Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 29

Thread: Strippers Do Not Want To Be Employees! - Read This - Say No To Minimum Wage Lawsuits

  1. #1
    Banned
    Joined
    Apr 2016
    Posts
    2
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post

    Default Strippers Do Not Want To Be Employees! - Read This - Say No To Minimum Wage Lawsuits

    Many dancers regret getting involved in minimum wage lawsuits. Before you file get the real
    facts from an attorney who will tell you the truth about these frivolous law suits trying to put strip
    clubs out of business.

    Recent events have exposed just how imbalanced the results of these cases have been, with their attorneys getting the vast majority of the benefits of these cases, and comparatively minimal dancer’s awards, and, even worse for the dancers, exposing them to having to provide personal financial records and sworn statements that reveal frequently questionable income tax and other personal issues about individual dancers that they would rather not have to admit, especially “under oath.”

    NO DANCER WANTS TO BE AN EMPLOYEE
    The following is an illustrative description of the characteristics of an “Employee.”
    • The Club can require you to work a schedule set for you by the Club for a minimum of 40 hours per week.
    • The Club can require you to work one full year before taking a vacation.
    • You may be required to do general cleaning in areas of the Club during your shift and before leaving.
    • The Club can fire you and bring possible criminal charges against you for overcharging patrons.
    • You will be paid the minimum wage provided by the law, will get reduced minimum wage, currently $8.05 per hour in Florida, or for tip credit where allowed, and be paid like wait staff (Currently $5.03 per hour, or as amended by Congress, or as defined by applicable state law).
    • You will be paid for overtime (1 ½ times the normal hourly rate) for hours worked in excess of forty (40) hours per week. The Club will decide whether you are allowed to work overtime.
    • You will be given an unpaid one-half (1/2) hour meal break, if you work a continuous period of 8 hours.
    • You will be given paid rest breaks, during times authorized by Club management, at a rate of 15 minutes for each 4 hours worked, or major fraction thereof.
    • You will be required to share tips (not “dance performance fees”) with other Club employees, where the law allows.
    • You will be required to turn over to the Club ALL “Performance Fees” or “dance fees” which are charged to the customers for couch, table, VIP and private dances (excluding tips or gratuities which you receive in excess of the posted or customary dance performance prices).
    • The Club will have controls over you which they regularly exert over all of the employees.
    • The Club may require you to sell drink quotas, however you shall not solicit the sale of any beverages.
    • You may be required to fill in for ANY other employee who does not show up for work no matter what his or her job responsibilities may be, i.e. waitress, door person, janitorial, etc.
    • The Club may terminate your employment at any time without cause, and without any prior notice or warning.
    • The Club can require you to work overtime as needed by the Club.
    • The Club can require you to wear costumes, make-up and hair styles selected by the Club (note: If the Club decided to require you wear a uniform or other accessories distinctive as to style, color, or material, any such uniforms will be furnished to you – without cost – by the Club, and if such uniforms or accessories require a special cleaning process, and cannot be easily laundered by you, the Club will clean such uniform, as necessary, for you without cost.
    • The Club can require you to produce a required quota of dances or LOSE YOUR JOB.
    • The Club can require you to undergo training, including choreography, under the direction of the Club.
    • The Club can require you to dance for customers selected by the Club.
    • The Club can require you to dance to music chosen by the Club.
    • The Club can require you to dance in a manner directed by the Club.
    • The Club can require you to attend employee meetings along with all other Club employees.
    • The Club can require you to perform only at this Club or at Clubs specifically approved by the management of this Club.
    • The Club can require you to enter contests at any Club as management so desires.

    EXCEPT FOR VERY HIGH PROFILE FEDERAL CASES ALL LAWSUITS AND SETTLEMENTS ARE AVAILABLE IN PUBLIC RECORDS. ALL OF THE PRIOR MINIMUM WAGE LAWSUITS FILED BY DANCERS ARE AVAILABLE FOR PUBLIC VIEW ON THE INTERNET

    Pacer.org provides: Public Access to Court Electronic Records (PACER) is an electronic public access service that allows users to obtain case and docket information online from federal appellate, district, and bankruptcy courts, and the PACER Case Locator. PACER is provided by the Federal Judiciary in keeping with its commitment to providing public access to court information via a centralized service

    Dancers Real Name Not Your "Stage Name" Is Forever In Public Records On The Internet For Everyone To See! - Dancers Under Oath Will Have To Testify How Much Money They Made Dancing At The Club – Hello IRS!!
    Attorneys Get The Gold Mine - Dancers Get The Shaft!

    WHAT CAN HAPPEN TO A DANCER INVOLVED IN A MINIMUM WAGE LAW SUIT
    1. If you have not been honest in paying your taxes, there is the potential for both civil and criminal penalties
    2. Your IRS Tax Returns will definitely be subpoenaed.
    3. Your phone records, text, email, social network posts, are all subject to being subpoenaed.
    4. No more “cash receipts” of the moneys independently earned at the end of a dance shift.
    5. As an employee, a Dancer will likely paid by check every 1 to 2 Weeks, likely at minimum wage, with up to 20%-35% of your minimum wage or other income being withheld for taxes.
    6. As an additional concern, if a Dancer that becomes an employee and starts paying taxes appears to have been negligent in their tax responsibilities in prior years, the IRS can require interest and penalties for any previously unpaid taxes. The IRS has up to 3 years to audit your tax return and 10 years to collect any tax due.
    7. Any welfare assistance or other government entitlement programs that a Dancer has utilized while not divulging dancer income can be exposed and possibly cancelled.
    8. If any dancer received any welfare assistance or other government entitlement program at the same time they were earning money from dancing, the failure to declare the dance income could result in a charge of “welfare fraud,” or some equally troubling experience.
    9. Any Dancer will likely be the subject of a deposition, a proceeding where the Club’s attorney can ask you a number of questions, under oath, about every aspect of your job history, your family structure, any source of income, and every aspect of your personal finances, expenditures and where and how you spend your money.
    10. Any Dancer that becomes an employee will now be another official taxpayer, subject to the same scrutiny and likelihood of an IRS audit as every other taxpayer and wage earner.



    DISCLAIMER- ABOSLUTELY NO STATEMENT OR ANY INFORMATION IS TO BE CONSIDERED TAX ADVICE OR LEGAL ADVICE, IN ANY WAY! No Rendering of Advice. The information contained within this website or graphics is provided for informational purposes only and is not intended to substitute for obtaining accounting, tax, LEGAL or financial advice from a professional accountant. Presentation of the information via the Internet is not intended to create, and receipt does not constitute, an accountant-client relationship, or any attorney-client relationship. Internet subscribers, users and online readers are advised not to act upon this information without seeking the service of a professional accountant or an attorney of their choice. Any U.S. federal tax information contained in this website is not intended to be used for the purpose of avoiding penalties under U.S. federal tax law. Accuracy of Information. While we use reasonable efforts to furnish accurate and up-to-date information, we do not warrant that any information contained in or made available through this website is accurate, complete, reliable, current or error-free. We assume no liability or responsibility for any errors or omissions in the content of this website. Disclaimer of Warranties and Limitations of Liability. This website or graphic is provided on an "as is" and "as available" basis. Use of this website is at your own risk. We and our contributors disclaim all warranties. Neither we nor our contributors shall be liable for any damages of any kind with or for the use of this website. Links to Third Party Websites. For your convenience, this website may contain hyperlinks to websites and servers maintained by third parties. We do not control, evaluate, endorse or guarantee content found in those sites. We do not assume any responsibility or liability for the actions, products, services and content of these sites or the parties that operate them. Your use of such sites is entirely at your own risk.
    Last edited by tampadancers; 04-03-2016 at 11:21 AM.

  2. #2
    Senior Member
    Joined
    Oct 2015
    Posts
    106
    Thanks
    137
    Thanked 219 Times in 69 Posts

    Default Re: Strippers Do Not Want To Be Employees! - Read This - Say No To Minimum Wage Lawsu

    If you don't want to get hit with a misclassification lawsuit, then kindly treat your dancers well enough that they won't be motivated to change the rules. I'm sure you are well aware that as independent contractors, dancers often face poor working conditions, abuse by staff, draconian rules, and massive stage fees and dance cuts. When their situations are worse than what you describe above (much of which, by the way, is ridiculous and you are only putting in as a scare tactic), then they will sue. So be nice to them, treat them like actual independent contractors instead of slapping them with dumb rules such that they might as well be employees, and let them keep most of their money rather than devising ways to get your fat hands on every cent they earn if possible. Keep the status quo palatable. Otherwise, you may well find that dancers are motivated to become employees, considering that despite that potential downsides you have outlined so fetchingly above, employees have far greater protections under the law than independent contractors.


  3. #3
    Senior Member
    Joined
    Oct 2015
    Posts
    106
    Thanks
    137
    Thanked 219 Times in 69 Posts

    Default Re: Strippers Do Not Want To Be Employees! - Read This - Say No To Minimum Wage Lawsu

    Just for fun:

    ALL DANCER SHOULD WANT TO BE EMPLOYEES
    • The Club isn't required to make you work a schedule or a minimum number of hours if you are an employee. On the other hand, many clubs now require their independent contractor dancers to do one or both.
    • The Club can provide you with paid vacation time that accrues every paycheck. (Also sick days, FMLA, SSDI, paid pregnancy leave and other time off.)
    • If you are fired or quit for good cause (unfair work rules, illness, unfair quotas etc.) you can collect unemployment insurance.
    • If you are injured on the job, you can collect worker's compensation insurance.
    • You will not be required to do general cleaning if your employer wants to keep you as an employee.
    • The Club can fire you and bring possible criminal charges against you for overcharging patrons whether you are an employee or an independent contractor.
    • You will be paid the minimum wage provided by the law, or more if the Club's competitors are paying more. You will be paid for every minute you spend in the club.
    • You will be paid for overtime (1 ½ times the normal hourly rate) for hours worked in excess of forty (40) hours per week or if you work more than eight hours a day.
    • If you are an employee, your employer is required to provide you with health insurance.
    • You will be given a paid or unpaid one-half (1/2) hour meal break if you work a continuous period of 8 hours.
    • You will be given paid rest breaks, during times authorized by Club management, at a rate of 15 minutes for each 4 hours worked, or major fraction thereof.
    • You may or may not be required to share tips (not “dance performance fees”) with other Club employees, where the law allows. Managers cannot share or take a portion of your tips.
    • You may or may not be required to turn over to the Club ALL “Performance Fees” or “dance fees” which are charged to the customers for couch, table, VIP and private dances (excluding tips or gratuities which you receive in excess of the posted or customary dance performance prices). It is possible these fees will be considered gratuities, in which case the club may be prohibited from taking a cut of them.
    • The Club may have some limited controls over you which they regularly exert over all employees and independent contractors.
    • Some Clubs require you to sell drink quotas whether you are an employee or an independent contractor.
    • Some clubs may require you to fill in for ANY other employee who does not show up for work no matter what his or her job responsibilities may be, i.e. waitress, door person, janitorial, etc., unless you are sick or have negotiated not to work at particular times. In some states (CA), if you are on call, you are entitled to the minimum wage during the time that you may be called in.
    • The Club may terminate you as an independent contractor for any reason at any time without cause or notice, even based on age, disability, pregnancy, color, religion, citizenship, etc. As an employee, you have job protections provided by state and federal discrimination laws, in addition to FMLA and the pregnancy discrimination act.
    • The Club can require you to work overtime as needed by the Club as indepndent contractor or as an employee, but as an employee they must pay you time and a half.
    • Many Clubs require you to wear costumes, make-up and hair styles selected by the Club even as independent contractor.
    • The Club can require you to produce a quota of dances or lose your job as a independent contractor.
    • The Club can require you to undergo training, including choreography, under the direction of the Club, but you will be paid for training if you an employee.
    • Independent contractors can be required to dance for customers selected by the Club.
    • Independent contractors can be required to dance to music chosen by the Club.
    • Independent contractors can be required to dance in a manner directed by the Club.
    • The Club can require you to attend employee meetings along with all other Club employees, which you will be paid for if you are an employee.
    • The Club can require you to perform only at this Club or at Clubs specifically approved by the management of this Club even as an independent contractor.
    • The Club can require you to enter contests at any Club as management so desires as either an employee or and independent contractor.

