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Thread: Do you notice...

  1. #1
    Veteran Member red.velvet's Avatar
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    Default Do you notice...

    As a sexworker, have you ever noticed how other sexworkers passively aggressively put you down for things that they shouldn't even comment on if they really "don't care" about it?

    Example #1: I have a 2 degrees (one is a STEM degree) and every time I ever mention education in any way around a sexworker who doesn't have a degree, she usually FLIPS out and acts like she hates me. She then goes on to make statements like "at the end of the day, no one cares about a fucking piece of paper, they only care if you're hot!"

    First, a degree is not a piece of paper. It is investment in your future and a ticket to getting 80% of decent jobs out there that REQUIRE a bachelors degree or higher.

    Second, my degree enabled me to learn skills, which is why I'm fluent in 3 almost 4 languages.

    Third, okay but why can't you be really hot AND have a degree? How would that harm you in ANY way? If anything, even if you never use it in any way (doubt it), it would be a safety net.

    Fourth: why. do. they. care. if. they. actually. don't. care? Lol! Its so annoying! Clearly its a threat to these people.

    I mean, I could care less when they talk about all the money they blew on this season's expensive clothing. I never make passive aggressive comments on them doing that because I DON'T ACTUALLY CARE lol. I also find it funny that someone would put me down for spending money on education, when their apartment costs twice the price of mine and that same price difference could have PAID for their tuition for the year.


    Example #2: Sexworkers who get catty about thinness.

    If you aren't thin and don't want to be, who cares? Why does that need to be thrown in my face that not all men like thin women? Great, I like being thin and get complimented on it, so why do you have to passive aggressively make comments about it? I'm sure my DNA has something to do with it, but in all actuality, I'm thin because I cook my own healthy meals at home and I work out.

    Then they go on to argue about how much these 2 factors mean nothing with making money in the adult world, but its simply not true. Take a girl, and she will make more money if she loses weight. Take another girl, and she will also earn even more money if she's educated. That's just how our society is, and lashing out at other people just makes them see your insecurities and reinforces the idea that you care. So annoying lol, but I just laugh to myself with embarrassment for these people.


    Lol! I had to vent. Girls in the vanilla world never ever care about either of these things because they typically already have an education, and they could care less about thinness or are already thin. It just drives me nuts because its so transparent that sexworkers are often highly insecure about these things but pretend like they aren't.


    Anyone else go through this who works in both the vanilla world and sexwork?

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    God/dess audritwo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do you notice...

    Maybe they get angry because they feel you might be bragging about your education and it's putting them down. Sometimes people with a higher education has a tendency to make people who have a lower education level insecure. May it be intentional or not. They may feel like their options were limited and didn't have the privilege or opportunity.





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    Veteran Member red.velvet's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do you notice...

    Quote Originally Posted by audritwo View Post
    Maybe they get angry because they feel you might be bragging about your education?
    It has nothing to do with that. Its clearly an insecurity they have and won't admit to or may not even consciously realize. If they truly didn't care, they wouldn't comment about it.

    If they felt I was bragging, then why do they ALSO brag about buying the latest expensive bag or a whole new wardrobe? The only difference is that I don't care about those things, but they care about mine lol

    Why on earth would it be okay for someone to talk about how they blew thousands of dollars on stuff they won't even wear in a year, but not about an education? I'm not going to censor myself just to not offend people who are clearly jealous about things I have (be it degrees, another job, other income, or ambition)

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    God/dess audritwo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do you notice...

    Well you do care what they think, or you wouldn't of created this thread.

    I'm just playing devil's advocate here, because my sexworker friends don't act like this around me. Maybe you need to distance yourself from materialistic people.





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    Veteran Member red.velvet's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do you notice...

    Quote Originally Posted by audritwo View Post
    Well you do care what they think, or you wouldn't of created this thread.

    I'm just playing devil's advocate here, because my sexworker friends don't act like this around me. Maybe you need to distance yourself from materialistic people.
    Its redundant and annoying and made this thread to ask if others have the same experiences I do

    I'm not really friends with people who are overtly material, but I do come in contact with way too many of them, but that's unavoidable. Such is life

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    Default Re: Do you notice...

    Sometimes the adversity we think is there isn't all that serious. We think it is, but really people are just going off your vibes. I'm getting older and starting to realize that people are people and not everything needs to be analyzed. But yes I too have felt the heat once someone learns I have a college degree. It happens sometimes the moment I speak. The OP said she gets this from other sex workers, I often get it from people of my own race and then gender. "How dare she talk so high and mighty, that bitch aint shit blah blah blah" Same vs Same. It's all the same. I've learned that if I want to get along, then maybe I have to approach some people differently. Because I am educated and know a little something about psychology, I try to put what I've learned to some use. I just get along with people. You don't really need a degree to do that. When I was a bit younger I would rage and snap on fools if they questioned my authenticity. Now I'm a lot calmer and for me it's more important to build people up and inspire them. Once I crossed over into that mindset then talking about my experiences became easier. They aren't as hostile or insecure and are willing to listen. I don't know, I just had to learn how to talk to people.

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    Veteran Member red.velvet's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do you notice...

    Quote Originally Posted by PhatGirlDynomite!!! View Post
    But yes I too have felt the heat once someone learns I have a college degree. It happens sometimes the moment I speak. The OP said she gets this from other sex workers, I often get it from people of my own race and then gender. "How dare she talk so high and mighty, that bitch aint shit blah blah blah" Same vs Same. It's all the same.
    Yes!! This is exactly what I'm talking about! They judge me harsher, and I can already tell by their tone and responses (as well as body language) that they are LOOKING for a reason to dislike or discredit me from the moment I open my mouth. Some will even go as far as to argue with me, which is really strange lol.

    I am not making up their harsh tones and responses in my head because I work in the vanilla work regularly and NO ONE in the vanilla world has those responses. Sexwork vs vanilla responses are like night and day. That's how I know its jealousy or feeling threatened when sexworkers do that, because otherwise they'd have the same neutral (or non) responses that vanilla world people have.

    They make really rude comments too sometimes trying to justify why they don't have a degree. Like:
    1.) "Well if my parents paid for a degree, or I had the money, maybe I would have one too!"
    Nice try, I paid for it myself. Public schools, and especially community colleges, are very cheap. Get a damn roommate or stop buying expensive clothes all the time and you can pay for one too. The minute you argue this though, they just keep going and going and hating you even more so I don't even bother.

    It actually boots my ego whenever someone makes comments like these now because it means I know they value my degree and makes it feel worth it once again.

    2.) Or "I'd never waste my best, hottest years on something so pointless when I could be making money"
    Uhh you just admitted that your late teens and 20s are your hottest years. You work in an industry that relies on your looks. So your money will decline as you become less hot, since you value that... So how is investing in another career path for your future when your money declines, a BAD idea? Lol so strange. These girls seem to think they will all marry rich forever or be an immediately successful entrepreneur the day they want to quit sexwork. That isn't realistic at all, and anyone would do it if it were so easy lol

    I'm not commenting about their ugly clothing they continually show off or how they are spending their money, so I don't know why they are commenting on MY hobby that HAS benefitted me and made me lots of money. Its sheer jealousy lol. I'm glad someone else has experienced it!

    I do know how to talk with and to them, but its like they are perfectly fine with bragging non-stop about everything they buy or their huge spacious apartment or new Mercedes, but the MOMENT I imply I have a degree they lose their shit and see me as an enemy lol

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    Featured Member wish's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do you notice...

    Maybe you're experiencing a lack of maturity and uncouthness in the sex industry and the vanilla world is not as harsh because you're hiding from them. Tell people in the vanilla world about your sex industry ties and how they proceed to treat you. Almost like when rich people interact with poor people. Poor people don't need to know which fork is the salad fork when meeting with their peers but a rich person might laugh to themselves about this making the poor person feel a way. The rich person may not have intended to hurt the others feelings and the poor person may not even know why they're feeling insecure. In short it could be you. I only say that because it sounds like from the tone of this thread that you think you're better than these people you're interacting with.

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    Veteran Member red.velvet's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do you notice...

    Quote Originally Posted by wish View Post
    Maybe you're experiencing a lack of maturity and uncouthness in the sex industry and the vanilla world is not as harsh because you're hiding from them. Tell people in the vanilla world about your sex industry ties and how they proceed to treat you. Almost like when rich people interact with poor people. Poor people don't need to know which fork is the salad fork when meeting with their peers but a rich person might laugh to themselves about this making the poor person feel a way. The rich person may not have intended to hurt the others feelings and the poor person may not even know why they're feeling insecure. In short it could be you. I only say that because it sounds like from the tone of this thread that you think you're better than these people you're interacting with.
    Lol how would I think I'm better? I'm not ranking anything and I really like my own life too much to care about what others are doing. If I didn't like what I was doing, I would change it lol. I'm ultra confident and obsessed with my own interests. I could care less what other people do. I'm not worried about people commenting about my degree, I just find the duality (sexwork vs vanilla responses) very bizarre. If anything, it actually boosts my ego that they care because they are implying the degree has value and is a threat to them or they would be neutral about it.

    The sole reason I don't tell vanilla people about sexwork is because a.) escorting is in many ways illegal, and b.) it doesn't require skills to talk about like dancing would, and is mostly just a lucrative side hobby. I do not dance anymore. I don't care about who knows, its just pointless for them to know. Should I walk around and tell near strangers all about my sex life? No, its unnecessary and pointless lol

    I just made this thread to see if this happens to other people who dually work vanilla and sexwork, which has been the case so far

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    God/dess lynn2009's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do you notice...

    Insecure people never stop trying to validate their own lives. People who didn't go to college vehemently argue it's an expensive, useless piece of paper, people who had to pay for college with loans scream about it was worth it for 'the college experience' whatever, people who have kids later in life day they're the most responsible and financially secure, girls who make a career out of sex work can't believe the rest of us lemmings who work 9-5 for 'peanuts' blah blah blah....

    I suggest you ignore all unsolicited advice and seek it out from people you trust to be honest and respect when you really want and need some guidance.
    "There are different kinds of darkness. There is darkness that frightens, the darkness that soothes, the darkness that is restful. There is the darkness of lovers, and the darkness of assassins. It becomes what the bearer wishes it to be, needs it to be. It is not wholly bad or good."
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    Veteran Member red.velvet's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do you notice...

    Quote Originally Posted by lynn2009 View Post
    Insecure people never stop trying to validate their own lives. People who didn't go to college vehemently argue it's an expensive, useless piece of paper, people who had to pay for college with loans scream about it was worth it for 'the college experience' whatever, people who have kids later in life day they're the most responsible and financially secure, girls who make a career out of sex work can't believe the rest of us lemmings who work 9-5 for 'peanuts' blah blah blah....

    I suggest you ignore all unsolicited advice and seek it out from people you trust to be honest and respect when you really want and need some guidance.
    ^ I don't seek out advice from them, they give their unsolicited opinion. Often times not even to my face, just in front of me so I can hear it. Its often if they overhear a conversation that isn't even directly too them, or "she said" type of gossip that comes back around. This happened non-stop in the strip club when I did dance, for example. School was obviously my hobby or what I liked to spend money on, yet they blab on and on about the their new expensive apartment or outfit.

    A lot of the commenters on this thread are missing the point. The college degree and thin comments were just the two most prominent, but this kind of thing happens with sexworkers all the time, but not once in the vanilla world.

    Another example would be this: Any time I ever had things in common with another sexworker, she would always end up resenting me and then getting angry that it was "her thing" and I couldn't possibly be interested in that too. Territorial over a similar interest or thing I ALSO had BEFORE I met her lol. It makes absolutely no sense because people in the vanilla world NEVER act like that, and you actually bond with people and befriend them over common interests in the vanilla world! Again, another duality between sexworkers vs vanilla.

    For example, I once came in with a coat similar to another dancer, which I didn't know until we were waiting during tip outs at the end of the night. She came right by me, sat in a booth close, and started talking really loudly (so I could hear) about how she's so tired of "dumb bitches" copying everything she does and her clothes. Clearly she was referring to me. HOW WAS I SUPPOSED TO KNOW SHE HAD A SIMILAR COAT AND WOULD ALSO BE WEARING IT TO WORK THAT DAY? I didn't even care about her or know she owned a similar coat! I have NEVER experienced anything close to that in the vanilla world, yet in the sexwork world I saw it happen to other girls at least WEEKLY. It is 100% insecurity.

    That's how I know the put downs and passive aggressiveness I receive over my degree or thinness is out of jealousy and insecurity. I just can't fathom how they don't see that I would get an ego boost from it because they just covertly admitted they see those things as a threat or else they wouldn't make those comments. When you comment about something you hate in an aggressive way, you care too much. When you care too much, it is for a reason because otherwise you'd be neutral instead of trying to hurt someone's feelings (which doesn't work and actually does the opposite because you care) with your tone.

    And I just don't understand why so many sexworkers are insecure over dumb shit? I mean damn, you're making enough money that you can go get a degree or pursue any hobby or interest or diet plan you want! But nope, they have to take it out on other girls they're jealous of who didn't even notice them until they started acting out lol

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    God/dess audritwo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do you notice...

    I think you need to distance yourself from those people even more. They wouldn't give you their unsolicited opinions if you had a ways of communication.





    Quote Originally Posted by Miss_Red View Post
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    Default Re: Do you notice...

    I don't think just because you experienced these things that you can say ALL sex workers are like 'this' and people in vanilla jobs would 'never' act like this. Girls can be bitchy, insecure, defensive, whatever in any setting. There are nice girls in the strip club just like there are bitches in vanilla jobs. I've worked at a lot of clubs over the years and I've met some really sweet girls and I have met some really catty ones... same goes for all of the vanilla jobs I've had and throughout college. I think if you are really that confident then you should just ignore what anyone has to say about you. Who knows if they are really jealous of you and who cares. This is all very petty. Bring headphones to work and listen to music in the dressing room.. problem solved!

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    Default Re: Do you notice...

    ^^ Pretty much agreed. Yes, I've met a lot of sex workers, and even seen it sometimes on here, where girls are overly defensive and catty about fellow sex workers' accomplishments out of insecurity. I've also seen that plenty of times in the vanilla world. There were a couple girls who were friends with my roommates years back who I tried to be cool with, and they actually got shitty with me when I would try to bond with them over shared hobbies. Like, "What? Are you really throwing shade at me for 'sharing' your hobby and trying to talk to you about it? ???I don't get it."

    Insecurity, defensiveness, cattiness, territoriality - they can happen anywhere. You might experience it more from other sex workers who don't have a degree because they feel bad about the fact that you have other options whereas they feel "stuck" because they think they can't do anything else. Girls like that are just trying to make themselves feel better. It's great that you don't personally experience that in the vanilla world, but it definitely happens, generally from girls who may be in similarly "low-class" positions socially speaking, and feel the need to be defensive around those doing better than them or "stealing" what they think makes them unique.
    Don't try to win over the haters. You are not the Jerk Whisperer.

    Your playing small does not serve the world. There is nothing enlightened about shrinking so that other people won't feel insecure around you.






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    Veteran Member red.velvet's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do you notice...

    I've only ever experienced the cattiness in the sexwork world, and its constant. Its almost like many of the girls are addicted to drama and attempting to destroy lives, too. I've had at least 7 vanilla jobs so far including retail jobs years ago, but all the girls I've ever worked with were unbelievably sweet.

    I'm no longer a dancer (I escort) but I am constantly around sexwokers at networking events or meet and greet type of things so I can't avoid them. These things are necessary to attend in order to find high roller clients. Its kind of a sugar daddy type of thing I guess you could call it.

    I can't help but think that an overwhelming number of sexworkers are emotionally or mentally unstable.

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    Featured Member Tourdefranzia's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do you notice...

    Yep. That's why I make up a persona at work. I use the same persona for everyone I encounter, customer or other women or staff, that way I don't have to worry about others judgements. It's not really me they are being catty about, it's the role they are being catty about.

    The mental distance is important for my own well being. It is pretty rare for me to develop friendships at the club. Sometimes another woman and I just hit it off, but mostly I just practice friendly detachment with the other women I work with. My path is different than theirs, so I don't feel like it is my place to judge. While at the same time, if they are judging "me" it isn't genuine because I don't let them in at all. This is like an emotional firewall that allows me to just go about my business.

    *I don't have a degree. I am well read, though, and people with degrees assume that I'm educated, but I never claim to have finished college.

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    Featured Member wednesday86's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do you notice...

    It's because you're better than everyone else and everyone is jealous of how smart, skinny, pretty and PERFECT you are! Duh!

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    Default Re: Do you notice...

    Quote Originally Posted by red.velvet View Post

    I can't help but think that an overwhelming number of sexworkers are emotionally or mentally unstable.
    I have to agree with Wednesday. Why is it so hard to ignore them?
    "There are different kinds of darkness. There is darkness that frightens, the darkness that soothes, the darkness that is restful. There is the darkness of lovers, and the darkness of assassins. It becomes what the bearer wishes it to be, needs it to be. It is not wholly bad or good."
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    Default Re: Do you notice...

    People in my family get those kinds of reactions b/c we're very focused people who came from a lower class background. Sadly many people see someone else's successes as a trigger to reflect upon their own failures.

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    Default Re: Do you notice...

    I literally do not interact with the dancers at work at ALL. If they say something to me, I'll respond neutrally and in a way that doesn't advance the conversation ("Oh? Mm-hmm." "That's sweet of you to say." "I hear that!"). I don't make eye contact with anyone when I show up (not in a bitchy way - when I enter the dressing room, I walk in with a vaguely positive look on my face, avoid eye contact, plop my stuff down, and start getting ready). I hardly know the names of the girls with whom I work on a weekly basis.

    I tune all of it out completely. This is a skill that took me years to learn. I only talk to customers and staff (DJ, security).

    You have to completely divorce your own thoughts and opinions from what's going on around you in the dressing room. You should have the same level of detachment with your fellow dancers that you have with customers (I consider having a persona as a type of detachment). If you haven't released your pride and ego yet (the "I'm a dancer, too, but I have a degree, dammit!" attitude), that's something to work on.

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    Veteran Member red.velvet's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do you notice...

    Quote Originally Posted by lynn2009 View Post
    I have to agree with Wednesday. Why is it so hard to ignore them?
    Because many of them I know personally. In major cities, its kind of expected to network (especially if you want to reap the benefits of networking like getting invited to exclusive meet and greets for generous clients) so a lot of these girls already know me already and I can't avoid any of them if I want to reap the rewards or even main good status as an escort.

    Cities like LA, Miami, NYC all heavily rely on networking to get into elite things that I otherwise could not. So benefit outweighs any damage. I have no desire to become famous like a lot of these girls, but I will gladly use their contacts for my own benefit lol.

    I am not bothered by anything they do or say, its just annoying and strange that they do the things I listed above when I have never once encountered any of this in the vanilla world. Even on this forum, I see it happening lol.

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    Default Re: Do you notice...

    Quote Originally Posted by charlie61 View Post
    I literally do not interact with the dancers at work at ALL. If they say something to me, I'll respond neutrally and in a way that doesn't advance the conversation ("Oh? Mm-hmm." "That's sweet of you to say." "I hear that!"). I don't make eye contact with anyone when I show up (not in a bitchy way - when I enter the dressing room, I walk in with a vaguely positive look on my face, avoid eye contact, plop my stuff down, and start getting ready). I hardly know the names of the girls with whom I work on a weekly basis.

    I tune all of it out completely. This is a skill that took me years to learn. I only talk to customers and staff (DJ, security).

    You have to completely divorce your own thoughts and opinions from what's going on around you in the dressing room. You should have the same level of detachment with your fellow dancers that you have with customers (I consider having a persona as a type of detachment). If you haven't released your pride and ego yet (the "I'm a dancer, too, but I have a degree, dammit!" attitude), that's something to work on.
    I'm not a dancer. I am an escort who lives in a major city where networking is essential in order to get invited to events where I meet wealthy clients I wouldn't otherwise meet. I would do that if I were a dancer though.

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    Default Re: Do you notice...

    Quote Originally Posted by Tourdefranzia View Post
    It's not really me they are being catty about, it's the role they are being catty about.
    Exactly! But at the same time, how people process things is seeing you as your attributes. Aside from looks, your interests, degree, career(s), and priorities are pretty much all anyone judges anyone else by so its unavoidable.

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    Default Re: Do you notice...

    Sure, you have to interact with them, but do you need to bring up the fact that you have a degree? Why not just... not? It might be relevant when talking to high-end clients who like a more educated girl, but is it necessary to tell all the other sex workers you interact with? We can dissect their motives, insecurities, and mental stability/instability all day, but bottom line - if you need these girls to think relatively fondly of you so you can continue to do business with them, and you "always" experience them being shitty to you when you bring up a specific topic, it would probably be in your best interest to just keep the topic off the table or respond with a vague, neutral reaction, like charlie said, if someone brings up the topic of education first.

    I used to work with a girl who always went on and on in the SC dressing room about how she didn't need to strip, it was just side money, she had just wandered into the SC one night with her bf, said "That looks easy" so decided to do it, blah blah blah, bottom line: everyone got an attitude from her that she thought she wasn't a "typical stripper" and better than everyone who "needed" to be there. It made her really unpleasant to talk to, even if you weren't necessarily insecure about the fact that you were a stripper for primary income. I'm not saying that's exactly what you're doing, but the ultimate take away is: Why was she even bringing it up? It clearly wasn't to bond with us. Nobody cared why she was a stripper or was concerned with what else she did/could be doing outside the SC. In the strip club, you're a stripper. At an escort meet-and-greet, you're an escort. Nobody really needs to know what else you have going on, unless you're trying to schmooze a well-educated client. And, like I said before, if you're always getting shit about a certain topic, and you want these girls to work pleasantly with you - well, then why not stop bringing up a topic that's gonna make them flip out and not like you?

    If other girls are randomly commenting on your thinness, just calmly deter. If they say "Not all guys like thin girls" just nod and say "That's true" and change the topic. Not everything needs to be a head-to-head battle and dissection of "Well, I've experienced different" when someone says something you don't 100% agree with. Diplomacy is really the best course of action when dealing with work colleagues, regardless of industry.
    Don't try to win over the haters. You are not the Jerk Whisperer.

    Your playing small does not serve the world. There is nothing enlightened about shrinking so that other people won't feel insecure around you.






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    Moderator charlie61's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do you notice...

    ^Or, if it does come up, mention it in a self-deprecating and humorous way.

    (OP - sorry, I didn't notice that you were an escort! )

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