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Thread: Obamacare insurance premium increase.

  1. #176
    God/dess baer45's Avatar
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    Default Re: Obamacare insurance premium increase.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Stoner View Post
    MRI's are expensive because A. MRI machines are expensive whether the hospital or radiologist purchased or leased one and B. those without insurance who get MRI's have to be paid for.

    As I have posted before , when Medicaid was passed it was advertised as solid , basic care for those who could not otherwise afford it. Basic health care for poor people.At the time a debate developed as to whether Medicaid would cover everything : cutting edge procedures and therapies , coverage for any and every medical condition regardless of cost or likely outcome of treatment etc. vs. decent, basic health care. At the time it was called "Cadillac vs. Volkswagen ". In the 1980's some states like Oregon tried to innovate to control costs. They tried various forms of rationing. Oregon ranked diseases and conditions from "1" to 500something. "1" was pneumonia because it was easy to diagnose and treat and the consequences of NOT treating it were serious for the patient and society. There was a cut-off and if you had an illness that was rare, expensive to treat with a LOW to Zero likelihood of success it was not covered. Suits were brought and the Supreme Court ruled the scheme to be in violation of the Federal Law establishing Medicaid. I don't recall if they adopted the equal protection argument.

    Most people forget that Medicaid is a Federally mandated state program. Each state gets a portion of its Medicaid costs paid for by the Feds. In N.Y. the Feds pay 50% for NYC, the state pays 25% and NYC pays 25%. In Mississippi the Feds pay 90 %. I don't know what the breakdown for California is but I know the state share for Medi-Cal is huge.

    So when you advocate expanding Medicaid or Medicare , please be careful. The costs are huge and have been going up. Another thing that did NOT happen with Obamacare despite claims that it would.

    I have advocated what Nixon proposed ( and Ted Kennedy went to his grave regretting not supporting ) - government subsidies so that poor people can get private coverage. You can put it out for bids ; take requests for proposals ; give the poor vouchers they can use to buy coverage etc.etc. And you can tweak eligibility to expand the number of people covered by Medicaid .

    Used low-field MRI machines can be as cheap as $150,000 or as expensive as $1.2 million. For a state-of-the-art 3 Tesla MRI machine, the price tag to buy one new can reach $3 million.

    According to a report by IMV Medical Division, the average age of MRI scanners in the United States has risen to 11.4 years as of 2013.

    3,000,000/10= 300,000 cost of year
    300,000/200= 1500 daily cost
    You know a MRI machine in hospital runs more than 200 days a year, sees multiple patients a day.



  2. #177
    God/dess Eric Stoner's Avatar
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    Default Re: Obamacare insurance premium increase.

    Quote Originally Posted by baer45 View Post
    Used low-field MRI machines can be as cheap as $150,000 or as expensive as $1.2 million. For a state-of-the-art 3 Tesla MRI machine, the price tag to buy one new can reach $3 million.

    According to a report by IMV Medical Division, the average age of MRI scanners in the United States has risen to 11.4 years as of 2013.

    3,000,000/10= 300,000 cost of year
    300,000/200= 1500 daily cost
    You know a MRI machine in hospital runs more than 200 days a year, sees multiple patients a day.
    That's right. No argument. Also most MRI machines are leased. Hospital MRI machines can easily be used 300 days a year or more. BUT how many of those MRI's are being done on the uninsured ? Or when the carrier claims that it was not necessary to do an MRI ?
    A
    The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena... who, at the best, knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those timid souls who know neither.
    Teddy Roosevelt

  3. #178
    God/dess baer45's Avatar
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    Default Re: Obamacare insurance premium increase.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Stoner View Post
    That's right. No argument. Also most MRI machines are leased. Hospital MRI machines can easily be used 300 days a year or more. BUT how many of those MRI's are being done on the uninsured ? Or when the carrier claims that it was not necessary to do an MRI ?
    I don't know. you tell me. I just dont believe hospitals are losing money or break even on MRI machine with the price of each MRI scan.



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  5. #179
    God/dess Eric Stoner's Avatar
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    Default Re: Obamacare insurance premium increase.

    Quote Originally Posted by baer45 View Post
    I don't know. you tell me. I just dont believe hospitals are losing money or break even on MRI machine with the price of each MRI scan.
    I didn't say they were. Just that they cost a lot to buy or lease and that money has to be made back.
    A
    The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena... who, at the best, knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those timid souls who know neither.
    Teddy Roosevelt

  6. #180
    God/dess baer45's Avatar
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    Default Re: Obamacare insurance premium increase.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Stoner View Post
    I didn't say they were. Just that they cost a lot to buy or lease and that money has to be made back.
    you can charge $1000 per patient or $10,000, both will make that money back.



