NYC Could Lose More Than Half Its Strip Clubs

[Eric Stoner]

Having a "reduced future quality of life" is far better than not having a life at all, and there is a lot that can be done so that people don't have a "reduced future quality of life" without endangering millions of people.



The one person I know who passed away, was doing everything he could possibly do to avoid catching the virus, but because he had someone living with him who wasn't, he ended up catching it. This is something you and Eric refuse to acknowledge. People who are at risk from the virus do not live in isolated communities, and cannot completely avoid having contact with people who aren't. The more people who catch this virus who aren't high risk, the more likely it is that they will spread it to people who are at high risk.

This is why I say you're minimizing the seriousness of the pandemic. Approximately 1/2 million Americans have died from covid, and you're reducing this to, "the relative tiny % who died from it." 1/2 million deaths in less than a year is a very high number by any standard. For people who are at high risk, it is not a tiny %.

Rick has been talking about the death rates . The overall death rate per 1 million of population and the death rate among Covid positive people. Most of whom did NOT get sick. You need to tortuously read his posts to say he doesn't care. He does care about Covid patients BUT he ( and I ) care just as much for those who have suffered devastating consequences from the lockdowns. We have robbed most of our children of a serious education ( from Pre-K through graduate school ) even though they are in the lowest risk group. We have devastated hospitality businesses ( and their contractors and suppliers ) and their employees. Sometimes Lockdown advocates talk and behave as though closing schools and businesses are totally benign ; that there are no consequences for doing so and that we can continue to do so indefinitely.

[Selina M]

Sure, FL's lockdowns were hardly inconvenient if you don't have school age children or work in the many millions of jobs in Florida's service businesses. Heck my income actually went up during the pandemic while my expenses went down because I did not have to fund travel. Other people in certain essential fields were getting tons of OT. For some it was a downright bonanza.

But Florida has almost 3 million school children, many with low income parents who would not be able to work due to childcare issues. Closing schools had a myriad of deep educationally and psychologically consequences, which would have been exacerbated if they had dragged on into this school year. Even our brief closures in FL triggered a massive strain on our child mental health system.

FL also lost millions of jobs during the shutdowns in countless service and retail businesses, including restaurants because many of them closed completely and those that did not were running on skeleton crews for takeout. And of course since this is stripperweb, let's not forget the many thousands of dancers and support staff who rely upon FL's vibrant strip club scene for their living.

So for some it's easy to take the position that every life potentially saved is worth suffering and permanent harm for easily 10s of millions nationwide, even if we can't actually measure how many lives would have been saved by more stringent lockdowns ala CA. They are comfy and don't have to bear the brunt of those decisions - others do. But as a parent to 3 kids and someone who saw what those FL shutdowns did firsthand to a number of more vulnerable people, I (understandably I hope) have a different perspective.

You have entirely missed the point of my post. The point was that the lockdowns in many states were so lax that there was no way they could have completely quashed spread. I didn't get into anything further than that so waxing on about lost jobs is off-topic in that respect.

Edit: You know what... I'm just going to say it. Stop acting like you're actually concerned about dancer livelihoods, "the more vulnerable", restaurant workers, etc. We all know it's bullshit.

[rickdugan]

You have entirely missed the point of my post. The point was that the lockdowns in many states were so lax that there was no way they could have completely quashed spread. I didn't get into anything further than that so waxing on about lost jobs is off-topic in that respect.

Edit: You know what... I'm just going to say it. Stop acting like you're actually concerned about dancer livelihoods, "the more vulnerable", restaurant workers, etc. We all know it's bullshit.

I am truly sorry if I missed your point. I agree that FL's lockdown was lighter than many places, but even still it was devastating to everyone I outlined above. FL's Governor was trying to spare as many people as possible from all of the economic, educational and psychological harm discussed above. Also, if CA and NY are any indications, more severe lockdowns were no more effective in doing anything besides delaying the inevitable, but rather have just compounded the human suffering by several magnitudes.

But you're wrong about my motives. I am involved in some community outreach programs (food drives, direct donations to immigrant households) and I saw firsthand the severe harm caused by school and business closures. It was horrible and frankly made me angry as both a parent and a human being. IMO nobody should be forced into economic helplessness by their own governments and that includes dancers, especially for something that is just not deadly to most younger people.

[eagle2]

That IS a major issue. What WILL things be like when the pandemic subsides ? To listen to Fauci , our Special Needs President and some other politicians, this pandemic will ALWAYS be with us ; our lives will never return to "normal" etc. To listen to the Teacher's Unions , they don't ever want to go back to poorly ventilated classrooms filled with runny nosed brats whose parents want them to act as baby-sitters. Even ultra-Libs like Lori Lightfoot are getting fed up with the Teachers.

Eagle has been repeatedly asked how much economic damage he is willing to tolerate to pursue ephemeral protection against Covid ? He never answers. I have posted the latest numbers for both Florida and Caliphonia clearly showing that the Covid numbers for the latter are no better than for the former. The three states with the worst death rates for Covid are Caliphonia , New York and New Jersey. The overwhelming number of deaths have occurred in people over 60 and most of them had at least one co-morbidity . Deaths as a result of the Lockdowns cut across ALL ages with the most serious impact among the working and middle classes. Eagle refuses to acknowledge any casualties from the Lockdowns. I've asked but I honestly don't know how he justifies the increases in suicides , overdoses and untreated illnesses which are diorectly related to the lockdowns and the economic damage resulting therefrom. It is passing strange for him to try and claim that Rick doesn't "care" about Covid victims when it looks like Eagle doesn't care about those casualties.

The bottom line is very simple. If Lockdowns truly worked then Caliphonia and New York would have whiz bang Covid numbers compared to states like Florida. They don't. In fact their numbers are worse.

I wasn't going to post again, but since you're figures are so way off, I'm going to correct them. California's figures are not worse than Florida's, at least if you're going by death rate. California's death rate is 1,232 per million. Florida's is 1,382 per million. CA, NY, and NJ, all have high death rates because they waited too long to shut down. Washington was the first state to lockdown, and has a far lower death rate than Florida. Washington's death rate is 642 deaths per million. Florida's death rate is more than twice as high. Texas' death rate is also more than twice as high. Alabama, Arizona, Mississippi, and South Dakota all have death rates more than three times as high as Washington's. The overall death rate for the United States is close to 2 1/2 times as high as Washington's.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/

If the US had the same death rate as Washington, close to 300,000 lives would have been saved, and there is no reason to think it wouldn't have, if the entire US followed the same policies.

[rickdugan]

If the US had the same death rate as Washington, close to 300,000 lives would have been saved, and there is no reason to think it wouldn't have, if the entire US followed the same policies.

That is wild speculation. There are too many other other variables to count besides the precise moment of lockdowns or their duration, including population densities, population transience, airport traffic (including international flights), widespread use of mass transit, population age, cultural risk tolerances, etc., etc.

And let me stop you from cherry picking any one of the potentially endless variables in some false belief that the single variable makes your case, as you are sometimes apt to do. There are any combination of these variables in play depending upon each unique location.

There are plenty of Northeast states besides NY that were hit hard from a spread and death standpoint - much harder than Florida and some even harder than SD - even though they locked down early and heavily and are still restricted to this very day.

[eagle2]

Vermont's death rate is 309 per million. Florida is more than four times higher. MS and AZ are more than seven times higher.

[rickdugan]

Vermont's death rate is 309 per million. Florida is more than four times higher. MS and AZ are more than seven times higher.

Hmm...I wonder what else could be different about Vermont? Let me think...

Could it be that Vermont isn't exactly a winter tourism destination (except a few hardy skiers), doesn't have an international airport or even a densely populated city to speak of?

Like I said Eagle, a myriad of variables. There is a reason that COVID prevalence was consistently higher in major urban areas with big airports, public transportation, etc., than it was in lightly populated counties in virtually every state it landed in.

[eagle2]

like Mississippi?

[rickdugan]

like Mississippi?

I'm not going to do all your groundwork for you. Just because you can't think of the differences doesn't mean that they don't exist, just that you can't seem to think of them. Your VT comparison is broken for all the reasons discussed - myriad of variables.

But here are a few hints...Google: Jackson MS metro population and public transportation; Biloxi MS area casino tourism, winter tourism Mississippi, MS airport traffic (low vs. big states like, but high compared to VT). Then after you've done all of that, think about all the differences between the scenes in VT vs. MS in January - March of 2020.

Then if you're feeling really motivated, compare your results to where the cases were most prevalent in MS. By then it should be no surprise, but confirmation is never a bad thing.

[eagle2]

It's a waste of time having a discussion with you. You're always going to deny facts you don't like, and you're too stubborn to ever admit your wrong.

[rickdugan]

Eagle, I can't help it if you are incapable of processing data outside of a headline number and only have the capacity to consider one variable in a given situation. Your thesis that lockdown timing and duration were the number one determinants of COVID deaths simply broke down when it was stress tested using additional data. I understand how unsatisfying that is for you, but I can't help that.

But given your inability to process more than one variable and that the lockdown timing one did not hold up on its own, let me give you a more meaningful variable to consider. The number one single determinant of COVID spread in any particular state was urban population density. Not "state" population density, but rather how many of those people are concentrated in urban metro areas.

The data is overwhelming. In every single state with a true urban metro area, COVID prevalence was far more pronounced in the counties in which those urban metro areas reside. Every...single...state.

Vermont fared so well compared to almost every other state because it does not have a true urban area to speak of. Conversely South Dakota fared so poorly because 25% of the state's entire population is concentrated in the Sioux Falls metro area, which was where the overwhelming majority of COVID cases came from in SD.

I'm sorry if this doesn't fit your headline narrative, but the data is what it is.

[eagle2]

It's a waste of time having a discussion with you. You're always going to deny facts you don't like, and you're too stubborn to ever admit your wrong.

I just wanted to add that Hawaii gets far more tourists than Mississippi, over 10 million in 2019, and yet Hawaii has the lowest death rate from covid-19 of any state. Also, Honolulu's population is more than twice as high as Jackson MS. Hawaii, Washington, and Vermont all had lockdowns and took strong measures to prevent the spread of covid-19, and all three states had much lower death rates than the states that let the individuals decide what precautions they would or wouldn't take to avoid catching the virus. So far Hawaii has had only 427 deaths from covid, with a population of over 1.4 million.

[rickdugan]

Eagle, I took the liberty of posting a map link so that you might consider what other unique variable Hawaii has that other U.S. states do not. Take your time with it. It's an interactive map, so you can pan back as much as you want and see all that water surrounding it.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Ha...4d-155.5827818

[Eric Stoner]

Eagle, why don't you tell us why New York had the highest number of total Covid deaths ( despite Cuomo cooking the books ) than any other state ? With one of the strictest Lockdown regimes of any state ? Why is New Jersey now in first place ? Admittedly, Caliphonia did rather well compared to the aforementioned. They passed N.Y. with a higher total death toll BUT , (since I don't want you to injure yourself in hurrying to respond) that is with almost three times the population. Florida did even better. N.J. has a death rate of 248 per 100,000 ; N.Y. is 230 per 100,000 and Caliphonia is much lower at 113. Florida's latest Covid death total is 30,432. It's population is larger than New York's so at most its death rate per 100,000 people can't be more than 150 per 100,000 approx. ( BTW - I searched for Florida's Covid death rate per 100,000 and couldn't find current numbers. Does anybody have them ? ) Those Florida numbers are without the draconian shutdowns of N.Y. , N.J. and Caliphonia . Florida has plenty of major urban areas. The whole East Coast from Key Biscayne up to Melbourne ; Jacksonville and then Orlando and the Gulf Coast from Tampa down to Naples. Then there are smaller ones like Daytona Beach, Panama City , Pensacola and Tallahassee. Yet people are NOT dropping like flies.

Hawaii has not seen much tourism in the past year. They got a LOT of tourists from China and Japan. Not so much in the past year.
Vermont does not anyplace remotely resembling a city . Burlington ? Rutland ? Montpelier ? Puleeze !
Mississippi gets a LOT of tourists. They have gambling and The Gulf Shore.

[Eric Stoner]

Eagle, I took the liberty of posting a map link so that you might consider what other unique variable Hawaii has that other U.S. states do not. Take your time with it. It's an interactive map, so you can pan back as much as you want and see all that water surrounding it.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Ha...4d-155.5827818

Rick, there is no need to get down to his level and respond to his patronizing with some of your own. Just keep throwing facts at him. Yeah , O.K. Hawaii's geographical uniqueness ( of all 50 states ) is a "fact".

[StellaRose]

Either the Rick and Eric accounts is ran by the same individual to prop himself up...or the two are soulmates and it would be a good idea for them to meet up at a hotel room to relieve each other of frustration cause evil liberals are destroying the economy. The writing style is so uncanny. :o

[Eric Stoner]

Either the Rick and Eric accounts is ran by the same individual to prop himself up...or the two are soulmates and it would be a good idea for them to meet up at a hotel room to relieve each other of frustration cause evil liberals are destroying the economy. The writing style is so uncanny. :o

If you think Rick and I were separated at birth, then you know something we don't. All I can say is : Great minds think alike.

[eagle2]

Eagle, why don't you tell us why New York had the highest number of total Covid deaths ( despite Cuomo cooking the books ) than any other state ? With one of the strictest Lockdown regimes of any state ? Why is New Jersey now in first place ? Admittedly, Caliphonia did rather well compared to the aforementioned. They passed N.Y. with a higher total death toll BUT , (since I don't want you to injure yourself in hurrying to respond) that is with almost three times the population. Florida did even better. N.J. has a death rate of 248 per 100,000 ; N.Y. is 230 per 100,000 and Caliphonia is much lower at 113. Florida's latest Covid death total is 30,432. It's population is larger than New York's so at most its death rate per 100,000 people can't be more than 150 per 100,000 approx. ( BTW - I searched for Florida's Covid death rate per 100,000 and couldn't find current numbers. Does anybody have them ? ) Those Florida numbers are without the draconian shutdowns of N.Y. , N.J. and Caliphonia . Florida has plenty of major urban areas. The whole East Coast from Key Biscayne up to Melbourne ; Jacksonville and then Orlando and the Gulf Coast from Tampa down to Naples. Then there are smaller ones like Daytona Beach, Panama City , Pensacola and Tallahassee. Yet people are NOT dropping like flies.

Hawaii has not seen much tourism in the past year. They got a LOT of tourists from China and Japan. Not so much in the past year.
Vermont does not anyplace remotely resembling a city . Burlington ? Rutland ? Montpelier ? Puleeze !
Mississippi gets a LOT of tourists. They have gambling and The Gulf Shore.

I've told you again and again and again, NY and NJ waited too long to shut down, which is why their death rate is so high. At one point, NY had 800 people dying every day. Washington didn't, and Washington's death rate is less than one half of Florida's. Norway and Finland shutdown, Sweden didn't. Sweden's death rate is ten times as high as Norway's and Finland's. Scientists and doctors overwhelmingly agree shut downs and mask mandates works when they're actually followed and enforced. If people don't follow them, then they accomplish very little. The evidence overwhelmingly supports this. The United States has the 7th highest death rate in the world of countries with a population > 100,000. Our death rate is three times as high as Canada's. It's obvious to everyone that letting each individual decide what the appropriate measures he or she should take, rather than mandates does not work.

[eagle2]

Rick, there is no need to get down to his level and respond to his patronizing with some of your own. Just keep throwing facts at him. Yeah , O.K. Hawaii's geographical uniqueness ( of all 50 states ) is a "fact".

Rick gave tourism and airport traffic as two of the reasons why Mississippi has such a high death rate. Mississippi has just as much control over who flies into their state and how their hotels operate as Hawaii does, and Hawaii normally gets far more tourists than Mississippi. Mississippi could have required everyone who flies into their state to quarantine, and placed restrictions on how their hotels operated. Mississippi chose to do nothing and has had one of the highest death rates in the country. I think I even remember their governor prohibited local governments to place any restrictions on businesses. Hawaii restricted who could fly into their state and required everyone who did, to quarantine. If Hawaii chose to do nothing, and allow anyone to travel there with no restrictions or quarantine, I doubt their results would have been much different than Mississippi's.

As I said before, we are guests in this forum, and many people here are tired of the constant arguing over this topic, so this is going to be my last post on the matter.

[Eric Stoner]

I've told you again and again and again, NY and NJ waited too long to shut down, which is why their death rate is so high. At one point, NY had 800 people dying every day. Washington didn't, and Washington's death rate is less than one half of Florida's. Norway and Finland shutdown, Sweden didn't. Sweden's death rate is ten times as high as Norway's and Finland's. Scientists and doctors overwhelmingly agree shut downs and mask mandates works when they're actually followed and enforced. If people don't follow them, then they accomplish very little. The evidence overwhelmingly supports this. The United States has the 7th highest death rate in the world of countries with a population > 100,000. Our death rate is three times as high as Canada's. It's obvious to everyone that letting each individual decide what the appropriate measures he or she should take, rather than mandates does not work.

You always do this. I ask you about NOW and you want to talk about LAST YEAR ! If you bother looking at the CURRENT statistics all the Covid metrics are going DOWN : Infection rate ; hospitalization rate ; death rate. Vaccinations are up. In fact some scientists say that with vaccinations and built up immunity in those who WERE infected , we could achieve herd immunity by early April. Except for Fauci and the Teacher's unions of course. Both of whom seem to want this pandemic to continue for as long as possible.

[arielbriel]

To get back to the original thread topic, Penthouse NYC is donezo from all accounts that I have heard.

[Eric Stoner]

Oh Boy. That is not good. While not exactly my cup of tea ( it could be boring and was always a bit pretentious ) Penthouse was the pick if a bad lot of N.Y. clubs. I am sorry to hear it. I had a few pleasant evenings there.

[rickdugan]

I've told you again and again and again, NY and NJ waited too long to shut down, which is why their death rate is so high. At one point, NY had 800 people dying every day. Washington didn't, and Washington's death rate is less than one half of Florida's. Norway and Finland shutdown, Sweden didn't. Sweden's death rate is ten times as high as Norway's and Finland's. Scientists and doctors overwhelmingly agree shut downs and mask mandates works when they're actually followed and enforced. If people don't follow them, then they accomplish very little. The evidence overwhelmingly supports this. The United States has the 7th highest death rate in the world of countries with a population > 100,000. Our death rate is three times as high as Canada's. It's obvious to everyone that letting each individual decide what the appropriate measures he or she should take, rather than mandates does not work.

Of course we had a higher prevalence rate than many other countries, though don't kid yourself into believing that places like China, Russia and several other totalitarian regimes are reporting clean numbers. We are one of the top international travel destinations in the world and the most heavily traveled by people from the virus' source country. It was here far earlier than anyone realized.

Sweden's death rate was still much lower than several European countries that did employ heavy lockdowns. And haven't we already discussed the other variables differentiating a state like Washington and Florida? If you are going to keep throwing state to state comparisons against the wall to see what sticks, you should address the other variables first.

Now could we would have had less COVID deaths if we locked down both earlier and stayed locked down to this very day? Sure, but at what cost? How many more lives would we have lost to drug overdoses, suicides and other untreated medical conditions? How desperate would our low income population become if they were unable to work for even longer? How far behind would 74 million school children become if they could not go to school, especially the portion from low income families? The cost in other lives lost and generational human misery that we have already extracted even from briefer and more targeted lockdowns is astronomical and will reverberate for many years to come.

In a free and open society like ours, it is supposed to be a tough decision to lock down. Remember what happened in the beginning of February when the federal government did something as simple as cut off flights from China? New York City officials accused the administration of encouraging xenophobia and actually urged people to pack into Chinatown for Chinese New Year, lmao.

[arielbriel]

I'm pretty sure Hustler is done, too.

[sugartaste]

Hi-formerly “perfectly healthy” person who almost died from Covid last year: I needed oxygen and Remdesivor before I was able to recover enough to even leave the hospital. 8 months later and I STILL suffer from a myriad of post-Covid symptoms that I STILL am not healthy enough to work.

People like me exist, in fact there are hundred of thousands of us-and we aren’t going to let the deniers forget it. So save your faux outrage for a board that allows for “alternative facts”, and leave the people like me who have lost their entire quality of life, alone.

PS I don’t know if Eric and Rick are the same person, but Eric is a real person. I “met” him once at a PP. Rick is from NYC (or so he used to claim), so frankly he’s delusional if he keeps on believing FLORIDA did a better job with the pandemic. Then again, that’s what happens when you’ve paid for so many escort sessions, you start to believe “the girls” actually want to be “friends” with you off the clock (a big part of Eric’s MO, as well, just ask any former Gogorama dancer lmao).

Peace.