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Thread: paypal's new TOS?

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    Veteran Member MissQuirk's Avatar
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    Default paypal's new TOS?

    Sorry to start another thread, I hate that.
    But did ppal's TOS change? i think it now says that adult entertainment things can use paypal as long as it's not involving a student account?
    https://www.paypal.com/us/webapps/mp...agreement-full

    Obviously there's still the issue of privacy+showing your real name...but I'm curious, am I understanding this right?
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    Veteran Member Tbean's Avatar
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    Default Re: paypal's new TOS?

    It certainly appears that way, however, part of the agreement at the very top says "The headings and subheadings below are for reference only and do not limit the scope of each section."

    They had to leave themselves some wiggle room


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    Banned Melonie's Avatar
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    Default Re: paypal's new TOS?

    ^^^ pure guesswork, but the FDIC / DOJ recently backed off on categorically enforcing their list of 'high risk' internet businesses ... with 'adult' businesses being included on that list along with online gun and ammo sellers, online gambling sites, etc. It appears that, with the specific exception of online gambling sites ( which are now specifically covered under new FR regulation GG ), PayPal has removed it's former categoric exclusions for 'adult' businesses and other types of 'high risk' internet businesses.

    However, PayPal's TOS still includes a number of provisions which would allow PayPal to potentially reject 'adult' businesses in a non-categoric manner ...

    (snip)9.1 Restricted Activities. In connection with your use of our website, your Account, the PayPal Services, or in the course of your interactions with PayPal, other Users, or third parties, you will not (snip)

    (snip)k. Conduct your business or use the PayPal Services in a manner that results in or may result in complaints, Disputes, Claims, Reversals, Chargebacks, fees, fines, penalties or other liability to PayPal, other Users, third parties or you;

    l. Have a credit score from a credit reporting agency that indicates a high level of risk associated with your use of the PayPal Services;(snip)

    (snip)r. Take any action that may cause us to lose any of the services from our Internet service providers, payment processors, or other suppliers;(snip)


    While the 'answers' will probably require real world feedback from 'adult' business operators who enter new PayPal applications, it's fairly probable the PayPal could interpret 'adult' businesses as representing a business which "may result in complaints, disputes, claims, reversals, chargebacks" etc. Additionally, PayPal's credit card payment processors may still exclude 'adult' businesses from their 'standard fee' processing services. And, under the new TOS, PayPal can now simply draw an arbitrary line in regard to minimum credit score of the ( adult ) business operator ( 700 ? 640 ? ), and arbitrarily reject account applications if the applicant's credit score falls below that arbitrary line.

    Thus Tbean is 100% correct that PayPal has left themselves a lot of 'wiggle room' ...
    Last edited by Melonie; 05-31-2015 at 12:49 AM.

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    Default Re: paypal's new TOS?

    As in even without epoch? And what on earth are they talking about credit score for?

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    Default Re: paypal's new TOS?

    Maybe that's why I'm suddenly getting spammed daily by PayPal saying my account is no longer "permanently limited". I have been just tossing them in the trash. This started about a week ago with 2 emails a day.

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    Default Re: paypal's new TOS?

    Paypal, bb?

    Yes, you motherfucker!

    How much for 2 minutes of anal fisting, bb?


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    Senior Member SweetNSouthern's Avatar
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    Default Re: paypal's new TOS?

    Quote Originally Posted by hyori View Post
    Paypal, bb?

    Yes, you motherfucker!

    How much for 2 minutes of anal fisting, bb?
    Haha...love this

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    Default Re: paypal's new TOS?

    I might would accept it for direct downloads or shipping items on ebanned, but only if they guy already had more than 50 possitive feedback or something. As far as cam shows though, naw I`m not going that route.
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    Default Re: paypal's new TOS?

    And what on earth are they talking about credit score for?

    I assume that this has to do with the change from 'categorical' high risk determinations to 'individual' high risk determinations. Under the old TOS and FDIC / DOJ policy, ALL adult businesses were 'categorically' declared to be high risk ... thus all adult businesses were outright rejected by PayPal. Under the new TOS and change in FDIC / DOJ policy, this has been replaced with an apparent policy which admits that some adult businesses may still represent high risk, but that other adult businesses may not.

    Checking the credit rating of the ( adult ) business operator is one common tool used by banks etc. to assess financial risk on an individual basis before approving a loan. PayPal will apparently do the same before approving an account. Keep in mind that, due to potential customer chargebacks, disputes etc. occurring up to a month after the original online credit card charge is processed, PayPal is essentially 'loaning' account holders the money they are being paid. Thus if PayPal pays out say $3000 to an account holder within say 7 days of the original customer credit card transactions, but winds up having $1000 worth of those customer credit card charges refused or disputed within the following couple of weeks, PayPal wants some reassurance that they will get 'paid back' by the account holder.
    Last edited by Melonie; 06-01-2015 at 10:47 AM.

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    Default Re: paypal's new TOS?

    Paypal just had to pay out MILLIONs in unfairly taking money & closing accounts. Change in Tos might have something to do with that.

    http://www.wsj.com/articles/paypal-t...ims-1432047598

    http://www.wsj.com/articles/paypal-t...ims-1432047598

    http://www.screw-paypal.com/paypal_lawsuits.html

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    Default Re: paypal's new TOS?

    Does anyone plan to use this for camshows? I'm very unsure,. It all seems way too vague.

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    Featured Member Tsani's Avatar
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    Default Re: paypal's new TOS?

    I won't be using it for cam shows until PayPal explicitly states that it's ok for me to do so without my account getting shut down.

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    Default Re: paypal's new TOS?

    Personally I'm not down to take ppal for cam shows still. I just thought it was worth posting.
    There are some adult sites that use paypal though. I feel like arousr but don't quote me on it...I think bbwcamhouse does.
    Anyway, so I'm less worried for their sake now,
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    Default Re: paypal's new TOS?

    I thought it might make a great Payoneer/Paxum alternative to payroll, considering some of the biggest e-marketing scams use them for their own affiliate payouts. Its not like models are going to go "Oh gee, I didn't want paid...send the money back!"

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    Default Re: paypal's new TOS?

    My concern with taking PayPal would still be how they always side with the buyer and refund buyers at the drop of a hat. So even if my account wouldn't get shut down, I could still get scammed

    But PayPal for camsite payroll? OMG HAPPY DANCE!

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    Default Re: paypal's new TOS?

    My concern with taking PayPal would still be how they always side with the buyer and refund buyers at the drop of a hat. So even if my account wouldn't get shut down, I could still get scammed
    In the grand scheme of things, this arguably comes down to an unavoidable trade-off. Businesses which have a 'high risk' of chargebacks typically get hit with higher percentage processing fees ( i.e. 'adult' business credit card merchant accounts ) to compensate the credit card companies for the extra time and effort required to deal with those credit card holder customer complaints and chargebacks. PayPal's processing fees indicate that they are operating as a 'normal risk' merchant ... which implies that complaints and chargebacks won't be disputed too hard. However, to maintain this status ( and the lower percentage processing fees ), PayPal's new TOS allows them to close the accounts of businesses whose rate of complaints and chargebacks rise above some unstated threshold ( see my earlier post - Restricted Activities point K ).

    Thus you PayPal account could still be shut down as the result of customer complaints and chargebacks stemming from 'direct' sales.

    However, the potential use of PayPal as a condult for webcam host payouts is a different story. In that situation, it is the webcam host's credit card merchant account which will 'take the heat' of customer complaints and chargebacks. As adult businesses, the webcam hosts are already operating as 'high risk' businesses, and are already paying higher percentage fees on customer credit card transactions involving their merchant account. So in a situation of a webcam host routing camgirl payments through PayPal, the rate of complaints and chargebacks falling on PayPal's merchant account should be zero.
    Last edited by Melonie; 06-02-2015 at 03:40 AM.

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    Default Re: paypal's new TOS?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tsani
    I won't be using it for cam shows until PayPal explicitly states that it's ok for me to do so without my account getting shut down.
    That's a smart idea, Tsani. After years of telling cam site members that we don't accept PayPal, if you're gonna change your tune now, you'd better be CERTAIN that it's allowed...and not just "testing it out to see." Fuck that. If it doesn't straight-up tell you it's allowed now, just stick to getting paid the way you've been getting paid.
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    Default Re: paypal's new TOS?

    After years of telling cam site members that we don't accept PayPal, if you're gonna change your tune now, you'd better be CERTAIN that it's allowed...and not just "testing it out to see." Fuck that. If it doesn't straight-up tell you it's allowed now, just stick to getting paid the way you've been getting paid.
    Again this really isn't a question of whether payment processing for adult businesses as a 'category' is allowed or not allowed by PayPal. Whether it's allowed or not now apparently depends on ...

    - the credit rating of the person / business attempting to open a new PayPal account

    - the number of credit card customer complaints and chargebacks which the new PayPal account holder creates for PayPal

    these are going to vary widely from one particular camgirl to the next.

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    Default Re: paypal's new TOS?

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie View Post
    Again this really isn't a question of whether payment processing for adult businesses as a 'category' is allowed or not allowed by PayPal. Whether it's allowed or not now apparently depends on ...

    - the credit rating of the person / business attempting to open a new PayPal account

    - the number of credit card customer complaints and chargebacks which the new PayPal account holder creates for PayPal

    these are going to vary widely from one particular camgirl to the next.
    I'm a skeptical mothafucka. If any cam girls want to put their trust in PayPal and try it, and then share their experiences on here, of course they are welcome to do so. I'm not even camming anymore. I'm just saying that if I was, I'd still avoid PayPal...especially if they've got this criteria in place as to which cam girl is allowed to use it, and which can't. Smh. My credit score is shit anyway. Lol.

    I, personally, would stick to using PayPal for online purchases (such as eBay), or as a payment method for non-adult "extra money" side gigs (many of them pay via PayPal...like the Field Agent app, for example).
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    Default Re: paypal's new TOS?

    We had a big discussion on this and we're definitely not going to be "early adopters" for this, as convenient as it could be. The risk of shenanigans is just too high to risk, "Sorry ladies, you're out of a paycheck for a few days until we switch you back to a bank account."

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    Default Re: paypal's new TOS?

    I feel like this is a major slap in the face. All these years of Paypal closing accounts, freezing accounts, keeping peoples money because the person may or may not have been selling LEGAL porn camshows, videos, pictures or an extension of porn(sex toys). Now years later they want to say its now ok for all the accounts holders that they closed to re-open accounts and conduct business that they were penalize for years ago. Just forget about us closing your account and taking your money that's water under the bridge.

    Anyways I won't be jumping on the bandwagon until they clearly state that the selling of porn is ok. Even then I will probably still wait to use it until I see or hear other camgirls using it.

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    Default Re: paypal's new TOS?

    has anyone actually contacted them and asked them straight?





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    Default Re: paypal's new TOS?

    If we could use the PayPal Shopping Cart that would be awesome
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    Default Re: paypal's new TOS?

    Quote Originally Posted by MessyChick View Post
    has anyone actually contacted them and asked them straight?
    Good question. If you do contact them to ask - and their answer happens to be no - I wonder if this would cause them to start keeping a closer eye on your PP earnings activity just to make sure you're not breaking their rules (since they now know that you've been considering using PP for adult stuff).
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    Default Re: paypal's new TOS?

    Just for asking they can kill your account, and your family, and burn down your house for good measure...someone else can do it

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