Results 1 to 13 of 13

Thread: Intellectual property meets Streamate video function

  1. #1
    Featured Member DancesWithSloths's Avatar
    Joined
    Jun 2014
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    1,427
    Thanks
    2,756
    Thanked 3,023 Times in 990 Posts

    Default Intellectual property meets Streamate video function

    Folks, I have really grave concerns about SM's move to take over rights to all video sold through their system. Let's go through the FAQ:

    "Who owns the videos I upload?

    As with all content on our system, to be compliant with federal law, content uploaded to our platform becomes our property."
    There's absolutely nothing in any federal law that says content uploaded to a web marketplace has to become the property of server owners. Otherwise Apple would own property rights for every album on iTunes. Whoever wrote this is either mistaken or lying. All they need is to have the rights to re-broadcast the work.

    You retain ownership as well, but we also maintain the right to use the content. Click here to review your full Performer/Studio Agreement.
    These two sentences contradict each other. There's nothing in the Agreement we've all already signed, as it stands today, that implies we maintain any kind of ownership over video. Quite the contrary:

    Performer/Studio will upload and transmit content in the form of images, video, sounds, and/or text (referred to herein as “content”) to and through Streamate’s systems for re-broadcast. All content uploaded to the systems by Performer/Studio shall be works made for hire under the United States Copyright Act, as amended, to the extent eligible; otherwise, Performer/Studio hereby assigns all rights, title and interests in such content to Streamate. Streamate shall then own all such content, and Streamate will have the sole discretion to use any such content in any way it so chooses, including but not limited to in any medium and in any promotion, distribution, advertising, sales and marketing efforts, both during and after the term of this Agreement.
    Do you see any "you retain ownership"? I don't. I see an ownership claim for every shred of content ever uploaded to SM servers. If the performer agreement applies, SM doesn't have to honour what they wrote in the FAQ at all.

    Again, whoever wrote that line in the FAQ is either mistaken, or deliberately lying.

    So here's a question. What can we, as independent creatives, do to clarify our position and not sign away our intellectual property?

    I personally see several options:

    1. Approach SM with the view to renegotiate the agreement; get either a personal contract without this absurd rights grab, or get them to fix the agreement for everyone. (Might be a pain in the ass, and would ideally require a lawyer.)
    2. Upload only recordings of the live stream.
    3. Upload only cheaply priced trailers for full videos sold elsewhere.
    4. Not upload any video at all; if guys ask, say, "I don't sell videos on this network because of their copyright stance."

    What does everyone else think?

    ETA: I'm not a lawyer, but I've worked in the media on both ends of a publishing contract, so I have some experience with reading them. This one stinks.
    Last edited by DancesWithSloths; 12-02-2017 at 08:55 AM. Reason: typo omg


  2. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to DancesWithSloths For This Useful Post:


  3. #2
    Veteran Member AuroraJade's Avatar
    Joined
    Feb 2017
    Posts
    734
    Thanks
    144
    Thanked 1,696 Times in 551 Posts
    My Mood
    Happy

    Default Re: Intellectual property meets Streamate video function

    I personally go with option 4. With me quitting cam at one day I am already phasing out videos and social media. Also deleted my twitter yesterday.

    I am not gonna get plastered all over the internet by SM's shady affiliates. They already use your album pictures while I opted out of promotion and thats bad enough. Had to report a promoter page to Twitter yesterday for using my pics.

  4. #3
    God/dess Blovely's Avatar
    Joined
    May 2011
    Location
    N/A
    Posts
    2,358
    Thanks
    20,318
    Thanked 6,330 Times in 1,820 Posts

    Default Re: Intellectual property meets Streamate video function

    I asked about ownership and similar things in the SM thread because I know how SM and most of these sites roll. Liz never came back to answer the questions that some of us had. Not tryna to be snarky but lol at the first suggestion. SM is not going to renegotiate anything, they don't even listen to us when we complain about the site issues or make suggestions about how they can improve the site. I mean look at how long it took them to even implement this video feature. Models thought of a work around to sell their content because SM refused to incorporate content selling and now like 5 years later they're finally rolling out the option to sell videos.

    Anyways most websites own rights to whatever content is uploaded to their servers, its in most website's TOS. Not trying to be harsh here but if you don't want SM to have any control or rights over your content your best bet is to not upload any pictures or videos to their site. They sell our privates without even telling us and they don't give us a dime from those sales. I personally just can't trust that my content won't be used by affiliates or used in the future by SM themsevles for advertising or resale.

    An even if SM says that they don't own our content affiliates do not give a fuck about rules and will use our content to bring in sales or they'll resale it in places that we don't know about. I recently found a Pornhub account where an affiliate used my name and pictures. He took a whole album of pictures that I posted on my SM profile in which I had watermarked with my cammodel watermark. This dude saved those picture cropped out the watermark and posted them on Pornhub pretending to be me so that he could push traffic to his whitelabel. This dude has also recorded a video of a SM model where she was nude from the bottom down playing with a dildo while trying make her GS goal. He posted that video on a tube site and used my name so now whenever you google my name that video comes up and of course he did that to again push traffic to his SM whitelabel. Now this isn't SM's fault at all but my point is, is that their affiliates will do whatever it takes to get sales so I do not trust that they won't get a hold of the mass amount of content that will be uploaded with this video feature and use it to profit off of us in every way possible.

    All and all I think putting content on SM is a gamble that should be seriously thought about especially when we probably won't be able to delete it easily and aren't even getting industry rate for it. I personally would only upload edited live streams and keep higher quality content for sites like C4s, Manyvids, Iwantclips, etc because I do not trust SM or their affiliates. An even with recorded live streams you still have to worry about these affiliates and their shenanigans.
    Last edited by Blovely; 12-01-2017 at 07:52 AM.

  5. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Blovely For This Useful Post:


  6. #4
    Featured Member IvyRose's Avatar
    Joined
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    1,511
    Thanks
    6,060
    Thanked 6,479 Times in 1,352 Posts
    My Mood
    Psychedelic

    Default Re: Intellectual property meets Streamate video function

    Def number 4
    streamate has always been upfront about them having rights of everything you stream through them (vid, voice, everything you write down... just EVERYTHING
    so it does not surprise me that they made a simular contract concerning the vids you upload

    If I would make vids, which I dont for obvious reasons (getting plastered all over the webs) I would def use livecammodelshow to sell them, and get 85%

    I would never put my videos, selfmade, on a website that will claim all rights and ownership over the vids
    Indy is the way to go to sell vids 100% ownership
    You can have everything in life you want, if you will just help enough other people get what they want - Zig Ziglar

    "Be thankful for the troubles of your job. They provide about half your income Robert R. Updegraff


  7. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to IvyRose For This Useful Post:


  8. #5
    Featured Member IvyRose's Avatar
    Joined
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    1,511
    Thanks
    6,060
    Thanked 6,479 Times in 1,352 Posts
    My Mood
    Psychedelic

    Default Re: Intellectual property meets Streamate video function

    Quote Originally Posted by blovely View Post

    anyways most websites own rights to whatever content is uploaded to their servers, its in most website's tos. Not trying to be harsh here but if you don't want sm to have any control or rights over your content your best bet is to not upload any pictures or videos to their site. They sell our privates without even telling us and they don't give us a dime from those sales. I personally just can't trust that my content won't be used by affiliates or used in the future by sm themsevles for advertising or resale.


    All and all i think putting content on sm is a gamble that should be seriously thought about especially when we probably won't be able to delete it easily and aren't even getting industry rate for it. I personally would only upload edited live streams and keep higher quality content for sites like c4s, manyvids, iwantclips, etc because i do not trust sm or their affiliates. An even with recorded live streams you still have to worry about these affiliates and their shenanigans.
    yasssss ^
    You can have everything in life you want, if you will just help enough other people get what they want - Zig Ziglar

    "Be thankful for the troubles of your job. They provide about half your income Robert R. Updegraff


  9. The Following User Says Thank You to IvyRose For This Useful Post:


  10. #6
    Featured Member DancesWithSloths's Avatar
    Joined
    Jun 2014
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    1,427
    Thanks
    2,756
    Thanked 3,023 Times in 990 Posts

    Default Re: Intellectual property meets Streamate video function

    Quote Originally Posted by Blovely View Post
    Not tryna to be snarky but lol at the first suggestion. SM is not going to renegotiate anything, they don't even listen us when we complain about the site issues or make suggestions about how they can improve the site.
    That's not quite accurate. Eg, in the past I've successfully negotiated for a permission to sell my old pro videos that have URLs of different companies as watermarks. I've seen models selling DVDs, presumably having got the permission to send them out to a physical address. Every time a model asks Liz to "make a note on her account" that she's allowed to do something out of the ordinary, it's a kind of renegotiation.

    I totally agree that taking on the entire behemoth to fix the agreement for everyone is quite a Don Quixote vs windmills situation. Still, contracts are there to be negotiated.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blovely View Post
    Anyways most websites own rights to whatever content is uploaded to their servers, its in most website's TOS.
    I don't know about most websites, but I have accounts on AW, NF, and MV, none of which ask people to sign over their intellectual property rights.

    What SM is doing is a mind-bogglingly shameless rights grab.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blovely View Post
    Not trying to be harsh here but if you don't want SM to have any control or rights over your content your best bet is to not upload any pictures or videos to their site.
    Totally agree that this is the best bet right now. I'm not handing over the ownership of my business assets; that's ludicrous.

    However, in terms of making money from content, this is lose/lose, ie I make nothing, and neither does SM. If they agree to update the agreement to, eg, license the content instead of just taking it, it's win/win.

    (Go ahead and be snarky, btw, it's all good.)


  11. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to DancesWithSloths For This Useful Post:


  12. #7
    Featured Member DancesWithSloths's Avatar
    Joined
    Jun 2014
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    1,427
    Thanks
    2,756
    Thanked 3,023 Times in 990 Posts

    Default Re: Intellectual property meets Streamate video function

    Relevant clauses on other content platforms for comparison.

    Niteflirt: "With respect to goods, services, and other items which you sell through Goodies, you retain your preexisting intellectual property and other rights therein, granting to the Site only such limited and non-exclusive rights and licenses reasonably necessary to permit and effectuate your sale of those items through Goodies and NiteFlirt's general advertising and promotion of the Site, except as may otherwise be specifically authorized in a separate written agreement."

    Manyvids: "By using the Platform, you retain all control and all of your legitimate ownership rights in your Content, and Users are granted nothing more than the right to view or buy your Content. You agree and understand that MV may make use of your Content for promotional or commercial purposes only and to render the services pursuant to these TOS, and therefore you hereby grant MV a perpetual, unlimited, royalty-free, worldwide, nonexclusive, irrevocable and transferrable license to run, copy, reproduce, publish, communicate, bundle, distribute, market, create derivative works of, adapt, translate, transmit, arrange, modify, alter, sublicense, export, host, make available or otherwise use your Content, alone or in combination with other works, including, but not limited to, text, data, images, photographs, illustrations, animation, graphics, video, or audio segments and hypertext links, by means of any technology, whether now known or hereafter to become known. You hereby represent that you have the right to grant the license stated above.

    Clips4Sale: "5.7.2. The copyright of all content uploaded by You is retained by You."


  13. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to DancesWithSloths For This Useful Post:


  14. #8
    Featured Member IvyRose's Avatar
    Joined
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    1,511
    Thanks
    6,060
    Thanked 6,479 Times in 1,352 Posts
    My Mood
    Psychedelic

    Default Re: Intellectual property meets Streamate video function

    Quote Originally Posted by DancesWithSloths View Post
    Relevant clauses on other content platforms for comparison.

    Niteflirt: "With respect to goods, services, and other items which you sell through Goodies, you retain your preexisting intellectual property and other rights therein, granting to the Site only such limited and non-exclusive rights and licenses reasonably necessary to permit and effectuate your sale of those items through Goodies and NiteFlirt's general advertising and promotion of the Site, except as may otherwise be specifically authorized in a separate written agreement."

    Manyvids: "By using the Platform, you retain all control and all of your legitimate ownership rights in your Content, and Users are granted nothing more than the right to view or buy your Content. You agree and understand that MV may make use of your Content for promotional or commercial purposes only and to render the services pursuant to these TOS, and therefore you hereby grant MV a perpetual, unlimited, royalty-free, worldwide, nonexclusive, irrevocable and transferrable license to run, copy, reproduce, publish, communicate, bundle, distribute, market, create derivative works of, adapt, translate, transmit, arrange, modify, alter, sublicense, export, host, make available or otherwise use your Content, alone or in combination with other works, including, but not limited to, text, data, images, photographs, illustrations, animation, graphics, video, or audio segments and hypertext links, by means of any technology, whether now known or hereafter to become known. You hereby represent that you have the right to grant the license stated above.
    Why even bother using streamate, with their absurd contract. IF I would sell vids I would personally go either Indy or Manyvids, because I know a lot of models who do really exceptionally well on manyvids
    the guys will search and find you, and you will have a better contract and a better payout (unless you dont care about the conrtract and make the sm prices higher to match the payout of the other sites)
    You can have everything in life you want, if you will just help enough other people get what they want - Zig Ziglar

    "Be thankful for the troubles of your job. They provide about half your income Robert R. Updegraff


  15. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to IvyRose For This Useful Post:


  16. #9
    God/dess seashell's Avatar
    Joined
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Lucid Dreaming
    Posts
    3,524
    Thanks
    6,585
    Thanked 8,120 Times in 2,627 Posts
    My Mood
    Angelic

    Default Re: Intellectual property meets Streamate video function

    I have a few vids uploaded to Streamate. I was happy about the 50% payout, but this is ridiculous. Ugh... I should know better by now. Why ya gotta be so greedy, SM?

  17. The Following User Says Thank You to seashell For This Useful Post:


  18. #10
    Featured Member IvyAdams's Avatar
    Joined
    Sep 2014
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    990
    Thanks
    4,008
    Thanked 3,439 Times in 799 Posts
    My Mood
    Happy

    Default Re: Intellectual property meets Streamate video function

    I remember talking about this in one of these threads back when they were "testing" out the platform with a few models. The issue for me isn't even that they own the rights, I feel like that is a given because of the fact that they state that with everything on their platform. The issue is the fact that they are trying to convince people that it's the law. As if models don't know the laws regarding content ownership LOL

    Even MFCShare states: "The content rights are covered by the Model Agreement (same as your MFC stream and profile photos), but basically:
    The model owns the rights to all content.
    MFC has a license to display the content."


    Public Snapchat: ivy_adams

    *



  19. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to IvyAdams For This Useful Post:


  20. #11
    Featured Member IvyRose's Avatar
    Joined
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    1,511
    Thanks
    6,060
    Thanked 6,479 Times in 1,352 Posts
    My Mood
    Psychedelic

    Default Re: Intellectual property meets Streamate video function

    Quote Originally Posted by seashell View Post
    I have a few vids uploaded to Streamate. I was happy about the 50% payout, but this is ridiculous. Ugh... I should know better by now. Why ya gotta be so greedy, SM?
    the 50% surprised me, since it is high for sm standards
    BUT you can still do better on a lot of sites selling vids %wise

    I think sm knew a lot of girls woudnt even bother if they would go even less %
    You can have everything in life you want, if you will just help enough other people get what they want - Zig Ziglar

    "Be thankful for the troubles of your job. They provide about half your income Robert R. Updegraff


  21. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to IvyRose For This Useful Post:


  22. #12
    Featured Member DancesWithSloths's Avatar
    Joined
    Jun 2014
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    1,427
    Thanks
    2,756
    Thanked 3,023 Times in 990 Posts

    Default Re: Intellectual property meets Streamate video function

    Quote Originally Posted by IvyAdams View Post
    The issue for me isn't even that they own the rights, I feel like that is a given because of the fact that they state that with everything on their platform. The issue is the fact that they are trying to convince people that it's the law.
    Right? "Because of this law that I just invented, if you show a movie in my cinema, this movie is now my property."

    How about NOPE


  23. The Following 8 Users Say Thank You to DancesWithSloths For This Useful Post:


  24. #13
    God/dess caramelcraze's Avatar
    Joined
    Apr 2013
    Location
    the burbs
    Posts
    2,888
    Thanks
    3,042
    Thanked 7,572 Times in 2,008 Posts
    My Mood
    Busy

    Default Re: Intellectual property meets Streamate video function

    My lawyer started laughing his ass off when I sent him the amended agreement. He's WA bar accredited (which is where sm headquarters is) & basically said they will have one hell of a time in court if they really want to take intellectual property, claim ownership due to a non-existent law, and resell it royalty free.

    Their asses are going to get sued if they seriously try that shit.

    I'm going with option 2 btw. might as well make money off the streams we already know they're posting elsewhere for free.

  25. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to caramelcraze For This Useful Post:


Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 34
    Last Post: 12-26-2017, 10:25 PM
  2. Video always goes blurry when I move around... (streamate, logitech c920)??
    By amberlicious2323 in forum Camming Connection
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 05-17-2016, 08:43 AM
  3. Will Streamate support ever help me with my video/audio Live?
    By cutiecam in forum Camming Connection
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 01-18-2016, 10:56 PM
  4. Audio/video out of sync on Streamate?
    By Smurfette in forum Other Work
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 03-28-2011, 12:33 PM
  5. How do you change video source on streamate?
    By BBWChanel in forum Other Work
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 01-27-2011, 05:36 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •