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  1. #1
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    Mind Blowing Payment Kiosk

    I'm trying to keep my credit card paid off with the money from dancing and I have some options I'm not exactly sure what would be better.

    I wish I could just walk in to a bank with cash but there is no physical bank location here. I can use a payment kiosk for a $5 fee or deposit in my bank account and have funds taken from my personal bank account (I don't have a business bank account right now but plan to get one soon).

    I think I can mail a money order but I'll have to double check.

    Wondering what do you think is the best way to do this?
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    Default Re: Payment Kiosk

    Can you deposit cash through the ATM? Is that what you mean by payment kiosk bc I've never been charged a fee to do this. I believe you can pay off your card with money orders but make a copy of them or save the slips.
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    Default Re: Payment Kiosk

    I'm confused... are you trying to hide your dancing income? Why couldn't you just put it in your bank account?

    I've been paying big chunks of my credit cards off, with just money put into my personal bank account (I know, I know, you're supposed to have a separate business account... I'm lazy and I keep paper records anyway). I declare and pay taxes on that $$ though so there isn't any "where'd that come from?"
    I think you can get a cashier's check for mailing.
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    Default Re: Payment Kiosk

    The kiosk is some freestanding machine where for a small fee you can pay various types of bills like electric, credit cards, cell phone. As far as I know, It's not connected to any bank and you can't make withdrawals so it's kind of different from a bank atm.

    I was just wondering if it was better to use dancing money to pay the bills (like credit card) directly and skip the deposit to my personal bank account until I can get this business bank account.

    Thanks for the tip jasmine22 on making copy of money order receipts. If I went this route, I would use the envelope the credit card company gives so I wouldn't have to pay for postage - only downside is I wouldn't be able to track it after I mail it off so if it gets lost in mail, then the receipt should be proof of payment to protect against being penalized with late fees.
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    Default Re: Payment Kiosk

    Quote Originally Posted by Selina M View Post
    I'm confused... are you trying to hide your dancing income? Why couldn't you just put it in your bank account?

    I've been paying big chunks of my credit cards off, with just money put into my personal bank account (I know, I know, you're supposed to have a separate business account... I'm lazy and I keep paper records anyway). I declare and pay taxes on that $$ though so there isn't any "where'd that come from?"
    I think you can get a cashier's check for mailing.
    That's actually what I've been doing but every time I do it dawns on me that i might not be doing it the correct way. Also, Cause it's a personal account not a business account. I thought as independent contractor dancing income should go into a business account.

    I do keep spreadsheet of all earnings, report said earnings, and pay taxes cause I want to stay legal.
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    Default Re: Payment Kiosk

    Quote Originally Posted by miss.a.p1600 View Post
    The kiosk is some freestanding machine where for a small fee you can pay various types of bills like electric, credit cards, cell phone. As far as I know, It's not connected to any bank and you can't make withdrawals so it's kind of different from a bank atm.

    I was just wondering if it was better to use dancing money to pay the bills (like credit card) directly and skip the deposit to my personal bank account until I can get this business bank account.

    Thanks for the tip jasmine22 on making copy of money order receipts. If I went this route, I would use the envelope the credit card company gives so I wouldn't have to pay for postage - only downside is I wouldn't be able to track it after I mail it off so if it gets lost in mail, then the receipt should be proof of payment to protect against being penalized with late fees.
    You don't need a business account. I haven't had one and i've been an I.C. for 20 years. In fact the advisor I spoke with told me not to inless I incorporated which I doubt I'll do at this point.

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    God/dess rickdugan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Payment Kiosk

    The only real benefit to having a separate account for business purposes is to separate business related deposits and expenses for easier tracking at tax time. Most ICs can (and do) accomplish this almost as easily with a single personal account. At most banks, you cannot open a true business account anyway without a separate legal entity (LLC, LP, LLP, C-Corp, S-Corp, etc.) registered with a state and an EIN issued by the IRS.

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    Default Re: Payment Kiosk

    ^ yep.

