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Thread: Destroy and Thaw Frozen Embryos?This

  1. #1
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    Default Destroy and Thaw Frozen Embryos?This

    This is so sad and fawked up. If I was this woman id hire some goon type dudes to kick my ex-husbands a$$.

    This woman lost her last chance at having biological children when the judge ordered her embryos created with her ex-husbands sperm to be destroyed. Prior to her divorce she developed cancer and before she did chemo they created embryos. They both agreed the embryos would be destroyed in the event of a divorce. After the chemo she was infertile and later they got divorced.

    I get she signed an agreement but sometimes we sign things or agree to things not knowing how we'd feel when that time arises.

    http://www.buzzfeed.com/azeenghorays...-divorce-court

    it may just be an embryo but it's still potentially a viable baby that could develop from that. I'd be so pissed at the dude if I were her. I get he might not want to be responsible for kids with a woman he's divorcing but couldn't he just sign over his rights and let her have a chance at biological kids since she suffered through cancer and was rendered infertile from chemo???

    Or maybe she should have just frozen her eggs without his sperm just in case something like this happened?
    Last edited by miss.a.p1600; 11-22-2015 at 09:19 PM.
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    Default Re: Destroy and Thaw Frozen Embryos?This

    Quote Originally Posted by miss.a.p1600 View Post
    Or maybe she should have just frozen her eggs without his sperm just in case something like this happened?
    This.

    I read about this also, we don't know all the details.
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    Default Re: Destroy and Thaw Frozen Embryos?This

    What a great way for a woman to punish her ex, forever. Keep creating biological kids and hitting him for child support.

    Seriously, it cannot be both ways, if a man is responsible for his kids forever, then he must have the choice of having those kids, and she does not have the right to sign away their right to support.

    Any other result is illogical.

    Lets flip it around, same situation, woman has great job, [fat abusive]ex husband wants embryos implanted in a surrogate. She is going to get hit for child support, medical, college.........you cannot contractually sign away another persons rights, the husband dies and those are her biological kids, every court in the country will demand she pay.

    The law is a funny thing, be careful what you wish for.

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    Default Re: Destroy and Thaw Frozen Embryos?This

    Yeah but if he signed over his rights he wouldn't have to be responsible...

    Like if I were her and i wanted biological kids that bad I would be like give me the embryos and you'll never pay a dime in support cause I'm wealthy and I don't need you or your money (this broad is a neurosurgeon so she's got the money)

    If she could prove to the court she has say for example a trust fund worth 100k so that she never has to ask this man for child support, she agrees never to ask him for child support or any other kind of support, she remarries and this person adopts the kids, then I don't see why he can't sign over his rights.

    I think dude is hateful. It's not like she's some stranger. He loved her enough to marry her, stay married for years, and create embryos with her but he can't allow a grieving infertile cancer survivor one last chance at biological kids???

    Plus I just think it's sad the court did this and the wording "thawed, destroyed, and discarded"??? Really?!? I would not let them talk about my embryos like that!

    She should have gotten a better lawyer and I would have sued the fertility clinic. They should have warned her about the laws in a situation like this and suggested she also freeze her eggs only in case a douchey ex has the embryos 'destroyed'.
    Last edited by miss.a.p1600; 11-23-2015 at 07:59 AM.
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    Default Re: Destroy and Thaw Frozen Embryos?This

    i think its really sad for her, but on the other hand she signed a contract saying that in the event of divorce they would be destroyed..and if its with his sperm, he does have a say too..
    however, who the hell said she was "fat and abusive"? and wtf would anybody being "fat"have to do with a decision like that? jesus christ...

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    Default Re: Destroy and Thaw Frozen Embryos?This

    I'm not sure if there is a way to separate the embryos however, I can understand him not wanting to procreate having a kid with his ex-wife. (Cancer is a terrible thing, but sadly life has a way of shaking death's rattle) We expect our loved one's to understand and stay by our side through thick and thin, which doesn't always fall through. After her battle, of course she should be happy and be able to have babies of her own, with him? He doesn't want to. She should do everything she can to store whatever eggs may remain, find a donor or partner willing to go through the process. Non the less, the guy will be a forever douche-nozzle if he crushes her dream of ever being a Mother.

    Him
    1. The kid may come after the father at an older age
    2. He may not be a parent by law, but he still has a kid from his sperm.
    3. She may use it against him (Highly doubtful, which points to him being a douche)
    4. He has to live with the fact he can't have anything to do with that child.

    Her
    1. Battled through cancer, became infertile through Chemo and may not have a chance at reproduction.
    2. Wants to keep the embryos and adopt the baby that may come from it.

    Its a tough and selfish situation..
    Last edited by BambiCutie; 11-23-2015 at 09:11 AM.

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    Default Re: Destroy and Thaw Frozen Embryos?This

    First, no one said SHE was fat and abusive, I used that as an exaggeration for an imaginary man trying to force his imaginary wife to have children she did not want

    Second he cannot ever ever ever ever ever ever sign anything that will eliminate his responsibility for the child. The day the child is born he is its father and is completely and solely responsible for it. Period. Full stop.

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    Default Re: Destroy and Thaw Frozen Embryos?This

    ^ well you were drawing a parallel, like "lets flip this around" why include fat and abusive then….
    legally, he absolutely can give up his rights, "morally" might be another story.

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    Default Re: Destroy and Thaw Frozen Embryos?This

    >>>legally, he absolutely can give up his rights<<<

    No he cannot, they are not his rights to give up, they are the child's rights and there is no lawyer, court or parent that can sign them away

    It is interesting the focus on the rights 'to' the child instead of the rights 'of' the child.

    and enough already, this is conversation predicated on sympathy for one parent over the other, and I was merely trying to create as unsympathetic an image as I could of a theoretical person who is in exactly the same situation, trying to conjure up your worst nightmare custy image. Why anyone would imagine I was referring to the woman is beyond me. If you find that [my wording]offensive, then I apologize

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    God/dess miss.a.p1600's Avatar
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    Default Re: Destroy and Thaw Frozen Embryos?This

    I don't see how he would be responsible in any way if he signed over his rights AND she had a significant other/spouse who was willing to adopt them.

    I think he just doesn't want any adult kids finding him and coming up to him later running guilt trips like aren't you my biological dad and why didn't you want me?

    Idk. This guy would probably have been a sucky father anyways. She should have just frozen her eggs along with the embryos so if he decided he didn't want the embryos meaning they'd have to be destroyed at least she's still have something of her own to use later.

    Now I supposed her only option is to adopt. I hope she get adoption money as part of her divorce settlement since he's destroying her their embryos and her chance at biological kids.
    Last edited by miss.a.p1600; 11-23-2015 at 11:26 AM.
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    Default Re: Destroy and Thaw Frozen Embryos?This

    Quote Originally Posted by oldster View Post
    >>>legally, he absolutely can give up his rights<<<

    No he cannot, they are not his rights to give up, they are the child's rights and there is no lawyer, court or parent that can sign them away

    It is interesting the focus on the rights 'to' the child instead of the rights 'of' the child.

    and enough already, this is conversation predicated on sympathy for one parent over the other, and I was merely trying to create as unsympathetic an image as I could of a theoretical person who is in exactly the same situation, trying to conjure up your worst nightmare custy image. Why anyone would imagine I was referring to the woman is beyond me. If you find that [my wording]offensive, then I apologize
    I can understand that, it is more in the sense of having to give up a child. He would be looked at as a scum bag who abandoned his ex-wife of battling Cancer to raise a baby alone, that is a very big burden to carry morally..for that reason it drives him to have them destroyed. He could allow her to adopt the baby, but what woman would date let alone hold a future relationship with someone having that type of background? I doubt many.. His future is at stake as much her chances of conceiving.

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    God/dess miss.a.p1600's Avatar
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    Default Re: Destroy and Thaw Frozen Embryos?This

    He already looks like scum.

    If I were her and I wanted the biological kids that bad I'd offer him this:

    -sign your rights over (you won't be responsible financially or legally)
    -I pay 100% for the kids till age 25 and already have a trust fund worth 100k/kid
    -no guilt trips as the kids will never be aware of you or contact you (like a closed adoption)
    -my spouse will adopt the kids making him father and responsible along with myself
    -I sign NDA never discussing the details with media or anyone and never talk negatively about you

    And voila! Got the biological kids without ever worrying about the ex.
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    Default Re: Destroy and Thaw Frozen Embryos?This

    Quote Originally Posted by oldster View Post
    >>>legally, he absolutely can give up his rights<<<

    No he cannot, they are not his rights to give up, they are the child's rights and there is no lawyer, court or parent that can sign them away

    It is interesting the focus on the rights 'to' the child instead of the rights 'of' the child.

    and enough already, this is conversation predicated on sympathy for one parent over the other, and I was merely trying to create as unsympathetic an image as I could of a theoretical person who is in exactly the same situation, trying to conjure up your worst nightmare custy image. Why anyone would imagine I was referring to the woman is beyond me. If you find that [my wording]offensive, then I apologize
    maybe i took it the wrong way, sorry. but one parent being abusive is just not what's going on here, and would completely change the situation. and the fat part was just flat out body-shaming non sequitur.
    morally however i just dont see how him destroying the embryos they created together in what looked like a vindictive move is any better allowing her to have a child ( which is really important to a lot of people, obviously this woman) and stepping out of the way/giving up rights if he didn't want a child with her. yes it was his legal right to leave his wife after her battle with cancer and destroy her future children but i dont see how that makes him morally better than the alternative

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    Default Re: Destroy and Thaw Frozen Embryos?This

    Again, pay attention to the language here, he can sign away his rights, but he cannot sign away the child's rights, parenting is a never ending legal obligation, no less a moral one.

    Legally you just cannot do it, the rights belong to the child and what lawyer would go into court to give their clients rights away? That is what would have to happen, a court would have to appoint a guardian for the unborn child, who would have to negotiate such a thing. And then be promptly disbarred.

    SO by way of example. Child is born via a surrogate, on the way to the hospital for their first visit, there is a tragic car accident, woman is killed along with her new spouse.

    Who does the state come after for support?

    you betcha, dear old dad.

    Is it not the basic right to decide when and under what conditions you can have children that women have fought for? Why is it that the man does not deserve this right, not to be forced to have children? Can I not say that a woman could give all her unwanted children away?

    I am finding it more than a bit amusing and slightly enlightening that this group of women is treating a child like, well, property.........

    The law is not about what is the nicest thing to happen. Would it be nice if the exes could get along and agree to this? Of course, but if everyone got along we would not have courthouses. We do not know either of these people, and yet this guy is instantly the scumbag, maybe the woman is a screaming psycho. I mean, you are probably right, but if the guy is such a rat bastard, why the hell does she want his kid?

    I'm sorry but this is why they invented adoption, I think a normally well balanced person would do that before even making the phone call.




    Quote Originally Posted by miss.a.p1600 View Post
    He already looks like scum.

    If I were her and I wanted the biological kids that bad I'd offer him this:

    -sign your rights over (you won't be responsible financially or legally)
    -I pay 100% for the kids till age 25 and already have a trust fund worth 100k/kid
    -no guilt trips as the kids will never be aware of you or contact you (like a closed adoption)
    -my spouse will adopt the kids making him father and responsible along with myself
    -I sign NDA never discussing the details with media or anyone and never talk negatively about you

    And voila! Got the biological kids without ever worrying about the ex.

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    Default Re: Destroy and Thaw Frozen Embryos?This

    >>If he loses the case, he testified, he would support the child and become part of his or her life. But he said he feared the prospect of regular interaction with Lee after their highly contentious divorce.<<

    quote from LA times from the ex husband
    >>
    Lee, an anesthesiologist, frequently sobbed during the trial. She has said she would not demand child support from Findley, although a child in California has a legal right to it. And she said she would leave it to Findley to decide how much involvement he wanted with their offspring.

    During an interview, Lee referred to the embryos as "my children, my babies" and stressed that the choices she made before cancer were vastly different from those she would make now.

    After her diagnosis, the Juilliard-trained pianist stopped practicing medicine and turned to music. She now works part-time as an anesthesiologist and performs as a musician. Cancer "completely changed everything," she said.<<

    from the same

    so she is now a musician and not a doctor, apparently single.....not asking for support........you be the judge

    my children, my babies...........

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    Featured Member BambiCutie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Destroy and Thaw Frozen Embryos?This

    Well, the problem is she is not over him obviously giving him the ultimatum of having involvement with "their" offspring. He doesn't want them..so why is she mentioning him if the babies is priority over the subject. I understand it involves him in the matter, but a child grows up to have a mind of their own and nothing is guaranteed. In the end, that is depending on adoption like miss.a said. (He should not be her focus at all) That may of not been her choice at the time, but its pretty clear he doesn't want any children. Kids grow up to ask many questions, they can become confused..at least in my personal position. I wanted to know everything about my dead beat father regardless of him being a loser. It won't be sunshine and rainbows if she chooses to keep the baby, there will be complications.
    Last edited by BambiCutie; 11-23-2015 at 01:20 PM.

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    Default Re: Destroy and Thaw Frozen Embryos?This

    Quote Originally Posted by BambiCutie View Post
    Well, the problem is she is not over him obviously giving him the ultimatum of having involvement with "their" offspring. He doesn't want them..so why is she mentioning him if the babies is priority over the subject. I understand it involves him in the matter, but a child grows up to have a mind of their own and nothing is guaranteed. In the end, that is his decision depending on signing over his rights/adoption like miss.a said. That may of not been her choice at the time, but its pretty clear he doesn't want any children.
    once again, he cannot sign over his responsibilities.

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    Featured Member BambiCutie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Destroy and Thaw Frozen Embryos?This

    No he may not, but he has a voice in this. I am not trying to pin-point a particular thing stating its accurate, but its pretty clear where he stands..which was my point.

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    Default Re: Destroy and Thaw Frozen Embryos?This

    ok, im confused now..do you actually not know that its 100% LEGAL AND POSSIBLE for a man/woman to sign over their parental rights?? if the other legal parent dies, nobody comes after the bio parent..they have signed over ALL RIGHTS/RESPONSIBILITY. the child goes where other orphan children go, foster homes. now, to sign over your rights the other parent has to agree and sometimes the courts want an adoptive father in place, but not always. it is absolutely possible for him to sign over his rights…lol..just to be clear. or am i not understanding something.
    what should have happened is that she should have frozen her eggs without his sperm

    edited to add: nobody is saying he shouldn't be given a choice..he should be! we're just saying it sucks for the woman that she will never be able to have biological children , ever. he may go onto have his own kids with another woman, but she's SOL. so yes i have sympathy for her
    Last edited by simone87; 11-23-2015 at 01:39 PM.

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    Default Re: Destroy and Thaw Frozen Embryos?This

    They are not his rights, they are the child's rights

    were he broke, there is no point and that is the situation you describe, but when one has the means to support a child, you MUST support that child.

    If your child ends up on welfare, they dock your paycheck

    with the advent of DNA testing, there is no escape, and there should not be.

    Imagine if a Rockefeller could convince a 22 year old hottie he knocked up that he could sign away his responsibilities? Where would you come down on that situation? What they live in abject poverty because he had better lawyers?

    AS an example of not being able to sign others rights away, you buy a house with your future ex, get divorced, you agree that he does not have to pay the mortgage. If you default, guess what, the bank comes after him, Do you think the bank says , oh, I see, you have this here paper you signed that says you don't have to pay, that's ok, we will suck wind.

    I think not.

    This[potential]child has a the right to be supported, and if that child ever became a ward of the state there is no document you can sign to avoid responsibility. Not that this 'piece of crap' will do that since he has stated he would be involved in the child's life, he just doesn't want to have kids with his ex wife.

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    Default Re: Destroy and Thaw Frozen Embryos?This

    ok…you can look this up if you'd like, but i have experience with this. if BOTH PARTIES AGREE, one parent can sign over their rights. its not just a "well, i dont wanna pay support so see ya!" type deal. its a "we both agree that the child is better off without you in their life" kinda thing. both bio parents have to agree, and like i said, a lot of times the court wants an adoptive parent in place to take the place of the one exiting. its a very serious and permanent decision, but you absolutely can do it. in fact i personally know a couple who did it.

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    Default Re: Destroy and Thaw Frozen Embryos?This

    You can give up your parental rights but that doesn't free you from paying child support, that is money you owe the KID. Giving up your parental rights just means you get cut out of any decision making process and have no rights to things like visitation. You can't simply sign away money that you owe, that would be a HUGE widely abused loophole for dead beat dads to exploit.
    "Well done. Here are the test results: You are a horrible person. I'm serious, that's what it says: 'A horrible person.' We weren't even testing for that."

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    Default Re: Destroy and Thaw Frozen Embryos?This

    Quote Originally Posted by simone87 View Post
    ok…you can look this up if you'd like, but i have experience with this. if BOTH PARTIES AGREE, one parent can sign over their rights. its not just a "well, i dont wanna pay support so see ya!" type deal. its a "we both agree that the child is better off without you in their life" kinda thing. both bio parents have to agree, and like i said, a lot of times the court wants an adoptive parent in place to take the place of the one exiting. its a very serious and permanent decision, but you absolutely can do it. in fact i personally know a couple who did it.

    right, but as Trem said if the child were in need of support, they would absolutely be able to chase the bio parent. You cannot escape that. If the father is a homeless drunk it just doesn't matter.

    again, the "child's" rights cannot be signed over by a parent

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    Default Re: Destroy and Thaw Frozen Embryos?This

    http://family-law.freeadvice.com/fam...tal-rights.htm. its rare that it is "granted" by the courts, but in the even that it does happen, yes it does mean termination of child support as well as parental decision making
    "When a court approves a termination of parental rights, the parent-child relationship is completely extinguished and all the rights and responsibilities of parenthood are terminated."

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    Default Re: Destroy and Thaw Frozen Embryos?This

    So they agree to a contract that lays out exactly what would happen in case of a divorce and this guy is wrong for enforcing it? Not only that he's a scumbag? But when a woman gets pregnant in the traditional way and decides she wants to terminate the pregnancy it's her choice? Thank God the law only looks at the facts and doesn't rule on emotion. I don't even care about the legality of being able to give up rights. This guy no longer wants a child made from his dna with this woman. That is his choice and he has every right to make that choice as does every woman.

    Yes, I also see the irony in this Oldster.

    ETA oh and he deserves some goons to kick his ass too? Wow let's flip this for a minute....does any woman that chooses an abortion against the will of the father deserve the same?

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