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Thread: USA houshold weath rise - 89.1 trill

  1. #51
    Banned Eric Stoner's Avatar
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    Default Re: USA houshold weath rise - 89.1 trill

    Quote Originally Posted by Gia2608 View Post
    I actually have a degree in economics so, while the people in this thread are all very knowledgeable I look at these facts and figures with a more scientific approach, but based on historical trends and models and not just current day statistics and graphs. It is late and I do not feel like using SAT vocab so bear with me. I am going to go back tomorrow and read some of these longer posts in detail. I agree the post recession growth is "anemic", median income growth is stagnant as fuck- even if it has gone up it is not even close to being on par with the increase in expenses (like energy, groceries or even health care as Eric pointed out).

    I think we are going to see prosperity in this country again in the near future because of American innovation and the fact that we do not "need" manufacturing jobs anymore. It is more beneficial to our economy to train people who do manual labor to fix our infrastructure and implement new technologies like solar and wind energy than to build widgets that we can get in china for 4.00. There are 2 major, major problems that are going to really cause problems. Sorry if anyone talked about this.

    1. More baby boomers are retiring. They believed they would have social security and many had pensions that lost value in this last crash, as they were tied to portfolios and mutual funds that lost value. I have a client whose pension went bankrupt and while he still gets a check it is 40% of what he planned to retire on.These people are also living longer due to medical advances. This, unless social security is abolished (which I do not see happening) it is going to become to burden of younger people to pay MORE into social security. I would bet money that this will happen within the next 2 presidential terms.

    2. Young people are straddled with debt. I am not talking about people who bought a 52" TV on credit, I am talking about massive student loan debt because we were beat upside the head to go to college only to graduate and learn employers want to pay people with a bachelor's degree a few bucks over min. wage; that plus rising housing costs means there is little to save even if they are frugal and try to put money away- they have to actually invest to see any return and many young people (30 and under) do not have one month of living expenses in the bank; never mind invest with a planner or Scott trade account what the fuck are they going to do? Work until they die? Start saving for retirement at 50?? I know 2 people besides me that have a retirement or brokerage account and mine (brokerage) is nothing to write home about at the present moment. Most of my friends are not in the adult business if this matters. I know I am still young and in 20 years or so it will be much healthier but I have to make a very significant contribution every month to feel like I will be able to keep my lights on and fridge full in old age; never mind do something I might enjoy in my retirement like travel or play the occasional game of golf.

    I agree with Eric that our tax code needs a huge overhaul- the whole thing of people getting refunds every year is asinine, dated and a huge waste. I think we should have a better way of estimating people's tax liabilities so they are not over paying and then we waste resources to figure out how much to give back. It is archaic. Eliminate the whole damn thing. I will go more into that later on. Of course, I am referring specially to the US.

    My point is, even if US household wealth "rises" there are many factors off-setting that marginal increase that will make it harder and harder for middle class people. I do not think we will ever see prosperity like we did post WW2. This could be compensated for if people planned a little better but I am worried that they will not.
    Thank you Gia. You mentioned two major issues that NOBODY wants to talk about. Both are complex and do not have easy or painless solutions.
    First is Pensions. And I include in that Social Security. Leave private pensions aside except to note that many private employers have long ago shifted from defined benefit pensions to 401 K's. State and local government pension plans are in serious trouble. Many are technically insolvent now. Years of inadequate funding coupled with overly generous pension payments and terms have combined to create a huge problem. In many budgets pension and health care costs swallow up more than half of all revenues. The ONLY solution is to shift to 401- K type pensions , cut health care benefits ( or have larger employee contribution with higher co-pays and deductibles ) and cut pension benefits. The alternative is a wave of municipal bankruptcies and at least a dozen insolvent states a la Puerto Rico. As for Social Security it has to be means tested. Would someone explain to me why somebody like Warren Buffet or Bill Gates qualifies for Social Security ? And Medicare ? Or the Bushes? Or the Clintons ? Or Trump or any other multi-millionaire ? " But Eric they paid in like everyone else. That's not fair. " Yeah. So what ? The original purpose of the program was to keep the elderly from starving and freezing to death. And Medicare was designed to provide BASIC medical care to the elderly so they wouldn't have to choose between their prescriptions and buying food. Which many are still having to do.

    As for student debt that is the largest societal debt we now have . Larger than car loans. Why ? Too many people going to colleges that never controlled costs. Yeah you can throw in some fraud ; abuse by SOME for - profit colleges but a lot of it was caused by GOVERNMENT ! Huh ? What ? Before the G.I. Bill people who wanted to go to college but couldn't afford to saved for it , worked their way through college ; got a scholarship or just didn't go. Did the country benefit from the G.I. Bill ? Definitely but a side effect was the notion that Everyone could and should go to college. Most W.W. II vets did NOT go to college. Most went to work. Some went to trade schools. First under Eisenhower and then under Johnson we saw an explosion in federal involvement in higher education. In all of education for that matter but until Carter the federal focus was on college. Under Eisenhower the "Sputnik Scare " caused increased federal spending on math and science education. Johnson increased federal funding and Carter created the Dept . of Education. Finally Obama effectively nationalized student loans. And education spending and student debt both exploded. Colleges have had zero incentive to control costs. Not even most state schools have done so. Why ? Because student loans picked up the costs. I don't know what the solution is. Merit based lending ? I do know that we ought to let foreign students who graduate with degrees in STEM majors stay here instead of requiring them to return to their native countries on graduation. Maybe we should use more "pooling " or revolving funds. A finite sum is set aside to help needy students pay for college with job placement assistance and VERY strict repayment requirements so that money is put back into the fund to help incoming groups of students. Some colleges are cutting away the tinsel and frills and granting degrees in three and even two years. How ? They focus on offering courses that help grads get good paying jobs without requiring them to get a "well rounded " i.e. liberal arts education. They focus on departments that are at least partially self-supporting i.e. they bring in private and Federal grants and funding. Now this is going to sound cruel and insensitive but if someone wants to major in Art History , Women's Studies , Minority Studies etc. they ought to be able to do so. At their own expense or on a private scholarship. Not with tax money. To govern is to choose and part of sensible choosing is to weigh costs and benefits to the country as a whole. I submit that we benefit far more from STEM grads than from Art Historians or those who want to study how to encourage more lesbians to farm. I am NOT making that up. That was a REAL Federal program. Likewise we need a crackdown on phony trade schools , diploma mills and abusive for profit colleges. I'm sorry but if you going to go to college on public money via a loan I think part of the equation ought to be the likelihood that you will be able to pay it back. If colleges want to maintain departments and courses of limited or even no utility then let them do so with private grants. or let them be totally supported by course fees. Not taxpayer money. Yes, it would be nice if we could afford to pay for everyone to go to college and study and teach whatever they want but we can't.

    I've already posted about reforming the Tax Code. I will add that at present we have a Tax Code that rewards debt and punishes innovation , achievement and success. I have to part company with Gia and say that "better planning " will not help people who simply do not have any extra money to set aside and invest. I want greater prosperity so that more people will be able to save and invest and not have to rely on the government to take care of them when they retire.
    Last edited by Eric Stoner; 01-12-2017 at 08:48 AM.

  2. #52
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    Default Re: USA houshold weath rise - 89.1 trill

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Stoner View Post
    Thank you Gia. You mentioned two major issues that NOBODY wants to talk about. Both are complex and do not have easy or painless solutions.
    First is Pensions. And I include in that Social Security. Leave private pensions aside except to note that many private employers have long ago shifted from defined benefit pensions to 401 K's. State and local government pension plans are in serious trouble. Many are technically insolvent now. Years of inadequate funding coupled with overly generous pension payments and terms have combined to create a huge problem. In many budgets pension and health care costs swallow up more than half of all revenues. The ONLY solution is to shift to 401- K type pensions , cut health care benefits ( or have larger employee contribution with higher co-pays and deductibles ) and cut pension benefits. The alternative is a wave of municipal bankruptcies and at least a dozen insolvent states a la Puerto Rico. As for Social Security it has to means tested. Would someone explain to me why somebody like Warren Buffet or Bill Gates qualifies for Social Security ? And Medicare ? Or the Bushes? Or the Clintons ? Or Trump or any other multi-millionaire ? " But Eric they paid in like everyone else. That's not fair. " Yeah. So what ? The original purpose of the program was to keep the elderly from starving and freezing to death. And Medicare was designed to provide BASIC medical care to the elderly so they wouldn't have to choose between their prescriptions and buying food. Which many are still having to do.

