Customer and Dancer Humanity

[gameover]

That was all very dramatic.

To all of that I ask: And?

The fact that I also post on tuscl is not exactly a revelation to most around here. I have been posting on both sites for years. There is also nothing inconsistent about my posts on the two sites - I just talk about different things on each. In fact, if you comb through my posts in the Junkie Forum on this site, you will see some references to some of the same concepts that were raised as shocking revelations in my tuscl posts. Tuscl is just the customer version of Hustle Hut and I tend to be more blunt there. Well, as we tell any blue who comes on here and whines about what he reads in Hustle Hut, if you can't cope with the unvarnished realities that you see behind the curtain, the don't look.

As far as my intentions in posting this, asked and answered several times now. The ladies who so diligently combed through my tuscl posts must have failed to see a more recent comment I posted there about this, where I indicated that the third one was what really made me feel bad and was probably where I felt like I stepped into uncomfortable territory.

Of course I am leveraging money and timing to my best advantage. It's amazing that something that is so commonplace in the clubs seems to be so shocking to a few ex-dancers on here, but it is what is it I suppose. I won't debate the relative morality of this any further because it won't accomplish anything positive. But I do wonder if anyone here actually believes that going without rent, grocery money, electricity, a phone, etc., would have been a better outcome than choosing to earn it OTC. They certainly didn't believe so or else they wouldn't have done it. In fact, most who I've taken out once choose to repeat and some have become long-term "friends."

As far as some of the snarkier comments go, let's keep it civil. You'll notice that I have, despite ample ammunition from a number of melodramatic comments.

As to why I do what I do, the answer is simple: It is the simplest and most discreet way for me to have other adult fun without blowback to my household. Other methods (mistresses, escorts, etc.) come with complications and/or risks that I am unwilling to bear. Read into that what you will, but there it is.

What I think is slimy, is that you post like a defender of dancers on this site, and then post like a total ass-hat on the other site. You are not just softening your tone on this site. You are being duplicitous.

[whirlerz]

trollhunt.jpg

[arielbriel]

It's almost like having multiple personality disorder but this is who this person really is.^ A predator. No different than the many men we encounter in the club but a wolf in sheep's clothing waiting in the bushes till the end of the month when you need to complete your rent or need Christmas gifts or god forbid a natural disaster happens (and he is delighted with the occurrence) with his lousy $300 or less for you to do WHATEVER he wants and god-forbid you don't do it enthusiastically! He'll turn around and fuck your friend/co-worker and thus pin you guys against each other. Truly disgusting. I'm appalled.

[rickdugan]

I can't control what assumptions anyone has made about me, but they certainly haven't been due to any duplicity on my part. I've posted on both sites for years and I've made no secret of it. I've shared my genuine thoughts on each topic in which I have participated, whether here or over there. I don't get into certain topics here because they are not appropriate for this site, but I've also never hidden the fact that I am not running a charity in my dealings with dancers.

Strip clubs are naturally predatory environments where dancers and customers each seek out as much as they can get. What a shock. Indeed, some of the very girls that a few here are so eager to diminish as victims are actually skilled hustlers who I finally landed solely due to timing issues. After all, it doesn't matter how much you made a month ago if you spent it all as you earned it.

The two longest running favorites I ever had are great examples. Both ran romance hustles when they could get away with it. One once had a guy so far gone that he was actually crying in the LD room and sobbing "please don't break up with me" even while she was taking the last of his money after stringing him along for weeks. The other cleaned a guy out so thoroughly that the club manager took pity on him and gave him a job as a bar back so that he could start to pay the enormous credit card balances that he had racked up while visiting this girl for months and taking her to VIP rooms (he was a local guy that some of the staff knew fairly well). Both of these girls knew quite well that these guys could not afford to spend that kind of money and neither cared. The second one even joked to me about what she used to do to keep him on the hook and we used to refer to him as "Home Depot Guy" for a reason that should be obvious.

But even with all of that said, let's be clear about the context of my approach. The girls that I "target" are often among the most attractive and personable girls in the clubs that I visit and they are universally seasoned dancers. I don't pursue new girls, vulnerable 6s with little ability to earn, girls who are drugged up or others who are easily preyed upon, both for humanitarian reasons and because they are just not fun to hang with. I also always treat them with dignity, never remotely push personal boundaries (ITC or OTC) and I often pay them more than fairly for the market I am in, never squeezing them even when I could. All of this is also quite clear in my tuscl posts, but of course those posts were ignored because they didn't play into the theme of those who were pulling my quotes from that site.

So call me a predator if you will, but I am probably one of the most benevolent fucking predators you will ever meet in some of the clubs that I frequent, on either side of the tip rail.

And with that I am going to bail out of this train wreck of a thread.

[miss.a.p1600]

Classic deflect and minimize.


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[ScarletKitten]

Wow. Reading through the last couple of pages just made me even more jaded than I already was. Holy shit.

Some men are even more manipulative than strippers. I'm actually glad this thread exists, because it serves as a warning to other strippers. Beware who you see OTC, if you decide to go down that route at all. It doesn't matter how nice, respectful, or gentlemanly the guy is, he could be manipulating & exploiting you on a level that would make the author of "50 shades of grey" run for the hills.

What gets to me the most is that in the midst of all this shit, he is still a cheapass. $300 to be put through all that misery?! Are you fucking kidding me? At least pay these poor girls properly! He has no sympathy whatsoever, not even for girls on the brink of homelessness or with starving children at home. He laughs, gets his disgusting dick sucked/fucked, throws them pennies, and walks off. He's not helping these girls at all. He is exploiting them and getting off to it, and not even paying them what they are worth.

I am done. My level of disgust for a blue member has reached an all-time high.

[pinups4]

Classic deflect and minimize.

No one is talking about those Home Depot hustle. We talking about those three (or more) women you dealt with.

Those girls are seasoned dancers but they are not seasoned OTC (which is a whole different ball game)

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I don't think the Home Depot hustle and what he's doing is quite as far apart as you might think. However, I am not defending his actions.

I do OTC and ITC (never pushing boundaries, but open to suggesting opportunities if they fit the mood), but I don't sink to using the other party's desperation as being one of the Strategic terms.

If i want her...and she wants what i have to offer....it's a win at that.

If she TRIES to.drain me....beyond my ability or using a weakness i showed. . . Thats wrong

If she FAKES REAL FEELINGS (or I fake feelings...which is not as useful for obvious reasons) in order to trap me...not fair

If i know shes going over her boundaries and im abusing that ... its wrong. If I know she's in crisis and not stable, or beyond "a little" innebriated...and wouldn't normally go for it but is vulnerable,..I'd rather walk and wake up smiling than hit it and feel like a shithead.

Its all gray area but i feel "first....do no harm"

To me, there's a way to play the game, and there's a way not to

. And once you realize that someone's motivations are desperation or that you're driving into a point of desperation. The Game MUST Stop or we will all lose our self respect

. It's okay to take as much as someone will give, it's not okay to push him or her beyond that point when you know it's not right for them or you're using their situation to enrich you while damaging them

it's not fair

Treat others as you'd like to be treated.

An alcoholic drunk at a bar is often not served alcohol. the bartender isn't allowed to profit (and shouldn't want to) off weakness.

[22lligm]

Wait there's more..

Yesterday:
Eh, this will blow over. It isn't the first time that a handful of girls on SW have taken strong objection to something about me and it won't be the last. They turn over on SW about as frequently as in the real strip clubs. I won't ruin several years of careful identity building over a momentary tiff.

Why is he allowed on this forum?

[Genoveve]

He needs a life really bad. He has an obsession.

[arielbriel]

Since this is OUR forum, I vote we ban him and any other predatory blues.

[Selina M]

Isn't it kinda stupid to post his 'identity building' on another public forum that girls are aware of...
Probably hoping when there are new members they won't know about Tuscl and take him at his SW persona, I suppose.

[rickdugan]

I we must cross post my comments from another site, then let's at least do it in context. The "identity building" I was referring to was not my own. Scroll up in that thread to follow along with the conversation.

[PhatGirlDynomite!!!]

Yes that pertains to a situation where the OP of the this thread is aware of a member on this forum who pretends to be a dancer. But in fact they are a male who has built up a persona for at least two years here on SW. This is what the op was referring to when he said "identity building."

[PhatGirlDynomite!!!]

I we must cross post my comments from another site, then let's at least do it in context. The "identity building" I was referring to was not my own. Scroll up in that thread to follow along with the conversation.

The OP is correct that there is more to this.

[pierrepaul]

LOL - this thread is too funny. First, a guy with over 3500 posts in just under 7 years (that comes to over 1 post per day) posts a fact pattern where he knows 100% that he's going to get a multi-page reaction of righteous indignation. And guess what? - he gets 9 pages of righteous indignation! It must be a slow week.

