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Thread: Limo crash kills 20 ppl

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    Default Re: Limo crash kills 20 ppl

    This honestly reminded me of the need to address unsafe roads as well as seat belts in limos and buses. I'll come back to this later, but statistically auto accidents are more likely to kill you than a bad batch of club drugs or a lightning strike.
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    Default Re: Limo crash kills 20 ppl


    I actually know exactly where this happened. And I'm sure this is the biggest news there in years. This is a horrible tragedy.
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    Default Re: Limo crash kills 20 ppl

    I didn't know anyone, but yes, HORRIBLE, WHY was this company allowed to operate, use shit cars, & drivers!

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    Default Re: Limo crash kills 20 ppl

    Quote Originally Posted by whirlerz View Post
    I didn't know anyone, but yes, HORRIBLE, WHY was this company allowed to operate, use shit cars, & drivers!
    Unfortunately, so many things fall through the cracks. I heard the governor speak today about the accident. And he said he wants to get to the bottom of the whole thing. I hope he meant what he said about it.
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    Default Re: Limo crash kills 20 ppl

    Wow, this is horrible! :-/

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    Default Re: Limo crash kills 20 ppl

    Quote Originally Posted by whirlerz View Post
    I didn't know anyone, but yes, HORRIBLE, WHY was this company allowed to operate, use shit cars, & drivers!
    This is something I have to deal with regularly at my straight job, as my job functions include transporting horses as needed in vehicles ranging from an SUV with a two horse trailer up to a T800 semi tractor and 53’ horse trailer (yes, I am licensed and can drive those). I also work with our mechanics maintaining those vehicles, so they can focus on vehicles of the other business ventures of the guy I work for, and I’m certified to do annual FHWA inspections, and hold T3 and T4 ASE certifications. If you find this surprising, you should see me, because I absolutely do not look ‘the type’.

    Anyhow, there’s a few ways enforcement is done.

    The first is an audit of records. That’s when representatives of the Department of Transportation come to your facility, and they review records. During that time, they may also inspect vehicles - however, there’s a caveat. They can’t inspect any which are tagged as being out of service, so you can slap out of service tags on every vehicle in the yard, and they can’t touch them.

    Another issue here is what the definition of a Commercial Motor Vehicle is. Any commercial vehicle over 10,000 lbs. Gross Vehicle Weight Rating which is used in interstate commerce. That interstate use clause limits the authority the federal DOT has to carriers registered as interstate operators and carriers which use vehicles requiring a CDL - since those license classes are federally regulated, it gives the feds a back door to get to a company which operates such vehicles interstate only. The limo company was not likely to be a registered interstate carrier. The limo was most likely rated at less than 26,001 lbs. GVWR, which on weight precludes it from being required to have a CDL licensed driver operate it. However, where they broke the law on this was the number of passengers - any vehicle designed to transport or transporting more than 15 persons (including the driver) on a for-hire basis, regardless of the weight rating of the vehicle, requires a CDL class appropriate to the weight of the vehicle (Class C is 26,000 lbs. GVW or less, Class B if 26,001 lbs. or more, Class A if a Gross Combined Weight Rating of the power unit and a trail unit exceeds 26,000 lbs. AND the Gross Vehicle Weight Rating of the trail vehicle is 10,001 lbs. or more) and a passenger endorsement. The owner probably figured he could get away with it (which he did, for a while) since the federal DOT likely didn't ever audit that company, and if the state agency (probably the motor carrier enforcement division of the State Police) did, they probably only looked at service/maintenance records, vehicle registrations, etc. and not passenger manifests.

    Another method is roadside enforcement. The State Police/Highway Patrol often will pull over commercial vehicles (whether they fit the definition of a CMV by being used in an interstate operation or not) over for roadside safety inspections or else inspect them at scale houses and such. However, one thing you'll notice is that the signs often say something like "buses exempted", and limos tend to get a pass on this, as well. After all, if you spend an hour typing up a bus or limo with a Level 1 or 2 roadside inspection, and it causes passengers to miss their connections, or it ruins prom night for the kids of a wealthy family, they would probably expect lawsuits to quickly be forthcoming. So buses, limos, and other passenger carrying vehicles tend to get a pass on that.

    So, since I'm a horrible person, I'm putting the TLR version at the end of this, rather than the beginning: TLR, they weren't 'allowed' to, but companies such as that one have a whole lot of cracks they can slip through.

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    Default Re: Limo crash kills 20 ppl

    Regulations choke businesses and innovation for no reason!/s
    Now he said it a third time, and Ona drew a deep breath;

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    Default Re: Limo crash kills 20 ppl

    Quote Originally Posted by lynn2009 View Post
    Regulations choke businesses and innovation for no reason!/s
    I suppose I might disagree about requiring vehicles to be roadworthy and safe to operate being ‘for no reason’. I also feel like this accident will do much more to choke their business than any existing regulations on that business ever could.

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    Default Re: Limo crash kills 20 ppl

    All I was going to add to this is obviously operator error and an unsafe vehicle contributed to this accident, but the road apparently was prone to having accidents happen there too.
    Where I grew up they have a huge problem with excessive traffic causing fatal wrecks b/c autos bottleneck onto old/crowded highways, upping the chances of collisions.
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    Default Re: Limo crash kills 20 ppl

    Sure looks like the driver not only blew straight through a stop sign, but missed the fact that the intersection was a "T", and ran out of road. Tragic for all involved.

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