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Thread: How is Stripping Empowering vs Demeaning

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    Default How is Stripping Empowering vs Demeaning

    Alrighty folks, so I've told many of my close friends and family about my work and most of them have been overwhelmingly supportive. However, a very close friend of mine feels very convinced that stripping is strictly a line of work where women are being demeaned (his reasoning is non-religious). I expressed how stripping makes me feel empowered but I don't think he really understood (and it didn't help that I was having a hard time explaining why it made me feel powerful and expressive).

    At times I know we deal with men who try to demean strippers and it may also be true that strip clubs attract men that get off on feeling they have power over women. However, most of us know full well that most strippers refuse to indulge this kind of patron. I don't think the general public understands this. I really hate how some people, including someone I care deeply for, thinks that what I do is degrading to myself when I have a lot of pride in my own strength and would never allow someone to treat me that way.

    So here's what I wanted to discuss: How does stripping make you feel empowered or even how does it make you feel demeaned? And on that note, do you think our industry supports feminism or fosters an environment that is anti-feminist?

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    Default Re: How is Stripping Empowering vs Demeaning

    It's neither innately empowering or demeaning. Every stripper experiences it differently. If you're able to bring home a grand a night the job may seem a lot more empowering to you than it is to dancers who are ecstatic when they make $200. Or it may be empowering if you've lived your life in poverty or faced hunger, homelessness, etc. and are now able to provide food and housing for you and/or your family. But for the average person who grew up with enough, it's just a job to them. There are girls in the industry who feel empowered and there are girls who feel demeaned. But feeling demeaned doesn't negate your need for money, which is why there are strippers who are miserable and hate their job. The same reason why there are fast-food workers who hate their jobs. They still have bills to pay.

    Personally I wouldn't say I feel either. I don't feel empowered by doing my job. Showing my body and sharing aspects of my sexuality doesn't make me feel empowered. I just don't care. The only thing that I could consider "empowering" is the fact that I am independent. I can pay my own bills and expenses on my own and I can live comfortable. I find certain aspects of the job demeaning (for example shitty customers and being physically assaulted), but as a whole I would feel a billion times MORE demeaned working in fast food or retail where I had little to no control over my schedule, time, uniform, and how I was able to deal with disrespectful customers.

    The fact that we are able to strip supports feminism. The industry itself is a product of misogyny and sexual objectification, but it at least gives us the opportunity to exploit that for monetary gain.

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    Default Re: How is Stripping Empowering vs Demeaning

    In one example I can think of that it can be demeaning:

    I had a stripper friend who I worked with who was a genuinely nice girl. She was a clean dancer, but she didn't always know how to say no and put up with a lot of bullcrap for extra money. Girl also had some sort of low self esteem too I'm sure.

    If she wasn't comfortable being touched in certain places by customers, she was shy about saying so a lot of pushy customers took advantage of this. It's like they smelled her weakness and kept pushing her boundaries in the dance room.

    I remember when I first started dancing and being amazed at how common sense goes out the window and people act like animals once they set foot in a club. They think it's magically okay to slap, hit, abuse a dancer in some way, throw quarters and garbage at a girl on stage, grab their tit or ass as a dancer is walking through a crowded club, etc. In some more extreme cases openly assault a girl in private room and exposing their genitals etc. without another human being's consent.

    Most often there is no backup support from bouncers and managers, and in many cases it seems like they just enable this kind of behavior. There is often no protection for the girl and she is on her own.

    You never see that kind of prevalent behavior just out in public like that, and yet social rules change once it's in a strip club. The girl is walking around with almost no clothes, she clearly must enjoy and ask for this treatment.

    There are ways it's empowering sure. I would never get treated at my regular job like how I was treated as a dancer sometimes. But it's just these experiences that have shocked me so I just remember them more clearly. Just my opinion.

