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Thread: Adult Industry=Relying on Others

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    Default Adult Industry=Relying on Others

    I have an interesting observation about being in this business that I need to get off of my chest. I have been a dancer, cammer, model for over a decade. I provide a service for money.

    Why is it that men/people who do not agree with what you do, or want you to "get out" of the business take on the mind set that all adult industry workers "rely on men for money" or that men are "taking care of us"?

    We provide a service that is vital to society and provides repressed men an outlet to explore their fantasies in exchange for money. In other industries where people are independent contractors/self employed, workers are not told they are "relying on others for money" or that their clients are "taking care of them" think hair stylists, uber drivers, etc.

    I have encountered a lot of people lately who want me to change, stating that I should not rely on others for money. I have also encountered a lot of people who insist that I must get another job with benefits, 401k, etc. for my future. To be honest, I could cam into retirement. I can get my own healthcare, IRA, etc.

    Even our "white knight" customers do this. They want us to get out of the business, but they do not offer any kind of support (not just money) while we do so. We all have those customers who want us to leave the business for them, but they never offer any help along.

    Me thinks this is coming from their own selfish/skewed mind set. Some people have issues with me being in the industry simply because they cannot cope with the fact that I entertain men for money. Others have accused me of gold digging and hustling them in my personal life, and the list goes on. People do view us a certain way, but I am honest because if people cannot accept me I do not want them to be a part of my life.

    So, if I get a normal job in which I will make even less money, are these people going to be there to bail me out when I can't support myself? I'm afraid not. Are they going to truly be there for me in the process? Nope. All they offer are their opinions of us and I do not value opinions from those who have not walked this path. People who haven't have no business telling us how to live our lives.

    In my own opinion, I feel they do this because they cannot accept me as is, it has nothing to do with them wanting what is best for me or my future. I am sure some of these people really do want what is best for me, but I made the choice to enter this industry for a reason. I work really hard and at the end of the day own a licensed business, pay taxes and have learned many valuable skills in business that will only help me in the future. I have always wanted to start my own non-adult business in the long run and camming/entertainment gave me the know how to one day accomplish this goal. Getting a "normal job" is not the only way out in other words. With all of my knowledge though, I do believe that I am not reaching my full potential. However, I do not look at this business as something that I must be in a hurry to "get out of" to have a semblance of a successful future. I think this "I must get out" mind set can be very self destructive as it makes you feel ashamed and that you are less-than because you are in a business that people do not agree with.

    I also think that deep down, those who force this "you must get out and get a normal job" mind set on you are just envious that we have so much freedom and make a decent income without being a slave to the man. They also do not realize what a struggle it really is to walk this path, a majority of us alone with odds against us and those closest to us against us.

    It is my bad also, for being so open about what I do for a living. I have never been the type to hide what I do, but for my own good I must start doing it so people no longer force their own one sided views on me about what I do for a living.

    I am sure a lot of you ladies can relate. End rant.
    Last edited by cyberstripper; 09-11-2018 at 12:54 AM.
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    Default Re: Adult Industry=Relying on Others

    Also those damn doctors, who rely on patients for money.
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    Default Re: Adult Industry=Relying on Others

    Why care at all what other people think
    Now he said it a third time, and Ona drew a deep breath;

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    Default Re: Adult Industry=Relying on Others

    I hate lying, but I don’t tell anyone anymore in order to maintain my mental health. I think you’d have to have a support group to be open because all the hate and abuse can be too much. I mean most lgbt people stay in their communities for that reason.

    Lynn2009- because if you are out about dancing or sex work you will be discriminated.
    against, even worse because it gives some people “permission” to abuse and bully us.

    For the life of me I don’t understand why social norms are so important. I suspect because there are social consequences like being made fun of or misunderstood.
    Last edited by Ifyouseekamy; 09-05-2018 at 09:23 PM.

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    Default Re: Adult Industry=Relying on Others

    Lynn I really do not give a fuck what others think, if I did, I would not be "out of the closet" about what I do...I am just sharing a fascinating observation about people who do not agree with sex work or the decision to be in the business and knew a few could relate lol.
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    Default Re: Adult Industry=Relying on Others

    Quote Originally Posted by Ifyouseekamy View Post
    I hate lying, but I don’t tell anyone anymore in order to maintain mental health, you’d have to have a support group to be open. I mean most lgbt people stay in their communities for that reason.