    As an employee, you have the right to strike if your manager does something unfair or reprehensible. You have the right to boycott. You have the right to negotiate better working conditions. And you have the right to form a union. As an independent contractor you exempt from most laws, including sick day laws, family medical leave laws, anti discrimination laws. And on top you are eligible for health insurance, unemployment insurance, disability insurance, and paid pregnancy leave (in many states).

    DISCLAIMER- ABOSLUTELY NO STATEMENT OR ANY INFORMATION IS TO BE CONSIDERED TAX ADVICE OR LEGAL ADVICE, IN ANY WAY! No Rendering of Advice. The information contained within this website or graphics is provided for informational purposes only and is not intended to substitute for obtaining accounting, tax, LEGAL or financial advice from a professional accountant. Presentation of the information via the Internet is not intended to create, and receipt does not constitute, an accountant-client relationship, or any attorney-client relationship. Internet subscribers, users and online readers are advised not to act upon this information without seeking the service of a professional accountant or an attorney of their choice. Any U.S. federal tax information contained in this website is not intended to be used for the purpose of avoiding penalties under U.S. federal tax law. Accuracy of Information. While we use reasonable efforts to furnish accurate and up-to-date information, we do not warrant that any information contained in or made available through this website is accurate, complete, reliable, current or error-free. We assume no liability or responsibility for any errors or omissions in the content of this website. Disclaimer of Warranties and Limitations of Liability. This website or graphic is provided on an "as is" and "as available" basis. Use of this website is at your own risk. We and our contributors disclaim all warranties. Neither we nor our contributors shall be liable for any damages of any kind with or for the use of this website. Links to Third Party Websites. For your convenience, this website may contain hyperlinks to websites and servers maintained by third parties. We do not control, evaluate, endorse or guarantee content found in those sites. We do not assume any responsibility or liability for the actions, products, services and content of these sites or the parties that operate them. Your use of such sites is entirely at your own risk.

  4. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to tigershoes For This Useful Post:


  5. #4
    Veteran Member
    Joined
    Jan 2014
    Posts
    622
    Thanks
    1,548
    Thanked 2,129 Times in 817 Posts

    Default Re: Strippers Do Not Want To Be Employees! - Read This - Say No To Minimum Wage Lawsu

    I think clubs are getting sued because they ARE doing shit like that. Most Hampton roads va clubs write your schedule for you and you dont get a say. If clubs would treat their dancers as independent contractors they wouldn't keep getting hit with lawsuits. I'm surprised the VA ones haven't been sued yet.

  6. The Following 9 Users Say Thank You to KaraLynn For This Useful Post:


  7. #5
    God/dess Selina M's Avatar
    Joined
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Omicron Persei 8
    Posts
    4,508
    Thanks
    12,529
    Thanked 13,934 Times in 3,720 Posts

    Default Re: Strippers Do Not Want To Be Employees! - Read This - Say No To Minimum Wage Lawsu

    I bet $20 this is a club owner/lawyer hoping to dissuade girls from suing him.
    "People jack off with the left hand and point with the right."

    "You can check out any time you like, but you can never leave."

  8. The Following 10 Users Say Thank You to Selina M For This Useful Post:


  9. #6
    Senior Member
    Joined
    Oct 2015
    Posts
    106
    Thanks
    137
    Thanked 219 Times in 69 Posts

    Default Re: Strippers Do Not Want To Be Employees! - Read This - Say No To Minimum Wage Lawsu

    ^^^ Most definitely. I wonder if it was written by the lawyers of Deja Vu, Spearmint Rhino or some other chain. The big fishes are likely to be the most aware of their vulnerabilities. Doesn't seem to inspire most of them to treat dancers any better though, the go-to is fear and intimidation tactics like the ones above and they must have their backs against the wall before they will make concessions.

  10. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to tigershoes For This Useful Post:


  11. #7
    Veteran Member Candycups's Avatar
    Joined
    Oct 2014
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    233
    Thanks
    234
    Thanked 501 Times in 172 Posts
    My Mood
    Cheerful

    Default Re: Strippers Do Not Want To Be Employees! - Read This - Say No To Minimum Wage Lawsu

    You know, I read an interesting piece of writing today about how the wealthy ruling class has maintained power over the centuries by consistently keeping the poor class hating, fearing, and distrusting each other so they're constantly distracted and fighting over the crumbs, or more, actively defending the side of society actively passing legislature that continues to further their oppression. All that, rather than pooling together (since, you know, the poor have consistently out numbered the rich several times over) and enacting change that would level the playing field for everyone.

    Neat that you're employing the same tactics to paint the lawyers in a dark and evil light so that dancers will leap to the club's defense against them and actively "vote," so to speak, for the continued oppression from the party currently abusing them. If the outnumbering party is divided, at least they're not all united, right?

  12. The Following 7 Users Say Thank You to Candycups For This Useful Post:


  13. #8
    Senior Member
    Joined
    Oct 2015
    Posts
    106
    Thanks
    137
    Thanked 219 Times in 69 Posts

    Default Re: Strippers Do Not Want To Be Employees! - Read This - Say No To Minimum Wage Lawsu

    Quote Originally Posted by Candycups View Post
    You know, I read an interesting piece of writing today about how the wealthy ruling class has maintained power over the centuries by consistently keeping the poor class hating, fearing, and distrusting each other so they're constantly distracted and fighting over the crumbs, or more, actively defending the side of society actively passing legislature that continues to further their oppression. All that, rather than pooling together (since, you know, the poor have consistently out numbered the rich several times over) and enacting change that would level the playing field for everyone.

    Neat that you're employing the same tactics to paint the lawyers in a dark and evil light so that dancers will leap to the club's defense against them and actively "vote," so to speak, for the continued oppression from the party currently abusing them. If the outnumbering party is divided, at least they're not all united, right?
    ^^^ That's a good article. I was just reading A People's History of the United States by Howard Zinn, where he has several chapters on the birth of the labor movement and socialism. When you look at our history from a bird's eye view, you can see clearly that our divisions of race and national origin have prevented the working classes, time and again, from effectively mobilizing against the capitalists who take advantage of them for profit. There have been times when people were able to somewhat put aside those differences, and when they did this, they united in large enough numbers around common goals to make a significant impact. This has never been easy, though, especially because different sub-groups of the working class often have initial objectives that are somewhat incompatible.

    I agree that the person who wrote the OP is trying to use the fact that attorneys gets a share of whatever is paid to the dancers (because they put in months of hard work, and this is their livelihood) to undermine dancers' trust in them.

  14. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to tigershoes For This Useful Post:


  15. #9
    God/dess lynn2009's Avatar
    Joined
    Dec 2012
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    3,147
    Thanks
    8,922
    Thanked 7,163 Times in 2,493 Posts

    Default Re: Strippers Do Not Want To Be Employees! - Read This - Say No To Minimum Wage Lawsu

    Quote Originally Posted by Candycups View Post
    You know, I read an interesting piece of writing today about how the wealthy ruling class has maintained power over the centuries by consistently keeping the poor class hating, fearing, and distrusting each other so they're constantly distracted and fighting over the crumbs, or more, actively defending the side of society actively passing legislature that continues to further their oppression. All that, rather than pooling together (since, you know, the poor have consistently out numbered the rich several times over) and enacting change that would level the playing field for everyone.
    Another good article about this
    http://www.ifyouonlynews.com/politic...-wage-whiners/
    "There are different kinds of darkness. There is darkness that frightens, the darkness that soothes, the darkness that is restful. There is the darkness of lovers, and the darkness of assassins. It becomes what the bearer wishes it to be, needs it to be. It is not wholly bad or good."
    - The Court of Mist and Fury

  16. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to lynn2009 For This Useful Post:


  17. #10
    Senior Member
    Joined
    Oct 2015
    Posts
    106
    Thanks
    137
    Thanked 219 Times in 69 Posts

    Default Re: Strippers Do Not Want To Be Employees! - Read This - Say No To Minimum Wage Lawsu

    Quote Originally Posted by lynn2009 View Post
    This is excellent. And as for the other argument against raising the minimum wage—that doing so would drive up prices—that is only true if the people at the top of the food chain refuse to take even a modest reduction in salaries and profits to shareholders. And why should they not? Why do executives who make millions of dollars per year need to take millions in bonuses on top? Why do the rich families who own the corporations need to make every possible cent from them, rather than merely making most of what is available? Why is it more important for them to be extra-rich than for the people at the very bottom to make a living wage?

    Not to mention that when poor people have more money available, their extra dollars usually go right back into the economy in the form of spending on necessities and items they weren't able to buy before.

  18. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to tigershoes For This Useful Post:


  19. #11
    Veteran Member Candycups's Avatar
    Joined
    Oct 2014
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    233
    Thanks
    234
    Thanked 501 Times in 172 Posts
    My Mood
    Cheerful

    Default Re: Strippers Do Not Want To Be Employees! - Read This - Say No To Minimum Wage Lawsu

    After reading the website in question... a lot of the fear mongering seems to be based on the assumption we don't pay taxes or keep accurate financial records. Obviously not everybody does that, especially at first, but that's more a personal concern than an industry concern.

    Saying "you're definitely doing something illegal, and filing a lawsuit against OUR illicit behavior will bring that to light. But if you DON'T file a lawsuit, you can continue your illicit behavior unpunished, and, even though our illicit behavior directly effects and harms you, so can we. So how about we both forget about the law and continue on our merry illegal ways, yeah?" ...*isn't exactly* an ideal debate tactic. Probably not something you want representing you or whoever's paying for that site in question. If anything, it looks a little like blackmail. The moment someone comes forward that can't be blackmailed, your "argument" falls apart at the seams.

    What happens when a dancer at the end of her career comes forward who's kept meticulous, honest records and doesn't mind being "outed" as an erotic entertainer? Suddenly none of those terrifying "points" apply to her and she's left with all the actual reasons for why other dancers would benefit from legal attention being shown upon the clubs/industry. Maybe they can't speak up out of fear of unemployment (which is a shitty reason -- if your employer is doing something illegal, you should absolutely not need to worry about being blacklisted from half the industry for speaking out. That looks shady a/f for all clubs involved) or because they don't want people knowing what they do for a living (Though, to be fair, if more people "came out," it could help normalize sex work to the point of eliminating societal stigma for the sex workers a bit, enough that it wouldn't be something to deny someone a job over. Encouraging women to stay silent about it only serves to further the stigma so you can continue to use that as a reason to deter dancers from filing lawsuits. It's a silencing technique abusers use on victims all the time, in a variety of relationships and situations. Again, probably not something you want to use to represent you) so the dancers who don't have to worry about that might come forward and speak on their behalf. For the dancers to whom your stated "reasons" don't apply, what actual logic do you offer them?

    Keep in mind, of course, that dancers aren't the only ones liable for an audit. If your club comes to attention, no doubt there'll be some happy fun times with the IRS for you, too. Especially since clubs have ridiculously more potential and power in the game of laundering money than individual dancers do. Yeah, if any dancer's breaking the law, she'll get a slap on the wrist and be forced to correct the wrong... but that'll be relative pennies compared to the consequences a club might suffer if there's some interesting flaw in their records.

    In short, everyone working a job in the US should be paying taxes anyway. Those who don't are making their own choices, but they're doing so knowing full well that they are breaking the law. They aren't representative of the whole, or even the majority. Your tenth bulletin point, "Any performer that becomes an employee will now be another official taxpayer, subject to the same scrutiny and likelihood of an IRS audit as every other taxpayer and wage earner." is a little sketchy because it implies that independent contractors aren't already "official taxpayers," and that as long as they don't file a lawsuit, they won't have to be.

    Seeing as this site's whole purpose seems to be offering advice (Yes, I know, I know, after all that legal advice and whatnot, I did read the disclaimer at the bottom that allowed you to offer all that questionable "information" in the first place) about lawsuits, it might be in your best interest to edit it so it at least appears to advocate actually legal behavior. As it is, the whole foundation of your argument is the assumption that any dancer filing a suit is guilty of illicit behavior themselves. Instead of encouraging them to right their wrong ways and pursue legal courses of action in the future, you blatantly encourage them to keep up their illicit joy ride... as long as they don't call any attention to yours.



    EDIT:

    Clearly, dancing in a Gentlemen’s Club is quite different than toiling in the hot sun, picking grapes for pennies a day.
    So is sitting on your ass in an air conditioned office and an ergonomic chair all day. And those guys can make more than farm laborers -- are you suggesting we knock down their pay to reflect the level of sweaty labor they put in? Should all office workers be exempt from the minimum wage as well?
    Last edited by Candycups; 04-02-2016 at 10:15 PM.

  20. The Following 7 Users Say Thank You to Candycups For This Useful Post:


  21. #12
    Veteran Member Candycups's Avatar
    Joined
    Oct 2014
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    233
    Thanks
    234
    Thanked 501 Times in 172 Posts
    My Mood
    Cheerful

    Default Re: Strippers Do Not Want To Be Employees! - Read This - Say No To Minimum Wage Lawsu

    It should also be noted that, as employees, dancers would probably be safer from, or in the case of, audits from the IRS. At least then they would have actual pay stubs from an employer to show as proof of income. As things are now, we keep our own records and, no matter how meticulous, short of getting signed receipts from each customer, the IRS has to take our word for it. Which also opens the door for them to find doubt in our claimed income and decide, for one reason or another, that we instead made some other amount that they find more reasonable, and we either need to roll over and accept it or spend butt loads of time and money contesting it.

    Paying taxes shouldn't be framed as asking for an audit. Being on a lease for an apartment or house, having multiple hotel stays attached to your name, gym memberships, spa treatments, shopper loyalty cards, buying things with a debit card, owning a car or pet registered to you, or nice clothes/makeup/shoes/jewelry and posting pictures/posts indicative of your lifestyle on social media... being well fed and obviously not a starving unemployed hobo... all of these things without sufficient, or *any*, reported income... *those* actions are the ones that'll flag you for an audit. But if you have an employer that gives you pay stubs every pay period and a W-2 at the end of the year, where literally all you need to do is copy that information down onto your tax return at the end of the year... yeah. Unless you're claiming a suspiciously high number of deductions or dependents, or you have other unclaimed income on the side, you're probably not going to get audited. After filing as an independent contractor, filing taxes as an employee is eeeeeasy. And a *lot* lower risk.

  22. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Candycups For This Useful Post:


  23. #13
    Featured Member jasmine22's Avatar
    Joined
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    1,131
    Thanks
    818
    Thanked 1,258 Times in 470 Posts
    My Mood
    Cool

    Default Re: Strippers Do Not Want To Be Employees! - Read This - Say No To Minimum Wage Lawsu

    Am I the only one who always felt that dancers should be paid to come to work? I think it's really crazy to be forced to pay fees and survive off tips....
    Earn $$$ from sexting and phone calls:
    https://www.sextpanther.com/apply?id=3508
    https://www.niteflirt.com/pid/33134642

    Get paid daily to cam
    https://cammodelpay.com/ref?page=&ca...Token=MTEwMzI=

    Get more fans/make $ posting pics you already have:
    https://onlyfans.com/?ref=61044060



  24. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to jasmine22 For This Useful Post:


  25. #14
    Senior Member
    Joined
    Oct 2015
    Posts
    106
    Thanks
    137
    Thanked 219 Times in 69 Posts

    Default Re: Strippers Do Not Want To Be Employees! - Read This - Say No To Minimum Wage Lawsu

    Candycups, if I could thank your post twice then I would! I didn't realize that his site based its argument on what might happen if they take a look at your tax records.

    First, as long as the dancer reports income that covers her obvious expenses, how would anyone become aware of a discrepancy? Most dancers do not keep records. Do clubs? Can a given club go back for even the past year and say that their records show Kelly giving 2000 lapdances, from which she must have made more money than she reported?

    Let's say that they can. Unless they're sure that they can beat the misclassification lawsuit, it is most definitely against their interests to report Kelly. Should they lose the suit, and have to classify her as an employee, they will owe an ~8% payroll tax on every dollar she earned. The higher her income, the more they pay in back taxes.

    It costs them nothing to use this as an intimidation tactic up front, but when they're actually being sued and know that they will be paying back taxes for not just Kelly, but every dancer who's worked at the club if they lose, they are not going to want to research their dancers' actual incomes and triumphantly declare to the IRS that these incomes are actually twice what was claimed. It's true that if they are correct, the IRS pays them 15% of the taxes the dancer owed—but this is not going to cover the 8% they simultaneously owe on her entire income.

    In addition, a dancer may come out ahead even if it is proved that she underreported her income. She paid the ~15% self-employment tax on the income she did report. As an employee, she owed 8% and not 15%.

    If her tax payments didn't cover the 8% employee tax she owed—i.e. she way underreported her income—then she MAY be liable for paying the difference. In some instances, she will not even be required to pay the 8%, but the employer will still be fully liable for its share.

    http://www.taxmantom.com/employee-vs...ssification-2/

    Finally, a dancer who wants to be cautious and cover herself can file amended tax returns before she files the lawsuit. A good attorney will likely encourage her to do this.

  26. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to tigershoes For This Useful Post:


  27. #15
    Veteran Member Miss_Red's Avatar
    Joined
    Nov 2014
    Location
    PDXXX
    Posts
    279
    Thanks
    1,828
    Thanked 1,167 Times in 220 Posts

    Default Re: Strippers Do Not Want To Be Employees! - Read This - Say No To Minimum Wage Lawsu

    I don't want to be an employee. I prefer to be an independent contractor.

    That being said...I don't want or need anyone to tell me what EVERY STRIPPER wants (clearly not the case, obviously), or what I should want. Who the hell are you to tell me what I should or shouldn't want in my career, at my place of work, doing the job that pays my bills? I'll pass on lectures and shallow manipulation (appeal to the majority, anyone?) from condescending strangers, thankyouverymuch.

    Sooooooo....GTFO with your Bolded, ALL CAPS bullshit. You don't speak for the (nonexistent) Stripper Hive Mind.

  28. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Miss_Red For This Useful Post:


  29. #16
    Featured Member Tourdefranzia's Avatar
    Joined
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Portland, OR
    Posts
    1,445
    Thanks
    649
    Thanked 3,393 Times in 970 Posts

    Default Re: Strippers Do Not Want To Be Employees! - Read This - Say No To Minimum Wage Lawsu

    Quote Originally Posted by tampadancers View Post
    • The Club can require you to dance for customers selected by the Club.
    Only on stage. No one can legally require another person to provide sexual services such as lap dances or private dances. That's called sex trafficking and is very, very illegal.

    But yes, the club could require the dancer perform on stage for their customers if that is part of the employment agreement.

    The OP has obviously not read the forums here. No one here is advocating for employee status. If a club is getting sued by dancers, it is likely they got too greedy, too demanding of scheduling requirements and the dancers got sick of it. Don't abuse people, treat them as truly independent contractors, and keep fees at a reasonable level, and you'll never have a problem with dancers suing your club.

    It's pretty easy to keep dancers happy. Treat them like a valued team member and show appreciation of their contributions to your success as business.

    We get a lot of abuse from our customers. We don't need it from our managers/bouncers/staff, too.

  30. The Following 7 Users Say Thank You to Tourdefranzia For This Useful Post:


  31. #17
    Banned
    Joined
    Apr 2016
    Posts
    2
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post

    Default Re: Strippers Do Not Want To Be Employees! - Read This - Say No To Minimum Wage Lawsu

    since I have already had close calls with 'employer' strip club lawsuits, here's some real world commentary ...

    Signing onto a class action 'employee' dancer lawsuit, and/or receiving paychecks ( with taxes withheld ) from an 'employer' club, will create an official record that a girl with real name x address y social security number z has worked for an adult entertainment business. While this will not show up in any cursory background check, it is likely to show up if an in-depth background check is conducted in conjunction with a state professional license application ( nursing, banking, legal, etc. ) or as part of the application / investigation process for a high profile job with a 'sensitive' straight employer.

    Going through the necessary extra steps to comply with 'employer' laws and regulations adds new costs for the club. At minimum these involve collecting working hours / tips / private dance sales data and maintaining an IRS compliant payroll system with automatic income tax withholding and payments. At minimum, this also involves clubowners paying a 6.75% Social Security tax on every dollar of reported dancer income. With no apparent effect on the amount of money that customers bring in through the club's front door, these new costs will ultimately come out of the clubowner's profit margin, or the dancer's net earnings, or both. And with the 'employer' clubowner in full control of the 'employee' dancer's work product, it's a pretty safe bet that the dancers net earnings will bear the brunt of these new costs.

    Now for the biggest real world point. The ACA requires that every 'full time' employee be provided health insurance coverage by their employer, with the employer either paying a hefty insurance premium or the employer facing a potential $4000 per employee per year 'fine' for failing to provide such coverage. Additionally, most states require that every 'full time' employee be provided with state unemployment and disability insurance coverage, which involves the clubowner having to pay an insurance premium to the state's unemployment and disability funds. By limiting 'employee' dancers to part-time status, the 'employer' clubowner can legally avoid these insurance costs or 'fines'. The ACA definition of part-time status essentially limits part-time 'employees' to a maximum of 28 hours per week. Thus it's extremely probable that 'employer' clubs will become ruthless about dancer schedules, limiting individual dancers to 28 hours per week, eliminating 'walk-ins', etc. Obviously, as part-time employees, unemployment and disability benefits will not be offered.

  32. #18
    God/dess SweetJulia's Avatar
    Joined
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Rolling in a BIG pile of money!
    Posts
    2,836
    Thanks
    21,633
    Thanked 6,196 Times in 1,978 Posts
    My Mood
    Yeehaw

    Default Re: Strippers Do Not Want To Be Employees! - Read This - Say No To Minimum Wage Lawsu

    ^Which is why I refused to get an entertainers license and didn't travel much. Hint:the board of nursing hates everyone, don't give them extra ammunition. A few girls I went to school with had to get lawyers to even fight for a license.
    Twitter:
    Cam profile: *Fave me, it's good for my ego
    General Pics:
    "Experience is a brutal teacher, but you learn. My God, do you learn!"-C.S. Lewis
    Quote Originally Posted by xStacey View Post
    Close contact, for an hour, for $40? And I guess I'll have to make conversation with them too?

  33. The Following User Says Thank You to SweetJulia For This Useful Post:


  34. #19
    Senior Member
    Joined
    Oct 2015
    Posts
    106
    Thanks
    137
    Thanked 219 Times in 69 Posts

    Default Re: Strippers Do Not Want To Be Employees! - Read This - Say No To Minimum Wage Lawsu

    Quote Originally Posted by CassandraVIP View Post
    since I have already had close calls with 'employer' strip club lawsuits, here's some real world commentary ...

    Signing onto a class action 'employee' dancer lawsuit, and/or receiving paychecks ( with taxes withheld ) from an 'employer' club, will create an official record that a girl with real name x address y social security number z has worked for an adult entertainment business. While this will not show up in any cursory background check, it is likely to show up if an in-depth background check is conducted in conjunction with a state professional license application ( nursing, banking, legal, etc. ) or as part of the application / investigation process for a high profile job with a 'sensitive' straight employer.

    Going through the necessary extra steps to comply with 'employer' laws and regulations adds new costs for the club. At minimum these involve collecting working hours / tips / private dance sales data and maintaining an IRS compliant payroll system with automatic income tax withholding and payments. At minimum, this also involves clubowners paying a 6.75% Social Security tax on every dollar of reported dancer income. With no apparent effect on the amount of money that customers bring in through the club's front door, these new costs will ultimately come out of the clubowner's profit margin, or the dancer's net earnings, or both. And with the 'employer' clubowner in full control of the 'employee' dancer's work product, it's a pretty safe bet that the dancers net earnings will bear the brunt of these new costs.

    Now for the biggest real world point. The ACA requires that every 'full time' employee be provided health insurance coverage by their employer, with the employer either paying a hefty insurance premium or the employer facing a potential $4000 per employee per year 'fine' for failing to provide such coverage. Additionally, most states require that every 'full time' employee be provided with state unemployment and disability insurance coverage, which involves the clubowner having to pay an insurance premium to the state's unemployment and disability funds. By limiting 'employee' dancers to part-time status, the 'employer' clubowner can legally avoid these insurance costs or 'fines'. The ACA definition of part-time status essentially limits part-time 'employees' to a maximum of 28 hours per week. Thus it's extremely probable that 'employer' clubs will become ruthless about dancer schedules, limiting individual dancers to 28 hours per week, eliminating 'walk-ins', etc. Obviously, as part-time employees, unemployment and disability benefits will not be offered.
    Well hi again, tampadancers! Did you get bored of your old handle so soon?

    Regarding your first point—this is less important for many dancers than you'd like them to believe. I believe it may be a problem for K-12 teachers. As for other professions, I'd urge dancers to review the requirements of the ones they're interested in. Many sensitive professions don't care what you did in the past as long as it was legal, which stripping is. Edit: I'd like to add that if you give clubs your social security number during the current hiring process, there's a good chance that you will make it into the system regardless of whether you do anything else. If they 1099 you, then your dancer status is 100% available for any in-depth background check with access to your tax records. Even if a club only makes a copy of your drivers license, you may well end up in the system in case of police action against the club.

    As for your second and third points—my my, the veil grows ever thinner over the threats, doesn't it? By giving dancers a choice between bad independent contractor conditions and "worse" employee conditions, I suppose you expect them to take the lesser evil. In reality, though, you leave them no choice but to fight to become employees and then unionize so that the employee conditions become fair and tolerable.

    Or, like many have said in this thread, you could keep/make the independent contractor conditions palatable, and then you might have fewer "close calls" with these lawsuits.

  35. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to tigershoes For This Useful Post:


  36. #20
    Featured Member Tourdefranzia's Avatar
    Joined
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Portland, OR
    Posts
    1,445
    Thanks
    649
    Thanked 3,393 Times in 970 Posts

    Default Re: Strippers Do Not Want To Be Employees! - Read This - Say No To Minimum Wage Lawsu

    The point that everyone is missing here is that this kind of lawsuit is not coming from strippers. It's coming from groups who would like to see strip clubs shut down. This can be any kind of do-gooders from religious zealots to social workers "helping" the poor sex worker from being doomed to objectification for income.

    This is really easy to resolve: treat your IC dancers like independent contractors. Don't fine for bad behavior, just fire the insubordinate individual.

    I know some clubs want their cake and eat it too. Too bad. If you don't want to get sued, then follow the laws governing your business.

  37. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Tourdefranzia For This Useful Post:


  38. #21
    Senior Member
    Joined
    Oct 2015
    Posts
    106
    Thanks
    137
    Thanked 219 Times in 69 Posts

    Default Re: Strippers Do Not Want To Be Employees! - Read This - Say No To Minimum Wage Lawsu

    Quote Originally Posted by Tourdefranzia View Post
    The point that everyone is missing here is that this kind of lawsuit is not coming from strippers. It's coming from groups who would like to see strip clubs shut down. This can be any kind of do-gooders from religious zealots to social workers "helping" the poor sex worker from being doomed to objectification for income.
    Can you link to sources showing this? I'm not disputing that you might be right, but this is just a bit surprising because I haven't heard of it before.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tourdefranzia View Post
    I know some clubs want their cake and eat it too. Too bad. If you don't want to get sued, then follow the laws governing your business.
    Absolutely. I would add: don't be greedy with your dancers' money. If they can see that you are already taking big lap dance cuts, fining them for bullshit, taking big stage fees and tipouts, then they may become motivated enough to try and step into the more protected employee category and form unions to negotiate with the club on their behalf. Dancers can easily look around and see that other professional unions are able to negotiate for excellent salaries and benefits on behalf of employees.

    By the way, it is possible to join a union as an independent contractor, but you don't have the power to bargain collectively with the club over things like pay, hours worked, and health care. You also aren't protected against getting fired for joining a union. Employees who join unions are able to bargain collectively and cannot get fired for union activity. If you want to go the union route—and as dancing conditions get worse, this may look more appealing—it is best to first sue for employee status and then unionize.

    Here's a link on how to start a union. I'm dropping it here for any future visitors to this page who may have an interest: http://www.aflcio.org/Learn-About-Un...r-Form-a-Union

    Obligatory disclaimer: I'm not a lawyer or anything prestigious like that, just an ex-dancer who's done some reading.

  39. #22
    Senior Member SkylerScarlett's Avatar
    Joined
    Nov 2014
    Location
    Denver, Washington DC and Atlanta Georgia
    Posts
    84
    Thanks
    47
    Thanked 75 Times in 44 Posts

    Default Re: Strippers Do Not Want To Be Employees! - Read This - Say No To Minimum Wage Lawsu

    I prefer staying as an independent contractor. If I dont make money it's on me. I track and claim my income so not worried about taxes. I don't want to be an employee of any club Ive worked at in DC, Denver or Atlanta.
    Skyler Doll
    5'1 98lbs 30DD-24-32
    GINGERS ARE SO DAMN SEXY!
    NAKED AT NIGHT! PLAY BY DAY!


  40. #23
    Featured Member Tourdefranzia's Avatar
    Joined
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Portland, OR
    Posts
    1,445
    Thanks
    649
    Thanked 3,393 Times in 970 Posts

    Default Re: Strippers Do Not Want To Be Employees! - Read This - Say No To Minimum Wage Lawsu

    Quote Originally Posted by tigershoes View Post
    Can you link to sources showing this? I'm not disputing that you might be right, but this is just a bit surprising because I haven't heard of it before.
    Generally, a class action lawsuit and/or purposed legislation is propped up by these groups, not the dancers themselves. I've seen advertisements come across Facebook in recent years looking for strippers who want to join a class action lawsuit against some big name club or chain.

    In my own experience, the National Association of Social Workers hired a lobbying firm to petition the state legislature to have strippers declared employees in the state of Oregon. Link here to an article at the beginning of the process.

    This article got dancers to show up at a town hall style meeting, and the overwhelming majority of strippers were there to protect their independent contractor status. There were a few that wanted to be made employees and were more comfortable with that kind of arrangement than being an independent contractor. The ones who wanted to be made employees were given resources to bring a class action law suit against their clubs. I'm not sure who was funding the law suits. Here's an article about the law suit against one club that is notorious for fining dancers for nothing: http://www.wweek.com/portland/articl...evils-due.html The women named in the article were at the meetings about the proposed legislation. I don't know if their lawsuit had anything to do with their interest in the proposed bill.

    After having been on the inside of one of these situations, I learned that it isn't the dancers themselves who are interested in the changes in the law.

    The money to fund these class action suits is coming through NGOs. In the Oregon Legislation example, it was the NASW (National Association of Social Workers) that was receiving funds from an undisclosed source. In this article, the National Employment Law Project is the face, but the funding source isn't mentioned. For the girls who sued Casa Diablo, they were represented by NW Workers Justice Project.

    I don't know how to find out who is funding these law suits. I'm not an investigative journalist. But these groups are actively recruiting dancers to sue clubs, not the other way around.

  41. The Following User Says Thank You to Tourdefranzia For This Useful Post:


  42. #24
    Moderator Optimist's Avatar
    Joined
    Feb 2004
    Location
    House of Aion
    Posts
    8,074
    Thanks
    7,881
    Thanked 5,705 Times in 2,127 Posts
    My Mood
    In Love

    Default Re: Strippers Do Not Want To Be Employees! - Read This - Say No To Minimum Wage Lawsu

    Quote Originally Posted by jasmine22 View Post
    Am I the only one who always felt that dancers should be paid to come to work? I think it's really crazy to be forced to pay fees and survive off tips....
    Well actually.....most of y'all are too young to know but in fact we were paid and were treated as employees 25 yrs ago. When I started we were paid $20 an hour and clubs were packed! It did not hurt their profits or the guys experience for us to be paid. Imagine that! It too about 10 years but gradually clubs stopped paying and had the balls to begin illegally CHARGING US! The main way they pulled this off in NYC/NJ was to hire almost nothing but illegal immigrant dancers. Many barely spoke English but club owners believed that as long as they had white skin or nearly white, the customers would not care. In some cases that was true but in many cases club attendance took a steep dive and many clubs closed. In the mid 90s table dance clubs got popular throughout the state(s) so that initially made up the difference and then some. Of course club owner greed knows no bounds so they began charging a cut of the dances...then half the VIP rooms fees.... No you have a thug like the OP coming here to spread the intimidation and extend the exploitation. God forbid everyone make money. And these idiots can't see that that is why less girls are entering the industry and they stay far less years than before.
    “What a caterpillar calls the end of the world we call a butterfly.” - ECKHART TOLLE

  43. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Optimist For This Useful Post:


  44. #25
    Featured Member Tourdefranzia's Avatar
    Joined
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Portland, OR
    Posts
    1,445
    Thanks
    649
    Thanked 3,393 Times in 970 Posts

    Default Re: Strippers Do Not Want To Be Employees! - Read This - Say No To Minimum Wage Lawsu

    ^^This is happening in a lot of industries, not just stripping. People who were once paid by the companies they worked for, are now paying to go to work. Some statistics now say that 30% of all workers today are self employed, and the vast majority of them would have been considered employees 20 years ago.

  45. The Following User Says Thank You to Tourdefranzia For This Useful Post:


Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Minimum Wage
    By gameover in forum Customer Conversation
    Replies: 78
    Last Post: 02-04-2016, 07:32 AM
  2. Minimum Wage
    By Zinaida in forum Dollar Den
    Replies: 30
    Last Post: 08-01-2011, 06:57 AM
  3. minimum wage really ??!#@[email protected]
    By minniesoporno in forum Other Work
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: 11-11-2010, 08:20 PM
  4. Minimum wage going down!
    By Deogol in forum Dollar Den
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 12-31-2009, 04:37 PM
  5. Minimum wage?
    By ambellina in forum Dollar Den
    Replies: 15
    Last Post: 05-14-2006, 02:44 AM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •