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Thread: Gay Marriage

  1. #76
    God/dess Trem's Avatar
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    Default Re: Gay Marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by HoolaTwister View Post
    As a bisexual, if I wanted to get married in a rural Southern town where absolutely no bakery would do my cake (I've been everywhere in the South and don't get this anti Southern bigotry at all, they are the most welcoming and sweet people but that's just my opinion) I'd bake my own cake or have a family member or friend do it. But I certainly wouldn't bully someone into doing it if they don't want to. That's wrong.
    You keep oversimplifying things to make it sound like people are over reacting. Once again so you understand: If we allow bigots to discriminate against gays there will be large areas of the country where gays cannot live AT ALL. It's not just about fucking wedding cakes. If cake sellers can discriminate against gays so can every single other business.
    "Well done. Here are the test results: You are a horrible person. I'm serious, that's what it says: 'A horrible person.' We weren't even testing for that."

  2. #77
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    Default Re: Gay Marriage

    ^ i dont understand your vitriol at gay couples who want to be treated fairly by a business that serves the public and whose business is to make cakes for people..its not like they are insisting on local bystanders baking them a cake and coming to their wedding. its not bullying, its expecting a business to serve them and be professional regardless of race, gender, sexual orientation, or religion. its standing up to bullies.

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    Veteran Member HoolaTwister's Avatar
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    Default Re: Gay Marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by simone87 View Post
    ^ i dont understand your vitriol at gay couples who want to be treated fairly by a business that serves the public and whose business is to make cakes for people..its not like they are insisting on local bystanders baking them a cake and coming to their wedding. its not bullying, its expecting a business to serve them and be professional regardless of race, gender, sexual orientation, or religion. its standing up to bullies.
    I'm bisexual. I have no vitriol towards myself I do have vitriol for people who demand and bully someone just to make a point. As I have said in previous posts, organized religion is not for me. I think I've called it a brainwashing cult on here actually, so I don't come to it from there. I do respect other people are religious and their religion tells them that gay marriage is wrong. Why would I want to disrespect them? We live in a free country. I can go to another bake shop.

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    Veteran Member HoolaTwister's Avatar
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    Default Re: Gay Marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Trem View Post
    You keep oversimplifying things to make it sound like people are over reacting. Once again so you understand: If we allow bigots to discriminate against gays there will be large areas of the country where gays cannot live AT ALL. It's not just about fucking wedding cakes. If cake sellers can discriminate against gays so can every single other business.
    Gays have been loving all over the country for as long as this country has existed. If a baker refuses to bake that cake, it's not automatically going to turn into a place where gays can be refused everywhere. That's silly and you know it. The baker had no problems selling them a cupcake, a cake, a cookie or whatever. They had a problem selling A WEDDING CAKE. For a GAY WEDDING. Which is against their religion.

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    Default Re: Gay Marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by miss.a.p1600 View Post
    You literally have 0 control over your race.
    This woman thinks that you do.
    http://www.businessinsider.com/the-n...s-black-2015-6

  6. #81
    Veteran Member HoolaTwister's Avatar
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    Default Re: Gay Marriage

    ^^living* not loving but we've been doing that as well! Haha

  7. #82
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    Default Re: Gay Marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by HoolaTwister View Post
    Gays have been loving all over the country for as long as this country has existed. If a baker refuses to bake that cake, it's not automatically going to turn into a place where gays can be refused everywhere. That's silly and you know it. The baker had no problems selling them a cupcake, a cake, a cookie or whatever. They had a problem selling A WEDDING CAKE. For a GAY WEDDING. Which is against their religion.
    No it isn't. There are no laws in the Bible stating who you can and can't bake a cake for.

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    Default Re: Gay Marriage

    well that's the thing, your religious beliefs can't trump the law or anti discrimination laws..you cannot ( or should not, its unfortunate that you can in some places) deny device to somebody based in something as innate as sexual orientation, or race, or gender, or etc etc. you can't even deny somebody service for their religion which IS a choice . and trem is correct that a lot of times things as simple as one place getting away with discriminating can cause a huge chain reaction and set a precedent.

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  10. #84
    Veteran Member HoolaTwister's Avatar
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    Default Re: Gay Marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by eagle2 View Post
    No it isn't. There are no laws in the Bible stating who you can and can't bake a cake for.
    Weather it's Christianity, Judaism, or Islam- those religions are against same sex marriage. Baking a cake would be against that person's religious beliefs. It's participating in something that's against your religion. That's wrong. Hasn't the gay community preached tolerance for how long now? How about tolerance for a person's personal and religious beliefs?

    You really think it's fine and good that this couple destroyed a little family business because they couldn't force them to do something they weren't willing to do? How sickening.

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    Default Re: Gay Marriage

    and yes gays have been living in this country since it was built, of course, but they have also been widely discriminated against and forced to assimilate just like other minority groups and that's something that should stop now that we're in the 21st century.

  12. #86
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    Default Re: Gay Marriage

    It's not against the Christian religion to bake a cake. The only reason the bakery refused is because they are bigots. The same bakery was willing to bake cakes for a divorce celebration, a pagan solstice, and to celebrate stem-cell research.

    http://www.advocate.com/latest-news/...t-gay-weddings

  13. #87
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    Default Re: Gay Marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by simone87 View Post
    well that's the thing, your religious beliefs can't trump the law or anti discrimination laws..you cannot ( or should not, its unfortunate that you can in some places) deny device to somebody based in something as innate as sexual orientation, or race, or gender, or etc etc. you can't even deny somebody service for their religion which IS a choice . and trem is correct that a lot of times things as simple as one place getting away with discriminating can cause a huge chain reaction and set a precedent.
    I give up. People who think it's fine for the government to force people to do something which is against their religious beliefs, people who can't tolerate another's convictions, bullies who want to get their way, even if it means destroying a business and a person's livelihood, who are so brazen in doing so because now they've got the government behind them...I just don't get it. I cannnnot wait until a Muslim or Jewish bakery is targeted. But of course they won't.

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    Default Re: Gay Marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by HoolaTwister View Post
    I give up. People who think it's fine for the government to force people to do something which is against their religious beliefs, people who can't tolerate another's convictions, bullies who want to get their way, even if it means destroying a business and a person's livelihood, who are so brazen in doing so because now they've got the government behind them...I just don't get it. I cannnnot wait until a Muslim or Jewish bakery is targeted. But of course they won't.
    I get where you're coming from. I sincerely do. There needs to be a balance between everybody's rights and I'm not sure that was the case here either. Perhaps a clause in anti discrimination lawsuits should provide for whether the discriminated party was subject to unreasonable hardship. Or maybe there's another solution that allows people to coexist without one party holding the other hostage.

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    Default Re: Gay Marriage

    if its the bakery i think you are referring to, it was a pretty hefty fine that might be a bit much, but they did break the law in their state, knowingly. they run a business, so they need to separate out their personal life from that. and i have to disagree with the whole "bullying" thing, its christians who have been bullying gays for centuries, not the other way around. and refusing services would just be another one in a long list of things they've gotten away with forever in this society. i just have a hard time feeling sorry for them i guess?

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    Default Re: Gay Marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by simone87 View Post
    if its the bakery i think you are referring to, it was a pretty hefty fine that might be a bit much, but they did break the law in their state, knowingly. they run a business, so they need to separate out their personal life from that. and i have to disagree with the whole "bullying" thing, its christians who have been bullying gays for centuries, not the other way around. and refusing services would just be another one in a long list of things they've gotten away with forever in this society. i just have a hard time feeling sorry for them i guess?
    I know of a housekeeper who fired a lesbian client and almost got hit with a discrimination lawsuit. The reality is that this woman had several gay clients on her roster and fired straight clients for the same shitty behavior. It happens and it's equally wrong.

    Just because some Christians have been awful to people does not make it right to turn around and be awful to them. An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind.

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  20. #91
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    Default Re: Gay Marriage

    There is a balance: you are allowed to have any religious belief you want as long as those beliefs don't harm anyone else. Tolerating anything beyond that on the excuse of religious belief is simply evil and wrong. Preventing someone from doing evil in the name of their religion is not "being awful" to them.
    "Well done. Here are the test results: You are a horrible person. I'm serious, that's what it says: 'A horrible person.' We weren't even testing for that."

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    Default Re: Gay Marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Trem View Post
    There is a balance: you are allowed to have any religious belief you want as long as those beliefs don't harm anyone else. Tolerating anything beyond that on the excuse of religious belief is simply evil and wrong. Preventing someone from doing evil in the name of their religion is not "being awful" to them.
    That is an EXTREMELY dangerous prescident to set... What "harms" a person is extremely subjective and can set the conditions for a great deal more bigotry.

    Was this couple harmed in any lasting way, beyond hurt feelings? Did this bakery prevent them from having a wedding cake? Did they prevent this couple from getting married? Was there an assault? Did the bakery publish their names with defamatory statements about them? The answer to all of that is no.

    Now, if this was BFE and their refusal of service prevented them from having any wedding cake, I can completely see the harm being done. But, in a city where there are gay bakeries, all they had to do was choose another bakery out of the hundred in business in the Portland metro area.

    Religious people have rights too and this wholesale attitude that Christians are getting what's coming to.them is just as bigoted as the way some Christians treat homosexuals.

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  24. #93
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    Default Re: Gay Marriage

    ^^ Exactly!!

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    Default Re: Gay Marriage

    Honestly I can see both sides on the cake issue. On one hand if someone doesn't agree with it and it goes against their beliefs how far can this go? Let's say a customer comes to me asking me to design a website for dog fighting or a hate group should I be required to take the job? On the other hand it does remind me of what happened where blacks were denied service.

    This reminds me of a recent interview with a religious organization. They only hired devout Catholics as they were part of the Diocese. I agreed with this but a friend was rejected because of it. However I believe religious organizations might be allowed to hire on this but not on things like race.

    Speaking of the bible, I read it and what we now consider traditional marriage wasn't always so. There was Abraham who had sex with Sarah's maid Hagar to get her pregnant. There was his grandson Jacob who was married to Rachel and Leah and also got their maids pregnant (who were half sisters). Then there was Lot (Abraham's nephew)who got his daughters pregnant. My point is there were many stories that we don't approve of now. If I recall, the only mention of homosexual behavior was two men who had sex with each other and it had to do with Lot. Actually homosexuality was common in early times, especially Greeks who often had male lovers.

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    Default Re: Gay Marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by kirakonstantin View Post
    That is an EXTREMELY dangerous prescident to set... What "harms" a person is extremely subjective and can set the conditions for a great deal more bigotry.

    Was this couple harmed in any lasting way, beyond hurt feelings? Did this bakery prevent them from having a wedding cake? Did they prevent this couple from getting married? Was there an assault? Did the bakery publish their names with defamatory statements about them? The answer to all of that is no.

    Now, if this was BFE and their refusal of service prevented them from having any wedding cake, I can completely see the harm being done. But, in a city where there are gay bakeries, all they had to do was choose another bakery out of the hundred in business in the Portland metro area.

    Religious people have rights too and this wholesale attitude that Christians are getting what's coming to.them is just as bigoted as the way some Christians treat homosexuals.
    Setting the precedent that you are allowed to discriminate against people based on their sexual orientation is EXTREMELY harmful and it goes far far beyond being able to get a wedding cake. Why people keep making this about a wedding cake like it would somehow stop there is ridiculous. There are no special wedding cake rules, if they are allowed to discriminate EVERYONE is. Quit focusing on the stupid cake.
    "Well done. Here are the test results: You are a horrible person. I'm serious, that's what it says: 'A horrible person.' We weren't even testing for that."

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    Default Re: Gay Marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Trem View Post
    Setting the precedent that you are allowed to discriminate against people based on their sexual orientation is EXTREMELY harmful and it goes far far beyond being able to get a wedding cake. Why people keep making this about a wedding cake like it would somehow stop there is ridiculous. There are no special wedding cake rules, if they are allowed to discriminate EVERYONE is. Quit focusing on the stupid cake.
    This is an issue of two protected classes butting heads. We're trading bigotry for sexual orientation for bigotry for religion and that's not ok either.

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    Default Re: Gay Marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by kirakonstantin View Post
    This is an issue of two protected classes butting heads. We're trading bigotry for sexual orientation for bigotry for religion and that's not on either.
    It is not bigotry to prevent people from doing evil in the name of religion.
    "Well done. Here are the test results: You are a horrible person. I'm serious, that's what it says: 'A horrible person.' We weren't even testing for that."

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    Default Re: Gay Marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Trem View Post
    It is not bigotry to prevent people from doing evil in the name of religion.
    I think it's pretty evil for a customer to shut down a business and take away someone's livelyhood, because they didn't get their way. If it'd been a gay owned bakery who turned away a Christian couple, it'd be a LOT different.

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    Default Re: Gay Marriage

    Often, the same people who would refuse to bake a cake for a gay wedding are the same people who would try to shut strip clubs down or make it more difficult for women to have access to contraception.

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    Default Re: Gay Marriage

    Also, let's not forget about all of those Christians who voted to prohibit gay marriage in their states and also to pass laws forbidding gays to adopt children.

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