    Lynn2009- because if you are out about dancing or sex work you will be discriminated.
    against, even worse because it gives some people “permission” to abuse and bully us.

    For the life of me I don’t understand why social norms are so important. I suspect because there are social consequences like being made fun of or misunderstood.
    This is why I love SW, it is my support group. I am thinking of starting one locally for all adult industry workers, like a meet up group that is not heavily reliant on religion. I cherish all of you ladies, even if we do not always agree with each other. We are all cut from the same cloth here and even though I have never met any of you, I have formed very close bonds with like minded women thru the years on this site. I am so grateful for that!
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    Default Re: Adult Industry=Relying on Others

    Quote Originally Posted by cyberstripper View Post
    This is why I love SW, it is my support group. I am thinking of starting one locally for all adult industry workers, like a meet up group that is not heavily reliant on religion. I cherish all of you ladies, even if we do not always agree with each other. We are all cut from the same cloth here and even though I have never met any of you, I have formed very close bonds with like minded women thru the years on this site. I am so grateful for that!
    They had a birds and the bees meet up that was about being sex positive. I think something like that would be better than focusing on sex work or pole dancing.
    Last edited by Ifyouseekamy; 09-05-2018 at 09:49 PM.

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    Default Re: Adult Industry=Relying on Others

    I struggle with the stigma from other people too. Its always the crappy customers who insult your job. I've met my share of ppl who abused their power to make me feel small about my job, just bc they knew they'd get away with it. As far as friends/ppl you're trying to cultivate relationships with, its hurtful when they invalidate and insult what you do. I'm actually struggling with how to handle "friends" who do this. I've had friends encourage me about getting a "real job," trying to fluff up my self-esteem by telling me how much better I am than this job. I've unfriended and blocked one loser, thinking of just cutting off contact with anyone and everyone who hurts me by being a bigot. In some ways, this job comes with similar stigma of being independently wealthy. You learn who your real friends are, and as it turns out, there are very few. I don't agree with a lot of aspects of the adult industry, and think it can be very shallow and narcissistic but that does not absolve ppl of responsibility of abusing and sigmatizing us. I hope that someday soon, it becomes unacceptable to abuse or discrimate against ppl in stripping or related industries, kind of like ppl of different secual and gender orientation now have rights.

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    Default Re: Adult Industry=Relying on Others

    of course we rely upon others for our income... we're *working*... that's like accusing auto mechanics of loving when people crash their cars.

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    Default Re: Adult Industry=Relying on Others

    Quote Originally Posted by ZeroSugarMonster View Post
    In some ways, this job comes with similar stigma of being independently wealthy. You learn who your real friends are, and as it turns out, there are very few. I don't agree with a lot o.
    I never thought about it that way.


    The bottom line is anyone who says they won’t do whatever they have to do to survive is a liar.

    For women it’s no win game. The only way to win is to live life on your own terms tell everyone to fuck off!

    Thanks for letting me vent I’ve been really depressed lately and it has a lot to do with this shamed and blame form this job. Even if I quit, I wouldn’t be any happier making minimum wage and I’d still be depressed.
    Last edited by Ifyouseekamy; 09-06-2018 at 12:24 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hoosiers View Post
    of course we rely upon others for our income... we're *working*... that's like accusing auto mechanics of loving when people crash their cars.
    I love this because I can really draw the parallels (boyfriend's job has a lot to do with autos/fixing machines.)

    Mechanics and bodymen don't love it when people crash cars but they exist to help people have reliable transportation (& this is also why insurance is required on expensive cars.)


    Plumbers don't want your basement to flood but when that happens, they are on the mess.


    I'll revisit this discussion later.
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    Default Re: Adult Industry=Relying on Others

    Lots of people are programmed to believe that life should be lived by a single playbook. To them, anyone who lives outside of those guidelines is being irresponsible or bad. When I left a high paying job to start my own business, I got plenty of grief from family and friends and I'm not even in a business that is controversial. I can only imagine how much worse it is for people who leave or avoid clock punching jobs to do adult work.

