Results 1 to 13 of 13

Thread: Stage Fees

  1. #1
    Veteran Member
    Joined
    Dec 2014
    Posts
    591
    Thanks
    12
    Thanked 778 Times in 345 Posts

    Default Stage Fees

    Completely stupid question and don't know if it even belongs in this section but here goes.

    Are stage fees legal? If clubs are taking as much as 70% or even 90% of private room money, shouldn't that be enough? I'd predume that in actual legit independent contract jobs, these cuts would be highly suspect as is but then there are stage fees to boot. If I understand correctly, most independent contract in mainstream fields forfeit no more than 10 to 20 percent of moneys earned to third party securing them the clientele. Or at least that is what I'm finding....

    I realize most clubs say that our alternative is to be classified as a minimum wage employee. No, that's not true. I feel that we would fall under tipped employee category, such as bartenders. The fact that we're told our only other option is minimum wage further reinforces the stigma, that is partly rooted in the bias that we are not worth more than minimum wage and that's what we would be doing if it werent for stripping.

    Thoughts?
    Last edited by ZeroSugarMonster; 09-08-2018 at 04:51 AM.

  2. #2
    God/dess Selina M's Avatar
    Joined
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Omicron Persei 8
    Posts
    4,508
    Thanks
    12,529
    Thanked 13,934 Times in 3,720 Posts

    Default Re: Stage Fees

    Tis not legal, no, but your only option is to sue. I agree we should be considered tipped employees.


    A lot of girls are ok with status quo because it means we don't have a schedule (in many areas at least). There's also the thought process of "I make $25-$200 an hour, I'm gonna be grateful and not rock the boat over an ethics issue."

    I dont think the min wage bit is some deep meaning, its literally just their attempt to threaten us, and the fact that economics means thats likely what a club would try to pay IF we were mandatory employees due to a labor board decision or something
    "People jack off with the left hand and point with the right."

    "You can check out any time you like, but you can never leave."

  3. The Following User Says Thank You to Selina M For This Useful Post:


  4. #3
    Member overcast's Avatar
    Joined
    Mar 2018
    Location
    lemuria
    Posts
    35
    Thanks
    12
    Thanked 67 Times in 24 Posts

    Default Re: Stage Fees

    Quote Originally Posted by ZeroSugarMonster View Post
    If any of you guys worked as actual legit independent contractors, you'd know that these cuts are highly suspect as is but then there are stage fees to boot.
    Breathtakingly condescending and presumptive.

    Anyways. This conversation happens a lot. It’s probably as old as modern stripclubs, tbh. Also, if your club is taking 70-90% of a VIP fee, that’s ridiculous and I’m sorry that clubs are being run in that way. The majority of clubs in the US don’t take cuts that steep, but there is shadiness everywhere. There have been many dancers who have tried to sue their clubs or unionize or try to change the current system. Part of the difficulty of this is— because we ARE ACTUAL LEGITIMATE INDEPENDENT CONTRACTORS— our decentralization and how different club culture is from one state to another, or even on one side of town vs another. It’s also difficult to standardize wages in an industry when the laws for that industry are largely dependent on state regulations and you know how hard it is to get lawmakers to be willing to back sex workers. Not that you shouldn’t try, if that’s what you believe in. I’m just saying that there are many, many, many different things to take into consideration.

    The hard truth of it is strippers are the club’s best customers. They know they can always rely on their roster of dancers to pay their house fees every shift, plus any additional fees they can dream up. They will fight to keep that going, and disrupting that could really shake the industry. Again, not necessarily a bad thing, but this would have pretty serious consequences, good and bad.

    It’s possible that things will move in that direction eventually, and I’d be interested to see, but I’m personally at peace with how the system currently runs. I have a flexible schedule, a job that lets me travel when and where I want, I get paid in cash, and dealing with management is a whole different game as a independent contracter vs wages employee.
    Work spares us from three evils: boredom, vice, and need. - Voltaire

  5. #4
    God/dess Selina M's Avatar
    Joined
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Omicron Persei 8
    Posts
    4,508
    Thanks
    12,529
    Thanked 13,934 Times in 3,720 Posts

    Default Re: Stage Fees

    ^ We COULD be "actual" ICs, if some restrictions the clubs place on us were tweaked. If you refer to what the IRS uses to classify employees vs. contractors (a 20-point test), we fail most of it as contractors.

    Question 1: "Must the individual take instructions from your management staff regarding when, where, and how work is to be done?" Yes.
    Question 3: "Is the success of your business dependent on the type of service provided by the individual?" Yes.
    Question 6: "Is there a continuing relationship between the individual and the company?" Yes
    Question 7: "Must the individual work set hours?" Yes (most clubs have at least a minimum shift, if not a minimum # of days or a schedule).

    Etc, etc. for another 13 questions. All of the above need to be answered as "No" to be an IC.

    I've yet to see a lawsuit where the girls didn't win in the end. My club was sued & lost about 10 years ago - the girl made off with mad cash, the club has continued to charge house fees & VIP cuts... They do, however, realize their hands are tied in regards to forcing us to tip out DJs/bouncers... they 'heartily encourage' 10% but if you refuse, they won't fire you - I suspect that was what pissed the girl off enough to sue them.

    The problem is, do you want to lose your ability to earn $500/night to fight this battle? Probably not.

    If you wanted to recover money from the club later & 'make a point', you could do this via the IRS (if you filed taxes). There's a short form you fill out. If they rule you were misclassified, the club will owe you minimum wage backpay + 15% of your income (the half of tax that an employer was supposed to pay). I'm not sure about a refund of house fees or anything, but that's still a tidy sum.
    "People jack off with the left hand and point with the right."

    "You can check out any time you like, but you can never leave."

  6. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Selina M For This Useful Post:


  7. #5
    Featured Member
    Joined
    May 2014
    Posts
    896
    Thanks
    88
    Thanked 2,152 Times in 643 Posts

    Default Re: Stage Fees

    ^^ This is why dancer lawsuits are usually started by fired or retired dancers. Nobody making a living off of a club is going to bite the hand that feeds them.

  8. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to kirakonstantin For This Useful Post:


  9. #6
    God/dess Selina M's Avatar
    Joined
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Omicron Persei 8
    Posts
    4,508
    Thanks
    12,529
    Thanked 13,934 Times in 3,720 Posts

    Default Re: Stage Fees

    Quote Originally Posted by kirakonstantin View Post
    ^^ This is why dancer lawsuits are usually started by fired or retired dancers. Nobody making a living off of a club is going to bite the hand that feeds them.
    Yep. The joke is that it's the "stripper retirement fund"
    "People jack off with the left hand and point with the right."

    "You can check out any time you like, but you can never leave."

  10. #7
    Senior Member
    Joined
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    136
    Thanks
    485
    Thanked 271 Times in 98 Posts

    Default Re: Stage Fees

    Personally I think that if a club is forcing me to show up a minimum number of days, making me stay for multiple hours while taking a percentage of my money, forcing me to tip out employees that should just be getting a living wage AND charging an expensive house fee on top of all that fucking bullshit they deserve to be sued. But we’re strippers so no one gives a shit about our labor conditions.

  11. The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to Elizabe For This Useful Post:


  12. #8
    God/dess SnuffleUffleGrass's Avatar
    Joined
    Mar 2009
    Location
    HearstCastle, Rosebud
    Posts
    8,848
    Thanks
    22,676
    Thanked 17,513 Times in 6,696 Posts
    My Mood
    Angelic

    Default Re: Stage Fees

    Quote Originally Posted by Elizabe View Post
    Personally I think that if a club is forcing me to show up a minimum number of days, making me stay for multiple hours while taking a percentage of my money, forcing me to tip out employees that should just be getting a living wage AND charging an expensive house fee on top of all that fucking bullshit they deserve to be sued. But we’re strippers so no one gives a shit about our labor conditions.
    Pretty much

  13. #9
    Senior Member hoosiers's Avatar
    Joined
    Feb 2018
    Location
    Indiana
    Posts
    79
    Thanks
    133
    Thanked 157 Times in 63 Posts
    My Mood
    Innocent

    Default Re: Stage Fees

    I'm pretty sure this technically is legal. I've heard of cab companies (actual cab companies, not just Uber or Lyft), hair salons, tattoo parlors, and other 1099-centric businesses charging their ICs a fee to "rent" the venue or equipment.

    Forcing a tip-out to bar staff, DJs, bouncers, etc.? This, I'm not so sure about, but I've worked at both clubs and restaurants that required this. I think it's a courtesy thing? Not to mention most states are right-to-work states now where people can be fired for anything that isn't considered discrimination.

    Requiring an IC to show up on a prescribed schedule? To my knowledge, this isn't okay. Neither is charging "fines" for things as many clubs do. I've worked as a 1099 computer programmer before; it was made very clear that scheduling was "strongly encouraged" but that due to being 1099 not enforceable.

    I personally believe that the clubs which do the worst job of taking care of the dancers--requiring schedules for nonsense reasons, bouncers overlooking sexual assault, charging nonsense fines--are usually either economically shitty places to work at or there's just straight-up illegal stuff happening. This was my first-ever club. They fined girls for bullshit constantly, kept the floor at 60F in order for the girls' nipples to be perkier, asked the house mom to stop feeding us because we were getting too fat, etc. I was completely unsurprised when it was discovered to be part of a racketeering scheme.

  14. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to hoosiers For This Useful Post:


  15. #10
    Veteran Member
    Joined
    Oct 2017
    Posts
    534
    Thanks
    3,607
    Thanked 933 Times in 366 Posts

    Default Re: Stage Fees

    ^Off topic is this why it's so fucking cold at so many clubs?????

  16. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to random stripper For This Useful Post:


  17. #11
    God/dess Selina M's Avatar
    Joined
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Omicron Persei 8
    Posts
    4,508
    Thanks
    12,529
    Thanked 13,934 Times in 3,720 Posts

    Default Re: Stage Fees

    ^ My club used to keep it ridiculously warm in the DR and with stools instead of chairs so we wouldn't be comfortable (and would hence spend more time on the floor).
    "People jack off with the left hand and point with the right."

    "You can check out any time you like, but you can never leave."

  18. The Following User Says Thank You to Selina M For This Useful Post:


  19. #12
    Veteran Member
    Joined
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    202
    Thanks
    284
    Thanked 257 Times in 101 Posts

    Default Re: Stage Fees

    [QUOTE / Hoosiers: They fined girls for bullshit constantly, kept the floor at 60F in order for the girls' nipples to be perkier, asked the house mom to stop feeding us because we were getting too fat, etc. I was completely unsurprised when it was discovered to be part of a racketeering scheme.[/QUOTE]


    I worked at two of the infamous clubs near/in Seattle that were later shut down for racketeering.

    They also maintained very cold temperatures in the club. Your comment explains why.

    Thanks for that, because even after all these years, I remember the cold and my repetitive requests to the manager to turn up the heat.

    I was adamant that my rent money should cover being at least tolerably warm.

    Another rule they had was that we HAD to take our bottoms off on stage. We didn't have a choice.

    I didn't think that as an independent contractor they could force us, but I went along with the requirement because the money was good.
    Last edited by PinkMinx; 09-29-2018 at 08:27 PM. Reason: Credit Quote

  20. The Following User Says Thank You to PinkMinx For This Useful Post:


  21. #13
    God/dess xxxGothBarbie's Avatar
    Joined
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Bi coastal Gypsy
    Posts
    4,812
    Thanks
    7,738
    Thanked 5,910 Times in 2,491 Posts
    My Mood
    Pensive

    Default Re: Stage Fees

    When I worked at Gold Club in San Jose, years ago before they got shut down, the manager Jenny pulled this type of illegal shit trying to force schedules on us & threaten to fire us if we didn't show up. I called in alot but the only thing i got hit with were her "fees" that seemed to inflate depending on the situation. I'm so glad that place got shut down bc I had read somewhere a while back that that same bitch manager had opened up a regular night club & was fraudulent charging people that got bottle service. Reading the yelp reviews totally made sense to me that she would pull that shit.

    She said were were IC but yet, wouldn't allow us to hang in dressing room, required a schedule every dam week, and verbally abused us at times. Even in the yelp reviews, people had said what a narcissistic bully she was & didn't like her energy. I should've threatened to sue back then before quitting but I didn't *sigh*

    Ladies, PLEASE don't let these clubs bully you into their bullshit racketeering! Stand your ground, know your rights as an IC.
    "Alot of people are afraid to say what they want, that's why they don't get what they want"~ Madonna




    "Respect is a dying art"

    "Philosophy is the talk on a cereal box"


Similar Threads

  1. Do you tell customers about stage fees, etc.?
    By AnnaPDX in forum Stripping (was Stripping General)
    Replies: 17
    Last Post: 03-31-2010, 01:11 PM
  2. Vegas House/Stage Fees
    By Guenevere in forum Club Chat
    Replies: 20
    Last Post: 12-20-2007, 05:49 AM
  3. Re: ? for dancers do you think stage fees are fair
    By Melonie in forum Stripping (was Stripping General)
    Replies: 28
    Last Post: 05-05-2006, 01:35 PM
  4. Replies: 32
    Last Post: 12-23-2005, 09:26 AM
  5. stage fees/rent/etc
    By morgan913 in forum Dollar Den
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 04-26-2003, 01:13 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •