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Thread: Obamacare insurance premium increase.

  1. #101
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    Default Re: Obamacare insurance premium increase.

    Quote Originally Posted by rickdugan View Post
    The problem is that older people need, on average, much more than 3x the care that the younger people do. Shifting the premium multiple from 3x to 5x just allows insurance companies to more accurately allocate the true costs of care. That way I no longer have to pay higher premiums for five people just to pay for the care of early retirees and other "older" people.

    Oh, and the insurance for a 25 year old is not "free" just because she is on a parent's plan. If it is an individual marketplace plan, then the parent also has to pay a bloated premium on the child's coverage in order to finance the artificially low premiums charged to the aforementioned early retirees. But not all 25 year olds have parents who are able or willing to extend coverage anyway, so let's not assume facts not in evidence.

    Oh yeah, and those numbers are goofy for the following reasons: (1) Many young individuals can get coverage at far lower than 8k per year; and (2) tax credits would also apply unless the older person is wealthy, in which case he/she can afford to pay for his/her medical coverage anyway.
    and the CBO estimates that if that goofy plan you support gets passed, 24 million people will lose their health insurance. If you don't make enough money with your goofy business to make ends meet, then get a job with benefits, instead of taking health insurance away from 24 million people. You could also stop contributing money to your goofy church that protects priests who rape children and fights to take contraception away from women, and use that to pay for your health insurance.

    Since you're incapable of disagreeing with someone without making nasty, condescending comments, this will be my last response to you. I'm placing you on ignore. I should have done this long ago.
    Last edited by eagle2; 05-18-2017 at 04:30 PM.

  2. #102
    God/dess rickdugan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Obamacare insurance premium increase.

    Quote Originally Posted by eagle2 View Post
    and the CBO estimates that if that goofy plan you support gets passed, 24 million people will lose their health insurance. If you don't make enough money with your goofy business to make ends meet, then get a job with benefits, instead of taking health insurance away from 24 million people. You could also stop contributing money to your goofy church that protects priests who rape children and fights to take contraception away from women, and use that to pay for your health insurance.

    Since you're incapable of disagreeing with someone without making nasty, condescending comments, this will be my last response to you. I'm placing you on ignore. I should have done this long ago.
    Eagle, as far as I know, the CBO hasn't scored the current version of the bill, which went through a lot of changes since the last version. We should probably wait before the CBO actually issues its score for the current bill before we debate how many people might lose insurance and whether that might be a net positive for many of them.

    As far as the rest, ouch. I just said that your numbers were a bit extreme and they were. I admit that I could have found a better word than "goofy" to convey that message, but there was no need for a meltdown over it.

    But I find your solutions interesting. My church, rapey priests and all, also happens to be the largest charitable organization in the world, doing more good works than I can count for the poorest in this country and in many others, including feeding hundreds of thousands of people, if not millions, every single day. For that matter, my small business, as well as the many other small businesses that are being put under strain by all of this, also feed a lot of people in terms of jobs and payments to vendors. So are you suggesting that all of those people should be left hungry so that early retirees can lay on the beach instead of seeking out gainful employment? So these early retirees, many of whom voluntarily reduce their income in order to retire early because someone else now has to pay for their healthcare, have more of a right to my money than hungry children?

  3. #103
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    Default Re: Obamacare insurance premium increase.

    I've got a neurologist calling and ranting at me the past two mornings. Why can't a large group of people start an insurance company ourselves? One that won't cheat doctors to the point that they aren't making money on their services, but the tests instead. Medicare is being dropped everywhere because they aren't converting basic costs (it isn't just the doctor's time, it's also the time the staff spend on the patient, the insurance, the building and general costs, the training staff have to go through yearly,etc).

    Set this unit up so whoever is head has an income cap based on the economy. Cut out sales reps and keep everything streamlined. Start it so preexisting conditions aren't accepted into a predetermined threshold of money saved is hit. Over all have checks to make sure to make sure there isn't over formatting and everyone is paid fairly. Also have checks like I'm Europe that cap the amount that can be spent on a patient. If you pay $1000 for 60 years you will never pay in a million, so perhaps a million is a good cap. A little over, especially since hopefully premiums won't be $1000, but stops stupid crazy spending on one person.

    Perhaps also have it so insurance for each doctor is processed monthly to help reduce man power instead of per patient. Just some ideas. Anyone have thoughts?

  4. #104
    Featured Member Zofia's Avatar
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    Default Re: Obamacare insurance premium increase.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rispy_Girl View Post
    I've got a neurologist calling and ranting at me the past two mornings. Why can't a large group of people start an insurance company ourselves?
    That is what is known as a mutual insurance company. There are a few out there. The bottom line though is there are enormous state and federal law barriers to entry. This creates obstacles for new players to enter the field. Look at the new and even higher barriers imposed by the ACA. Now, on exchange lots of states are down to just two or even one company offering plans. Off exchange there are a few more, in some states. In a few states there are more companies offering health care savings account plans that are pretty good. (Unfortunately not so in my state.) Reducing legal barriers to entry, allowing companies and mutuals to offer either cafeteria plans or multiple plans might work. But, government doesn't like to reduce barriers to anything. Even the AHCA, which is a step in the right direction, doesn't really reduce the barriers to entry all that much.

    Z

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  6. #105
    Featured Member KatyBoleyn's Avatar
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    Default Re: Obamacare insurance premium increase.

    The US is doomed on the whole healthcare thing until the public and medical workers of all stripes can accept that not all medicine is "for profit". In most of the rest of the world, you have a public option of some kind, and then private clinics. Private clinics are competing against the government option...and costs stay down for everyone. I had my second child in Ukraine, at a "Cadillac level" maternity clinic...$7000 total, all inclusive. Western doctors, ultrasounds every time I walked in the door, the latest cutting edge equipment and post-natal care...the works. Considering they had to import these things, its even more impressive.

    And this is where the US fails. ALL medical facilities are either "for profit" or paying prices for equipment and facilities to compete with "for profit" and paying the same costs...not the other way around. Doctors may also want to heal the sick, but primarily they need to pay for their million dollar homes, $200,000+ in med school bills, and fake wives with fake tits at the fake country club. European doctors do live much better than their neighbors...they have the nicer house, have the vacation home in the Alps or on the Black Sea, drive the high end Mercedes...but nowhere near the scale US doctors aspire to. They don't spend half their working hours sitting on the hospital boards scheming about how to jack up prices even more because they deserve it.

    It isn't just the doctors either. Medical technology/devices are surcharged 500-5000% more for the US market. Pharmaceuticals are insane. Medical schools aren't free (or extremely low cost) for anyone that can qualify like in most of the world - you get out of school $200,000 in debt and see what kind of arrogant jackass you become. I'm not invalidating their feelings at all.

    I never ever see that conversation though when we talk about health care. I'm not even getting into what's allowed into the American food supply that absolutely shits on your health in later life...chemicals and practices that are illegal in most of the rest of the world.

    Nope, people just want to debate how insurance works. There's no way out of the rabbit hole if you only limit the conversation to that. If the root causes of healthcare costs aren't addressed, no insurance program in the US will ever work in the long term.

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  8. #106
    Featured Member baer45's Avatar
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    Default Re: Obamacare insurance premium increase.

    Quote Originally Posted by KatyBoleyn View Post
    ............

    Nope, people just want to debate how insurance works. There's no way out of the rabbit hole if you only limit the conversation to that. If the root causes of healthcare costs aren't addressed, no insurance program in the US will ever work in the long term.

    Yes, you tell them girl!
    Everyone wants to take a piece of pie in this healthcare profit. Every ring of this system! Everyone is trying to use its power to make a profit. Insurance companies act like sole broker of this deal. Hospitals, doctors, pharmaceuticals, they all want to charge you a crazy amount because they can! They all have made up their reasons why their services are so expensive except the outside world all have done the same thing a few times cheaper. if you can't afford it, you are doomed. But don't worry, we can always spare a few trillions to feed these blood sucking vampires.


  9. #107
    Featured Member Zofia's Avatar
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    Default Re: Obamacare insurance premium increase.

    Quote Originally Posted by KatyBoleyn View Post
    The US is doomed on the whole healthcare thing until the public and medical workers of all stripes can accept that not all medicine is "for profit".
    Profit is not the problem. Salaries, equipment, malpractice insurance, and the sort are far bigger problems than profits.

    " In most of the rest of the world, you have a public option of some kind, and then private clinics. Private clinics are competing against the government option...and costs stay down for everyone. I had my second child in Ukraine, at a "Cadillac level" maternity clinic...$7000 total, all inclusive. Western doctors, ultrasounds every time I walked in the door, the latest cutting edge equipment and post-natal care...the works. Considering they had to import these things, its even more impressive."
    Yep, and a Ukrainian M.D. makes about 1/3 what his/her American counter-part makes same for the nurses and other medical professionals. In Ukraine, there is very little medical malpractice cost because it is difficult to impossible to successfully sue a doctor, hospital, pharmaceutical company or medical device maker.

    And this is where the US fails. ALL medical facilities are either "for profit"...."
    No, really they are not. Much of the U.S. medical system is not for profit. Their charges are close to the same as the for profit hospitals. Profit or non-profit just determines your tax rate. (Hint, non-profits don't pay income taxes.) In fact, there are good and efficient for profit hospitals and not for profit hospitals.

    Profit is not a four letter word. Remember, without profits, there are no jobs.

    Z

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