    As for student debt that is the largest societal debt we now have . Larger than car loans. Why ? Too many people going to colleges that never controlled costs. Yeah you can throw in some fraud ; abuse by SOME for - profit colleges but a lot of it was caused by GOVERNMENT ! Huh ? What ? Before the G.I. Bill people who wanted to go to college but couldn't afford to saved for it , worked their way through college ; got a scholarship or just didn't go. Did the country benefit from the G.I. Bill ? Definitely but a side effect was the notion that Everyone could and should go to college. Most W.W. II vets did NOT go to college. Most went to work. Some went to trade schools. First under Eisenhower and then under Johnson we saw an explosion in federal involvement in higher education. In all of education for that matter but until Carter the federal focus was on college. Under Eisenhower the "Sputnik Scare " caused increased federal spending on math and science education. Johnson increased federal funding and Carter created the Dept . of Education. Finally Obama effectively nationalized student loans. And education spending and student debt both exploded. Colleges have had zero incentive to control costs. Not even most state schools have done so. Why ? Because student loans picked up the costs. I don't know what the solution is. Merit based lending ? I do know that we ought to let foreign students who graduate with degrees in STEM majors stay here instead of requiring them to return to their native countries on graduation. Maybe we should use more "pooling " or revolving funds. A finite sum is set aside to help needy students pay for college with job placement assistance and VERY strict repayment requirements so that money is put back into the fund to help incoming groups of students. Some colleges are cutting away the tinsel and frills and granting degrees in three and even two years. How ? They focus on offering courses that help grads get good paying jobs without requiring them to get a "well rounded " i.e. liberal arts education. They focus on departments that are at least partially self-supporting i.e. they bring in private and Federal grants and funding. Now this is going to sound cruel and insensitive but if someone wants to major in Art History , Women's Studies , Minority Studies etc. they ought to be able to do so. At their own expense or on a private scholarship. Not with tax money. To govern is to choose and part of sensible choosing is to weigh costs and benefits to the country as a whole. I submit that we benefit far more from STEM grads than from Art Historians or those who want to study how to encourage more lesbians to farm. I am NOT making that up. That was a REAL Federal program. Likewise we need a crackdown on phony trade schools , diploma mills and abusive for profit colleges. I'm sorry but if you going to go to college on public money via a loan I think part of the equation ought to be the likelihood that you will be able to pay it back. If colleges want to maintain departments and courses of limited or even no utility then let them do so with private grants. or let them be totally supported by course fees. Not taxpayer money. Yes, it would be nice if we could afford to pay for everyone to go to college and study and teach whatever they want but we can't.

    I've already posted about reforming the Tax Code. I will add that at present we have a Tax Code that rewards debt and punishes innovation , achievement and success. I have to part company with Gia and say that "better planning " will not help people who simply do not have any extra money to set aside and invest. I want greater prosperity so that more people will be able to save and invest and not have to rely on the government to take care of them when they retire.

    Yes, I (And most others) feel VERY cheated about college. I cannot find work for more than 13$ an hour with a Biology degree, so I am back in school for nursing. Luckily I can use a lot of my classes without having to start over. It really sucks. I was basically taught college is a magic golden ticket. Not the case!!!

  3. #53
    Featured Member minnow's Avatar
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    Default Re: USA houshold weath rise - 89.1 trill

    Quote Originally Posted by RyanXO View Post
    Yes, I (And most others) feel VERY cheated about college. I cannot find work for more than 13$ an hour with a Biology degree, so I am back in school for nursing. Luckily I can use a lot of my classes without having to start over. It really sucks. I was basically taught college is a magic golden ticket. Not the case!!!
    What jobs did you expect to get with your biology degree, and present level of work experience ? Why didn't you land those jobs ? If because there are very few, or no openings, you need to re-evaluate your goals towards something more attainable with adequate "payback". If there were openings, but potential employers wanted more work experience in field, I'd work on expanding your qualifications. Getting nursing degree does that, plus offers a good fallback provision should your long term goals not pan out.

    Lastly, I propose that before applying to college, or at least prior to choosing a major, prospective student should have cogent answers to the following questions.

    1) How will particular degree set me apart from other applicants with other degrees ? (In your case, lets say someone with a degree in Literature, Psychology, Computer Science, Electrical Engineering, etc.)

    2) What are my long term career goals, and how will degree help me attain those goals ?

    3) What additional training/experience will I need to realistically get a decent paying job beyond just the degree ?

    While not a complete checklist, there are many college graduates that cannot answer these basic questions. I can recall the frustrating "Mexican Standoff" many years ago of "to get a job, you need experience, to get the experience, you need a job." I think that would be called paying ones dues. Meanwhile, best wishes on your job/career search.

    PS- Someone else started a thread about having a degree but no job offers in Life Support section, fyi.
    I'm right 96% of the time. I don't sweat the other 5% .......................

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  5. #54
    Banned Eric Stoner's Avatar
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    Default Re: USA houshold weath rise - 89.1 trill

    Ditto. Nursing is an EXCELLENT career path. High demand ( anyone know an unemployed R.N. ? ) ; good pay although because of a nation-wide shortage and some seriously underserved areas the hours can be VERY long.

    Best of luck.

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