




Uh there are still towns where blacks aren't welcome. Travel to crossville, Tn for example you'll see what I mean. Plus I don't think race discrimination is the same thing. Like a person gets DNA from their parents (grandparents, etc) that determine their skin color. As far as I know there is no gay / homosexual genes. This type of discrimination reminds me of those old school caste systems - you're basically f*cked from birth and nothing you can do to change your DNA.
Now i do believe legalizing interracial marriage can be compared to the legalization of gay marriage.
But I do agree if the majority of people in an area all decide to actively discriminate against a group of people they can literally run them out the area - ending with some extreme social Darwinism type sh*t - like I wouldn't dare live in places like Mississippi or Arkansas or parts of Tennessee if I wanted to marry outside my race or gender and not expect an uphill battle.
This is just unreal....I'm speechless about this....http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/n...sign/29552615/
“Cook for him like a housewife, fuck him good like a nympho….pay the rent and the car note, he invests in me like crypto”




businesses do not have constitutional rights, no matter what Scalia says
a person running a business does not have the right to discriminate based on their faith.
there is no downside to this
everything you think is a downside is balanced by the 10000 things that are better than bigots deciding everything we can buy or sell




Just to ad
one of the reasons we have priests and ministers is so they do not have to run a business to support themselves. That way they do not have to muddle their philosophy.
The rest of us do.
One of the things I have been saying for years is that one of the most important things in business is dealing with people you do not like[like I have to convince this group of women of that]





A civil union with ALL the benefits is good, but officially calling it marriage is just PC.
I loved going to strip clubs; I actually made some friends there. Now things are different for the clubs and for me. As a result I am not as happy.
Customers are not entitled to grope, disrespect, or rob strippers. This is their job, not their hobby, and they all need income. Clubs are not just some erotic show for guys to view while drinking.
NOTE: anything I post here, outside of a direct quote, is my opinion only, which I am entitled to. Take it for what you estimate it is worth.





the way i understand it is, if you have a business that serves the public, you need to serve the entire public. businesses are not allowed to discriminate based on color, religion, gender, sexual orientation when they hire either, and it should be that way for providing services. you as a person can go ahead and make an ass out of yourself being a bigot, but refusing services in your business is totally different.
i know nobody in this thread has said this, but i just dont' understand all these religious types saying things like " i just don't support your lifestyle" like being gay is like being a drug addict or putting on a costume instead of something innate you are born with, part of who you are. you might as well say to your black friend " i love you as a person, but i just cannot support or condone you being black!" like what???
I still don't see how being black is the same as being gay. Its no comparison and not the same topic.
Race is determined by you dna from mom and dad. Most people know their sexual orientation from a young age but its not in your dna. You literally have 0 control over your race. And yes its fawked up to be discriminated against for sexual orientation but its more fawked up to be discriminated against for something you have no control over like race.
Also consider that people that change sexual orientation (decide they no longer are gay anymore - ie Anne Heche, Jackie Clune, Antoine Dodson, etc.)
Its impossible to change your race. If you're born black thats how you are till you die. No amount of faking, changing your mind, passing for white, skin bleaching will deny the truth - and want the truth? just get a dna test. Can you get a dna test to determine sexual orientation? A gay person can stay in the closet for years and even marry heterosexual and people will never know the truth.
I just cannot understand how a person can be "born" homosexual / heterosexual / etc.
If you want to add race to this discussion then I believe the only fair comparison would be interracial marriages (which became legal in the us in 1967). Yes even still today some families are just as much agains blacks marrying into their family / interracial marriages as they are gay / same sex marriages.
Civil rights and gay rights have some similarities (like fighting for equality) but are also very, very, very different.
“Cook for him like a housewife, fuck him good like a nympho….pay the rent and the car note, he invests in me like crypto”





well there has absolutely been evidence that being gay is in your genes and that sexual orientation is a trait you are born with. male sexual orientation genes have been identified. of course its easier to pretend to be straight than it is to pretend to be white, but my point was that being black is something you are born into just like being gay, its part of who you are and should not be treated like a costume or willful lifestyle choice




The difference between the bakery lawsuit and the contraception lawsuit is that the contraception lawsuit was based on federal laws and the bakery lawsuit was based on State law. Big difference there.
Yes, there is a lot of scientific evidence that homosexuality is genetic and it's not unique to humans. Most organisms that reproduce sexually have homosexual members.
As a Christian from childhood, I was raised to believe that homosexuality is a hell worthy sin. I heard it in church often. I also heard that Christians were to distinguish themselves from "worldly" people and not to associate with unrepentant sinners. I get where the bakery owners are coming from. This is what most Christians are taught for their entire lives.
A good friend of mine almost has a PhD in theology. During his final years in school, when I was questioning my Atheism, we challenged eachother to read the entire Bible, aided with a companion text that gave historical context and assistance with translation.
Nothing in the Bible prohibits the modern day practice of homosexuality. Sodom and Gommorah were not destroyed due to homosexuality and Sodomite did not refer to a homosexual person. After I puzzled this out, I called my friend to discuss this and we talked about it for nearly two weeks. We agreed. He left his doctorate program, because he didn't believe anyone would ever take him seriously if he accepted homosexuality.
Most Christians have never read the Bible all the way through and only know cherrypicked verses that are repeated out of context in church. Most of them are ignorant of what their Bible actually says and what those words really mean. There were Biblical verses used to justify racial bigotry too, but that practice has mostly faded away.
I pray that this does as well because Christ condemned very few people and hated none. He brought the outcasts closer to him than anyone else. I really don't think Christ is going to have a problem with same sex marriage. He will likely have a problem with the hatred expressed in His name... Jesus was a big fan of showing love, tolerance and acceptance and, as Christians, we're called to follow his example.
Christianity really needs to get it's head out of its ass, READ the Bible for comprehension and stop this backwater bullshit.
At the end of the day something changed. What effect that will have is yet to be seen. Insurance companies are definitely crapping pants, they have a LOT more spouses they will have to insure. Real bona-fide homophobes are hollering, folks are quitting their jobs, groups are trying to get states to secede (Yeah, right!). LGBTQ and Allies are celebrating. This is all new. We have to let the stew settle. For every idiot that quits their job rather than issue a marriage license there will be someone unemployed that will be happy to. For every nincompoop Congressmen or Governor complaining, there is the CONSTITUTION. Whatever they say, it is the law of the land. For every idiot prancing about yelling to disband the Supreme Court of the United States, there's that pesky Constitution. You'd have to rewrite the damed thing if you did that, so how can they love it if they want to rewrite it?
Sour apples is sour, especially when they don't go your way. But that is the nature of Democracy. We had to deal with dropping bombs on faceless brown people in Iraq, those twerps can deal with the law finally standing up for something good. #lovewins. I can only imagine a few better things to fight for than love, for all.
Sarchasm (n): The gulf between the author of sarcastic wit and the person who doesn't get it
You parents didn't determine your sexuality when you were born. Can you DNa test for sexual orientation like you can for gender or race??? No you cannot. You can't get pregnant by a gay man / use gay mans sperm and make a half gay baby can you???
And explain Anne Heche being lesbian then marrying a dude??? And explain Antoine Dodson - flamboyant gay man who later marries a woman, has a baby, a says he's no longer gay?!?
“Cook for him like a housewife, fuck him good like a nympho….pay the rent and the car note, he invests in me like crypto”
I don't see what this has to do with anything.
Gay/straight is not a binary option, they are two ends of a spectrum with many stops in between. That does not mean you have a choice of what gender or genders you find attractive.And explain Anne Heche being lesbian then marrying a dude??? And explain Antoine Dodson - flamboyant gay man who later marries a woman, has a baby, a says he's no longer gay?!?
"Well done. Here are the test results: You are a horrible person. I'm serious, that's what it says: 'A horrible person.' We weren't even testing for that."
Why would someone insist they want a cake by a person who is uncomfortable doing so because their religion tells them it's wrong? How many other bakeries out are out there who are willing to do it, no problem? A ton. So why do these people insist and bully and DEMAND it, causing such a stir and drama? Congratulations, you've just become a disgusting bigot and bully yourself! The victim industry in full force, we will see a lot more cases and a lot more $$$$$$$ rewarded.
Of course, none of them would ever dream of going into a Muslim bakery and demanding a gay wedding cake or a Mohammad cake. Nobody is going to go into a Jewish bakery and demand a cake for celebrating Hitler's birthday. Because, you know, that would be wrong.




Well, there are two parts to this. Portland is an extremely tolerant area and actually legalized same sex marriage in 2004, for a short time. This couple could have easily found another bakery who'd be thrilled to have their business. And, I'm sure they did. This particular case I kind of feel is a money grab and bullying by someone who happened to fall under legal protection. They knew they could cry discrimination and punish someone, because they didn't get their way. A friend of mine who lives in the area mentioned something about the couple wanting more money for the "public embarrassment. " Also note that this is a small, family owned business. I don't think we're going to see Walmart sued for not stocking "Mr and Mr" wedding favors.
Now in a smaller, less tolerant area, options are much more limited. When I got married in small town Michigan, there was one bakery that did wedding cakes and one bridal shop. There were three seamstresses that did bridal alterations. What if a same sex couple was refused service in that kind of environment? That's where this kind of legislation really matters, because same sex couples have a legal right to marry and can't be denied service based on their sexual orientation. In some areas, it would cause a severe hardship or make it completely impossible to obtain services.
Celebrating Hitler's birthday isn't a religious observance and doesn't fall under any kind of legal protection. There is no protected reason to want a Mohammed cake and, should a Muslim owned business refuse service to a same sex couple, the situation would be exactly the same as the one we're discussing. But, and this is a big one... I can see this being taken way too far and openly religious businesses being purposely targeted. There's been rumblings about it, but it doesn't go much beyond conspiracy theory at this point. I sincerely hope it doesn't come to that and, if it does, protections are put in place, because business owners are people too and nobody deserves to be harassed or targeted due to their belief system, however backward and illogical someone may think it is.
Yeah, maybe where YOU live. Try being gay in a rural southern town if we allow them to discriminate and see how that works out for you. The moment we allow one of those bigots to not serve someone because they are gay there will be entire swaths of the country where they won't serve gays ANYWHERE.
"Well done. Here are the test results: You are a horrible person. I'm serious, that's what it says: 'A horrible person.' We weren't even testing for that."




Homosexuality is likely genetic. Really, it is:
http://www.natureworldnews.com/artic...t-evidence.htm
http://www.washingtonpost.com/postev...y-or-straight/
I based a science project on this one: http://www.who.int/genomics/gender/en/index2.html
http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/1597148




I was just going to add that sexual orientation definitely is not a choice. Our genes go farther than just determining our appearances. Thousands and thousands of genes make up who we are so it should not be that surprising that sexual orientation is included in that. I could decide to date a woman one day but I would always feel uncomfortable with it and it would be unnatural for me. I am straight and I don't really have a choice in that.




It should be added that race is also an artificial construct. Redheads aren't a race, Swedes aren't a race. White is as much a genetic defect[lack of pigmentation] as it is anything.
Thanks for sharing your findings kirakonstantin.
Regardless of what I think about that, and what the cause is, I want to keep on topic and still glad same sex marriage is legal here is US. Long term couples (even same sex couples) should be able to make their relationship official and have legal marital rights. I've read stories about lawsuits where one person died and the living partner could not receive any benefits. That's horrid!
I wonder will other countries legalize it too?
“Cook for him like a housewife, fuck him good like a nympho….pay the rent and the car note, he invests in me like crypto”




Goodness, there is a lot of great discussion going on here!!
I feel that it's extremely important that research is going into genetic factors and determining that sexual orientation is based on concrete DNA. Choices can be criminalized, as can behavior and much of the anti gay legislation has been passed under the flawed assumption that homosexuality is 100% choice and an expression of aberrant behavior. The fact that this is proving to be genetically determined puts laws against homosexuality on par with making brown eyes or red hair a criminal offense. It turns it into something completely ridiculous and much easier to strike down as unconstitutional. I have a feeling that, without the research that's been presented, the legalization of same sex marriage never would have been passed.
Sexuality is a spectrum, ranging between 100% heterosexual and 100% homosexual. Most people fall somewhere in between. The matter of choice comes in most obviously with people who are bisexual. I've known a lot of people who handled their bisexuality in a lot of different ways and, most of the time, it was a personal choice, based on their personal situation and feelings. Personally, I fall closer to a sexuality and I handle that in my own personal way.
Where choice does not and never will come into play is where a person falls on that spectrum. A bisexual woman who chooses to express that by entering into a heterosexual marriage and listing after hot women or having threesomes is no less bisexual because of that solution.
Oldster: I agree with you that race really is a social construct. Skin color has naturally evolved, based on environmental factors, for thousands and thousands of years. The lack or over production of melanin was a direct evolutionary response to sin exposure and whether a person needed more for protection from radiation or less, because an overabundance of melanin blocks the production of vitamin D in the human body. It's far from being a defect, but more of an expected evolutionary response to environmental conditions that's regularly expressed in every organism.




^ I definitely agree with that. I'm just stating that I am 100% heterosexual and nothing will change that. Same goes for everyone else in my opinion no matter where they fall on that spectrum. I could choose to be with a woman but that won't change my sexual orientation. But anyway yeah this is off topic haha I am also very happy gay marriage is legalized. People who argue against it just seem to be giving the same argument people did when it came to interracial marriages. It's kind of baffling that they don't realize that lol. It really irritates me when people go the slippery slope route about gay marriage leading to all these ridiculous assumptions like marrying your dog and what-not.
As a bisexual, if I wanted to get married in a rural Southern town where absolutely no bakery would do my cake (I've been everywhere in the South and don't get this anti Southern bigotry at all, they are the most welcoming and sweet people but that's just my opinion) I'd bake my own cake or have a family member or friend do it. But I certainly wouldn't bully someone into doing it if they don't want to. That's wrong.
I would suggest to the bakers who won't do gay wedding cakes because of their religion to put up a sign that says that all the proceeds they get from the cake they will donate to an anti gay marriage organization. See if the gay couples still want to do business there.
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