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  8. #181
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    Default Re: Obamacare insurance premium increase.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Stoner View Post
    Come on Eagle. This is blatant comparison of an apple to an orange. You want to compare Medicare SPENDING to private insurance PREMIUMS ? And you want to look at PRE-Obamacare Medicare increases ? I'm sorry but where is the relevance to the CURRENT situation ?

    A reason , NOT the only reason but a reason for lower increases in Medicare is that their reimbursement rates have been going DOWN. Hence the growing number of doctors who will not see Medicare patients.
    You said:
    If Medicare's overhead is so low ( and there are studies questioning that claim ) then WHY do the costs of Medicare increase so much year after year ? And that is AFTER allowing for the Baby Boomers coming on stream. The per recipient costs have done nothing but go up every year so it is not just total outlay.
    If you look at the actual figures, the costs of Medicare aren't increasing that much year after year. If you want to look at post-Obamacare Medicare increases:

    https://www.cms.gov/research-statist...act-sheet.html

    Medicare spending grew 4.5% to $646.2 billion in 2015

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  10. #182
    God/dess Eric Stoner's Avatar
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    Default Re: Obamacare insurance premium increase.

    ^^^.Hmmmm. That may be true BUT a LOT of doctors are either not taking Medicare patients or refusing to take on new Medicare patients. And as the Baby Boomers continue to hit 65 the costs are going to do nothing but go up. We still have the peak years of the Baby Boom ( 1954 to 1960 ) yet to go.

    You are correct in that Medicare has not increased as much as Medicaid or private insurance. But it has gone up well ahead of inflation . Your own figures say so.
    A
    The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena... who, at the best, knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those timid souls who know neither.
    Teddy Roosevelt

  11. #183
    God/dess baer45's Avatar
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    Default Re: Obamacare insurance premium increase.

    Sanders introduces universal health care, backed by 15 Democrats

    The bill would revolutionize America’s health-care system, replacing it with a public system that would be paid for by higher taxes. Everything from emergency surgery to prescription drugs, from mental health to eye care, would be covered, with no co-payments. Americans younger than 18 would immediately obtain “universal Medicare cards,” while Americans not currently eligible for Medicare would be phased into the program over four years. Employer-provided health care would be replaced, with the employers paying higher taxes but no longer on the hook for insurance.

    Private insurers would remain, with fewer customers, to pay for elective treatments such as cosmetic surgery — a system similar to that in Australia, which President Trump has praised for having a “much better” insurance regimen than the United States.



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  13. #184
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    Default Re: Obamacare insurance premium increase.

    Quote Originally Posted by baer45 View Post
    Sanders introduces universal health care, backed by 15 Democrats

    The bill would revolutionize America’s health-care system, replacing it with a public system that would be paid for by higher taxes. Everything from emergency surgery to prescription drugs, from mental health to eye care, would be covered, with no co-payments. Americans younger than 18 would immediately obtain “universal Medicare cards,” while Americans not currently eligible for Medicare would be phased into the program over four years. Employer-provided health care would be replaced, with the employers paying higher taxes but no longer on the hook for insurance.

    Private insurers would remain, with fewer customers, to pay for elective treatments such as cosmetic surgery — a system similar to that in Australia, which President Trump has praised for having a “much better” insurance regimen than the United States.
    Another distracting political gimmick. Just what we need.

    This will of course go nowhere and is undoubtedly sponsored by 15 of the most left leaning Dems hailing from places that are very left of center. The reality is that 2/3 of Americans do not want the government to take over healthcare, which Bernie and crew know all too well. Even Obama stopped short of trying to go in that direction, even when he had a Congressional majority.

    But here we go with a ream of pointless articles that will no doubt flood the news sites. What would be much more useful is a real fix for the current broken system, preferably with some input from both sides of the aisle. But I won't hold my breath.

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  15. #185
    God/dess Eric Stoner's Avatar
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    Default Re: Obamacare insurance premium increase.

    Other countries seem to manage with variants on "single payer" systems. Some better than others. I have never automatically said: " Absolutely Not " to any such proposal.The devil is always in the details ; the biggest one being cost.

    Some states like California want to try having their own single payer system. Echoing Justice Brandeis I would like them to be "little social labs of democracy" so we can see whether such a system is possible; how it works and how much it costs. If California wants to risk its already precarious finances , let them.
    A
    The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena... who, at the best, knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those timid souls who know neither.
    Teddy Roosevelt

  16. #186
    God/dess baer45's Avatar
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    Default Re: Obamacare insurance premium increase.

    Quote Originally Posted by rickdugan View Post
    Another distracting political gimmick. Just what we need.

    This will of course go nowhere and is undoubtedly sponsored by 15 of the most left leaning Dems hailing from places that are very left of center. The reality is that 2/3 of Americans do not want the government to take over healthcare, which Bernie and crew know all too well. Even Obama stopped short of trying to go in that direction, even when he had a Congressional majority.

    But here we go with a ream of pointless articles that will no doubt flood the news sites. What would be much more useful is a real fix for the current broken system, preferably with some input from both sides of the aisle. But I won't hold my breath.
    Most likely, this bill will go no where. Again, the lobbyists, bought politicans will scream their hearts out to against it. Obviously this will put some health insurance companies out of work. Further more, this might be the only way that we can touch the high medical cost. When the country become the single payer, it has the power, to tell medical system to lower its cost. When your products only have one buyer, you start to be reasonable because you can't say "I'll just take my business somewhere else".

    Even if it get passed, we need make sure it only covers to citizen and legal immigrants. Just like Australia did, no free healthcare to the rest of the world. Otherwise, it won't last long.

    add. White house is not on board, it seems.
    Last edited by baer45; 09-14-2017 at 08:07 PM.



  17. #187
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    Default Re: Obamacare insurance premium increase.

    Quote Originally Posted by baer45 View Post
    Most likely, this bill will go no where. Again, the lobbyists, bought politicans will scream their hearts out to against it. Obviously this will put some health insurance companies out of work. Further more, this might be the only way that we can touch the high medical cost. When the country become the single payer, it has the power, to tell medical system to lower its cost. When your products only have one buyer, you start to be reasonable because you can't say "I'll just take my business somewhere else".

    Even if it get passed, we need make sure it only covers to citizen and legal immigrants. Just like Australia did, no free healthcare to the rest of the world. Otherwise, it won't last long.

    add. White house is not on board, it seems.
    It sounds good in theory, but it hasn't really worked out that way for the countries that already have a single payer system. When something is "free" some % of users will over-consume. Further, government loses the political will to reign in these costs when certain groups (such as seniors) have a lot of political clout. Universal health has been a real budget buster in countries that have it and they haven't really found a way to control the costs. In some countries, it has led to rationing of medical care and onerous taxes that are debilitating to healthy economic growth.

    Also, when you start pushing down payments, doctors find creative ways to increase their income, such as by making a patient return more frequently than necessary, ordering unnecessary tests, etc. It also has led to doctor shortages in some countries, most notably Canada, where wait times for basic medical tests are absurd.

    I really don't know what the answer is, but I don't trust politicians to do anything correctly, especially something as big and as critical as healthcare. That's because politicians make decisions based upon political concerns rather than sound economic principals. This poorly constructed, largely politically driven train wreck known as Obamacare is Exhibit 1. Do we really want to hand them the reigns to the entire healthcare system?

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  19. #188
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    Default Re: Obamacare insurance premium increase.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Stoner View Post
    Other countries seem to manage with variants on "single payer" systems. Some better than others. I have never automatically said: " Absolutely Not " to any such proposal.The devil is always in the details ; the biggest one being cost.
    As an employer, I would gladly trade our conventional group insurance plan for Medicare at the current Medicare tax cost. The problem is, there is no way the federal government could possibly deliver the services for the current Medicare tax cost. And that is the problem. The U.S. federal government is not very good at doing anything for a reasonable cost.

    Z

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  21. #189
    God/dess baer45's Avatar
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    Default Re: Obamacare insurance premium increase.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zofia View Post
    As an employer, I would gladly trade our conventional group insurance plan for Medicare at the current Medicare tax cost. The problem is, there is no way the federal government could possibly deliver the services for the current Medicare tax cost. And that is the problem. The U.S. federal government is not very good at doing anything for a reasonable cost.

    Z
    yup, 600 million for obamacare website, wasn't even operating correctly. Give that job to google, they will have it running for 6 milion.



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  23. #190
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    Default Re: Obamacare insurance premium increase.

    A new healthcare reform bill has been introduced in the Senate which seems to have a good chance of passing:

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/johngoo.../#770619025481

    I am starting to feel some hope again. Let's hope it isn't false hope.

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    Veteran Member 423texas's Avatar
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    Default Re: Obamacare insurance premium increase.

    Quote Originally Posted by rickdugan View Post
    A new healthcare reform bill has been introduced in the Senate which seems to have a good chance of passing:

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/johngoo.../#770619025481

    I am starting to feel some hope again. Let's hope it isn't false hope.
    It might be tough to pass with "GOP" holdouts like McCain, Murkowski, and Collins.