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    Default Re: How is Stripping Empowering vs Demeaning

    Honestly the last thing any of us should worry about is if our friends think this job is demeaning or not. If they'll never understand then who cares? Their understanding of how empowering this job is has no affect on us unless that means they will now come in and shower us with hundreds every night. lol

    But anyway, I think from a quick glance the job looks pretty demeaning. A girl being naked on stage while guys gawk at her like she's a piece of meat. But really we take control of the situation (normally) and push guys to spend ridiculous amounts of money on something like sitting and talking on their lap. The only person who is losing their dignity in that situation is the guy who's handing out hundreds. I had a customer tell me he doesn't judge any of the dancers and I immediately thought "if anyone needs to be judged its the guy who paid money to come in here and spend even more money just to have a girl on his lap". We are using our skills to get paid money every day/night that the average person doesn't even see in their paycheck every two weeks. The only person other than the customer who is losing dignity or respect would be the girl who lets every customer take advantage of her and who isn't in control of every situation. But other than that we have the confidence to use our bodies and our sales skills to be able to walk out with hundreds after only a few hours in the club. That is empowering and I could care less if other people don't see it that way.

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    Default Re: How is Stripping Empowering vs Demeaning

    Nevermind, had to reread the OP.

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    Default Re: How is Stripping Empowering vs Demeaning

    I personally feel empowered at work on the good days, and bored/annoyed on the worst days. I don't know about other dancers but my confidence has gone way up since I started dancing. I have learned to say NO to what I don't want, both in and outside of the club. Before I started dancing I was such a "nice girl" never wanting to hurt anyone's feelings and just let life happen to me. Now I'm the bitch in charge and take control. I get to choose my customers, choose what to wear, when to work and everything else in my life. If that's not empowering I don't know what is. This job is what you make it. Your friend sounds like an idiot...I don't think I could be friends with someone so closed minded. Pssh

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    Default Re: How is Stripping Empowering vs Demeaning

    It depends on the dancer. To quote one of my brilliant friends - "A woman sexualizing her own body on her own terms is not the same as someone else sexualizing a woman's body at her expense. It is false equivalency to say one is the same as the other." If a woman chooses to be a dancer and take off her clothes for men on her terms, then it's ridiculous to tell her that she's still "demeaning" herself in the same way that a woman would be demeaned if she was being forced to do so against her will.

    Some will like the job, be there out of true desire, mostly enjoy the perks it brings, and be good at enforcing their personal boundaries. Others will feel demeaned due to hating the job, not wanting to be there, feeling like they have no other choice, and/or having bad boundaries. Either way, it is still their choice, and it's nobody's business to tell them what's best for them. They obviously made the decision to be there for a reason. I personally have felt way more demeaned at minimum-wage jobs where I was constantly talked down to, yelled at for stupid things, and had my schedule fucked around with constantly. Any job can be demeaning - especially if you aren't in control. And if you're good at holding your boundaries, there's a much better chance of being in control at a SC vs. a fast food job or something.

    It's not any more anti-feminist to choose to be a stripper than it's "anti-feminist" to choose to have casual sex or flash a bar full of people. People can think and feel however they want about these actions in terms of "classiness," but it will never be "anti-women" to think that women can do what they want their own sexuality... that's silly.
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    Default Re: How is Stripping Empowering vs Demeaning

    Quote Originally Posted by wednesday86 View Post
    My confidence has gone way up since I started dancing.
    Hmm yeah me too. To put it crudely, I didn't realize how 'hot' I was until after I started dancing. I also developed a sort of diva complex and could give even less of a darn of what other people thought about me or anything for that matter. When people put you on a pedestal it certainly has that effect.

    Perhaps I've lost some of that luster. I really need to go back to GOOD clubs and not some of the country bumpkin clubs I've recently experienced.

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    Default Re: How is Stripping Empowering vs Demeaning

    Agreed with everyone else.

    People can say what they want... but who gets to sleep until 1pm, decide what days they're working and what time, what to wear, when to take a break, get paid to talk to (sometimes very interesting) people, is allowed to drink at work, and can pay all her bills on 2 shifts a week? Yeah, the stripper. Who gets to slave away 40 hours a week? Other people.

    I think it can be demeaning if you let your thick skin get a hole in it. I know I've occasionally had that thought flash into my head, usually after a customer was rude or dismissive.... but then I remind myself that HE is the one having to get his jollies off on being rude to strangers, and having to pay for female attention. The only time I really feel any animosity towards the job is when DJs or managers are chasing us down demanding tips, or when the club owner shows up and wants to take pics with the dancers like they're his 'stable' to show off. That sort of thing makes it feel a little demeaning, like "here hand over your $$ to these people who did jack shit for you all night".

    I tend to equate empowering vs. demeaning with a) how much I'm allowed to do as I please, and b) how much $$ I'm making. That said, stripping is a lot more empowering than any other job I could possibly have right now.
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    Default Re: How is Stripping Empowering vs Demeaning

    ^Good point! The club you're working at definitely has a direct effect on how I feel about it. At my old club I did feel more "demeaned" by the staff/club. They would take such a huge chunk of our earnings and demand to be tipped for nothing..Some of the bouncers were very unprofessional, hitting on the girls, etc. My club now puts the dancers on a pedestal. Bouncers aren't even allowed to speak to us without being spoken to. The managers are wonderful and as long as you pay your house fee and don't do extras or drugs they treat you like a queen. Some clubs do set the whole thing up to exploit the dancers as much as possible and that feels half as crappy as working minimum wage. BUT at the end of the night/week/month I still made way more $$ than the staff so I guess I still won.

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    Default Re: How is Stripping Empowering vs Demeaning

    I've never felt the need to explain it to anyone either way. I don't even particularly care if it's demeaning or empowering. I guess if I dug deep enough I'd find my answer, but it's not important to me. Once I make my money I just forget that the day ever existed. If something bad happened I used to ruminate over it, but I stop myself if I do that these days.
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    Default Re: How is Stripping Empowering vs Demeaning

    If he wants to talk about demeaning, how about a minimum wage customer service job? Getting yelled at by customers for long shifts and still not making enough to live on?

    It amuses me when guys at the club will say, "oh you could do so much better" when I'm like, "would you say that to the pretty girl at mcDonald's?"

    What is empowering to me about the job is my ability to say "No," take shifts off whenever I feel the need to, without having to give a reason; and being able to walk away from customers I don't want to deal with.

    Are there aspects of the job that sometimes suck? Sure. A good stripper can take things in stride and move on and count her money. But not everyone is cut out for every job, and I feel like many of the girls that get eaten alive by the industry shouldn't have started in the first place.

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    Default Re: How is Stripping Empowering vs Demeaning

    I hate how disrespectful some dancers are towards customers. We need customers, otherwise we wouldn't have their forum or this income. It bothers me when we say that customers are "pathetic losers". They are not, they are our just like us -- PEOPLE. They aren't beneath us just like we're not beneath them. I think that if more of us had more respect for each other in this MUTUALLY beneficial relationship, maybe people wouldn't see us as so disgusting/insert other typical stripper adjective.

    Anyway. I have felt both empowered and demeaned on this job. It depends on the day and what happens during my shift, just like any other job. I think whether it is demeaning or empowering is whatever angle you take on it.

    Demeaning things
    -having to lose who you are to be the customers fantasy
    -customers touching you
    -customers asking very personal and sexual things
    -having to feel bad by outsiders
    -knowing this is a title you will hold forever
    -people using it to hold against you
    -knowing a lot of it is based on your looks

    empowering
    -flexible schedule
    -nearly unlimited income potential
    -being able to be whoever you want and turning it off when you leave the club
    -realizing you're worth thousands and should be catered to
    -being able to exude sexuality, take control of it, and yet not have to have sex with anyone (my fave)

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    Default Re: How is Stripping Empowering vs Demeaning

    When I first started dancing, I had recently left an abusive ex. He kept me locked in his apartment somedays and didn't let me go to school, he stripped me and raped me, and he insulted me daily. Even after I set myself free, I felt decimated. The first time I took my clothes off in front of other people by choice, it felt empowering to me, because of my history. Instead of someone stealing my sexuality and trying to humiliate me, I was in control of myself and who I danced for. For the first time ever (for I had gone straight from my parent's house to his), I was entirely independent. So that's my personal story, and why it felt empowering to me when I first started. Now it just feels neutral.

    As to whether it is empowering/demeaning to women in general? I don't know. Is it wrong to commodify sexuality? Is it a coincidence that there are very few male strip clubs compared to female ones? Is it a result of the historical economic disparity between male/female incomes, social norms, or biological differences? Do we perpetuate the idea that women exist for men's pleasure and comfort by selling one or both of those things? Are we being exploited? How many of us have a berth of economic opportunities outside the club? Is the system rigged to send some of us into the adult industry?

    As a feminist, these have all been some questions I've faced since I began dancing. All in all, I think that in a good club, dancing will not be demeaning. I can't escape the fact that customers have used physical force on me to cross my boundaries, i.e. sexual assault. I'm not sure how that fits into everything I've already said. I'm pretty tired.

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    Default Re: How is Stripping Empowering vs Demeaning

    Quote Originally Posted by Prettyglitter View Post
    I hate how disrespectful some dancers are towards customers. We need customers, otherwise we wouldn't have their forum or this income. It bothers me when we say that customers are "pathetic losers". They are not, they are our just like us -- PEOPLE. They aren't beneath us just like we're not beneath them. I think that if more of us had more respect for each other in this MUTUALLY beneficial relationship, maybe people wouldn't see us as so disgusting/insert other typical stripper adjective.

    Anyway. I have felt both empowered and demeaned on this job. It depends on the day and what happens during my shift, just like any other job. I think whether it is demeaning or empowering is whatever angle you take on it.

    Demeaning things
    -having to lose who you are to be the customers fantasy
    -customers touching you
    -customers asking very personal and sexual things
    -having to feel bad by outsiders
    -knowing this is a title you will hold forever
    -people using it to hold against you
    -knowing a lot of it is based on your looks

    empowering
    -flexible schedule
    -nearly unlimited income potential
    -being able to be whoever you want and turning it off when you leave the club
    -realizing you're worth thousands and should be catered to
    -being able to exude sexuality, take control of it, and yet not have to have sex with anyone (my fave)
    I have never "lost who I am" into a customer's fantasy, every single fantasy my customers have is my product, that I sell to them... SO no... Never have lost myself into that lmfao...

    Customers touching me is not degrading... I am selling an experience, and part of that is physical contact... not for $20 of course, but if you would like to make the fantasy more personal with contact, of course I will give that to you for more $$$, my body is still my own after you have touched it... the fuck. lol.

    Customers asking you sexual things is part of the job lmao... if you can't handle that or think it is degrading, what are you doing being a stripper.

    What other people think of u is none of your business, so that will never be degrading...

    Stripper is never a title you will hold forever... you think you will be a stripper when you are in your grave?? You really think someone will pay your bones to dance for them??? Lmao....

    Again... no one elses opinion of your job matters... the fuck lol.

    No shit.. Literally everything is based on your looks. If you ugly, you better have a bomb ass personality in life, that's just the way life works.

    Girl you got me fucked up if you think that's the degrading part of stripping.

    The degrading part of stripping:

    Giving your money to people who neither worked for it nor deserve it...

    And having to get naked for people who are neither tipping you nor have any intention to.

    And that's literally it.

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    Default Re: How is Stripping Empowering vs Demeaning

    Quote Originally Posted by spankme View Post
    I have never "lost who I am" into a customer's fantasy, every single fantasy my customers have is my product, that I sell to them... SO no... Never have lost myself into that lmfao...

    Customers touching me is not degrading... I am selling an experience, and part of that is physical contact... not for $20 of course, but if you would like to make the fantasy more personal with contact, of course I will give that to you for more $$$, my body is still my own after you have touched it... the fuck. lol.

    Customers asking you sexual things is part of the job lmao... if you can't handle that or think it is degrading, what are you doing being a stripper.

    What other people think of u is none of your business, so that will never be degrading...

    Stripper is never a title you will hold forever... you think you will be a stripper when you are in your grave?? You really think someone will pay your bones to dance for them??? Lmao....

    Again... no one elses opinion of your job matters... the fuck lol.

    No shit.. Literally everything is based on your looks. If you ugly, you better have a bomb ass personality in life, that's just the way life works.

    Girl you got me fucked up if you think that's the degrading part of stripping.

    The degrading part of stripping:

    Giving your money to people who neither worked for it nor deserve it...

    And having to get naked for people who are neither tipping you nor have any intention to.

    And that's literally it.
    Such attitude.

    I don't think the point of the thread is to laugh at what others find demeaning - obviously people will have different experiences and perspectives. Maybe we should just respect that and not be rude about it because that really doesn't encourage anyone to discuss what they find empowering vs demeaning.

    For example the scenarios you describe as degrading I consider merely annoying but you don't see me go "lol that's not degrading get a new job if you can't deal with that lmao" because my view on stripping doesn't make your feelings about it any less valid.

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    Default Re: How is Stripping Empowering vs Demeaning

    Quote Originally Posted by spankme View Post
    I have never "lost who I am" into a customer's fantasy, every single fantasy my customers have is my product, that I sell to them... SO no... Never have lost myself into that lmfao...

    Customers touching me is not degrading... I am selling an experience, and part of that is physical contact... not for $20 of course, but if you would like to make the fantasy more personal with contact, of course I will give that to you for more $$$, my body is still my own after you have touched it... the fuck. lol.

    Customers asking you sexual things is part of the job lmao... if you can't handle that or think it is degrading, what are you doing being a stripper.

    What other people think of u is none of your business, so that will never be degrading...

    Stripper is never a title you will hold forever... you think you will be a stripper when you are in your grave?? You really think someone will pay your bones to dance for them??? Lmao....

    Again... no one elses opinion of your job matters... the fuck lol.

    No shit.. Literally everything is based on your looks. If you ugly, you better have a bomb ass personality in life, that's just the way life works.

    Girl you got me fucked up if you think that's the degrading part of stripping.

    The degrading part of stripping:

    Giving your money to people who neither worked for it nor deserve it...

    And having to get naked for people who are neither tipping you nor have any intention to.

    And that's literally it.
    Thanks for the insight.

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    Default Re: How is Stripping Empowering vs Demeaning

    Quote Originally Posted by spankme View Post
    I have never "lost who I am" into a customer's fantasy, every single fantasy my customers have is my product, that I sell to them... SO no... Never have lost myself into that lmfao...

    Customers touching me is not degrading... I am selling an experience, and part of that is physical contact... not for $20 of course, but if you would like to make the fantasy more personal with contact, of course I will give that to you for more $$$, my body is still my own after you have touched it... the fuck. lol.

    Customers asking you sexual things is part of the job lmao... if you can't handle that or think it is degrading, what are you doing being a stripper.

    What other people think of u is none of your business, so that will never be degrading...

    Stripper is never a title you will hold forever... you think you will be a stripper when you are in your grave?? You really think someone will pay your bones to dance for them??? Lmao....

    Again... no one elses opinion of your job matters... the fuck lol.

    No shit.. Literally everything is based on your looks. If you ugly, you better have a bomb ass personality in life, that's just the way life works.

    Girl you got me fucked up if you think that's the degrading part of stripping.
    ^^^^ this 'tude is really uncalled for. Unless of course, we all missed smtg from the OP where it said anything abt 'how is stripping demeaning vs empowering, while falling specifically into So&So's personal approval'

    I think the main thread connecting all of the points Prettyglitter listed, is when it's done by pushy, disrespectful customers who are deliberately forcing her or any other girl's boundaries. I happen to agree fully w/ everything she mentioned. Contact in&of itself? I agree, not necessarily degrading … but when it's from a person who is trying to force it on you, even when you have the upper hand & can extricate yourself from the situation, that IS pretty demeaning.

    'It's none of your business what other ppl think of you' Well unlesss you've only ever encountered the top 0.00001% of ppl who are either neutral or falling over themselves to worship your badass-ness for being a stripper, there are plenty of ppl who make it their business to tell us just how poorly they think of us. In many outsiders' minds, it doesn't matter why we strip, or how much education/travel/whatever we accomplish as a result … we will still, always, just be 'Eeeeeeewwwwww … strippers! '

    While I fully agree w/ you that those ignorant opinions SHOULDN'T matter to us, mainly bc of the depth of their ignorance … I'll be honest, I am w/ the girls who find that realisation depressing. Being reduced in other ppl's minds to [insert the usual nasty stripper stereotypes here] bc they are too happily closed-minded to see beyond the stereotypes … I find it sad that humanity in general remains so high&mighty & willfully ignorant. I guess I find this attutide to be as demeaning to the ppl who hold it, as it is to the ppl it's directed at.

    Customers asking sexual things … I am kinda back&forth on it. My main problem is the customers who do it w/ the intent of a) wasting your time, b) trying to turn fantasy into reality regardless of how you might feel abt it, or c) those who do it purely to make you uncomfortable or frightened. There was mention on here by a girl whose customer said 'You're the kind of girl I want to rape every day for the rest of my life' <---- shit like that IS uncalled-for & not the kind of 'sexual convo' that's appropriate for the SC.

    Another thing I find degrading -- when other ppl, esp fellow sex workers, try to make us feel like shit bc we find certain aspects of the job upsetting/insulting/whatever. Just more of the typical 'STFU Bitch, you're a fkng stripper, that's what you signed up for' mindset. No one says you have to agree w/ another's experiences … but there's no need to shit on each other over these differences.

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    Default Re: How is Stripping Empowering vs Demeaning

    ^thank you Aniela. I agree completely. That's exactly what I meant by physical contact (ever been walking and someone slapped your ass without permission, or you're giving a dance and a customer continuously tries to touch your vagina when you're said no to? That to me is demeaning because it disregards my boundaries and basically says what I want does not matter). As far as the personal and sexual questions, they in themselves aren't demeaning. It's just when customers feel entitled to ask you every little thing about yourself and do not care if you're uncomfortable with the questions and continue to push the matter. Everything is really based on customers understanding boundaries and choosing to ignore them because "you're a stripper".

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    Veteran Member Likethis's Avatar
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    Default Re: How is Stripping Empowering vs Demeaning

    Also the "it doesn't matter what anyone thinks" argument is a bit simplistic.

    For example you risk getting treated badly by random assholes as well as by people who have some kind of authority. Let's say you want a certain job and the employer finds out about stripping, it shouldn't matter but then again it could and then you can say "what other people think doesn't matter" all you want but their opinion will still affect you in a direct way. Or imagine you want a specific apartment and you say you are a stripper because who cares what others think right? I wouldn't count on you not being discriminated against. Or let's say you have a child and you end up in a battle for custody, try arguing that "only my opinion matters" then.

    Something like stripping could be used against you and other people's opinions could affect you whether you care about them or not.

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    Default Re: How is Stripping Empowering vs Demeaning

    I kind of hold the stripper title with pride. Like, I know I "shouldn't" but I do. Knowing that my body, my looks, my sexuality is worthy enough in some people's eyes to be worth paying for is empowering. Just like anything else can be empowering. It just becomes one of my many assets.

    Even when I retire from dancing, I'll be proud of the fact that I was a stripper, among other things.


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