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  1. #26
    God/dess hyori's Avatar
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    Default Re: Academic Research

    Well, I don't really know why camming has to be anything at all other than a way to make money for doing some kind of performance usually of a sexual nature only in virtual context. It is what it is. I don't need to prove anything to anyone, certainly not radical feminists.

    I wish someone who is looking towards a career in statistics would venture into getting the real numbers. Now that's a thesis I would read. As for this one, it's already been beaten beyond the mummification phase in my opinion.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeepThoughts View Post
    I would love to take part in this study but Im coming from Porn and into webcamming so Im not sure if my personal experience would be a benefit to your research. I cannot agree more that we need more research in this area. The little I have found relating to webcam is never a reflection of my own perspective or experiences and I tends to feel as though its taking a very small look at something that is truly revolutionary for so many reasons (many which you have already stated so I wont bother restating them). I love reading the research done into Prostitution. I find it very enlightening although I have lukewarm feelings for the research done on porn as it mostly highlighting the Hollywood porn and not considering internet porn. Never the less I would love to read your research when your done I hope you will follow up this thread and let us know where we can find it or purchase it.



    Since I have discovered Camming connection I have noticed that this is really a message pushed by the more successful camgirls that contribute here. Sam38g comes to mind. She is often touting the benefits of cam as a full time job.

    As long as you are camming your experience will benefit the research. The more variety we have the rounder, fuller and more accurate a picture will be gained from my research

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    Default Re: Academic Research

    Quote Originally Posted by hyori View Post
    Well, I don't really know why camming has to be anything at all other than a way to make money for doing some kind of performance usually of a sexual nature only in virtual context. It is what it is. I don't need to prove anything to anyone, certainly not radical feminists.

    I wish someone who is looking towards a career in statistics would venture into getting the real numbers. Now that's a thesis I would read. As for this one, it's already been beaten beyond the mummification phase in my opinion.
    Lol, harsh, i find the idea of the numbers involved mind blowing. Live Jasmin is the big hitter but stream mate and mfc figures would be interesting to read

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    Default Re: Academic Research

    Quote Originally Posted by DancesWithSloths View Post
    OK, bbs, I'm convinced. Like PGD, I believe the project is sound and worth supporting.
    Thank you , that means a lot!!

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    Default Re: Academic Research

    Quote Originally Posted by rstuart2 View Post

    Doesn't it strike you as strange that when its virtually impossible to have a discussion about any other form of sex work without having to have a debate about trafficking that this has not been attached to webcamming? I theorise that this is because webcamming benefits hugely corporate interests in a way that forms of sex work don't. After all there is no cash in hand camming , everything passes through several corporations. So with corporate involvement encouraging economic mainstreaming it would be reasonable to expect that how webcamming is experienced is likely to be very different.
    A watched a BBC TV programme about this (may have been two, actually), and yes, trafficking (and slavery) DOES happen within the webcamming industry. It's HUGE within the Philippines, with a large part of this having the additional problem of children working as cammers and the obvious other issues this encapsulates. http://www.bbc.co.uk/mediacentre/pro...y-investigates

    And then there are the Eastern European "studios", all pretty much cyber-brothels. (Note - I know not all work like this, just they do exist.)


    EDIT - although yes, there isn't a general stigma about it, in the same way as "all prostitutes are trafficked, forced, on drugs or were abused as a child" thing.
    Last edited by CatBBW; 10-15-2016 at 06:49 AM.

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    Default Re: Academic Research

    Quote Originally Posted by CatBBW View Post
    A watched a BBC TV programme about this (may have been two, actually), and yes, trafficking (and slavery) DOES happen within the webcamming industry. It's HUGE within the Philippines, with a large part of this having the additional problem of children working as cammers and the obvious other issues this encapsulates. http://www.bbc.co.uk/mediacentre/pro...y-investigates

    And then there are the Eastern European "studios", all pretty much cyber-brothels. (Note - I know not all work like this, just they do exist.)


    EDIT - although yes, there isn't a general stigma about it, in the same way as "all prostitutes are trafficked, forced, on drugs or were abused as a child" thing.
    Yes i saw that documentary and do you know that the Philippines is i believe the only country in the world where webcamming is illegal? Look what happens!!!!! Stigma and abuse . What i found interesting about the studios is that yes they are exploitative , taking far more of the performers money and controlling profiles etc . When i went to Romania i realised why the studios were such a big feature of the webcamming landscape was because people tend to live with their extended families and so cant cam from home. The same is true of Colombia the other big studio capital.

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    Veteran Member LilyAnderson's Avatar
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    I helped her out and did an interview with her. The research she is conducting is going towards a wonderful topic for her PHd. She is a former sex worker, incredibly nice, and will not make you feel uncomfortable at all.
    Follow me on twitter:




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    Default Re: Academic Research

    I just don't get it.

    Criminology (from Latin crīmen, "accusation"; and Greek -λογία, -logia) is the scientific study of the nature, extent, management, causes, control, consequences, and prevention of criminal behavior, both on the individual and social levels.

    Elsewhere I looked, Criminology is a discipline that examines 'crime' and 'deviance'...


    so again, what has webcamming to do with this? Why is it lumped in with it, unlike other jobs?

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    I am happy to be interviewed if you are interested, 8 am also a law student

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    Default Re: Academic Research

    Quote Originally Posted by rstuart2 View Post
    Yes i saw that documentary and do you know that the Philippines is i believe the only country in the world where webcamming is illegal? Look what happens!!!!! Stigma and abuse . What i found interesting about the studios is that yes they are exploitative , taking far more of the performers money and controlling profiles etc . When i went to Romania i realised why the studios were such a big feature of the webcamming landscape was because people tend to live with their extended families and so cant cam from home. The same is true of Colombia the other big studio capital.
    Webcamming is also illegal in Thailand and UAE too

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    Quote Originally Posted by pinklemonade0 View Post
    I just don't get it.

    Criminology (from Latin crīmen, "accusation"; and Greek -λογία, -logia) is the scientific study of the nature, extent, management, causes, control, consequences, and prevention of criminal behavior, both on the individual and social levels.

    Elsewhere I looked, Criminology is a discipline that examines 'crime' and 'deviance'...


    so again, what has webcamming to do with this? Why is it lumped in with it, unlike other jobs?


    First off this is not a degree, its a PhD and so it isn't lumped in with anything. When you study for a PhD you study just one topic and you study it exclusively. Secondly my academic background is that i study criminology AND cultural studies as my undergraduate degree. My masters is in law and i studied criminal justice and human rights .In my university we are extremely critical of the law and how it uses crime to control certain sections of society rather than as a way of administering justice. In effect the law is a tool of manipulation used by powerful elites to control the masses. The war on drugs is a classic example. In the USA more black men are now incarcerated due to the sale of cannabis than were enslaved at the point of emancipation due to the sale of a drug that was legislated against in order to protect the interests of the cotton growing plantocracy after the end of slavery.


    In my own case and as an intermittent life long sex worker I used my degree to study how women have been affected by the law and how the law has not protected them but marginalised and persecuted them. Sex work being the prime example, the fact that sex work in general is increasingly legislated against is I believe all about the control of women's bodies and furthering political ambitions rather than any attempt to protect them. Since 2000 the world globally has taken an increasingly abolitionist approach to sex work making iy more dangerous and stigmatising for women who work in the sex industry. I cannot describe how opposed i am to this stance both as a woman who has worked in practically every type of sex work and as an academic.


    Which brings us to webcamming and here i should point out categorically that i do not believe that it should be regulated and legislated against any more than any other job in the service sector should be regulated. The reason I chose to pursue this line of inquiry for my PhD was because in the UK in 2014 it became illegal to upload certain types of pornography. The rationale being that kids with direct debit cards could access this stuff, I was struck (and very pleased!) that there was no mention of webcamming in this legislation as it would have been the perfect opportunity to legislate against it. I did some research and came up with several explanations of why this might be the case. The first was money, it is very hard to pinpoint how much money is generated by webcamming as no one is really studying it but to give you an example Gyorgi Gattyan, the founder of Livejasmin.com, the most popular webhosting site is Hungary's richest man as well as being very corporate (The Economist 2015). The second reason was that webcam performers challenge the idea that all women involved in sex work are victims in need of rescue, that webcamming empowers women to define their own identities because the webcam performer is able to maintain control of their representation and set the terms and conditions of viewing. This isn’t to say that there aren’t abuses, I believe there are especially around issues of copyright and intellectual property, but I think webcamming allows women who wouldn’t normally participate in sex work to do just that. It’s their stories of how they experience webcamming that is the central focus of my research, I am interested in how women came into camming, how they experience it as a form of labour, I am not interested in what you perform so much as your experience of working in a form of sexual commerce that hasn't been regulated against .

    So in answer to your question its a criminology Phd because that is my academic background but my interest is in the lack of legislation pertaining to webcamming and not because i either believe it should be criminalised or want it to be,I categorically do not agree with that in any shape or form. Incidentally my funding is entirely independent as I am funded by the alumni of my university.

    Hope that helps!!!

    Rachel x

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    Veteran Member pinklemonade0's Avatar
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    OK thanks for explaining, I understand it a bit more now - and it seems to make a bit more sense.

    That's interesting that you talk about the new UK laws because I was quite shocked when I found out about them. I did a bit of reading about it at the time and it was about "video on demand" like Channel 4OD where people can download something and then (specifically) watch it at a later date. With webcamming because it's a live broadcast would this mean it was excluded? I guess they could close that loophole though. To be honest, I'm not sure where I lie on the issue, because part of me feels like full on cumshows and the like really should not be accessible to those under 16 (and I can imagine some really young kids can get on free chat sites etc and watch it, the thought creeps me out) but at the same time... idk, this stuff is everywhere, is it really a bad thing? I just don't know. I don't think sex is bad, but at the same time i guess there are probably/possible? negative effects of being exposed to loads of it in a non realistic way. i guess they would somehow have the internet set up in the UK so that nothing can link to pron content (even on google, or pictures?) if you weren't over 18?

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    Quote Originally Posted by pinklemonade0 View Post
    OK thanks for explaining, I understand it a bit more now - and it seems to make a bit more sense.

    That's interesting that you talk about the new UK laws because I was quite shocked when I found out about them. I did a bit of reading about it at the time and it was about "video on demand" like Channel 4OD where people can download something and then (specifically) watch it at a later date. With webcamming because it's a live broadcast would this mean it was excluded? I guess they could close that loophole though. To be honest, I'm not sure where I lie on the issue, because part of me feels like full on cumshows and the like really should not be accessible to those under 16 (and I can imagine some really young kids can get on free chat sites etc and watch it, the thought creeps me out) but at the same time... idk, this stuff is everywhere, is it really a bad thing? I just don't know. I don't think sex is bad, but at the same time i guess there are probably/possible? negative effects of being exposed to loads of it in a non realistic way. i guess they would somehow have the internet set up in the UK so that nothing can link to pron content (even on google, or pictures?) if you weren't over 18?
    There is other legislation that could be used to regulate webcamming if there was an inclination to do so . For example the Policing and Crime Act 2009 and the circular that was published by the Home Office providing guidance for police and practitioners enforcing the provisions refers to a prostitute as a person who, on at least one occasion and whether or not compelled to do so, offers or provides sexual services to another person in return for payment or a promise of payment to the person offering or providing sexual services or a third person. It also clarifies that an offence is not limited to particular localities or types of premises. It could apply to situations where, for example, the sexual services are provided in a place that may have a legitimate business front (e.g. a nightclub) as well as internet-based services. It would seem that there is legislation in place for potentially defining performing a sex act for money via a webcam as an act of prostitution but this isn't being implemented.