    Too bad, they can't be bribed the Democrat way. Remember the Cornhusker Kickback, and the Louisiana Purchase. That's what it took to get the ACA passed.

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  26. #192
    God/dess rickdugan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Obamacare insurance premium increase.

    Quote Originally Posted by 423texas View Post
    It might be tough to pass with "GOP" holdouts like McCain, Murkowski, and Collins.

    Too bad, they can't be bribed the Democrat way. Remember the Cornhusker Kickback, and the Louisiana Purchase. That's what it took to get the ACA passed.
    McCain and Collins both hail from states with Republican governors who support the bill and believe that the block grants would work in their states favor, so I am having trouble believing that at least one of them can't be pealed off this time.

    I'm guessing that McCain, who has already indicated that he may reluctantly sign the legislation if his governor supports it (which he does), will finally find the right path.

    Collins is a Republican in name only, but she is going to have a much tougher time justifying a NO vote this time as ME would get more money, not less, under the new bill.

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    Veteran Member RyanXO's Avatar
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    Default Re: Obamacare insurance premium increase.

    McCain just announced opposition.

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  29. #194
    God/dess rickdugan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Obamacare insurance premium increase.

    ^Dammit. Then hopefully they can get Rand and Murkowski on board. The bill built in a nice bone for Alaska, which I have to guess is a payoff for Murkowski's vote. Rand threatened a no vote last time but ended up voting yes, so hopefully they can pull him into the fold too. If the only holdouts are McCain and Collins then they will still get this passed.

  30. #195
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    Crossfingers Re: Obamacare insurance premium increase.

    Graham Cassady health Care bill:

    •Not enough time between now & 9/30 to get an accurate CBO score that tells how many people will lose coverage, as well as what the bill will cost
    It ends individual & employer mandates which'll drive premiums up. It will also end federal subsidies for individual insurance, leaving 32 million uninsured
    •It takes $ going to the states that opted in to Medicaid expansion & distributes it among all states, even those who voted against expansion
    In 2026, funding for Medicaid expansion would end entirely, leaving the state to cover the shortfall
    •It institutes a 1yr freeze on Medicaid reimbursement for Planned Parenthood
    Even tho fed law already prohibits tax $ to fund/finance abortion
    •It allows individual states to define what constitutes an individual benefit which will slash coverage for maternity, cancer treatments/service, ER visits, prescription drugs &many more benefits
    This could also prevent women clinics from charging Medicaid for cancer screening & birth control
    •It allows insurers to.double surcharge for elderly patients (ACA allows insurers to charge older customers 3 X's as much as younger ones. This bill increases that to 5x's as much)
    •It allows insurers to charge higher rates based on health status & it repeals language in the ACA which prevents changing insurance rates after a patient is diagnosed w/a condition

    202-224-3121 US Capitol Switchboard will connect u w Senate office u request
    ResistBot, 50409, text resist to this # you can fax straight to your senator's office, by texting what u want to say
    Last edited by whirlerz; 09-22-2017 at 07:18 PM.

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  32. #196
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    Default Re: Obamacare insurance premium increase.

    Jimmy Kimmel talks about the bill here:


  33. #197
    God/dess rickdugan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Obamacare insurance premium increase.

    Jimmy who? Isn't he an entertainer or something? I think many disagree with his "analysis" if it can be called that.

    Whirlerz, A few odds and ends points in response.

    Right now, 3 states get 37% of all healthcare spending. The bill would redistribute the money based upon the number of poor people in various states. Why should 3 states, including one as small as MA, eat up so much of the healthcare spending?

    As far as your points about lost protections, these would only be true if states applied for waivers, which would require legislative action in those states. State legislatures and governors have voters too last I checked.

    As far as people "losing" health insurance if the mandate goes away, Hallelujah. Many of them don't want the insurance in the first place, especially young healthy people. Though the fact that there are less than 20 million in the marketplace now makes that 32 million number a bit suspect.

    The one thing I disagree with is the sunsetting of the medicaid grants, though I suspect that those would ultimately end up being continued.

    I have my poms poms on as I am beyond sick and tired of the destruction that Obamacare has caused.

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  35. #198
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    Default Re: Obamacare insurance premium increase.

    Well, what would YOU propose, RD?
    I didn't cite my source but it's a social media copy

  36. #199
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    Default Re: Obamacare insurance premium increase.

    I typed something, but screw it. Let the government settle this (though both this and Sanders' bill will likely fail).
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by dpacrkk; 09-24-2017 at 08:41 AM.

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    Default Re: Obamacare insurance premium increase.

    Looks like there are now at least 51 senators against this goofy bill that would take healthcare away from millions of people, so it most likely won't pass.

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