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    Default Re: Payment Kiosk

    Quote Originally Posted by miss.a.p1600 View Post
    That's actually what I've been doing but every time I do it dawns on me that i might not be doing it the correct way. Also, Cause it's a personal account not a business account. I thought as independent contractor dancing income should go into a business account.

    I do keep spreadsheet of all earnings, report said earnings, and pay taxes cause I want to stay legal.
    I've actually never seen that kind of kiosk except at the Sprint store and one electric company here. Weird.

    I dunno, I agree with Michele and Rick that it doesn't seem worth it. As long as your declared income on your tax form is sufficient to cover your bank deposits, I don't see that it should be suspicious or an issue. I've had cash income either via dancing or waiting tables for 6 years and I don't put my money in the bank at all except to pay bills, just because I manage my money better when it's cash, and I've never had an issue (knock on wood).
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    Default Re: Payment Kiosk

    Quote Originally Posted by rickdugan View Post
    The only real benefit to having a separate account for business purposes is to separate business related deposits and expenses for easier tracking at tax time. Most ICs can (and do) accomplish this almost as easily with a single personal account. At most banks, you cannot open a true business account anyway without a separate legal entity (LLC, LP, LLP, C-Corp, S-Corp, etc.) registered with a state and an EIN issued by the IRS.
    Which is exactly what you want. A separate legal entity, even if it is a sole proprietorship with a EIN will provide some insulation. A LLC or corporation is of course better. For three reasons: (1) much easier at tax time, (2) there may be tax benefits, and probably most important (3) cover from snooping potential employers and/or stalkers.

    Get an EIN. Even if you just register a sole proprietorship. (Some corporate form like and LLC, LLP or corporation is better.) Open a business account with a bank that has a good network of ATMs where you can make deposits. Preferably ATMs that are located close to the place(s) you dance. Every night, put your earnings, all your earnings, in the business account. Pay yourself a draft when you need too. There's no tax on the draft. But, you will have to make your quarterly tax payments on your business' net income. (Another good thing about businesses are they are taxed on net income, not gross.) Use your draft money to pay your credit cards down.

    Complicated? Not really when you get the hang of it. It's the way real businesses operate. It will help you if you ever get audited and best of all, your separate company (even a sole proprietorship) has some innocuous sounding name. Mine was my first name, my last name and consulting services. I had a pre-paid cell phone for my business phone. I had a business bank account. I had an EIN. I paid my quarterly taxes. Anyone looking, even carefully, would think I was just a successful college student/entrepreneur, which in fact, I was. That consulting business is still in business today. Doing a different line of work, but still very much in business. So, when someone does a credit check on my consulting business, they will find out I've been in business for 17 years. The business has a 100% on time payment record for it's credit cards. My consultancy doesn't owe any other debts and never has. That hurts its credit score some. But, my consulting business Master Card has a credit line of $100,000. So, the credit score can't be too shabby.

    Z

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    Default Re: Payment Kiosk

    Quote Originally Posted by Zofia View Post
    Which is exactly what you want. A separate legal entity, even if it is a sole proprietorship with a EIN will provide some insulation. A LLC or corporation is of course better. For three reasons: (1) much easier at tax time, (2) there may be tax benefits, and probably most important (3) cover from snooping potential employers and/or stalkers.

    Get an EIN. Even if you just register a sole proprietorship. (Some corporate form like and LLC, LLP or corporation is better.) Open a business account with a bank that has a good network of ATMs where you can make deposits. Preferably ATMs that are located close to the place(s) you dance. Every night, put your earnings, all your earnings, in the business account. Pay yourself a draft when you need too. There's no tax on the draft. But, you will have to make your quarterly tax payments on your business' net income. (Another good thing about businesses are they are taxed on net income, not gross.) Use your draft money to pay your credit cards down.

    Complicated? Not really when you get the hang of it. It's the way real businesses operate. It will help you if you ever get audited and best of all, your separate company (even a sole proprietorship) has some innocuous sounding name. Mine was my first name, my last name and consulting services. I had a pre-paid cell phone for my business phone. I had a business bank account. I had an EIN. I paid my quarterly taxes. Anyone looking, even carefully, would think I was just a successful college student/entrepreneur, which in fact, I was. That consulting business is still in business today. Doing a different line of work, but still very much in business. So, when someone does a credit check on my consulting business, they will find out I've been in business for 17 years. The business has a 100% on time payment record for it's credit cards. My consultancy doesn't owe any other debts and never has. That hurts its credit score some. But, my consulting business Master Card has a credit line of $100,000. So, the credit score can't be too shabby.

    Z
    Thanks! I would kill for a 100k line of credit. In due time I guess.

    I actually Do have an EIN and a sole proprietorship. But I use for my income I generate online. Money goes into my paypal business account. I should probably Transfer my profits into a business bank account but i figured since its labeled as a business account it's okay for now.

    As for income I generate in club. Yes that's exactly what I want is to keep off audit list and appear more professional so deposits into business bank account is what I've been thinking I need to do. Should I get separate EIN for dancing income since this is totally different line of work from my online income? Or can both sources of income be funneled into same business bank account?
    “Cook for him like a housewife, fuck him good like a nympho….pay the rent and the car note, he invests in me like crypto”

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    Default Re: Payment Kiosk

    Quote Originally Posted by Zofia View Post
    Which is exactly what you want. A separate legal entity, even if it is a sole proprietorship with a EIN will provide some insulation. A LLC or corporation is of course better. For three reasons: (1) much easier at tax time, (2) there may be tax benefits, and probably most important (3) cover from snooping potential employers and/or stalkers.

    Get an EIN. Even if you just register a sole proprietorship. (Some corporate form like and LLC, LLP or corporation is better.) Open a business account with a bank that has a good network of ATMs where you can make deposits. Preferably ATMs that are located close to the place(s) you dance. Every night, put your earnings, all your earnings, in the business account. Pay yourself a draft when you need too. There's no tax on the draft. But, you will have to make your quarterly tax payments on your business' net income. (Another good thing about businesses are they are taxed on net income, not gross.) Use your draft money to pay your credit cards down.

    Complicated? Not really when you get the hang of it. It's the way real businesses operate. It will help you if you ever get audited and best of all, your separate company (even a sole proprietorship) has some innocuous sounding name. Mine was my first name, my last name and consulting services. I had a pre-paid cell phone for my business phone. I had a business bank account. I had an EIN. I paid my quarterly taxes. Anyone looking, even carefully, would think I was just a successful college student/entrepreneur, which in fact, I was. That consulting business is still in business today. Doing a different line of work, but still very much in business. So, when someone does a credit check on my consulting business, they will find out I've been in business for 17 years. The business has a 100% on time payment record for it's credit cards. My consultancy doesn't owe any other debts and never has. That hurts its credit score some. But, my consulting business Master Card has a credit line of $100,000. So, the credit score can't be too shabby.

    Z
    My accountant told me I'd pay more. And you can't file a corp as a consultant while dancing. I'm a platinum member at bank of america( one of my 3 accounts) which means I've reached a level in my account Even the bank consultant said it wouldn't benefit me... Edit to add an llc you need employees and need to offer stock options. An s corp you pay yourself based on what you think another emloyer would. Whic is a huge grey area with the IRS. If you are not making 6 figures a year you are overthinking. Just file taxes yearly and you'll be ok and the IRS doesn't care if you have a business account. Just that they get paid. Don't make it harder than it needs to be...
    Last edited by michele11; 08-20-2015 at 05:13 PM. Reason: Added info

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    Default Re: Payment Kiosk

    Quote Originally Posted by miss.a.p1600 View Post
    Thanks! I would kill for a 100k line of credit. In due time I guess.

    I actually Do have an EIN and a sole proprietorship. But I use for my income I generate online. Money goes into my paypal business account. I should probably Transfer my profits into a business bank account but i figured since its labeled as a business account it's okay for now.
    Excellent! And, the paypal account is adequate as a business account for the time being. Not as good as a real bank, but a good start.

    As for income I generate in club. Yes that's exactly what I want is to keep off audit list and appear more professional so deposits into business bank account is what I've been thinking I need to do. Should I get separate EIN for dancing income since this is totally different line of work from my online income? Or can both sources of income be funneled into same business bank account?
    You can use the EIN you already have. You will be filing as a proprietorship, so it's just a schedule C on your 1040. For the NAICS code, you will have to use the one that is "most" appropriate for your business. I would still recommend a business checking account at a bank or credit union.

    But, good job so far.

    XOXO
    Z

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    Default Re: Payment Kiosk

    Quote Originally Posted by michele11 View Post
    My accountant told me I'd pay more.
    That all depends. With a C corporation, usually you do. With a LLC, proprietorship or S corporation, you will pay the same rate as your personal rate. Of course, businesses are taxed on a net income basis, so even a proprietorship on a schedule C is going to have deductions an individual won't have.

    And you can't file a corp as a consultant while dancing.
    You need a new accountant. You can set up a corporation for any legal purpose. The IRS will certainly not care if you run your dancing income through the corporation so long as you do it correctly.

    I'm a platinum member at bank of america( one of my 3 accounts) which means I've reached a level in my account Even the bank consultant said it wouldn't benefit me...
    Not sure what that means. But, businesses have a business account for receiving their income and paying their expenses.

    Edit to add an llc you need employees and need to offer stock options.
    No, you don't. On the EIN application, the IRS will ask when you expect to have employees, but that is just to trigger a check that you are withholding as required. You certainly don't need to offer stock options. In fact, stock options are a whole new problem which most LLC, sub-S corporations and even lots of C corporations avoid at all costs. The Sarbanes-Oxley regulations have all but killed the stock option for any company that is not listed on the NYSE or NASDAQ.

    An s corp you pay yourself based on what you think another emloyer would. Whic is a huge grey area with the IRS. If you are not making 6 figures a year you are overthinking. Just file taxes yearly and you'll be ok and the IRS doesn't care if you have a business account. Just that they get paid. Don't make it harder than it needs to be...
    Correct about an S corporation. The IRS is charged with collecting FUTA and FICA taxes. Thus, they want to make sure that people who are employees, including officers and directors are appropriately taxed.

    Correct on one level that the IRS doesn't care if you have a business account or not. In fact, they would rather you don't. That way they can much easier disallow your claimed expenses as personal rather than business. However, it is a much better practice to have a business account. That makes proving income and expenses much easier for the taxpayer. Also, you can only get by with not paying your quarterly estimates for one year. After that, you have to make your quarterly estimates.

    The point here is not to skate by crossing your fingers and hoping not to get audited. The point is to be prepared and professional so if an audit comes, you will be successful. And a secondary point is to provide some insulation from prying eyes.

    HTH
    Z

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    Default Re: Payment Kiosk

    I have to disagree. Businesses get audited as much or more. My above comment...so you are saying an entertainer can file as a consultant and incorporate as so?

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    Default Re: Payment Kiosk

    Quote Originally Posted by Zofia View Post
    Which is exactly what you want. A separate legal entity, even if it is a sole proprietorship with a EIN will provide some insulation. A LLC or corporation is of course better. For three reasons: (1) much easier at tax time, (2) there may be tax benefits, and probably most important (3) cover from snooping potential employers and/or stalkers.

    Get an EIN. Even if you just register a sole proprietorship. (Some corporate form like and LLC, LLP or corporation is better.) Open a business account with a bank that has a good network of ATMs where you can make deposits. Preferably ATMs that are located close to the place(s) you dance. Every night, put your earnings, all your earnings, in the business account. Pay yourself a draft when you need too. There's no tax on the draft. But, you will have to make your quarterly tax payments on your business' net income. (Another good thing about businesses are they are taxed on net income, not gross.) Use your draft money to pay your credit cards down.

    Complicated? Not really when you get the hang of it. It's the way real businesses operate. It will help you if you ever get audited and best of all, your separate company (even a sole proprietorship) has some innocuous sounding name. Mine was my first name, my last name and consulting services. I had a pre-paid cell phone for my business phone. I had a business bank account. I had an EIN. I paid my quarterly taxes. Anyone looking, even carefully, would think I was just a successful college student/entrepreneur, which in fact, I was. That consulting business is still in business today. Doing a different line of work, but still very much in business. So, when someone does a credit check on my consulting business, they will find out I've been in business for 17 years. The business has a 100% on time payment record for it's credit cards. My consultancy doesn't owe any other debts and never has. That hurts its credit score some. But, my consulting business Master Card has a credit line of $100,000. So, the credit score can't be too shabby.

    Z
    Zofia, a sole proprietorship is not a separate legal entity and provides no legal protections for the individual whatsoever. Even if you open a bank account up for business purposes and provide the bank with a DBA, the account is still linked to the owner's personal SS Number. If a sole proprietor is sued for business reasons, the creditor can go after both "business" and "personal" accounts equally. Also, a sole proprietorship cannot separately declare bankruptcy - the individual must file for a personal bankruptcy.

    The only functional purposes that a separate EIN serves a sole proprietor are to: (1) allow the sole proprietor to hire employees and submit tax reporting; and/or; (2) serve as an added security measure for those who must issue W-9s to clients and do not wish to provide their SS numbers. That is it, so I'm not sure what having a separate EIN really accomplishes for most dancers. Also, I am also struggling to see the practical upside in maintaining multiple bank accounts as a dancer who has no employees to pay and a modest amount of deductible expenses.

    Like you, I own a business with all of the bells and whistles, including an LLC, bank accounts owned by the business, employees and business credit cards. But I'm guessing that you, like I, have several different income sources, a large laundry list of business expenses to pay, legal liability considerations and perhaps even employees. Honestly, if I was in a dancer's position, without most of those issues to contend with, the hassles in setting all of that up and would have been greater than the practical upsides IMHO.

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    Default Re: Payment Kiosk

    Quote Originally Posted by michele11 View Post
    ...so you are saying an entertainer can file as a consultant and incorporate as so?
    If your club treats you as an independent contractor, then absolutely. As Zofia indicated above, there is no requirement to have employees. You could even name your business something like "Michelle's Entertainment" with an "LLC" or "Inc." at the end, depending on which corporate structure you choose and assuming the name is not already taken in the state that you are filing in. A single member LLC filing is the least complicated structure for a number of reasons, but there are pros and cons with each possible option. There are also plenty of companies out there that assist in most of the filing leg work for short money.

    The only question, as I raised above, is whether it is worth the time, effort and ongoing maintenance for most entertainers. All of this stuff costs time and money, including setting up the entity, maintaining multiple bank accounts and paying annual fees to the state to keep the corporate entity registration active. Also, almost any entity other than an LLC also comes with additional accounting and tax reporting issues and expenses.

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    Default Re: Payment Kiosk

    ^ Exactly why i never have. And if an advisor at a bank that can see how much money I have and my account told me it wouldn't benefit me why bother. I have rentals as well. And a hefty portfolio. I think it's fair to say it wouldn't benefit most entertainers on this site and would be more hassle than worth. Edit to add. I'm speaking of a business account ( advisor at bank) and incorporating( my accountant). But can I incorporate rentals as to protect me?
    Last edited by michele11; 08-21-2015 at 08:34 PM. Reason: Added info

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    Default Re: Payment Kiosk

    Sorry for threadjack.

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    Default Re: Payment Kiosk

    Quote Originally Posted by michele11 View Post
    ^ Exactly why i never have. And if an advisor at a bank that can see how much money I have and my account told me it wouldn't benefit me why bother. I have rentals as well. And a hefty portfolio. I think it's fair to say it wouldn't benefit most entertainers on this site and would be more hassle than worth. Edit to add. I'm speaking of a business account ( advisor at bank) and incorporating( my accountant). But can I incorporate rentals as to protect me?
    Well, I think it is fair to say that your situation is a bit different from most dancers. In your case, I could actually see the benefits of setting up a separate legal entity. The biggest single benefit in doing so is that it shields your personal assets (primary residence, personal bank accounts, investment portfolios) from creditors in the event that your business interests go belly up or if you are sued for some reason. I would talk to your accountant again about the pros and cons of setting up an LLC. Unlike most corporate structures, they are generally not taxed as separate entities and, hence, you do not have to go through all of the accounting gymnastics. However, they still provide the benefit of putting a legal structure between your business and personal assets.

    And yes, if you hold clear title to the rental properties, you could transfer them into another legal entity that you own. You could even setup an LLC for each individual rental property, though that might be more trouble than it is worth. You could also set up an entity intended to encompass your real estate management activities or even one to cover all of your non-employment income activities [think "Michelle Enterprises, LLC" ].

    Again, I think your accountant is a good place to start, but I also think that you may also want to spend a few bucks to consult with a local business attorney. At this stage of your game, it might be a good idea to take whatever steps you can to insulate your personal assets from your business dealings.

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    I was reading up on llc a few years ago and they said the common misconception is people think it protects them but not anymore? Since so many have formed new laws have been put in place and they don't provide protection against personal assets?
    Last edited by michele11; 08-21-2015 at 09:24 PM. Reason: Added info

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    Michelle, the level of protection varies dramatically depending upon the issue and from state to state. It's usually still fairly good protection against common business debts if you follow certain guidelines. An LLC enters into agreements as its own legal entity and, as long as you do not personally guarantee the debt and do not mix personal assets with business assets, the odds are usually good that business creditors cannot "pierce the corporate veil" as the expression goes. And if the business sours, an LLC can declare bankruptcy. Protection against liability lawsuits can be another matter. Anyone can be sued for doing something wrong, even if he/she does something on behalf of the company.

    Even if the protections are not perfect or all encompassing, some still exist and they are a good thing to have if shit ever hits the fan on the business front. I would definitely speak with an attorney if I were you.

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    But what business assets does a dancer have? I think I'm good. I'm dealing with an attorney now about my rental and the association capping rentals and one for a separate legal issue. Those are my main focus now as I'm losing 9,000 a yr in extra income.

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    Quote Originally Posted by michele11 View Post
    I have to disagree. Businesses get audited as much or more. My above comment...so you are saying an entertainer can file as a consultant and incorporate as so?
    You can incorporate or form a LLC for any legal purpose, including dancing or any other sort of entertainment. The vast majority of LLCs and corporations are formed "for all legal purposes."

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    Quote Originally Posted by rickdugan View Post
    If your club treats you as an independent contractor, then absolutely. As Zofia indicated above, there is no requirement to have employees. You could even name your business something like "Michelle's Entertainment" with an "LLC" or "Inc." at the end, depending on which corporate structure you choose and assuming the name is not already taken in the state that you are filing in. A single member LLC filing is the least complicated structure for a number of reasons, but there are pros and cons with each possible option. There are also plenty of companies out there that assist in most of the filing leg work for short money.

    The only question, as I raised above, is whether it is worth the time, effort and ongoing maintenance for most entertainers. All of this stuff costs time and money, including setting up the entity, maintaining multiple bank accounts and paying annual fees to the state to keep the corporate entity registration active. Also, almost any entity other than an LLC also comes with additional accounting and tax reporting issues and expenses.
    A separate bank account for the dancing business is a great benefit. If for no other reason to prove your income if the need arises. Dancing income goes into the dancing business account. Expenses get paid out of it. Should the need arise, say at an audit or when renting an apartment, your proof of income is right there in the check register. No need to fight with the IRS about tip outs and the like, that money never came in, the dancer never had dominion over it. Also, if the 1099 rules ever really do get enforced, no need to worry about them either. As far as the expense of maintaining a LLC, that depends on how much risk of discovery the dancer is willing to take on. If she doesn't care, then it's not worth paying. But, a college girl who might look at some state licensing board someday, she would probably prefer to get a paycheck from some innocent sounding LLC in Wyoming than having a bunch of strip clubs, web cam, Ashley Madison payments directly linked to her.

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