    From the point of view of the customer under Section 14 of the Policing and Crime Act 2009 makes it illegal to purchase sexual services from adult prostitutes if they are exploited. There is a reasonable case to make that someone paying a proportion of her earnings to an organization is potentially being financially exploited for the benefit of that organization. Especially when you consider that streamate takes over 60% of a performers earnings , again this is not being implemented and i believe that this is because proximity to the law needs to be sufficiently distant if webcamming is to be absorbed into mainstream economic activity in the current neo-liberal economy.

    The existence of an extrajudicial space that allows for the development and practice of sexual commerce along with an economic climate that facilitates it means that webcamming may be the first practice that is legitimized by virtue of the silence that surrounds it. At the same time the dynamics of production have shifted from the nation state to the global corporations. In this narrative the assertion of morality is no longer the sole prerogative of the state as corporations do not only produce commodities they also manufacture subjectivities. Bauman describes the present era as a liquid modernity, a mass consumer culture in which a society of producers have become a society consumers and where individuals become the commodities. Basically it could be legislated against but because of corporate interests it isn't and so it means a form of sex work is being economically mainstreamed and so women are likely to be experiencing it differently to other forms of sex work.

    Thanks for your points though, it always helps to hear other peoples view points and i am grateful

    Rachel x

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    Just finished my interview with Rachel. As your resident grumpy research methods nerd, I'm satisfied that her project is sound, and has the potential to build the community up, rather being than one of those parasitic ego vehicles we see all the time.

    It's was a really nice chat, in fact.


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    Quote Originally Posted by pinklemonade0 View Post
    OK thanks for explaining, I understand it a bit more now - and it seems to make a bit more sense.

    That's interesting that you talk about the new UK laws because I was quite shocked when I found out about them. I did a bit of reading about it at the time and it was about "video on demand" like Channel 4OD where people can download something and then (specifically) watch it at a later date. With webcamming because it's a live broadcast would this mean it was excluded? I guess they could close that loophole though. To be honest, I'm not sure where I lie on the issue, because part of me feels like full on cumshows and the like really should not be accessible to those under 16 (and I can imagine some really young kids can get on free chat sites etc and watch it, the thought creeps me out) but at the same time... idk, this stuff is everywhere, is it really a bad thing? I just don't know. I don't think sex is bad, but at the same time i guess there are probably/possible? negative effects of being exposed to loads of it in a non realistic way. i guess they would somehow have the internet set up in the UK so that nothing can link to pron content (even on google, or pictures?) if you weren't over 18?
    Yes webcamming was not covered by this, or by EU digital goods laws because it is live and interactive rather than pre-recorded. It's classed the same way as virtual consulting. However the UK has not given up on the idea of policing online porn or adult productions and the latest incarnation will be when the digital economy bill is passed http://www.xbiz.com/news/legal/213129
    http://sexandcensorship.org/tag/porn-panic/
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    Quote Originally Posted by sexysusie View Post
    Yes webcamming was not covered by this, or by EU digital goods laws because it is live and interactive rather than pre-recorded. It's classed the same way as virtual consulting. However the UK has not given up on the idea of policing online porn or adult productions and the latest incarnation will be when the digital economy bill is passed http://www.xbiz.com/news/legal/213129
    http://sexandcensorship.org/tag/porn-panic/
    Im not sure about webcamming being compared to virtual consulting, i have never encountered that description before . However,having read the Digital Economy Act and in particular the section pertaining to online pornograpghy , once again camming is conspicuous by its absence . The act lists pornography as this-
    PART 3 ONLINE PORNOGRAPHY
    Internet pornography: requirement to prevent access by persons under the
    age of 18
    (1) A person must not make pornographic material available on the internet on a
    commercial basis to persons in the United Kingdom except in a way that
    secures that, at any given time, the material is not normally accessible by
    persons under the age of 18.

    Digital Economy Bill
    Part 3 — Online pornography
    18
    (2) For the purposes of this Part, making pornographic material available on the
    internet on a commercial basis includes making it available on the internet free
    of charge—
    (a) on or via an internet site which is operated on a commercial basis, or
    (b) via any other means of accessing the internet which is operated or
    provided on a commercial basis.
    (3) The age-verification regulator (see section 17) must publish guidance about—
    (a) types of arrangements for making pornographic material available that
    the regulator will treat as complying with subsection (1);
    (b) circumstances in which the regulator will treat an internet site or other
    means of accessing the internet as operated or provided on a
    commercial basis; and
    (c) other circumstances in which the regulator will treat making
    pornographic material available on the internet as done on a
    commercial basis.
    (4) Regulations 17 to 20 and 22 of the Electronic Commerce (EC Directive)
    Regulations 2002 (S.I. 2002/2013) apply in relation to this Part, despite
    regulation 3(2) of those Regulations.
    (5) For the purposes of this Part—
    (a) making material available on the internet does not include making the
    content of an on-demand programme service available on the internet
    in the course of providing such a service;
    (b) a means of accessing the internet does not include any device or other
    equipment for doing so.
    (6) In subsection (5), “on-demand programme service” has the meaning given by
    section 368A of the Communications Act 2003.
    16 Meaning of “pornographic material”
    (1) In this Part “pornographic material” means any of the following—
    (a) a video work in respect of which the video works authority has issued
    an R18 certificate;
    (b) material that was included in a video work to which paragraph (a)
    applies, if it is reasonable to assume from its nature that its inclusion
    was among the reasons why the certificate was an R18 certificate;
    (c) any other material if it is reasonable to assume from its nature that any
    classification certificate issued in respect of a video work including it
    would be an R18 certificate;
    (d) a video work in respect of which the video works authority has issued
    an 18 certificate, and that it is reasonable to assume from its nature was
    produced solely or principally for the purposes of sexual arousal;
    (e) material that was included in a video work to which paragraph (d)
    applies, if it is reasonable to assume from the nature of the material—
    (i) that it was produced solely or principally for the purposes of
    sexual arousal, and
    (ii) that its inclusion was among the reasons why the certificate was
    an 18 certificate;
    (f) any other material if it is reasonable to assume from its nature—
    (i) that it was produced solely or principally for the purposes of
    sexual arousal, and Digital Economy Bill
    Part 3 — Online pornography
    19
    (ii) that any classification certificate issued for a video work
    including it would be an 18 certificate.
    (2) In this section—
    “18 certificate” means a classification certificate which—
    (a) contains, pursuant to section 7(2)(b) of the Video Recordings
    Act 1984, a statement that the video work is suitable for viewing
    only by persons who have attained the age of 18 and that no
    video recording containing that work is to be supplied to any
    person who has not attained that age, and
    (b) does not contain the statement mentioned in section 7(2)(c) of
    that Act that no video recording containing the video work is to
    be supplied other than in a licensed sex shop;
    “classification certificate” has the same meaning as in the Video
    Recordings Act 1984 (see section 7 of that Act);
    “material” means—
    (a) a series of visual images shown as a moving picture, with or
    without sound;
    (b) a still image or series of still images, with or without sound; or
    (c) sound;
    “R18 certificate” means a classification certificate which contains the
    statement mentioned in section 7(2)(c) of the Video Recordings Act
    1984 that no video recording containing the video work is to be
    supplied other than in a licensed sex shop;
    “the video works authority” means the person or persons designated
    under section 4(1) of the Video Recordings Act 1984 as the authority
    responsible for making arrangements in respect of video works other
    than video games;
    “video work” means a video work within the meaning of the Video
    Recordings Act 1984, other than a video game within the meaning of
    that Act.


    Once again the perfect opportunity to legislate against webcamming and once again this isn't actually the case. Bearing in mind the first camming for money was back in 1998 and Live Jasmin was established in 2001 the lack of regulation is noticeable and bearing in mind the corporate interests involved i don't believe there is any intention to legislate. In fact if you consider the loss of revenue as a result of the adult industry’s inability to protect its intellectual property online the business could not survive without significant structural change . The survivors are the ones selling what cannot be copied or offered free. With a shift towards selling experience and services rather than materials that can be reproduced. A live performance via a webcam, which is essentially a direct connection from performer to consumer, is not easily replicable. Even if a performer does experience her performance being reproduced without her consent it does not convey the intimacy that is experienced with a live, interactive performance . So potentially this type of legislation that further regulates image but not experience has the effect of distancing webcamming from porn and the regulation pertaining to it.

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    HMRC classed it as such when we were going back and forth over the VAT issues.
    "If you want to earn more, learn more" ~ Zig Ziglar




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    Quote Originally Posted by sexysusie View Post
    HMRC classed it as such when we were going back and forth over the VAT issues.


    ooh , thats interesting, i would love to see their rationale.

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    It was my rationale based on what is is NOT, as defined in these guidelines https://www.gov.uk/government/public...vate-consumers and they agreed.
    "If you want to earn more, learn more" ~ Zig Ziglar




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    Quote Originally Posted by sexysusie View Post
    It was my rationale based on what is is NOT, as defined in these guidelines https://www.gov.uk/government/public...vate-consumers and they agreed.

    Out of interest what do you define it as NOT being?

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    You might want to read up on it.
    "If you want to earn more, learn more" ~ Zig Ziglar




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    To everyone that I interviewed over the weekend I have emailed out Amazon vouchers in respective currencies . Keep an eye on your in boxes should be with you very shortly.


    Thank you so much for your time and patience, I feel very privileged to been able to interview you


    Rachel xxxxxxx

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  35. #48
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    Default Re: Academic Research

    Ok everyone I did the interview. She was very nice and polite! I thought her project was very interesting and I was happy to help��

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    Default Re: Academic Research

    Quote Originally Posted by rstuart2 View Post

    Which brings us to webcamming and here i should point out categorically that i do not believe that it should be regulated and legislated against any more than any other job in the service sector should be regulated.

    So in answer to your question its a criminology Phd because that is my academic background but my interest is in the lack of legislation pertaining to webcamming and not because i either believe it should be criminalised or want it to be,I categorically do not agree with that in any shape or form. Incidentally my funding is entirely independent as I am funded by the alumni of my university.

    Hope that helps!!!

    Rachel x
    Quote Originally Posted by rstuart2 View Post

    From the point of view of the customer under Section 14 of the Policing and Crime Act 2009 makes it illegal to purchase sexual services from adult prostitutes if they are exploited. There is a reasonable case to make that someone paying a proportion of her earnings to an organization is potentially being financially exploited for the benefit of that organization. Especially when you consider that streamate takes over 60% of a performers earnings , again this is not being implemented and i believe that this is because proximity to the law needs to be sufficiently distant if webcamming is to be absorbed into mainstream economic activity in the current neo-liberal economy.

    Basically it could be legislated against but because of corporate interests it isn't and so it means a form of sex work is being economically mainstreamed and so women are likely to be experiencing it differently to other forms of sex work.

    What regulations do you think camming as a service sector job requires?

    What exactly is the "reasonable" case that performers are "potentially being financially exploited" by Streamate?

    Do you think camming should be mainstreamed?

    How do you plan to use your degree?

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    Default Re: Academic Research

    Quote Originally Posted by SandyTheCheek View Post
    What regulations do you think camming as a service sector job requires?

    What exactly is the "reasonable" case that performers are "potentially being financially exploited" by Streamate?

    Do you think camming should be mainstreamed?

    How do you plan to use your degree?


    Streamate charging over 60% could be described as exploitative.

    I believe that camming is already mainstreamed economically because it is not being legislated and because it benefits corporate interests.

    This isn't a degree, its a PhD and I am using it to explore how women are experiencing a form of sexual labour that is not currently legislated against. My PhD will i hope change the way that women who are involved in sex work are perceived by giving them voice, almost all other sex workers narratives are told for them by others.


    I am not sure that regulation is necessary or practical but the one issue that i keep encountering when i talk to women who cam is issues around their image being used without their consent . If webcammers could be better informed and armed against these infringements that would be helpful. I am not sure that this planet needs anymore regulation but informing workers how they can use existing laws to assert their rights is I believe important

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