrated by several bad nites, but in this kind of job, where income can fluctuate so strongly, we really need to keep that bigger picture in mind. I always used to document my earnings directly on my wall calendar in silver sharpie -- yes, those smaller numbers would annoy & discourage me, but at the end of the wk or at the end of the month when I did the 'full maths' I usually felt at least a little better.

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    Default Re: Is selling VIP worth it anymore

    Quote Originally Posted by kaninchen View Post
    Almost every club I've worked in has taken huge cuts from dance/VIP prices, and for me, the best money is in tips tips tips. Tips all the way. If customers tend to be stingy on tips after shelling out $250 for the half hour VIP, try just doing dances and hustling for larger tips there.

    How long are dances and what's your cut of those? Is it feasible to net the pre-tax ~$180 from dances instead of VIP within the same 30 minutes? If so you will probably be able to garner more tip money because the base cost is lower and spread out among multiple customers' wallets.
    They have floor dances $20 dancer keeps all. Those are good when there's enough volume s/a weekend night. They have booths $40/$10 to club and other club $30/$10 to club as well. Focusing on those may be better for me. They are in and out quick. I'm not stuck with them.

    I think if I bothered to sell VIP rooms I would have to explain to the customer that my cut is half because generally they expect too much for what I'm getting paid. Hate to ruin the mystique haha! But you're right I need to get more aggressive about pushing for tips.

    Yep all VIPs are reported by the club.

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    Default Re: Is selling VIP worth it anymore

    .........
    Last edited by LAQUEEFA; 08-07-2015 at 06:09 AM.

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    Default Re: Is selling VIP worth it anymore

    Purely from a numbers point of view, that doesn't sound bad at all to me. $70 from a $250/hh is definitely not the worst house cut I've seen. The remaining 30% taken from the $180 is what you'd be losing to taxes anyway if you're filing, which I really recommend doing if you ever want to have property/credit/accounts in your own name.

    Where it gets iffy is when it comes to personal hustle style, like everyone else has pointed out. Some of us prefer to or are better at selling VIP, some of us do better by sticking solely to dances. If your hustle style allows easy-ish VIP sales, then you might want to keep trying to sell them and supplement with dances. If you come out further ahead selling lots of individual dances, then stick to that. In the end, do what seems to get you (as) consistently (as possible) ahead.
    Exotic dancing is like any other job.
    If you work in an office, you wear dress shoes and a suit.
    If you work in a restaraunt, you wear skid resistant shoes and a uniform.
    If you work in a strip club, you wear 7" stilettos and lycra g-strings.

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    Default Re: Is selling VIP worth it anymore

    I try to assess the individual customers when it comes to VIP versus lap dances. If it seems like a very grabby/dirty customer who might try to screw around in the VIP, I'll insist on doing couch dances. If it's a rich guy who's likely to buy multiple dances, I'll try to do the VIP to keep him longer. I've pretty much stopped doing VIP dances with the exception of a couple regulars I know are well behaved, but I'm trying to work my way back up now that I'm better at putting grabby customers in their place.

    It also depends on how busy the club is on a particular night. If it's super busy and you can get lap dances every time you walk out, you might as well just do lap dances. If it's almost empty and there are maybe 3 guys out there, grab one and try to keep him in the VIP as long as possible.

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    Default Re: Is selling VIP worth it anymore

    TIPS make up for all of that. ASK for the number you want. Don't just hope his judgement will be best... You'll only get what you would like if you push for it.

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    Default Re: Is selling VIP worth it anymore

    I try to assess the individual customers when it comes to VIP versus lap dances. If it seems like a very grabby/dirty customer who might try to screw around in the VIP, I'll insist on doing couch dances. If it's a rich guy who's likely to buy multiple dances, I'll try to do the VIP to keep him longer. I've pretty much stopped doing VIP dances with the exception of a couple regulars I know are well behaved, but I'm trying to work my way back up now that I'm better at putting grabby customers in their place.

    It also depends on how busy the club is on a particular night. If it's super busy and you can get lap dances every time you walk out, you might as well just do lap dances. If it's almost empty and there are maybe 3 guys out there, grab one and try to keep him in the VIP as long as possible.
    ^^^ This is a 'perfect' summary of my own views toward the relative value of 'investing' time in selling VIP's and /or private dances.

    A. evaluate the particular potential VIP customer, and think twice if your intuition tells you he is going to expect heavy 'extras'. If you're not willing to provide those 'extras', the VIP customer is likely to become disappointed ... leading to a poor tip at the very least.

    B. evaluate your other options i.e. hustling private dances from multiple customers during the same time period. As you state, this depends on the number of customers versus dancers in your club on a given night. But it also depends on the 'nature' of those customers ( or, more accurately, their ability / willingness to spend money )

    C. consider the total time you must 'invest' in order to sell a VIP or private dance, and not just the 30 minutes you spend in VIP or the 3 minutes you spend in the private dance area. In other words, if you have 'invested' 30 minutes sitting with a customer prior to a 30 minute VIP sale, the money you receive as a result of that VIP sale really needs to be averaged over the entire hour you 'invested'. Same is true if you wind up spending 10 minutes with a customer to sell him two consecutive private dances ... the money earned from those private dances needs to be averaged out over 10+3+3=16 minutes you 'invested'.

    also, while it is psychologically very easy to do so, avoid getting 'hung up' on the concept of having to pay a 'cut' of total customer spending to the club. Whether this involves customer VIP money or customer private dance money or both, keep a clear focus on the fact that all that truly matters is the total amount of dollars you yourself get to 'keep'.
    Last edited by Melonie; 06-02-2015 at 12:37 AM.

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