[22lligm]

But doesnt this still apply to Rick himself ..

"Eh, this will blow over. It isn't the first time that a handful of girls on SW have taken strong objection to something about me and it won't be the last. They turn over on SW about as frequently as in the real strip clubs."

ETA: Why is he so obsessed with sex workers and strip club life in general that he's dedicated so much time to watch the 'turn over' of SW members. Get a life dude.

[22lligm]

Since this is OUR forum, I vote we ban him and any other predatory blues.

Yes please!

[We had a rabbit like you]

Yes that pertains to a situation where the OP of the this thread is aware of a member on this forum who pretends to be a dancer. But in fact they are a male who has built up a persona for at least two years here on SW. This is what the op was referring to when he said "identity building."

I'm officially creeped out now, has this person been banned?? Ack lol

[whirlerz]

I'm officially creeped out now, has this person been banned?? Ack lol

Pretty much unanimous?

[DonaDiabla]

Actually, RickDugan, you showing this "new" side on here is quite interesting to me. Personally, I always viewed you as wolfish man who appears to be sweet and thoughtful on here. Indeed, I have seen your other posts on that other website and I was not shocked out all. However, I will say that I doubt that you always pick skilled hustlers to play with. You pick strippers who lack emotional experience and hustling abilities that goes with OTC.
You know, you should pick women with the same predatory skills as yourself. Ice princesses and Black widow strippers will be a great match you. However, you never pick these types of women? Most strippers are at disadvantage when you asked them to take up your OTC offers. Your locker room talk reveals something odd about yourself. You are quite Machiavellian and icy ( Which would be great for black widow types, ice princess, and femme fatales) but you are not good for normal strippers. This my two cents on your personality and so forth

I can't control what assumptions anyone has made about me, but they certainly haven't been due to any duplicity on my part. I've posted on both sites for years and I've made no secret of it. I've shared my genuine thoughts on each topic in which I have participated, whether here or over there. I don't get into certain topics here because they are not appropriate for this site, but I've also never hidden the fact that I am not running a charity in my dealings with dancers.

Strip clubs are naturally predatory environments where dancers and customers each seek out as much as they can get. What a shock. Indeed, some of the very girls that a few here are so eager to diminish as victims are actually skilled hustlers who I finally landed solely due to timing issues. After all, it doesn't matter how much you made a month ago if you spent it all as you earned it.

The two longest running favorites I ever had are great examples. Both ran romance hustles when they could get away with it. One once had a guy so far gone that he was actually crying in the LD room and sobbing "please don't break up with me" even while she was taking the last of his money after stringing him along for weeks. The other cleaned a guy out so thoroughly that the club manager took pity on him and gave him a job as a bar back so that he could start to pay the enormous credit card balances that he had racked up while visiting this girl for months and taking her to VIP rooms (he was a local guy that some of the staff knew fairly well). Both of these girls knew quite well that these guys could not afford to spend that kind of money and neither cared. The second one even joked to me about what she used to do to keep him on the hook and we used to refer to him as "Home Depot Guy" for a reason that should be obvious.

But even with all of that said, let's be clear about the context of my approach. The girls that I "target" are often among the most attractive and personable girls in the clubs that I visit and they are universally seasoned dancers. I don't pursue new girls, vulnerable 6s with little ability to earn, girls who are drugged up or others who are easily preyed upon, both for humanitarian reasons and because they are just not fun to hang with. I also always treat them with dignity, never remotely push personal boundaries (ITC or OTC) and I often pay them more than fairly for the market I am in, never squeezing them even when I could. All of this is also quite clear in my tuscl posts, but of course those posts were ignored because they didn't play into the theme of those who were pulling my quotes from that site.

So call me a predator if you will, but I am probably one of the most benevolent fucking predators you will ever meet in some of the clubs that I frequent, on either side of the tip rail.

And with that I am going to bail out of this train wreck of a thread.

[Djoser]

Well put, as usual DonaD.

Rick, I've seen guys so much worse than you (as far as I can tell from what I've read, though I skipped over the quotes from Tuscle because that shit always bores the crap out of me), so I can't get as heated as some of the women here. Of course, I've worked in a couple very rough clubs, and even the nicest clubs can get rough. I've seen sooo many serious sociopaths of both sexes, without the slightest trace of empathy or conscience. Hordes of them.


But the two things that really stand out here in my mind are:

1) You made 3 women cry in what, 2 weeks? That's pretty sad to hear. You're doing something wrong. I should think that would be obvious.

2) Then you started a thread here in a stripper support forum about it. Why man, why?

I don't doubt you have a good side, and you might be genuinely questioning your actions, and maybe seeking feedback, or striving somehow to improve yourself as far as dealing with women in a more considerate fashion. But for god's sake man, if you know strippers as well as you should--after so many years dealing with them, and all that money--even at 'hardship discount' rates (sorry but that does piss me off a little too)--you should have known the reaction you would get here.

[Djoser]

This is why Hustle Hut needs to be private and closed off to all blues.

I will ask the senior mod about that.

[rickdugan]

Well put, as usual DonaD.

Rick, I've seen guys so much worse than you (as far as I can tell from what I've read, though I skipped over the quotes from Tuscle because that shit always bores the crap out of me), so I can't get as heated as some of the women here. Of course, I've worked in a couple very rough clubs, and even the nicest clubs can get rough. I've seen sooo many serious sociopaths of both sexes, without the slightest trace of empathy or conscience. Hordes of them.


But the two things that really stand out here in my mind are:

1) You made 3 women cry in what, 2 weeks? That's pretty sad to hear. You're doing something wrong. I should think that would be obvious.

2) Then you started a thread here in a stripper support forum about it. Why man, why?

I don't doubt you have a good side, and you might be genuinely questioning your actions, and maybe seeking feedback, or striving somehow to improve yourself as far as dealing with women in a more considerate fashion. But for god's sake man, if you know strippers as well as you should--after so many years dealing with them, and all that money--even at 'hardship discount' rates (sorry but that does piss me off a little too)--you should have known the reaction you would get here.

Agreed on all fronts. My intentions were genuine - I started this while riding a wave of guilt over the third girl in particular and was legitimately seeking feedback. But in hindsight this was definitely a case of "Ready, Fire, Aim." I have felt bad enough about what happened, in particular with the third one, that I haven't been in a club in well over a month, which is a long time for me. It has made me re-examine some of my assumptions and will inevitably lead to changes in how I do things. I actually took away some good feedback before the train went off the rails, so thank you to everyone who provided it.

Anyway, my apologies to any of the ladies who were put off by this thread, which clearly should never have been started in the first place.

As a side note, I also agree that Hustle Hut should be Ladies Only. There is no reason why blues should be reading advice that the dancers are sharing with each other about how to earn. While you are exploring fixes for the site, you might also float the idea of some way of verifying that the adult entertainers who have access to the sensitive parts of this site are actually adult entertainers. For example, while I'm sure that some of the outrage and anger communicated about the topics discussed in this thread were quite real, sadly some of it was also on the manufactured side.

[PhatGirlDynomite!!!]

Speaking of legitimacy and manufactured responses, would the op care to reveal which member is pretending to be a dancer here on stripperweb? Once again deflecting.

[rickdugan]

Speaking of legitimacy and manufactured responses, would the op care to reveal which member is pretending to be a dancer here on stripperweb? Once again deflecting.

I'm not remotely deflecting. I've said what I said and did what I did. Over the years I've made a lot of goofy comments on the other site, which has been an ancillary part of my entertainment vis-a-vis strip clubs. It's a customer board. Now what wasn't reflected here were the many comments I've made over the years on that board also outlining the limits to what I am willing to do, so I would contend that the cross posting was lacking in balance - intentionally so I suspect. But I own what I've said over there and I have also apologized here for starting a thread that, in hindsight, I never should have started.

The troll activity is a secondary issue, though related insofar as they exacerbated certain issues in this thread. I'm not going to start naming screen names here because it will become an endless quagmire of accusation and denial - none of them have been so blatant as to leave an obvious smoking gun. But members of that board have certainly alluded to it and those of us who are regular posters there are fairly certain as to who they are, though not enough to convict them in a court of law. But consider this: How did certain members of this board know where to find all of the most reaction provoking posts that I have ever made on that site? Some of the threads that some of those posts were drawn from were several years old. Either these members really scrolled through thousands of my posts over time or they already knew of the existence of those posts because they participated in the same threads.

Again, I own what I've said and done, as out of context and unbalanced though that selective cross posting may have been. And again, I feel bad for starting a thread that caused both legitimate anger and opportunistic trolling. Hindsight is 20/20 and I never should have explored this on here to begin with.