    Fuck 'em, every last one of them. I was miserable in the life I had before this and now I'm free, as are you. Don't let anyone tell you that you have to willingly shackle yourself to something that you know will make your life feel like endless drudgery.

    As far as customers go, those who give you grief for your work are the ultimate hypocrites. After all, they benefit from what you do. If they believe that it is so bad, then if they had any conscience at all they would feel ashamed for "taking advantage" of you, lol. IMHO you should feel free to call them out on it.

    Good luck.

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    Default Re: Adult Industry=Relying on Others

    Quote Originally Posted by rickdugan View Post
    I can only imagine how much worse it is for people who leave or avoid clock punching jobs to do adult work.
    Don't worry, it's fucking awful lmao. I apparently have no self-respect, self-worth, self-esteem, I'm not interested in having a respectable career, I'm lazy, I don't deserve custody of my daughter... need I go on?

    Here's two things I've come to learn about Americans:
    1. Most people are terrified of sex.
    2. Most people hate the fuck out of their conventional lives.

    Both for good reason. We're not educated on sexual matters in this country and, honestly, conventional American life is horrible. It's all about performing menial tasks to prove you deserve to be able to pay for expensive healthcare & education, and to pay taxes that get used to bomb foreign countries for no reason. Never seeing your kids in order to prove you love them etc.

    So anyone who tries to eschew that whole mess and avoid living that way is a threat because it makes people question why they're putting themselves through the pain of conventionality. And if she's a woman, and a sex worker? Fuck her til next Friday.

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    Default Re: Adult Industry=Relying on Others

    Quote Originally Posted by cyberstripper View Post
    I have an interesting observation about being in this business that I need to get off of my chest. I have been a dancer, cammer, model for over a decade. I provide a service for money.

    Why is it that men/people who do not agree with what you do, or want you to "get out" of the business take on the mind set that all adult industry workers "rely on men for money" or that men are "taking care of us"?

    We provide a service that is vital to society and provides repressed men an outlet to explore their fantasies in exchange for money. In other industries where people are independent contractors/self employed, workers are not told they are "relying on others for money" or that their clients are "taking care of them" think hair stylists, uber drivers, etc.

    I have encountered a lot of people lately who want me to change, stating that I should not rely on others for money. I have also encountered a lot of people who insist that I must get another job with benefits, 401k, etc. for my future. To be honest, I could cam into retirement. I can get my own healthcare, IRA, etc.

    Even our "white knight" customers do this. They want us to get out of the business, but they do not offer to help us out financially while we do so. We all have those customers who want us to leave the business for them, but they never offer any help along.

    Me thinks this is coming from their own selfish/skewed mind set. Some people have issues with me being in the industry simply because they cannot cope with the fact that I entertain men for money. Others have accused me of gold digging and hustling them in my personal life for money when they made the choice to "spoil me" If I do ask for help, which is a huge blow to my ego if I have had a bad month, this has become peoples go-to. I must work a job that will only pay me less money, or I am hustling them. It is ridiculous.

    So, if I get a normal job in which I will make even less money, are these people going to be there to bail me out when I can't support myself? I'm afraid not. Camming does have its up's and down's and I have been struggling lately, so when I open up to people about this, and ask for help....only to hear that they think I am hustling them and need to get out of this business, I don't believe that is a valid solution to my problems. Being accused of these things doesn't help either. I feel if they really wanted what is best for me and are truly concerned, they would offer to help me out with rent/bills until I can find a normal job. Ofc they offer their opinions of you and your work, but never really offer to help out.

    In my own opinion, I feel they do this because they cannot accept me as is, it has nothing to do with them wanting what is best for me or my future. I am sure some of these people really do want what is best for me, but I made the choice to enter this industry for a reason. I work really hard and at the end of the day own a licensed business, pay taxes and have learned many valuable skills in business that will only help me in the future. I have always wanted to start my own non-adult business in the long run and camming/entertainment gave me the know how to one day accomplish this goal. Getting a "normal job" is not the only way out in other words. With all of my knowledge though, I do believe that I am not reaching my full potential. However, I do not look at this business as something that I must be in a hurry to "get out of" to have a semblance of a successful future. I think this "I must get out" mind set can be very self destructive as it makes you feel ashamed and that you are less-than because you are in a business that people do not agree with.

    I also think that deep down, those who force this "you must get out and get a normal job" mind set on you are just envious that we have so much freedom and make a decent income without being a slave to the man. They also do not realize what a struggle it really is to walk this path, a majority of us alone with odds against us and those closest to us against us.

    It is my bad also, for being so open about what I do for a living. I have never been the type to hide what I do, but for my own good I must start doing it so people no longer force their own one sided views on me about what I do for a living.

    I am sure a lot of you ladies can relate. End rant.
    A lot of people are still living in the dark ages when it comes to anything pertaining to sex.

    If you should get out of the adult entertainment business because you're relying on men for money, then Lady Gaga and Beyonce should stop singing, since they're relying on other people for money, and Serena Williams should stop playing tennis, since she's relying on other people for money.

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    Default Re: Adult Industry=Relying on Others

    I’m not an expert in sociology, but I remember my professor talking about emotional (women’s) labor has typically been exploited and/or undervalued.

    All human beings are interdependent- that’s the dumbest claim against adult work. There’s lots of negativity aspects that have some validity, but “because you rely on others”

    I don’t know what I do without my Starbucks barista.
    Last edited by Ifyouseekamy; 09-09-2018 at 07:37 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hoosiers View Post
    Don't worry, it's fucking awful lmao. I apparently have no self-respect, self-worth, self-esteem, I'm not interested in having a respectable career, I'm lazy, I don't deserve custody of my daughter... need I go on?

    Here's two things I've come to learn about Americans:
    1. Most people are terrified of sex.
    2. Most people hate the fuck out of their conventional lives.

    Both for good reason. We're not educated on sexual matters in this country and, honestly, conventional American life is horrible. It's all about performing menial tasks to prove you deserve to be able to pay for expensive healthcare & education, and to pay taxes that get used to bomb foreign countries for no reason. Never seeing your kids in order to prove you love them etc.

    So anyone who tries to eschew that whole mess and avoid living that way is a threat because it makes people question why they're putting themselves through the pain of conventionality. And if she's a woman, and a sex worker? Fuck her til next Friday.
    I’m sorry your being scapegoated by society and it’s effecting your kids- that’s horrible. T I really appreciated your post. Thanks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ifyouseekamy View Post
    I never thought about it that way.


    The bottom line is anyone who says they won’t do whatever they have to do to survive is a liar.

    For women it’s no win game. The only way to win is to live life on your own terms tell everyone to fuck off!

    Thanks for letting me vent I’ve been really depressed lately and it has a lot to do with this shamed and blame form this job. Even if I quit, I wouldn’t be any happier making minimum wage and I’d still be depressed.
    THIS..is exactly why I made this post and I feel you 100%. This post stemmed from me also meeting a guy who of course passed judgement and told me I need to get serious about my future. It is making me extremely uncomfortable and I am going to have to have a talk with him, about whether he accepts me or not. The answer is already obvious. I have not been single for a very long time and my ex fully accepted me and did not attempt to change me. I am seeing this guy so casually, this is coming out of left field and I wonder what his true intentions are. I can only assume the worst and I do not like people trying to control me and force their opinions on me. It is going to lead to a lot of conflict so I have to stand up for myself, I feel disrespected. He told me if I tell people so readily they will have a certain opinion of me, that is what he thinks then too. I do not know him well enough for him to really know the real me, and that is my mistake. I open up about certain things and not others. I am honest and lay my cards on the table to avoid conflict and avoid hurting people in the long run. I made a conscious decision to enter this business to build a better life for myself and I have. People have no idea how much strength it takes to enter and stay in this business, a business that a majority of society looks down upon. My dream of remaining a self employed webcam model and starting another non adult business when I am ready is a damn good dream and goal. We are damned if we do, damned if we don't. Tonight, I have made the decision to keep what I do under wraps until people get to know me for me, not allow my job to define me as a person which it doesn't. I hate having to do this...I never really have. I have always taken on the mind set that if I hide what I do it equals shame and people will not respect you. If I am out and proud, I am not ashamed and this earns peoples respect. Not the case. So, now I make the decision to keep my mouth shut and those who cannot accept me do not deserve to be a part of my life. That's that. I get very lonely though and I know a ton of you can relate to that as well. So, I am lonely as-is being out and proud. I will only face more lonliness and feel even more isolated this way but alas. I am all about me myself and I and I do not live my life for anyone but me.
    Last edited by cyberstripper; 09-11-2018 at 12:48 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ifyouseekamy View Post
    I’m sorry your being scapegoated by society and it’s effecting your kids- that’s horrible. T I really appreciated your post. Thanks.
    'preciate it. It's not really affecting my daughter tbh. I think it was affecting her more when I was so burnt out hating my conventional life that I began to resent everyone in it for forcing me into mediocrity.

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    Quote Originally Posted by eagle2 View Post
    a lot of people are still living in the dark ages when it comes to anything pertaining to sex.

    If you should get out of the adult entertainment business because you're relying on men for money, then lady gaga and beyonce should stop singing, since they're relying on other people for money, and serena williams should stop playing tennis, since she's relying on other people for money.
    ^^^^^ this
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ifyouseekamy View Post
    I’m not an expert in sociology, but I remember my professor talking about emotional (women’s) labor has typically been exploited and/or undervalued.

    All human beings are interdependent- that’s the dumbest claim against adult work. There’s lots of negativity aspects that have some validity, but “because you rely on others”

    I don’t know what I do without my Starbucks barista.
    When I was traveling for work I realized I would starve to death if not for the tender mercies of waitresses and short order cooks. It definitely taught me not to have a shit attitude about other people's labor.
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    Quote Originally Posted by hoosiers View Post
    of course we rely upon others for our income... we're *working*... that's like accusing auto mechanics of loving when people crash their cars.
    EXACTLY! What these guys are doing is PimpTalk. No one asked them their opinion. They "offer" their deflating, demeaning opinion to break your spirit and push their agenda of making you dependent on their validation. Mentally abusive men LOVE targeting women in service jobs of all kinds.

    If you were a housekeeper, they'd demean and target you. If you were a nurse, they'd demean and target you. Any profession where you must be caring or at least pleasant so you are shackled from cursing them out or knocking them the fuck out, they target.

    If you talk to some prostitutes, they hit you with the hopeless Pimp Talk. Manipulative, narrow presentations of what we do. Then they finish with worst scenario fantasies and 'the only way' is their way. So first they describe the job in a super narrow way -- being dependent on customers, taking advantage of customers. Then paint a bleak future, men will stop rescuing you, men will get sick of you hustling them. Then they hit you with their real agenda. A Pimp would say you need a "Manager" or protection to manage your money. A jealous customer would say you need to change jobs. And cut throat prostitutes would say 'we're all the same, rejecting me in your club is futile'. Problem solved! For them.
    Rich men only worry about money in their business ventures.
    Broke men worry about money in their relationships with women.


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  39. #22
    Senior Member hoosiers's Avatar
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    Default Re: Adult Industry=Relying on Others

    Quote Originally Posted by Ifyouseekamy View Post
    I’m not an expert in sociology, but I remember my professor talking about emotional (women’s) labor has typically been exploited and/or undervalued.

    All human beings are interdependent- that’s the dumbest claim against adult work. There’s lots of negativity aspects that have some validity, but “because you rely on others”

    I don’t know what I do without my Starbucks barista.
    I'm a sociology student. Women's labor has ALWAYS been economically undervalued, PERIOD, and often denigrated socially. There are countless examples of this.

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  41. #23
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    Default Re: Adult Industry=Relying on Others

    Quote Originally Posted by Ifyouseekamy View Post
    I never thought about it that way.


    The bottom line is anyone who says they won’t do whatever they have to do to survive is a liar.

    For women it’s no win game. The only way to win is to live life on your own terms tell everyone to fuck off!

    Thanks for letting me vent I’ve been really depressed lately and it has a lot to do with this shamed and blame form this job. Even if I quit, I wouldn’t be any happier making minimum wage and I’d still be depressed.
    AND they'd still beat the club getting THEIR needs met!
    Rich men only worry about money in their business ventures.
    Broke men worry about money in their relationships with women.


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